Design Anatomy

Design Anatomy Live @ Decor + Design: Ask Us Anything

• Bree Banfield and Lauren Li • Season 4 • Episode 1

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Bree & Lauren are back for Season 4 of Design Anatomy!

Kicking off this season, we start with an episode recorded in front of a live audience at Decor + Design Show Melbourne 2026 and we answer the questions people actually ask us, about renovating, hiring a designer, or trying to build a design business. From budgets and joinery to AI and Milan Design Week, we give practical answers and a few spicy opinions along the way.

• How to decide between an architect, interior designer, decorator, building designer or drafts person 
• What to look for when choosing a designer, beyond a matching aesthetic 
• Why listening and fit matter more than a perfect portfolio 
• Small budget upgrades that change the feel of a room 
• What $5,000 can do when you spend it on the right layer 
• When custom joinery is worth it and where to save instead 
• Pairing dining chairs with a vintage travertine table and bench 
• Design rules worth questioning, from ceilings to colour 
• Where AI helps and where it harms the designer client relationship 
• Controversial takes on dark rooms, white paint, boucle, and project photography 
• Favourite new products spotted at Milan Design Week 
• Quick-fire debates on bedside tables, curtains, lighting, plants, baths and more 
• The one skill to hone in a tech-heavy industry 
• The essentials for a sustainable, profitable design business

 If you enjoyed this one, subscribe, share it with a design mate, and leave us a review. 

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment. 

Bookings now open -  Book now

Lauren also offers design consultations, so if you're needing expert guidance & inspiration for your project, please reach out  @sisalla_interior_design

Would you love to be part of a small group of 8 designers joining Lauren & Bree on The Design Anatomy Tour of Paris & Milan Design Week in 2027?

Please reach out to us via DM @design.anatomy.podcast, or @sisalla_interior_design & @bree.banfield

Welcome, Tours, And A Cause

Speaker 3

Okay.

Speaker 1

We're gonna get started. We think there might be others straggling in from another um one that's finishing, but let's go. Hey everyone. Welcome. Uh we are recording live, so you will get to hear this if you want to listen to it all over again. Um and if you don't know us, we are Design Anatomy Podcast. I'm Bree Banfield.

Speaker 2

I'm Lauren Li Um, thank you guys for coming and turning up and front row cuties. This is us.

Speaker 1

Yes. In Milan, actually. We love that photo. Um, yeah, so welcome. We're basically been doing the podcast now for how long? Nearly two years. Yeah. It's just crazy. It's gone fast.

Speaker 2

We've spoken to some really cool people, very inspiring people.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we're very lucky and fortunate to be able to keep doing it and have people happy to come join us because sometimes we wonder whether people are going to turn up and listen.

Speaker 2

And it's always funny when someone says, Oh, that thing that you said on your podcast, and you're like, Oh my god, what did I say?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I well, you listen to it. I actually don't listen to it.

Speaker 2

It's gone, it's done.

Speaker 1

Um, but if you don't know about us, we're both interior designers. Um, I also do trend forecasting and styling, and Lauren runs amazing mentor courses. And then we also have our counterpart, Phil, which is Lauren's husband. Thank you, Phil, in the background editing and producing the podcast. We often forget to thank him. We never do. We never mentioned him. He's just there doing all the work, and so he's put everything together. And yeah, we also run tours. So we do Milan and Paris each year. It's an amazing tour of Paris that Lauren puts together. Lauren's written a whole book about Paris interiors, so she's a bit of an expert. And then we head over to Milan for a preview of Milan Design Week, and we're running that again next year, but the spaces are filling now, so if you are interested, do reach out to us. And we will be launching another tour for next year, which will be London and Copenhagen. So that will be super exciting. So look out for news on that.

Speaker 2

I've spoken to a few people at Daycoran Design about the tour, and I'm like, Are you sure you want to talk to me about this? Because once I get busy, shut up.

Speaker 1

Don't that's true. It's just uh Phil and Lauren had a date night, which is random. They have young children, and she just spent the whole night talking about Paris. Really, he's like, Do I ever hear about this all over again?

Speaker 2

It's a blow-by-blue. Then we ate this and then we went here.

Speaker 1

Exactly. Yeah, but we do we have an amazing time. So if you are interested in that, please reach out. We do want to mention our beautiful friend Jen, who is usually a fixture at Daycron Design and is missing um this year because she's unwell. Um, she is battling cancer, and the charity for the fair this year is Pancare in her honour. So please, um, we've got the QR code there if you want to know more about it or if you want to donate. And there are QR codes around the show too, if you want to find out more. So please do support that foundation in in Jen's honour. She's doing really well, but she's yep.

Speaker 2

She's going through. And I think we all know Jen and we do feel her professional. From interior at it. Yeah. Yeah. And she's such a joy. She's good. She's with you. Yeah, so we're thinking about Jen and hoping she's feeling good today.

Speaker 1

But yeah, so when we're gonna we we just thought we'd do this thing where we ask people, hey, are there any questions you want to ask us?

Speaker 2

Yes. And we had a few people writing their questions. So we're gonna keep it kind of loose.

Speaker 1

It is a little fair. And I'll and think about anything you might want to ask too. We'll ask you guys if you have

Architect Or Interior Designer Difference

Speaker 1

any questions. But in the meantime, this is just a whole heap of random stuff that people have asked us.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we had a question come through, which is something I feel like a lot of people do struggle to figure out. How do you work out who you need? An interior designer, an architect, or both? And what's the difference?

Speaker 1

Yeah, and this is also kind of relevant, especially if you're new to the industry, because I think there are like all these little kind of career paths you can take. Um, and people often don't know what all of those people do. So I don't know, you want to start with architect?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, I would also add to that an interior designer or architect, maybe it's a building designer, maybe it's an interior decorator. Draftsperson as well. That's more yeah. And I find for me in my projects of really good mixes an interior designer, that being me, and a drafts person or a building designer. Designer, yeah. Yeah. Um, but I mean it depends what you want to achieve. But I think that as an interior designer, we think about buildings from the inside out, right? So we are figuring out how our clients want to live and we're prioritizing those spaces that you live in, the things that you touch, that we how you interact in the space. Sometimes an architect might think about the outside in. So I think it's just a different approach, but I mean that's just so such broad brush strokes, right?

Speaker 1

And we were talking about architects and how they have a very good sense of place. They really think about the environment. And obviously we think about that too as designers, but we're very focused on the the inside and creating a mood for people. Whereas architects are thinking about the effect on the outside environment a little bit more.

Speaker 2

Yeah, like uh they'll do a really in-depth site analysis, and that's something I probably don't really do in my practice.

Speaker 1

No, we're probably like, where's the light coming from?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Is that tree staying? I don't know.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, we sort of obviously will design based on the context. No, if that's important, sometimes it just isn't though.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Um yeah, I mean, you do think about, I guess, you know, the suburb, if it's out in the country, what the borrowed landscape is, and those sorts of things. But yeah, we're doing it from inside the house more than outside.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. What I've found is that I love to learn about how people live, putting together that brief, figuring out those spaces, who's inhabiting those spaces. Like, you know, we ask so many questions, and so I'll kind of design the inside, and sometimes I will design the outside, but I don't pretend to be an expert on gutter systems. I could not care less.

Speaker 1

We I don't know what it was. I sort of approach it like this is how I want it to look.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

How do I make it look like that?

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And hopefully you can achieve it.

Speaker 2

And I've got a building designer that I've worked with, and he could probably talk about gutter systems all day long. I love that for him. Um, and different types of cladding. Oh, I might say exactly as you said, Bree, this is kind of what we want it to look like. I'm not across gut um cladding systems. Um, I think sometimes you have to really draw on your strengths, and I could spend a lot of time researching that, but that's not where my passion lies.

Speaker 1

So we sometimes get, oh, I sometimes get quite interested in those things. Yeah. But it's usually when, because the other thing that building designers and architects need to do is think about, you know, sustainability and how many stars and all of those things that have to be ticked, you know, boxes that have to be ticked in a building that we sort of maybe a part of, but aren't I well, I'm not an expert on, I know that.

Speaker 2

No, but I think we could always direct our clients to the experts. Yeah.

Speaker 1

So absolutely.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I think obviously it depends on the project. Yeah. If you're not moving walls, I think an in a decorator could also help you with project.

Speaker 2

Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And even sometimes little things decorate. It depends. I think decorate is such a broad term now. I feel like interior designer is definitely if you are making structural changes, often if there's kitchen, bathroom kind of bigger project, decorator might still dabble in a bit of that, but maybe doesn't have the extensive knowledge. I don't know. Yeah. I think that that's probably the biggest crossover, I think. Interior designer, decorator.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think for my projects, if you are within the footprint, let like I love to reconfigure the interiors. Yeah. And we're moving walls, we're relocating bathrooms or kitchens. We can turn the house upside down. Yeah. But I like to stay within the building envelope where we're pushing out. That is a little bit outside my expertise. I'm not a drafts person or a building designer.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Um and that's when it's great to so I've done this. I actually I've built a house from scratch before, which was from scratch. It's like I'm making donuts or something, um, which was a whole experience. But yeah, I just had a building designer and I basically did the floor plan and said this is how I want it to look. And then they just sort of helped actually work out how to put it together.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Haven't done that again. That was a lot.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So I hope that helped answer that person's question. Maybe an interior designer if you're staying within the building envelope, yeah, reconfiguring, figuring out how you live, an architect if you're pushing out. Yep. Don't know.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Or a combination of both. Yeah.

How To Choose The Right Designer

Speaker 1

Totally. Uh so this one was how do I choose a designer to work with? Do I choose one that already creates the style I want? It's a really good question. And I do think people tend to probably be drawn to particular designers because of the work they do. But then most designers, while they may have a little bit of aesthetic, can kind of like go into different styles, right?

Speaker 2

Depends what you want. I mean, if I was looking at hiring somebody to design for me, I would want somebody that can listen well. So I think that style is one thing, right? I I don't want to be someone that can fit into a box that has the same style that someone else wants. I have my own unique, well, I hope I have my own unique sort of like requirements on how I live and who is living in my home. So I probably, um, if I was approaching a bunch of designers, sure, the style, it's probably the first thing that will draw you to them. But are all their projects the same? Or are they individual depending on the client? And how much are you seeing is actually what is there? Because we know it's smoke and mirrors.

Speaker 1

Yeah, with those shoots.

Speaker 2

The styling, all the pieces that are bought in for a photo shoot at the end of the project, it's probably a lot of it's not even real, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. But I would just, you know, create a bit of a list of your top kind of like designers that you like and pick up the phone and talk to them. And are they listening? Are they talking about themselves? Are they talking about you?

Speaker 1

Are they like what is a red flag if they're just talking completely about themselves and not asking questions?

Speaker 2

I think it's pretty common. Like, I mean, I've I definitely know, like at the beginning of my career, I would go into this spiel about oh, I have a design process and the first step, and it's like the biggest yawn for a client because we're not up to that bit yet.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I think you want to listen. That initial conversation needs to be about them. I think I think so. Sure.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I want to hear about their project and they want to talk about it. So yeah.

Speaker 1

And I guess that um, like to flip that question, if you're in the industry, I think a lot of people ask, Do I need a niche or can I be broad? So I think it's a really tricky one because I think sometimes you can find a great niche and then you do that really well, and people find you because you have that. But then there are designers who just, you know, are really great at interpreting someone's brief and still coming up with like an amazing result. So I think the answer really is that you've got to um maybe use your gut first when you're looking for the designer and then narrow it down and then have conversations. And then I think you kind of know because it's like anything, it's a relationship. You're not gonna be talking to them for half an hour, you're gonna be maybe spending years with that person, depending on the project. So if you don't hit it off, yeah. And the same goes both ways. If you're a designer and you're talking to a potential client, if you don't feel anything in that initial conversation, they're not your people. And I think it's I I mean, we've probably both been there where we've taken on a project where you've sort of just been, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm a bit of a yes person, learning not to be, and then getting down the track and going, I didn't trust my gut, and it wasn't the right combination of people, and then ending up in a world of trouble at the end.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Sometimes you're like, I can see what you're trying to do with your project. I'm just not the right fit for you. And there's somebody else out there who is just frothing to work on that type of project, but I have to pass that on to the next person.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and then trust that the right person is coming to you, I think.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Um, I have to say I met up with a potential client last week, and as we were wrapping up the the chat, she was faffing around in her kitchen and was like, Oh, what's she doing? And she, as I was sort of walking out the door, she pants me a plate with some warm cake on it. I'm like, I think we're gonna work together well. I was like, that is so lovely. And she gave me a little gift bag for stuff for my kids because it was school holidays. Like, just so thoughtful.

Speaker 1

When you first tell me that story, I don't know if anyone's seen The Wedding Singer, it's one of my favorites. And you know, he's doing the singing lessons and she pays him in meatballs, but she does, she just tells him to put his hands out and cooks the meatballs in. And when you went, she handed me warm cake in my head. I'm like, you're just like there with this warm cake going, it was a bit like that, actually.

Speaker 2

But um, I think that's the thing. It's like, um, you know, how do I choose a designer to work with? Well, think about it's both ways, isn't it? We want to work together. So um if you're a client and you're trying to find a designer, what are your priorities? Um to me, some of the things that turn me off a little bit is a client that calls up and says, I know what I want. I want all of this, and I just need uh somebody to schlep around and make it happen. Like I'm I'm not your gal if that's what you're looking for. Um but there are other designers that are like, great, she knows what she wants, let's do it. I I don't know, but um it depends, I think as you said, how far you want to niche down. Yeah, yeah. So um yeah, if you're looking for a designer be think about how you could be a client that a designer would want to work for.

Speaker 1

But be honest, a great some of my best clients have come to me with these like really well-resolved briefs, and I'm like, oh, it's great, because they're actually they kind of know exactly what they want, but you can see that it they need a little, they can be pushed a bit further, and that project can be even better than like you know, their expectation is sort of like the first layer. Yeah. And then you can kind of go, well, yeah, this looks amazing. I love that you've got great ideas and that that can give you a bit of an insight into how they're thinking, but then you know how to push it, then you make it like an amazing project. Yeah. I totally get what you're saying, where it's like tick the box shopping list.

Speaker 2

That's it. Okay.

Spending $100 And $5,000 Wisely

Speaker 2

So the next question if you had $100 Bree to spend in a space, what would you buy?

Speaker 1

100 go very fast. Um yeah, what would make the most impact? I think possi uh I'm gonna say two things. Um, one would probably be books, looking at this image. Yeah. Like a great book, but still like you know, really impactful. You love what's inside it, but also the covers gorgeous. Like a coffee table book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and the second would be if you could get a lamp for under a hundred, and you know, like it could be a main, like there's a really cool new IKEA lamp that I love that from the PS range, yeah, which is really cute. That's under $100.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Um, and that makes such a big difference in a space. So I think that's a good investment.

Speaker 2

I agree. I bought one of the Ilse Crawford lamps from IKEA, and it is gorgeous. It looks expensive. I mean, that's not the name of the game, but the quality of it, it looks really more expensive. It was uh $70. Yeah. Yeah. And it's gorgeous.

Speaker 1

Good to look out for those um designer collaborations.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Um, but even if it's not, even it's just like, you know, buying a a lamp that you like and just adds a bit of, you know, the difference a lamp makes in a space, right? We're all about it. Um, and then if you had a if you had five thousand, this is the other end of it, what would you get?

Speaker 2

It's I guess for a hundred dollars, how much does a tin of paint?

Speaker 1

Oh, well. Would it be a hundred? Yeah, or it depends on how much you want to okay how much you want to paint, how much of it.

Speaker 2

We're talking about a ceiling white paint. Or maybe five thousand dollars. Maybe we could, you know, have our room painted with getting a painter in, like that would be impactful, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2

Under five thousand, I'd say, definitely. It'll be close. $200? I don't know.

Speaker 1

But you could DIY air task. Yeah. I think you've had a good air tasker. Okay, put in back.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. You never know what you're gonna get.

Speaker 1

Um, I'm a sucker for a good occasional chair.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Or table. I have way too many chairs. I just bought another one and my and it's sitting in the it's actually not on box. It's actually one of the new IKEA ones. Have you seen the green one that's got it's inflatable, so it's got this frame, and then you pump up the cushions and put it inside the frame. That's cool. I'll I'm gonna post it. I haven't unwrapped it because I'm like, I'll do some content. But um, so I look out for like those little kind of, I don't know, viral ones that you know, they're the ones in 10 years people are selling on marketplace because no one can get them kind of thing. But anyway, and it's in a great colour. But um when that got delivered, my oldest was sort of helping tidy up and he goes, So what's in this box? I went, a chair. And he goes, for a job. And I went, no. Where's it going? I don't know yet. What's this? A lamp? Do we need another lamp? Can't have too many lamps, right? Of course we need another lamp. So they think I'm insane.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I reckon, yeah, $5,000 is enough to buy a gorgeous armchair. Um at Decor and Designer curated a little collection of um pieces, and one of them is this gorgeous leather armchair. It's by a brand called Travato. Brand new brand, too, right? So brand new. So they only launched their website last week, I think, and it's 2700. Really great point. And it's it looks it's yeah, it's got a great book about it. Yeah. Um, they're by Cassie from CJH Studio, who I think is one of the most talented interior designers that perhaps flies under the radar a bit. She likes to fly under the radar. She does. We're like, come on the podcast, Cassie. She's like, it's okay. I'm like, I want to talk to you. I want to, I wanna know what's going on, don't you? Yeah. Um, I reckon I'd buy one of those and you could buy yourself a couple of cute side tables and a lamp, and your whole world would be changed.

Speaker 1

Or if it was your bedroom, great bed linen.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. LM uh LM home. I'd go straight there. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Like Weave, cultivar, yeah, and co.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

All good.

Speaker 2

All of it. Okay.

Is Custom Joinery Worth It

Speaker 2

Next question that we had. Is custom joinery worth the money?

Speaker 1

It's sort of shocking me. Um pricing a project at the moment. And I sort of have an idea about things, but I feel like in the last few years it has gotten even more expensive to the point where I actually had sticker shock on one of the things that was quoted. And I don't usually get that. But I was still like, okay, it's yeah, it's a little bit more than I was thinking. I think it was because we'd priced it in, say, laminate, and then we were like, no, we definitely want um, well, the joiner did. So I think he was value managing before. Um, and then when we saw what the price was of what we'd actually spec'd, which was uh um timber, it was nearly not quite double. And so the client was like, oh crap, but they really want timber, so they'll they'll have they're gonna go there. Okay. But it was just, I think, because they'd seen the lower price first, but that didn't help. In the reverse. But custom joinery can change a room from feeling like a box with some furniture in it to something that's fully resolved and purposeful for its, you know, for what it's used for. Like it can be such a great feature. I my answer is I think it's always worth the money if you've got it.

Speaker 2

And you're making the most of every little inch of that space. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1

So it's it's made for the space.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you know, I think it's good to remember, as you say, like custom joinery. That is something that is made, designed just for you. They can't go and resell that. It's a one-off thing. It's made by women and fans in Australia. It's going to cost uh a bit of money. Yeah. But, you know, you can always um buy a couple of console tables, like our friend John O'Flemmy went to his studio in Sydney. He bought a couple of really gorgeous console tables, just buttered them up together, and it looks like a custom piece of joiner. So there are kind of clever things you can do.

Speaker 1

And even um I feel like I'm sprooking hike here today. Um, but so we've got um On this same project where we're investing quite a bit in custom joinery, we're also using IKEA flat pack upstairs in what's going to be kind of like this sort of loft playroom area. Um, where, you know, when you put that on mass and we are actually going to paint it, there's um, I think it's an eye-bar system that's kind of like a pine. I love that. So when you paint it, you still get a bit of a timber look through it. Nice. So, you know, there's that option um where you can find things that maybe aren't bespoke but make them look bespoke. Change the handles.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Um, maybe paint it if it's not, you know, already kind of a laminated finish.

Speaker 2

So I think the answer is is custom joinery worth the money? Yes, but you don't have to do it everywhere, right?

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's a good point. Yes. So we

Chairs For Travertine And Bench

Speaker 1

actually got this actual one, right?

Speaker 2

Yeah. So this one is a photo of a dining table and some chairs around it, sort of up against like a church, purely.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so there's like an I I would say that's like a vintage um church bench with a high back. What sort of timber? Not take. What would have been what sort of timber would it be?

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, it has a patina to it. And the question is, I can't work out what dining chairs to pair with my vintage travertine table and my dining bench. This is a transition room slash home. It will be fully renovated one day. So we're we're we're helping one person here. We did say bring, you know, send in your questions.

Speaker 1

So and that so the travertine table is um pretty classic vintage travertine, so it's got kind of the solid block base and it's not quite rectangular, it's a bit irregular. It's a little paper to it's really gorgeous. And she currently has, I'm gonna say she, they currently have um, I guess like red tan, um, with the black frame, which are fine, but they're not not it's not all working together.

Speaker 2

I feel like that black frame, the chairs that she has, it's too strong. Yes, has a team.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we thought I think with a lot of lines, like when you've got a bench, which is like it's a little bit softened, and then you've got the straight lines of the travertine that maybe needs some upholstery. So a fully upholstered chair.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Um, and that one was one we saw in Milan from Caligaras that we've got on the screen there. So it's got like a beautiful little curved back that kind of like it's comfy, like you know, you can just sit into it. Um, but fully upholstered legs and seat as well. And then that just kind of softens that space, I think. I think that's a beautiful choice.

Which Design Rules To Break

Speaker 1

What rules do you think you should break in design? All the rules.

Speaker 2

Gonna know what they are first, though, right? So I don't know. I feel like maybe one of the rules you could break is I think we talk about style so much. Style. What style do you like? Style and styles on Pinterest. Maybe think about how you live, what's practical. It's not uh always a good idea to copy and paste a style into a home that doesn't match, it could be jarring, and it's just uh it doesn't say anything about you if you're just copying a style style.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's actually a really good point because I think when you copy a style, it's no longer your home, it's just a Pinterest home, right? 100%. So you can love a style, like you know, we love all styles Camstons or whatever it is, yeah, but don't get like don't make it a rule, like still add other things that you love and make that style your own.

Speaker 2

I like that.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Um, but yeah, I'm all for breaking most of the rules.

Speaker 2

Like what?

Speaker 1

Yeah. Uh I don't know. Um, like colour combinations is a really good one. People kind of get a bit, oh no, or where you should oh no, we don't do paint, like we can't do a colour on the ceiling. I remember, so like, you know, the classic thing is like if you had a coloured wall, you'd still have white trims and a white ceiling and white doors. Oh yeah and that just pushing through that era was quite difficult. Really people would like, oh but but you don't do that, you've got to paint those white, right? I'm like, why?

Speaker 2

That's so true.

Speaker 1

It's always good to ask why, because it's like any rules that are there, sometimes they're for a good reason. And when you kind of break it down, you go, yeah, okay, no, it still works to kind of follow that general rule. Like sometimes things really do look good in threes, for instance, on the eye. Um, and I guess the rules are there to kind of give you some guidelines to help you. But when you can see that something's going to look amazing without the rule, it's always good to question like, why? Why does it need to be that way? And would it look better if it was this way? Love that.

AI In Interior Design Reality Check

Speaker 2

What else have we got? Oh, this is interesting. Somebody asked, is there a role for AI in interior design?

Speaker 1

This is a big one. I feel like we're probably we have done a whole podcast kind of about this. Yeah, and we spoke to Tom.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And things have changed. Yeah, Tom Black. Yeah, there hasn't changed so much actually since then. So I think it's become a lot more accessible. I think people are most people are probably using in some way every day, even without knowing half the time. I think. Now, if you just Google something, it's unless you turn that off, it's going to give you AI prompts. Um I'm I actually really love technology, and I think there is a place for AI and for interior designers to use it to help them in their business. Maybe for consumers to use it to help tell the designer what they want. But I have also heard a couple of stories recently where I was talking to some designers and they're now getting their clients sending back their work with changes. So they're, yeah, exactly. I I did sort of the same thing and they went, is that rude? I went, yes, it's very rude. So, you know, you've sent them a beautiful render and then they're running it through AI and telling AI change this, this, and this, and then sending it back to you saying, Can you make it like this? And that's where you go, no, that's not okay. So it might be something we need to be putting in our T's and C's. But um, so I think it's okay to I guess play with it. But um, yeah, I don't know. I for me, AI for interior designers, I think there's great things we can do to make us more efficient. Um, and then we can work on the creativity side of the projects rather than maybe the admin. But that takes time as well. And AI, we think it's got, I mean, it's moving very, very fast, but I think it's got a long way to go before like we still have to train it and teach it. And you actually still have to understand what to tell it and how to use it. Otherwise, it can really waste your time.

Speaker 2

I'm curious, can you put your hand up if you do use AI, like just in everyday life and stuff? That's more than half. Okay. I just feel like you have to start using it because as you said, I've actually had a client brief, like an email. Somebody reached out and said, I'm renovating and I'm looking for like this industrial sort of style and this and that. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I got on the phone. I was like, oh, so you were asking for like an industrial style, like were you thinking of concrete? Or oh, they said, Oh, no, actually, like they don't actually know what they're asking. And he was like, Oh, I actually did use AI to write that. I'm like, it was absolutely pointless, and you don't actually know what you're saying, what what I'm interpreting that as a as a style, I guess, this industrial style. I just was so confused. It was just uh meaningless stuff. So people are using it. Maybe they don't know how that's just one way. I've also had clients show me AI images, and I'm like, oh, they're like, I've Googled uh reverse image searched this sofa and I can't find it. I'm like, oh, but that's AI, that image. They don't know. So you've kind of got to be able to know what it is that they're showing you. Um, and I I do think that there are gonna be jobs. There are already jobs that AI is replacing. I've lost a project, a styling job. Scary. So, especially when it comes to renders, I have to say. Like I use SketchUp to create my 3D renders for clients, and I render them now using Chat GPT. It's just got so much better and they look really wonderful. So maybe some of the renderers maybe aren't as in demand as what they were. Um, but I mean, sap clients are savvy, they're they're using AI, they are not, they're not asleep on it, so we need to be on top of it. So I used to say when it sort of first came out, oh, AI doesn't have good taste, so that's great because we can direct our clients, which is true to a certain extent. But if a client says, I really like the style of, okay, this is gonna sound really bad, but really like the style of Bree Banfield. They could upload their living room and say, can you design this space in the style of Bree Banfield? And can you please create a furniture schedule with a list of the pieces I can purchase within the Melbourne region? Like clients are savvy to it. We have to know what clients are doing because they're already doing it. If we're doing it, then they are definitely doing it. So um I think the thing that you can't do, that AI can never do, is sit down for a coffee with your client, eat the warm cake, and have that beautiful relationship and listen. And I mean, I've got clients that half the time we catch up, we talk about everything but their project. We talk about their kids, we talk about parenting, we talk about politics, books we've read. You know what it's like. You talk to all about all different things with your clients. That's the experience that I'm trying to sell in my business for clients, that it's a really enjoyable experience to work with a designer and go for your life and AI, all the images that you want, they're just images. You've also got to make that happen. Yeah. Um, so um, there are going to be people that are going to go straight to AI, but maybe they weren't really our clients anyway, because they've already got their Pinterest boards. Maybe they're just generating more and more and more images and get more confused. Right.

Speaker 1

I think that the other thing that um that humans can do that AI isn't doing yet is AI is only telling you what already exists and borrowing from everyone else's ideas. Um, so they aren't good at curating that for a start. So they're just gonna pull together a whole heap of stuff. And again, like you said, like it doesn't have taste. Can't. Um, so maybe it can mimic a style, um, but it can't push a boundary into something else that doesn't exist yet, which is what we're always trying to do, right? Like we're always reinterpreting something or pulling together something that maybe someone hadn't thought about putting together before. So you won't get that uniqueness from AI. Um, and the other thing that I would say is I think watch the space. It's AI is actually not making a lot of money. They're losing money fast because it's kind of free at the moment. Like people can just jump onto Chat GPT and do stuff if you're not paying for the subscription. That's gonna dry up and it's gonna start being that um, you know, everybody's sort of starting to rely on it, and now they're gonna get charged a lot more for it. So I think it's going to be an interesting space to watch in terms of that because capitalism, right? Nothing's really free.

Speaker 2

And then they're gonna start charging us for it.

Speaker 1

So but if you're smart with it as a as a designer, I think you know, spend a little bit of time working out what it is good for because I actually think you can also, I've wasted time before trying thinking oh, I'm gonna be really smart and do something really quickly, and then it's like it doesn't do it, and I'm like, oh no, that's not how I want it. And then I realized I could have done it by now.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So it's not always, it's

Controversial Takes And Project Photography

Speaker 1

not always a time saver.

Speaker 2

True. Okay, Bree. What is your most controversial design opinion?

Speaker 1

I don't even know, actually. I should have really thought about this a little bit more. Uh uh, okay, this is a good one. Let's talk about colour. Um, painting rooms that don't have a lot of light white, thinking that's somehow going to um bring in a lot of light. It's a total farce. If you have a room that doesn't have a lot of light and um you want to make it feel lighter, you will need to add light to it. If you paint it white, the existing light might bounce around slightly more, but also all you're doing is just having a grey room because you're just gonna have a whole heap of shadow and not a lot of light to give life to the white. So you're much, much better off painting it a colour. It doesn't even have to be a moody colour, although I would say if your room is moody and doesn't have a light, embrace it and add some depth and make it more interesting and give it more character. But even like a great pastel, it has to have a little bit of character and strength to hold itself in a room without light, because otherwise you've just got a grey room. Very sad, sad gray room.

Speaker 2

Yes, very sad. I think one of my most controversial design opinions is that I like white boot clay. I think that white boot clay is gorgeous, it's like slubby, it's like the really nice, like Pierre Free ones that are just like mohair, like alpaca, like divine and beautiful, and I stand by that.

Speaker 1

I I love boucle. I don't know how much I love white boucle specifically, but I think boucle's always been a beautiful texture. Yeah, they're not created equal. They are not created equal, no.

Speaker 2

Um, I also have another controversial design opinion that I am not shooting my projects anymore. Uh you have says this. I have shot so many of my projects and I don't regret it, but I think I had a uh photo shoot four years ago. That was the last time I shot a project, and I don't think that I have really got a lot of business from shooting my own projects. I think that yapping away on Instagram is the way forward to get. I have never had so many inquiries from pivoting a little bit. Um, and shooting projects for a designer is expensive, it benefits publishers. We don't get paid to submit our images, but we have to pay the photographer, the stylist, the trailer, the this and that, and I'm over it.

Speaker 1

The award submissions my little compartible, but that's just I I to be honest, like so because I've done a lot of photographic styling, I have a lot of, I guess, images in my portfolio of that worth because that's literally what it is. Um, but there's l so many projects I haven't shot, mostly because I've moved on to the next thing and I haven't had time to go back and shoot it. And you sort of need to get onto it really quickly. Almost I would recommend if you are going to shoot a project, it's part of the project plan. You don't sort of go, oh, now that's finished. Oh yeah, maybe we should shoot it. You have it locked in, you know, the date, a few months out, the client knows it's happening, you're thinking about, you know, what shots you need and how you're gonna use it. Don't just blindly spend the because it is expensive. If you want to shoot it well, you need a great photographer. Sometimes you also need a stylist. And I would recommend if you definitely aren't sure about that, find a great stylist because they'll art direct the images as well and make sure they're like work really well with that photographer and you'll get the most out of it. But it is, it's also what you said before, it is smoke and mirrors. Like I know when I've got a project, sometimes that project is amazing in real life. You walk into that room and you know how it all works. And then if you're trying to capture it to tell the story of how you designed it, you it sort of doesn't translate. You can maybe get some great shots, but like you might have moved a chair that's actually here for this reason in this corner because they all sit there and it works so well for the family, whatever. You've moved it into another corner with another side table and a vase just to make it look beautiful. And then that's the thing that gets published or yeah. So um, yeah, I guess have a reason why. Do you want to win awards? Think about like have a look at what the great photos look like because um bad photos can also lose your wards. You could have an amazing project that's so beautiful and shot badly or styled badly, and it will get nowhere.

Speaker 2

But also, I mean, I've yeah, as I said, shot a lot of my projects and it is so awesome to be published, but it's changing, right? Like I actually even had courses on how to get your work published, and I do believe in that it does it's valuable because it it's a prestige thing. But it also is it impressing other designers or I think it's become more about peers.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. And um I don't know. I think as as it gets harder to just live life with um the amount of money you have, the amount of money people are spending on magazines is probably less, unfortunately, because I'm I am I love magazines. It's like a big part of my life and has been since I was like before I was even a designer. Yeah. So it's sad to see it changing, but it is changing.

Speaker 2

It's changing, but also you've got the design files magazines, and you've got more these niche magazines that are beautiful. So things are just changing, right? Okay, what other questions do

Best New Milan Design Finds

Speaker 2

we have?

Speaker 1

Best new product we saw in Milan.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Well, the one that's on the screen has a very old.

Speaker 2

The question was what was the best new product you saw in Milan? And this was a kitchen that I saw, and we went to Salone, which is a huge, big, you know, it's like this exhibition building, but just times by 100. It's huge. And you're seeing a lot, you're seeing a lot. And it was the last day of the tour. I walked past this kitchen and it literally stopped me in my tracks. It's a stainless steel kitchen by a brand called Abimus, and it's got these curved profiles of the cupboard fronts of a stainless steel kitchen. So it's kind of that commercial kitchen meat, something a bit softer. And I I thought that was kind of quite special.

Speaker 1

It was. I think everyone was quite taken with this brand. And even just you can see here, when it's paired back with the timber behind and that little timber detail, it was it just I think it was different, it was done differently. It was. And um, the combinations, and there was, we don't have a photo of it, but there was this amazing cabinet with a stone front to it, which just had so much presence.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Um, yeah, it was a it was a really good find that brand. And then Muto launched a new sofa by Studio Pepe. Um, and we think this will be a big winner because Muto will have a great price point. It looks so so we've seen it in a few iterations. It's modular. So here's the curved in the beautiful bubblegum pink, but we've also seen it as sort of the chaise lounge in um like theatre rooms. Yeah. In a whole, you know, in a, I think that was like in a beige or a torp colour.

Speaker 2

Almost like a metre and a half top. Yeah, yeah. Like you really lounge on it.

Speaker 1

Like lounge.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And it takes on a whole new vibe, doesn't it?

Speaker 2

And then we saw it in a cream colour in the Studio Pepe Studio, and it looked really sophisticated. So we predict we'll be seeing this. It's released in September this year, so it'll be a little while until we see it coming through. But you can get that through Living Edge. Yes. Or in good company.

Quick Fire Design Debates With Crowd

Speaker 2

So excited for that. So we got a few quick fire questions.

Speaker 1

So what we thought, yeah, we do. So we thought what we might could be fun. Um, is we're gonna ask you either or and you'll put your hand up for each one. So the first one is um bedside tables matching or eclectic and mismatch. So who's for matching? Oh, that's nearly half. And who's for eclectic? I reckon that's about to be.

Speaker 2

How do we say matching, maybe, probably more?

Speaker 1

Closer, okay. Yeah, it's a hard one to pull off the mismatch, I think, with bedside tables. I'm usually a mismatch, but I as I said, I think it's a really hard one to pull off. I think it's also maybe a hard one to sell to clients.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I've had mismatch lots of times. I think if they're not, um, I think they need to be side tables.

Speaker 2

Yeah, this one here is a table by Gooby, I think. And it is a side table that we use for a bedside table.

Speaker 1

It looks great. I like how it's actually elongated.

Speaker 2

Did I tell you it was a photo shoot?

Speaker 1

Yeah, and you just put it there for that.

Speaker 2

Yeah. The client didn't actually go with that. Okay, Bree. Curtains, should they pull on the floor? Put your hand up if you think they should just pull on the floor a little bit.

Speaker 1

Ooh, not many.

Speaker 2

Yeah, or should they just touch the floor? Most people are touching the floor.

Speaker 1

I'm a pool person. I love a pulling of it.

Speaker 2

I like it when they kiss the floor. That's how my window furnishings are.

Speaker 1

I mean, it does depend on the project, I will say, and the practicality of it and the fabric. Because I've done it before. I'm like, no, it needs to pull and it's too stiff. And so instead of an elegant pull, it just sort of creases, sort of just bends. It doesn't work on carpet, it has to be.

Speaker 2

A floorboard or a you know so I think definitely most people said just just touching the floor for that one.

Speaker 1

Kissing.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

Marble or timber? So who's marble? Oh, only a few timber? Oh wow, overwhelming majority for timber. I'm a marble girl.

Speaker 2

Because you love Milan and you see a lot of timber. You see a lot of stone there, right?

Speaker 1

My favourite.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I mean one of those is my project, which is the marble table. It's sort of sort of like an island bench. And then that's my house. Timbus saying it, that's my house. What do you prefer? A bath or a double shower? So bath, put your hand up if you're all for a bath. A double shower?

Speaker 1

Oh, that's 50-50. Yeah, I reckon that was 50-50. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Personal preference.

Speaker 1

I love the idea of a bath. I love if you have an amazing, like I love this bath, like a coloured one or a sculptural one as a feature. But I'm terrible at actually taking the time to have a bath, so I'd go for a double shower.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think um the top of bath was in our hotel in Paris. Oh yeah. Where you you were out and I got my grab bag of me? I was out. Had my book and it was heaven. But for every day, I reckon in double shower.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I've I I've lived in houses with baths and I can't even remember the last time I had one.

Speaker 2

Yeah. We think we're that person, but we're not.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's a nice idea.

Speaker 2

White walls or colour? So hand up for white walls. Okay, colour. Okay, we got that colour girl from that house.

Speaker 1

That was the majority rules colour. That was exciting. I was expecting that to be a little bit more divided.

Speaker 2

What would you choose?

Speaker 1

I don't know. It's a really hard choice.

Speaker 2

Okay. Put your hands up if you I love down lights. We've got one. I think just because you wanted to be controversial, right? Not in the design world. Or ambient light. Okay. We're 99% ambient light, I think, on that one.

Speaker 1

And I think if you've ever listened to anything Lauren and I talk about, you'd know we're both ambient light.

Speaker 2

We are, yes. Okay, um pattern or plain? Who loves pattern? Bit of pattern on the wall? Who's plain?

Speaker 1

Well I reckon that was a 50-50 too. Yeah. I've I mean I love a bit of both, but I love pattern.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

I mean, if you can pull off some wallpaper that's in a man, I am also wearing a very patterned suit right now.

Speaker 2

Head to toe. Or that that example is a project that's a Pierre Fray wallpaper. Sorry about wallpaper. I see. You know, we can't convince the client all the walls. Let's just do up to date oh height, and we bring in a really cool vibe in there.

Speaker 1

Ooh, indoor plants. Yes. Who's for yes? Or no? Or I think yes one.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yes one.

Speaker 1

There was a couple of noise. Is it just because you could think you're gonna kill them? Yeah. I understand. Unfortunately, I have had some deaths in my home. But I do love plants. I've learnt which ones not to buy. You know, I've bought them like more than once and killed them more than once and gone, I won't buy that again.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I say sorry to the plants before I buy them. You're coming to me. Sorry in advance. Your life is now limited. Well, that was super fun. Does anybody in the audience have any questions?

Speaker 1

Yay, we love it.

One Skill To Hone Now

Speaker

Hello, ladies. Um, my question is um in the world that we live in, you we talked about AI, um, and you know, it's very digital and everything. What would you say is the one skill to really hone as a designer? Whether, you know, it could be, I don't know, collaboration with other designers or anything that strikes for you.

Speaker 2

What a great question. It is a really great question. Would be the one skill that you would hone in this day of AI and technology, right?

Speaker 1

I think the first one's probably what you already said, which is people skills.

Speaker 2

People skills, yeah. Be a be somebody that a client can really, you know, you can solve their problems. You can show them that you understand where they're getting stuck, where what where their problems are, and you're their go-to person. I don't know. I feel like at the end of the day, people want to have maybe a showcase house or whatever, but you still they still want to live in their home and they still yeah, have have needs of storage, of school bags, of shoes, of laundry, all the mundane stuff.

Speaker 1

Like be a person that can uh relate to that client and what their needs are.

Speaker 2

I think so.

Speaker 1

And it kind of goes even further than that. I would say in relationships with suppliers and your contractors and your trades, you need to have really good relationships because that's when you can deliver great projects. Rely on your suppliers to give you great information. And when you've got them standing by you, or you know you can pick up the phone and say, Oh my god, this has happened. Can you help me? They're gonna be there for you. And then I would also lean into learning as much as you can about AI.

Speaker 2

And I think, you know, you make such a good point, Bree, because you know, with AI and generating images, it's fantastic. Generate all the images, but you can't live in a picture. So if you can talk to your trades, talk to your builders, communicate, then we we're getting somewhere. I don't know.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think you know, we know that design is more about pretty pictures, it's actually about how people live or work or use a space.

Speaker 2

And no one loves a pretty picture more than us. That's very true. That's a bit more than that. Thank you for that great thing.

Building A Sustainable Design Business

Speaker 4

If you were both starting out in your design businesses today, what would be the one to three things that you would recommend for a designer to build a sustainable, profitable business?

Speaker 1

Uh so the question was: if we were starting out today, what are the one to three things we would do to make sure we have a profitable, sustainable business? And my absolute number one non-negotiable is learn business. You go to school and you learn design, and I don't think I got taught anything about running a business. And I obviously learnt things along the way working for other people. That would be my second one, actually, because I think a lot of people think they can come straight out of school and start their own business. It's a great idea. Go and learn from people, even if it's for two or three years, invest, find um, I guess, a firm or a small, big whatever that you relate to and that you respect and learn as much as you can if your intention is to start out on your own. But oh my God, finances setting up your business from the start properly, um, how it runs, all the unsexy stuff that I bloody hate.

Speaker 2

Yeah, don't ask us about all of that.

Speaker 1

But if you've got that from the beginning and get help, go like, you know, just go, okay, I'm gonna start a business, find someone to tell you how to do it well if you don't know, or work it out. And if you can set yourself up well from the start, um, if you don't, then there's a really good chance along the way you will it it will all fall apart. Um, and I guess the third would probably be working at how you're gonna sustain um work coming in and maybe have more than one idea about what that is. I think multiple streams of income is a good idea in this industry. Yep.

Speaker 2

Um, I love that you're here at Daycore and Design because it means that you're connecting to a community. Um, when I was setting up, I've got a stand here. When I was setting up, um somebody introduced me to Louis, who is a graduate. She's just graduated from RM from RMIT. She contacted Daycore and Design and said, I want to be here volunteering if anybody needs any help. So I've just made this friend. We're unpacking boxes together. So I've I guess my point in that is take the initiative and push, push, push, because no one's gonna magically open up a door for you. Um, but I mean, I guess I just echo what Bree said and you know, get an accountant like so boring. You don't want to hear that, right? But you don't you can't last in business doing what you love to do if you don't have a way to figure out how to make money, how to pay to have. And too, right? It's so boring. Still don't have it. It's just so annoyingly necessary. Um, otherwise, you just cut it's a hobby, and that's fine as well if you want to make it a hobby. But if for me, it's my career, it's my yeah.

Speaker 1

If you need to pay the bills, you actually it like a business.

Speaker 2

And yeah, multiple income streams. So what is your offer? Is it full service? Are you at flat rate? Are you hourly? Are you doing consultations? And are there different sectors that you want to serve? So is it residential, is it commercial, is it retail, is it hospitality? Like maybe have a few fingers in a few different pies. Um, and for me, that's been doing a bit of mentoring. And I I love being able to help other designers. It's doing webinars and you know, getting a community together. It's really nice. Community things are simple. I don't know if we're making any money from those yep, maybe one day. Um, but yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 1

So um, yeah, I I don't I think it's not one thing that you know, also we said all of that, you're never gonna know everything from the beginning. Be open to learning more and um, you know, spending time in the community to learn more, but and know that you're gonna make mistakes.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, not everything's gonna be a roller coaster. So I hope you like going up and down and sometimes screaming.

Speaker 1

There's a lot of that.

Final Thanks And Goodbye

Speaker 2

Do we have any other questions? Well, this was super fun. Thank you guys so much for being here and um yeah, it was fun. It was fun. Enjoy the rest of your daycore and design. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 1

See you later.