In Conversation with Anna-Carin: The Music Behind Great Design

A lot of interiors look “right” and still feel wrong. We’re chasing something harder to name: the feeling of a home that actually belongs to you. That’s why we loved this chat with designer Anna-Carin, who has built a client briefing process around an unexpected tool: music.

We talk through her signature question: if your project had a theme song, what would it be? From there, she layers in a project name and three feeling words to create a brief that’s clear, emotional, and genuinely personal. We unpack how rhythm can hint at a client’s quirks, how a “raw” track can give you permission to propose bolder ideas, and why starting with mood helps you avoid the copy-and-paste trap of image-led design. If you’re an interior designer wanting a stronger client connection, or a homeowner stuck between “nice” and “mine”, this approach is pure gold.

The conversation goes wider too: Scandinavian rituals, seasonal living, and what happens when a culture loses the small traditions that anchor us to time, place, and each other. Anna-Carin also shares her career story, the mentor who taught her the power of five millimetres, and why commitment to the person behind the project is what turns a house into a home.

Check out Anna-Carin on her socials below:

Instagram: @annacarindesign

Web: www.annacarindesign.com.au

If you enjoyed this one, subscribe, share it with a design mate, and leave us a review. What would your home’s theme song be?

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment. 

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Join Lauren for The Conversation Circle beginning Monday 15th June.

This fortnightly small-group mentoring program is designed for interior designers, decorators and stylists who are ready to fast-track their business growth, gain clarity, and have the support and accountability to take action.

To ensure everyone receives personalised guidance and mentoring, the group is intentionally limited to just 6 designers. This creates space for meaningful conversations, individual feedback, and practical support tailored to your business.

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Transcript

Welcome And Milan Review Invite

Speaker 0:01

Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Lauren Li.

Speaker 1 0:08

And me, Bree Banfield, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.

Speaker 0:16

With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and lived-in spaces. We're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you. And today we're super excited to be talking to Anna -Carin. So really um nice to get to know you a little bit more in this chat, Anna -Carin. But before we get started, I just wanted to remind you that we have our Milan in Review events coming up. We're so pumped.

Speaker 1 0:44

We are, we are. So I think when this hits your ears, we'll have already done our Melbourne event. And we'll now have Sydney coming up on the 24th. So if you haven't already got tickets and you're in Sydney and you would love to join, please um go have a look at the link in wherever it is in the show notes and in our Instagram, or you know, shoot us a DM if you need details, but we'd love to see you there.

Speaker 1:13

It's just a super inspiring night, just with a group of interior designers and design enthusiasts, and it's just fun. So fun. It's fun, yeah, and so and super informative, right?

Speaker 1 1:24

Yeah. All the things you need to know from Milan if you weren't there, or even if you were, it's a great recap. So fun. So welcome, Anna -Carin.

Speaker 1:35

Thank you. Thank you. Now I think I met you, it was a few years ago, and I was uh moderating a panel discussion, and you were so fabulous, you were so articulate, you made some really beautiful points. I can't actually remember what it was about. What were we talking about?

Speaker 2 1:52

I was trying to remember what did we talk about?

Speaker 1:54

I don't know. It was something really interesting at the time, obviously. But yeah, so I'm sure this is going to be a really lovely chat. And I've been was it about sustainability, maybe I think it was something about building sustainability, and you had a really fantastic builder come on the panel as well. Yes. That you um worked together with an warehouse conversion, and he was really knowledgeable. And yeah, it's just that spirit of generosity. I love that sharing in a discussion

Builders And Designers As One Team

Speaker 2:20

like that. It's really it's really great to hear different points of view.

Speaker 3 2:22

Yeah, no, it's true. I actually just had a meeting before today, this morning with a builder that we were interviewing for a project, and I kind of said to him, There's just one thing that I need to know from you before we even start the discussion, is that you and I have each other's back because we are here for one reason only, and it's to deliver an exceptional project to the people who pay our six our clients. So don't try and blame me, and I will not blame you. If you do something wrong, take responsibility. If I do something wrong, I will take responsibility and I will pay for it. I'm not trying to pass bucks onto anyone else because I think there's nothing worse than working with trades who always try and, oh, mate, not my fault, you know, instead of finding a solution. Absolutely.

Speaker 3:02

And sometimes like choose your battle, battles a bit, you know. I I've seen a mistake the builders made. What am I going to do? Am I going to jump up and down and scream about it in front of the client and make him look stupid? No. I'm going to say, just one moment, let's go to the side. Now I've noticed this. How can we fix it together? Yeah. You know, we're all, as you said, I loved what you said. You have both been employed by the client to create an exceptional outcome. We all want to strive for that outcome and we're not against each other.

Speaker 3 3:33

No, exactly. We're a team. We're working together to deliver something better than that.

Speaker 1 3:38

Well, and I feel like it's something that happens all the time, isn't it? I I've had that experience. If you don't have that conversation, or maybe you get brought into a project where you haven't, I guess, had the opportunity to select the builder. And they sort of see you as the enemy. It's such a bizarre situation. Yeah.

Speaker 3 3:54

And I think particularly as interior designer, if there's an architect as well involved, our role can be so fragile somehow because it takes a lot to kind of establish that respect that I think our profession, you know, has and can deliver on. But not everyone, some people understand it and not everyone. So I think we kind of we have to work a little bit harder to gain that respect and acknowledgement of what it is that we bring to a project.

Speaker 4:20

You're so right. Yeah, agree. And sometimes I feel frustrated. I'm like, I didn't call the client and say, Can I work on your project? They contacted me. I'm here too, as equally as important to bring together. I've got my role.

Speaker 1 4:35

From that point of view, that's actually a really good way to put it.

Speaker 4:38

Well, it's kind of like they feel like they're it's anyway, it's a it's a really tricky one. And it is, I think it is, as you say, and a careen, it is harder for us to kind of earn that respect. We are constantly having to try to prove ourselves and sort of never make a mistake. Um yeah, it's really true too, right?

Speaker 1 4:58

When we make a mistake, it's such a big deal, and it can be obviously in terms of impact on whatever's going on, but like we're in the human.

Speaker 3 5:06

Exactly. We all make mistakes, and that's it. Inevitably, if it's a project, any size, big or small, we're all going to make some absolutely something's gonna go wrong. Or something, we're gonna miss something, or something has fallen off the drawing when it was in a different layer and you have and then all of a sudden it's not showing up.

Speaker 2 5:24

No, I know I did draw it, but I know. Anyway, back to music.

The Theme Song Briefing Method

Speaker 2 5:29

Let's talk about music.

Speaker 5:31

Uh before we get started, Brie, how do you know Anna -Carin?

Speaker 1 5:35

Oh, well, we were just trying to establish that, weren't we? Neither of us can properly remember how, but we think it was a Dulux event and that we were in the vicinity. In the same table.

Speaker 3 5:45

I think we're at the same table. That's what I remember, but you know, my memory. I'm quite good to remember faces, but I can't remember when I'm gonna do it. Exactly. I'm exactly the same. You know what?

Speaker 5:54

I can't remember faces. I actually realize I can't remember faces, and somebody will come up to me and I'm like, oh my gosh, have I met it's really bad. I think I need to get some.

Speaker 2 6:04

I don't know. I usually know. Well, we have a different part of our brains working, maybe.

Speaker 1 6:09

Yeah, and then there's also adding the social media factor. So because I do remember faces, I'll sometimes think I've met someone, and it's just someone that I follow on Instagram. And I've never met them. And I've often said, Oh, we know each other, and they've gone, no, I've never met you. And I'm like, Well, I guess I know everything about you and your three children and your two dogs and where you live.

Speaker 3 6:34

Like, it's a weird world where you've been on holiday and what you had for dinner the other night.

Speaker 1 6:40

Yeah, I know. Really careful. Yes, so so we we've we've met, but we don't know exactly exactly where. And we haven't, I don't think we've had like massively in in-depth discussion. So I'm really excited to talk to you about your work, which sounds really interesting. And this uh, you know, relationship to music, which, you know, I I I must admit is such a great way. I I think so. Anna Korean uses music to help establish, I guess, a connection with your client and and flesh out a brief and understand them more. And I can't think of anything better because for me, music is something that I use to relate to people all the time. Lauren knows how much, you know, and Lauren's a big music cover too, how much I love that. And I think that sometimes you have this instant connection with someone if you can discuss something that you love about, you know, any kind of art, I suppose, but music, I've never really thought about it. Where, where is where did that sort of process start, like that idea come from?

Speaker 3 7:37

Yeah, I think we've probably done it now for the last maybe all or five years. And uh I actually I would lie if I would sort of think exactly where the moment came, but I mean, music has always played a big part in my life. And I think I was listening to, I think it was Brian Eno. I don't know if you know who Brian Eno is a music controducer, and he talked about how the music is the language of emotion. So when he, you know, uh you put on a piece of music and immediately you feel something, and I thought, well, that's when you walk in somewhere, immediately you feel somewhere. So, how can I find a way of understanding what my clients wants to feel? So that's why the first thing I ask is if your project had a theme song, what would that song be? And everyone gets a little bit, oh, I don't know.

Speaker 8:19

Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. I thought you were gonna ask me if I wanted stone or you know exactly. No, that's it.

Speaker 3 8:25

And everyone comes, you know, with a shopping list of I want this and I want that and that. No, no, I'm not gonna, we're not gonna talk about that. Before we're gonna talk, there's three things, there's three things I want from you before we start talking about anything else. Then the first thing is the theme song, and then that, oh wow. And then I want a name, which is an anonymous kind of personal name of the name of your project and of your house because I don't want your name, I don't want the street name, I don't want the suburb, I want a name that's unique for what this project is. So you ask them for that. Yes, I ask them for that. Or we work it out together. Yeah, that's cute. Yeah, and then I want three feeling words that also describes the project, and they need to be kind of spike feeling words, and I got that from there's quite a famous um uh fashion stylist in New York, and I can't remember her name, but I remember listening to her talking about how she try and develop a unique style for her clients when she dresses them. And she said, I don't want to have all Laura Ashley, I want to have Laura Ashley with a bit of a punk and a bit of helmet lang in it. So you kind of throw in three kind of different styles, and that becomes your unique styles. And I think an interior is also often a combination of because if it's only one aesthetics in it, it can be a bit dull and and one-dimensional. But if you get three words, then you can start to see how it's going to feel. So once we've done that session, then it kind of becomes quite clear to me what it's going to look like. So, for example, we just did a presentation yesterday for a client. So we've already established the song, and it was a Taylor Swift song. Oh, which one? Oh Ophelia. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then the word the house already had a name, so it was like it was um a name that the house already had. So we used that, and then the words, if I can't remember them like sophisticated, fresh, and something else, which I can't remember. But before I even start the presentation, I put the song on.

Speaker 2 10:15

Oh and we all dance.

Speaker 3 10:16

Great idea. And we all dance, and okay, this is the vibe, this is the vibe we're after. Let's this is now what we're trying. And then I walk through what we have kind of come up with for their house. Wow. And then if they come into our office to a meeting, I make sure that when they come in, their song is playing.

Speaker 10:33

So clients must be just like, what on earth? Like, I did not expect this. Like, what a beautiful journey to take a client on. Like, what an enjoyable process. Yeah. No, it is. You you're showing that you uh they feel seen and heard. Their literal favorite song is playing in the background. Like, I love that.

Speaker 3 10:51

No, it's quite amazing. And then we had one client after we had done that first session, and she just broke into tears. She says, No one's ever asked me these sort of questions ever in my life. Because it wasn't just about the music and the words, but it was also like, what is it? Those unique things that you feel you want to express, you want to feel in your home. And she had all these medals from when her dad, who was in the army, she brought, This is kind of okay. Well, like let's make sure we can that's part of your grief. And then it was like, yeah, she was quite overwhelmed. So it's a beautiful process, and I love it.

Speaker 11:21

Yeah, that is so true. Sometimes you feel like no uh clients don't don't have this opportunity to unpack that part of their lives with anybody else in such a it's a it's sort of a semi-formal way, like yeah, and what a luxury just to have and we're just like so enthusiastically listening, like tell us like unpack this. Say more, like, yeah.

Speaker 3 11:43

Well, I think it's better than a therapist as well, because you actually get a built environment two for one. Yeah, you go and see a therapist, and often left with of course, might be helpful. Probably more questions. So we are actually, and now you know that both of you, we work we are half of our job is to be like therapists and marriage counsellors and you know ecologists very much.

Speaker 1 12:03

100%. I'm I'm super curious to know is there a song that's been put forward that really stands out for you as being quite unusual or just really unexpected?

Speaker 3 12:14

Yes, and that actually this this pant who actually see it because she I did not expect the song that I got from her because I thought it was going to be yeah, maybe something more like a Taylor Swift or a Barry Manilow or something, if I were to just you know, quite proper. And but her song was catfish blues. It was like a blue song, quite deep and you know, southern and groovy and raw and so obviously I know it was a person part of her personality that I really didn't expect, but it made the decisions that we made also. I wasn't scared of proposing things to her that was a little bit more you know left of feel because I felt that song was unusual. Yeah. Oh, I love that. And I've also I've learned, I've discovered new music through this that I've never heard before. Oh wow.

Speaker 1 13:00

Yeah, yeah. Do you have like a client playlist? I'd probably have a playlist with all of the songs.

Speaker 4 13:06

Yes, we do as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 13:09

What would you have for I can't honestly um was trying to think. There's no way I could answer that right now because I would struggle to narrow something down to a song. One song does jump straight into my head, actually. So maybe it's that, which is um Modern Love by David Bowie. Oh yeah. Yeah, that is a classic. I've heard Bree sing that in the shower. That's I don't know what it is about that song, but in our hotel. I kind of go, that's my happy place, I think. It really is cool.

Speaker 3 13:38

Well, that's it. That's it. That's the one that first pop in. I think that's the one.

Speaker 1 13:42

Because I that's so funny because I I was sort of thinking, oh, what would I? But that is probably uh my go-to. I don't know that I'd say it's my absolute favourite song because I just have too many, but it is just something that resonates.

Speaker 3 13:54

Well, it makes you feel a certain way, and maybe it feels that that's the song that makes me feel closest to who I really am somehow. Oh that's kind of deep.

Speaker 14:05

Gonna make me cry. What's your song, Anna Carin? Did you say Brian E, was it?

Speaker 3 14:12

No, the one for our so Lance and I, when we so we've been together for like six years now, five, six years, but we moved in, when we moved in together and renovated the apartment where we live now, our song is Solid Air by John Martin. And it's also I didn't really know John Martin either before I met Lance, but

Unexpected Songs And Braver Choices

Speaker 3 14:30

it's this beautiful sort of evocative, soft guitar song. And I think the lyrics also is so good for solid air. It's almost like I'm trying to make something in the built environment of a feeling. So if the air is almost like that's the feeling I want, but I'm making it into something solid. So I think solid air. Oh gosh. I know you need to hear that song. It's actually a great song.

Speaker 14:53

I'm just putting it into my Spotify right now. Put it in now, yeah.

Speaker 1 14:57

Well, now you have to go, Lauren. Yeah.

Speaker 14:59

Well, I when I was thinking that, um, I was like, what and the first song that came to mind is Do you know War on Drugs? War on Drugs. So it's like a really long song. Where is it? Oh, there's it's these a this American band, and it's um there's a song called Red Eyes, and it goes on for ages, and it's just like really cruisy and guitar, and the lyrics are kind of sort of not really in your face, but it's just like a real vibe. I love that song.

Speaker 2 15:24

See, that's another one too. I know exactly. One likes, but yeah, okay, here we go.

Speaker 15:31

But solid air, I'm gonna I'm gonna have a listen to that. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 15:35

This is fun. We're taking a pause moment while we all write down each other's songs. Yeah, right.

Speaker 3 15:40

I'll need to write down these songs as well. I'll add them to our playlist.

Speaker 1 15:43

But what we know is way less niche than you two.

Speaker 3 15:48

No, it's not me, it's Lan. But what we've started to do as well, because so Lance is a commercial film director, so he's actually started to do little videos. He's we've done only four so far of our projects, where of course the music is difficult to do because there's uh, you know, if we were to use, we had one where we had Kylie Minogue, guess the song. It was Kylie Minogue, please stay. And we've done a video on that, and we can't use her music obviously for copyright. So we've tried to find something, you know, royalty-free that has a similar vibe. And we try and get the clients to be in the videos, but if they don't, we find a different way of portraying the mood of the of the project. So in this one where we had Kylie, we've got so Jenny who works with me, her one of her best friends is a Kylie impersonator. So we have her coming and we played this song, and he filmed her as she walks into the house dressed as the cleaning lady, and then she walks into the kitchen and throws her gown off, and under that, she's wearing the full gold pop pants and the gold singlet, and then she dances. Amazing, and then she dances with the duster through the whole music, and then in the background, because the clients were happy to be part in audio, but they didn't want to be filmed, so they are talking about the house as she's walking around dancing.

Speaker 1 16:59

God, I need to see this.

Speaker 3 17:01

Yeah, I know. I send it to you.

Speaker 17:03

Is it on YouTube or how do we send it?

Speaker 3 17:05

No, we haven't really. We are just doing uh so Olivia, lovely Olivia, that you you know, Olivia on it, as I call her. Um, she uh we're doing a little invent that we are inviting a number of journalists. So I think it's next the 17th of June. So before then, we haven't really shown them too. We're trying to work out the best way of doing this somehow. I don't know, I have no idea. This is so fun. Yeah, but we're having fun.

Speaker 17:29

Oh, I love that. You know, when you were when you're talking about music and your background, are are you Swedish? Is that the background? Oh yeah, Swedish. And I mean, they're so famous for their their pop music.

Speaker 4 17:40

I know, I know.

Speaker 17:41

Max Martin, like all of these amazing like producers, Robin, like love her yes so much.

Speaker 3 17:47

That's amazing. Music culture is but I my my music background is probably a little bit more not as cool as that. I I mean I grew up in a little tiny village in the south of Sweden. But my dad was uh he's turning 95. My parents are turning 95 this year, but he was the organist in our local church. And we all, there's four siblings of us, and we all had to contribute and play at points, and we all played in the same band. So I played the flute, my brother played the trombone and the drums, and my sister played the clarinet. So we all played in the same band, like a brass band, you know, marching band.

Speaker 5 18:24

Like you know, yeah.

Speaker 3 18:26

So that was kind of my musical um upbringing, and then I had two older brothers who were serious into rock and roll. So I kind of even though I love ABBA and the pop music, but rock and roll was where my heart lies. Um Swedish house mafia.

Speaker 2 18:45

Um, there's so many, so many, yeah. Oh and rock set. Oh, yeah. What an icon. I know, yeah.

Speaker 18:56

Oh, amazing. So this kind of thread of music, it's just been throughout your whole life, and then you've somehow managed to merge that with the interior design, which is so genius. Yes, I know, yeah, yeah. And it's um, you know, when you were talking about like the words that you you have. I I remembered a project I did it a few years ago down on the Mornington Peninsula, and I was um that here they were from New York, so I wanted to bring some of that New York kind of attitude, but the house was a very old, almost like a an English mock tutor cottage sort of style. So when I put together the concept, I I guess I kind of gave it a title as well. Cottage punk was what I called it.

Speaker 3 19:35

And the clients Oh yeah, look, that's two spike words. That exactly.

Speaker 19:38

The clients loved that. And they can it gives them something to kind of hold on to. And and as you said, all of the decisions that you make, you're coming back to the cottage punk theme or or whatever that that is. So and and uh hopefully, I don't know if I put my my own music taste into it a bit too much. Well, I was getting really carried away with it. But um, but um, yeah, it's I'm going to, I think I'm gonna ask my clients too. Can I steal your idea about this song?

Speaker 3 20:05

100%. Oh, I don't think I'm sure there are others as well. I don't think I'm the first one to do it either, but I haven't heard about anyone. But I think it's open. I think it's good. I think ultimately what we all try and do is to create better, beautiful, more homes. So I don't think there's any IP on that.

Speaker 20:21

Yeah, and you can look for it. So much about a client from that song. Like as you said, those unexpected things.

Speaker 1 20:27

But do you talk to them about so if they put the song forward, especially if it's a bit unexpected, and maybe even when it's not, I suppose you you would then have a discussion with them about what that means to them and what they kind of interpret from that as how that connects back to their space. So, how does that kind of conversation go?

Speaker 3 20:45

So, one, for example, we had this first meeting as well, and the we came up with the song Seven Days by Sting. And that, I don't know if you know that song, but it has a quite a unique rhythm to it. It's um not a standard sort of three, four, the rhythm, it's a kind of, I think it's a four-five or something like that. And that to me is okay, you're slightly off beat. You have a little bit of a quirky side to you, and how can we kind of bring that into your project? It also shows that you have there's a there's a melody to it, and sting obviously is very harmonious, so there needs to be a certain harmony in here, but it can't be off beat. And then I think the other word that we came up with after discussing that song as well was rustic. They like things a little bit, not too polished, not too perfect, like a little bit of raw materials, raw timber. So that sort of there's always something that can be drawn out from a song, I think, in and explain how the feeling of it is.

Speaker 21:40

The feeling, and I think that's the the thing as well, because I had a wonderful meeting with a client yesterday, and she wanted to share her Instagram images, which she has about 550 saved into a folder. She's she's the best, she's hilarious, but it's so much more than what it looks like, it's that feeling. And also you don't want to copy something from an image. And I think if you start with something like music, then it's it's another approach. It's not just about what it looks like, it's the feeling. And and those two different things, as you said, can kind of come together, the the Laura Ashley and the punk, you know, or whatever it was. Like it that creates that sort of unusual tension and it makes it truly theirs. Yeah. Yeah.

Sweden To Australia And Home Rituals

Speaker 22:24

Can we talk a little bit about? I'm curious how you came from Sweden to Australia. What how do you think?

Speaker 2 22:32

How does normal Swedish go? A man? Yes. Of course we want some man. You have you met anyone who didn't stay or come for that reason from Sweden? So why would you go this freaking far away from Sweden? The furthest place. Yeah.

unknown 22:50

Yeah.

Speaker 3 22:51

So um I when I I studied interior design in in London. And when I was in London, I met Peter, and then after having known him for a few weeks, months, I came here. And we have we were married for 25 years, we've got three children, and then you know, after a while, that's and now I'm with Lance, and that's how I came here and I'll stay. But I was quite adamant that I wasn't just going to come and test it out. I was like, no, no, no, I am moving and I'm staying. I'm not doing anything half done. I was committed to just stay in Australia, and I sort of come to love Australia just as much as I love Sweden. So I've been equal times almost now in both countries. And and I interestingly, two of our children have chosen to live in Stockholm at the moment. So wow. I'm gonna go over there now in July.

Speaker 23:39

Oh, beautiful. And how do you think that um Swedish upbringing and that more Scandinavian approach to living in a home, how do you think that sort of influences your projects in Australia?

Speaker 3 23:50

Oh, tremendously much so, I think. Because I mean, so my mother is my mum, as I said before, they're 95. This morning I get a photo from her. So it's early June in Sweden, and she's just been out. She still lives where I grew up in the farm. She plants a full vegetable garden and her flowers. She brings in almost every day fresh flowers and puts them on the table. She's got an iron tablecloth, she put the, you know, the the flowers on the table and the candles next to it. And I think, I think it it's kind of in my DNA to be really conscious of how you, you know, the environment that you create in your home, no matter humble. And ours is a very humble home. It's nothing, it was nothing flashed, it was no the interior design elements in it, but it was always filled with good food and good flowers and candles. I think that's kind of influenced how I got a beautiful ritual, fresh flowers every day.

Speaker 24:45

Like that is like I would say that is like the peak of luxury, like from your own garden as well. From your own garden, I know. Oh, that's so gorgeous. Yeah. And how what do you think the main differences are between how people live in somewhere like Sweden to Australia? How do they approach home?

Speaker 3 25:03

I think Swedes value rituals much more, I think, than what Australians do. Very much a ritual around not only the, you know, you have the seasons, obviously, and how you honour each season and the rituals around that season, like the you know burning of the May, the uh the light the 31st of April. You burn the winter out, you burn all that. You have what is that? So you collect all the debris, so the snow is melted and there's all this debris around. You collect it and then you burn it. So you welcome the first of May. Really? And you have a big party, and okay. Cool. So you sell there's a lot of rituals around that that you keep doing, and there always has it's certain activities around it that you do, it has certain types of food that you have with it, and also you have certain music that you only sing at those times.

Speaker 25:53

So it's always absolutely no. No.

Speaker 3 25:59

No, you sing and welcome. So, for example, for the first of May, it's like beautiful May, welcome, you know, goodbye, winter, and you know, so everything. So this always and then you have Midsummer, obviously, that's coming up shortly, and you you have the Midsummer pole, you celebrate all the new flowers that's come, you collect seven flowers and put them on your pillow and you dream that night. So I think the rituals around everything very differently.

Speaker 26:35

A spring claim.

Speaker 3 26:37

Christmas is also Christmas is so much more celebrated from the first of Advent. The whole sub December is full of little things that you do and things that you eat at that certain date, and things that you gather to do, like the sea and the 13th of it's like full of rituals. I feel that's something that I felt coming to Australia. It's just one flat year, and then all of a sudden there's two days of Christmas and then it's flat again, very little.

Speaker 1 27:02

But don't you think like so for me, the ritual thing, and I it makes me actually a little bit sad because even some of the things I remember. So I think I guess Australia mostly being a country of immigrants, right? We've all brought different traditions from different countries, and some people have kind of kept them. I would say most of them have faded away over time and through the generations. And the thing for me, and I sort of say this about Australia and it not having maybe as much culture as other countries, is I think we're just more disconnected to things, including our homes, because ritual connects you to time and place and home and people. And when you remove that, you sort of you sort of are a bit cultureless in a way, and you're disconnected to things. And I think that's where a lot of I don't know, people become unhappy or they're kind of not a bit lost and they don't really know how to, I don't know, behave in certain ways. And we get very caught up instead in like capitalism and I don't know, I'm getting a bit deep, but like I think ritual is really important. Like I know, I think it actually makes you happier.

Speaker 3 28:07

I agree, and and but I and I think you're absolutely right that if you come to a new country, it's how and I've felt that coming to Australia as a Swede. In the beginning, I would go to the Swedish Club and try and celebrate Christmas or try and celebrate midsummer here, like now. And and it it does feel a little bit artificial. You can't really do it in the same way because it's not the right same season. It's not it's a bit like Christmas in July to me. It's never really done it. I'm not sure, but it doesn't sit even if it's cold here. But I do think, and I should talk to, you know, my my kids about this quite a lot. It's like, no, we don't have because you can because Peter and I divorced and we don't have the family unit in the same way anymore. But I think it's kind of a little bit up to us to create the new way of living and create a ritual that becomes ours. So someone would have started all, even if they were the pagans started these rituals. Someone at some point started a ritual. So why it could be us? We can start a new ritual, we can start doing these things that becomes our thing, and then hopefully you can teach your children that, and then eventually you'll become something that can take kind of flight in a way.

Speaker 1 29:10

Absolutely. I agree with that too. That um it does become up to us. I think it's an easy thing to lose when it's not sort of ingrained in you from a young age. So it's a hard it can be a hard thing to start too, I think. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah.

Speaker 29:25

And how do you think that interior design can facilitate some of those rituals?

Speaker 3 29:31

Good question. Yeah. Well, it depends how far do you go with the interior of the sun? I think obviously to uh to allow an environment to adapt to the seasons. Like I'd for example, and we would never do that these days, but my mother still changes the curtains spring and winter. Spring and autumn. I know. She's got summer curtains and winter curtains.

Speaker 1 29:52

But it probably makes so much sense, right? Especially, I think, where you have quite differing um climate and you need the heavier you know insulation on the windows, right? But you don't need that in the summer, well, sometimes you might need to do that. You don't need them in the summer. But yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 30:07

There's obviously more extreme seasons there, but I think also what you could, you know, to how can interior design support rituals and obviously that to allow and build places where there is easier to gather and connect, that's obviously an obvious one. Yes. But but also to maybe think that it doesn't need to be static. I think an interior design or a home that's adaptable can then adapt and change to not just the seasons but the ritual. So it's easy to. I mean, I like the fact that it's a nice backdrop, the whole sort of shell of a building and what you create in the walls and the static things, and everything else can then be changed and adapted to a certain event or a certain season or a certain ritual that you like to take place.

Speaker 30:50

I've um I'm being scratching my head this week to try to figure out this floor plan for a client because um there is so many things that she wants. She has a very extensive wish list, and it's actually so fun to figure it all out. But she wants the best. Uh she wants a mahjong table. Oh yeah, in a very specific spot. Love that. And what a beautiful ritual. Um in a way, and she wants um an Asian sort of space that has a a floor that is uh you can take off the floor and there's a mattress underneath, like all of these different ideas, and it's um that comes from small space living, doesn't it?

Speaker 1 31:31

Where um I remember in Vietnam going through one of the traditional homes, and because they were the homes weren't necessarily tiny, but they had a lot of different rooms and a lot of people lived in them, and they used one room for so many things. I think that comes from that having the bed underneath where you could you put that down at the you know in the morning and then you use that space for something else, and then you lift it up and use it for sleeping at night. Yeah. Like uh there's so much to learn from those little practices.

Speaker 3 31:58

And that's a good point where you can you know where you can design your interiors to fit to many different types of rituals.

Speaker 32:04

Exactly.

Career Turning Points And Mentorship

Speaker 32:06

So I'd love to talk a little bit about um, well, how you so you you were in Sweden, you followed a boy, came to Australia. How did you begin your career as an interior designer?

Speaker 3 32:18

So I had already started my career in Sweden. I started out, started influenced by my brothers. I started studying engineering. Oh, did you? And yeah, I did. But in Sweden it's a different Swedes who are listening, they know that we have uh we used to have, I don't know what it's like now, but but we chose kind of quite early on the direction that we were going to go. So already in high school, I studied engineering.

Speaker 32:42

But then in construction sort of engineering or what kind of engineering?

Speaker 3 32:46

I did civil engineering, so rogues. Oh wow, oh wow. Yeah. I know, I know, but then I know, and then with I know I finished that. So it was like a so we actually did high school two year, we did two, we did two more years, I think. So like year 14 of high school. Um, and then you could either choose to continue engineering or choose another. But I and I got a job, and I had a very wise friend to me, when I got that job, I said, I've got a job at a company making elevators in our local town. And she said to me, Anna Corin, well, that's a job that you like getting but hate having gonna do it. So I didn't take that job, and then instead I ended up moving to Stockholm and start working for an architectural practice as a sort of a junior. And they designed hospitals and big high rises and things. And I came to realize that I loved working on the small scale. I loved working in the bathrooms. That was my favorite part of it all this. I loved, I loved small detail, and then I ended up working for an interior design firm who did hotels and things, and then I worked to one day. I was asked, I don't know if you want to, is it have I got time to tell this story? It's a I'll try and make it breed. Yeah, no, go for it. So I think I'm about early in my early 20s then, and I'm walking in Stockholm, and someone knocks me on my shoulder and asks me, uh, that they say, okay, we're from a company called Esprit, and we're looking for models, you know, like on normal people who can come and do a show for us in Esprit's head office in Stockholm. And of course, you know, you're 20-something, you're very flat. Oh my god, I'm a model, you know. So I love it. But and I go out to this head office of Esprit, and Esprit was massive then. This is kind of in the what is it, late 80s or something.

Speaker 34:28

Massive.

Speaker 3 34:28

And and I walked into this building, and I was I had never seen anything like it. It was this big industrial building, it had been renovated. It was, you know, floating staircases. There was, it was all I remember just this beautiful light blue color, everything. There was portholes. It was something that I'd never seen before. I was completely taken by it. And needless to say, the modeling assignment didn't go very well. I was never asked back. I think it was my only stint, only an ever stint in modeling. I was I was kind of walking around, looking at the ceiling space, looking at the space. But so what I did ask before I left, who designed this building? And they said, and they gave me the name. So the next Monday I call up that office and said, I've been just free. I want to work for you. Can I come to her interview? I really want to, you know, I can see that this was something else. And that was Rupert Gardner. He was an English architect, he just moved to Sweden and he'd done that. He was like the it architect at the moment. He'd also just done a nightclub. So I walked into him and he just kind of looked at me, well, what can you do? And I showed him, I thought I'd put together my portfolio of the work I had done previously, and he just looked at me, well, this is useless. I've got no use for you. If you can't do anything more than this, I'll, you know, I've got no use for you. Can you can you show me that you can actually draw? And I burst into tears. Oh no. I ran out of there, and then and then I went to my office where I work, which was another interview, and and rolled up all the original drawings that I had done. And we used to draw on film. I don't know if you know these days, we used to draw on film. So I took the originals with me, completely illegal. And I hope they're not listening. Slunter or something. And I took them with me, and then I stood outside the door the next day with the roll under my arm, knocked on the door when they opened, said, Rupert, can I see you again? And I just roll them out and said, I really want to. This is I've done these as well. I thought you want to see my creative side. I didn't think. And you just looked at them. Okay, when can you start? And then Rupert was the one who actually, I think, taught me more than anything. So he was from the UK. He got me to then go to UK and study interior design as well. So I did a master at the Royal College of Art, which he was an alumni of. And he became my mentor until he passed away a few years ago. And he's been my go-to. I think I learned more from him than from any study or anything else. Because he, I remember the very first project I worked with him. And we did a, we were working on a cruise ship that was going from between Sweden and Finland. And we do the little jewelry store, and I had drawn something and it was five millimeters off, and he just blew off because he was five millimeters. And that's when I started to understand about the importance of immaculate detailing because he was incredible at that.

Speaker 36:58

So a bit of a long story, but five millimeters. Wow, that's nothing.

Speaker 3 37:02

Yeah, no.

Speaker 37:03

Um I actually love the fact that you were so drawn into this space and you took it on yourself. You weren't waiting for an invitation. You took it on yourself and you said, I want to work for you. Like I sometimes I feel like um you do have to knock on doors, literally. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and I think it takes a bit of courage. And I also think that when you're younger as well, you kind of just do stuff like that. Or I I don't know.

Speaker 1 37:30

I think you maybe you get a bit older, you're maybe you're a bit less um maybe yeah, maybe we I don't know, it becomes I feel like you go through a stage maybe where you're a little bit more scared, and then as you get older, you go like I you don't care again, like you were younger. I think you kind of come full circle. But what I love about that whole story is uh something that I think I've come to believe more and more as I've gotten older, is that you know, you were supposed to randomly see that person who went come to a spree, and you saw that space, even though it had kind of nothing to do with interior design, and then you ended up meeting the person who was going to be like the biggest influence in your career. I know. And that's a chance meeting. Like those are the things that kind of give me little goosebump moments. I 100% agree. And you knew, and that's why, even though you cried and ran out, you still went back because you kind of something was telling you that was the path you were supposed to take, and it was right. Like, I feel like that's that's the nice part of the body.

Speaker 3 38:27

But the funny thing is, many, many years later, we moved, you know, when our kids were little, we moved back to Sweden to put them into primary school in Sweden. So this is like 15 years after I've moved to Australia, I think. And I'm walking down the street in Stockholm. I'm gonna have a year off. Who's the one I meet on the street that very first day? Are you sick? The guy who worked I worked with with Rupert, and he said, Oh my god, come and see Rupert. He would love to see you. I walked in and he said, Oh my god, Anakon, it's like an angel. So we just landed this project. I need you. So I ended up working with him that whole year, full time. I was in Finland every second week. I had to get a nanny in to look after the kids, and he, you know, so it's like there's so many things with that. A relationship that's more than incredible, you know. I love that.

Speaker 39:08

It's quite amazing. Yeah. I'd

What Makes A House A Home

Speaker 39:11

like to talk to you about you, you sort of uh mentioned it before with your mum and bringing in the flowers on a freshly ironed tablecloth. What are some of the things that make a house a home for you in your projects?

Speaker 3 39:26

I think the word that comes to mind is commitment. It's like, you know, you can't be too generalized. You have to commit to that person and what it is that they do. Because if you try and fit everything, whether it is, you know, the you know, an a cook or two sort of sculpture or something, you have to kind of embrace that that is part of who they are. So I think it's commitment to their aesthetic. I think it's a commitment, yeah. Because if you do too generalized, that's why when you walk into a high-rise that's been made to fit everyone but no one, it becomes a little bit that it's got no, it's no soul. So I think a commitment to a certain aesthetic is what, and not, you know, and when it's specific and not too general, if that makes sense somehow.

Speaker 40:05

I love that. It's so true. You have to say, you know what, I I like this, I love this. Yeah, I'm gonna lean into it and I'm gonna go all in.

Speaker 3 40:13

I'm gonna go all in with this. Yeah, I'm gonna go all in with your, you know, whatever it might be. If you love, you know, Laddro sculptures, let's go, let's put them all out, let's show them all, you know, let's not hide them. Yes, let's be, let's be connected to this and be specific rather than too, you know, general.

Speaker 1 40:31

Yeah. So it's when it's tailored for, I mean, really, that's what we're saying. It's when it's becomes their place that's what makes it feel like a home and not just this sort of generic. And you see so much of that too. I think I think leaning into whatever it is is absolutely what gives it a space character and connects you to the space because when it feels so generic, you know, I I go into a lot of homes to look at them for photo shoots as locations, and the amount of homes I go into, and I just go, there's they've spent probably millions, you know, on these renovations or building a new home. And it's there's so many of them that are just so soulless. Like, yeah, where is that person in here? It's just the sort of very generic architecture that everybody's kind of aspiring to because they want it to look like this. It's kind of that whole thing about choosing aesthetics before choosing the mood and the feel and the connection. And then you end up with kind of like, I don't know, something missing. And I think that, you know, and I think Lauren, you've had this too. This is often where a client ends up coming to you, is they have spent the money and they've got the house, and maybe they've got some amazing furniture pieces or whatever, is actually come from what they sort of really want and feel and I don't know, connect to. And they they feel a bit lost because they're they've they're like, but I did all of these things and did all these pretty Pinterest ideas. Why do I still not feel like this is my home? And that's the reason.

Speaker 3 41:57

That's why we exist, and that's why they need us, just to help them. Because I do think, you know, it I do think our skill as designers is to kind of distill that and create something in the built environment that can portray and kind of give them that feeling. Because it is it's a highly skilled art form, I think, to be to do that. And and you know, just like everyone can't be a surgeon, everyone can't be a designer either. I think we have a certain you know part of our brain that's opened up and they can see and feel things that you know not everyone can do.

Speaker 42:28

Um, and I looked at your project that was on Est recently. Yeah, it's so stunning. It's this, I think it's one of your Sydney, yeah, Sydney terrace.

Speaker 3 42:37

Yeah, it's in Alexandria, yeah.

Speaker 42:39

Stunning. And it's got that, it's got the soul to it. I don't know how to describe it. I mean, it drew me in straight away. The photography is beautiful, the the textures, the materials, it's uh got their artwork in the space. Um, and I I like what you said about, you know, Laddro sculptures, which is a random kind of thing to say. But is Laddro trending? Like maybe not. Is it? I don't know. It's not like a trending on Pinterest.

Speaker 3 43:06

But we do have a client that had a cupboard because, you know, I also, you know, throughout these whole initial projects with the song and everything, but also to kind of for them to identify one item in your home that means something to you and what it is in this and what made me think of Laddro was is a sculpture that she had. It was sitting in the cupboard wrapped in you know tissue paper, and she never had it out. So we built a shelf for it. So it was a sculpture called windswept, you know, a ladder, and we put it up on the shelf overlooking the ocean. So she was guarding over them.

Speaker 43:34

Oh, so lovely. Take something out of a cupboard and say something out of a cupboard. Anyhow, and it it doesn't um I think it's sort of coming back to what you're saying, Brie, it's not about having that Pinterest perfect space, it's it's meaningless about looking at that deeper level. And I have to say, you know, Anna Karina, as you were saying, that's why people come to us, but actually, I don't think they really know that. That's what we that's what we do. I think people think that. We do create those Pinterest moments, which yes, they they um they definitely happen. Um, but it's that deeper, that soulful feeling that's really them.

Speaker 3 44:10

Yeah, and the project that you mentioned, the one in Alexandria Atrium, I think those clients also were they live were living overseas, they were living in uh Miami and between Miami and New York, and they were going to come back to Australia. So we did that project completely sort of remotely. We never met them until the house was finished. But they started out, yeah, we had the song, we had the words, we had the music, but they also had a collection of furniture that they already owned in their house outside New York. And they were all these beautiful Scandinavian finials, pelican chair, they had the Wagner Flag Halliard chairs, and also they collected a lot of pottery made by sort of female hands. Plus, they had an one of them had a strong interest in Chinese medicine. So we had it were so many aspects to build on once I got clear on their personality. So the whole sculpture was actually based on the five seasons from the Chinese medicine. So each piece in the sculpture had a shape, a colour, and a direction that related to the five seasons. So there's a lot of kind of layered symbolism in that house as well, even though it might not immediately yet to be. Yeah.

Speaker 45:19

And you know what's sometimes pretty wild as well? Sometimes you could have those really beautiful pieces that are so meaningful for a client. But guess what happens during the photo shoot? They get yanked out. I know.

Speaker 1 45:30

Oh, that's so true, too. And actually, that's a really good point. And I do feel like, you know, this is a whole other topic, but I do feel like we maybe are becoming a little homogenized in our um representation of interiors. Some definitely stand out, and I feel like that maybe there's a bit of a new shift towards more unique spaces. But we used to have um print publications that really kind of like highlighted that. And I think the only one now I can really think of straight off the bat is like interior. What's the one? What do you want to do? Design files. It's literally about um oh, design files to some extent. But design files also have their own brand and they look for things that you know fit their look, which I guess is what I'm talking about. But um, in the world of interiors, sorry. Um I guess just where a place is captured for its beauty and all its imperfections and all the all the things that are in there, right? Um, and not necessarily curated back and create and made into something to shoot. It's actually, I don't know, sought after because that is already the way it looks. Yeah. That makes sense.

Speaker 46:39

They're the things that make the space special and unique. It's not uh all the stuff you take out and put other random stuff in there. I also love that project that you just did recently. Well, I think it's recent in Fitzroy. I can't wait to see more of that one, too.

Speaker 3 46:52

I know. We haven't, so they've just done it in Vogue Living and we have an embargo on it. I think 60 days. That's exciting. And that was a complete, it was unique in the sense that it basically hadn't been touched since it was built in 1900. They had put a kitchen in in the 40s. Oh my god. And it was the same family who had lived there. So a mother who lived there with her husband, and then their son, and then the son who ended up living there for the rest of his life until he died. So it literally had only had, I think it had had 125 years, it's been in the same family. And it was a challenge. It was so we try to just very gently keep it and just restore that. No, it's it's we kept the kitchen where it was, we didn't open anything up, you know. And it was funny because we've actually done a little video about that as well. And there was one phrase that kind of stood out because the you know, the the question was asked, what you know, what was your feeling when you first walked in here? And we're calling it the Dame, the Fitzroy Dane or the Brunswick Dane. Oh, I love it. The Dane whispered to me and she said, Yeah, please can you just rescue my soul? I just want to be rescued, please. Oh, sweet. Don't ruin my soul, or don't destroy my essence and my soul. And it was very clear that we just need to be very so we tried it. We pulled up all the floorboards and put them back again to level the floor. That's amazing. We just did yeah, yeah, let the kitchen where it was.

Speaker 1 48:18

I wish that happened more often, to be honest. Yeah.

Speaker 3 48:21

But it started out, they wanted to have the big okay, let's put an extension at the back and go up and do this and that. But then, you know, real estate agents don't normally have a lot of, you know, I shouldn't say that, but this there was a real estate agent that came and said, You're actually better off leaving it as a two-bedroom, luxurious cottage than trying to squeeze three bedrooms and a parking and a studio and all of that into it.

Speaker 1 48:43

And I think also that that suburb lends itself to be a more unique property is going to be more sought after, surely, right? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 48:51

So I'm thankful to that real estate agent. Yeah, that's good advice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 48:56

Said an interior design never, interior designer ever. Yeah, yeah. Never did an interior designer say, Thank thank goodness to that real estate agent. Yeah.

Speaker 49:07

But I suppose with the property like that, once you really start knocking down walls, opening up, putting a garage underneath, and you can't get that charm back. You can't get that essence back. It's like when you knock down the rainforest trees.

Speaker 1 49:21

And they take thousands of years to grow back. It's the same thing.

Speaker 49:24

Bree's gonna start crying again about the trees.

Speaker 2 49:27

Don't talk. It's not about the tree.

Speaker 49:29

We were talking before we started recording, and she's like, Yeah. Sorry, yeah. I'm saying about the tree.

Speaker 2 49:37

What was the thing about the trees? Tell me.

Speaker 1 49:39

Oh, oh god, Anna Karin, you didn't even hear. I was just talking about a book I'm listening to at the moment, and as she was.

Speaker 2 49:45

Yeah, I was trying to get my earphones working. I couldn't listen to it.

Speaker 3 49:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1 49:47

She was in Tasmania and um, well, she grew up in Tasmania, so she had a real connection to, you know, the land there. And just talking about um when she'd moved back there and seeing, you know, being behind one of the trucks with like this massive, you know, meters diameter tree, and that that would have been thousands and thousands of years old, and that the Tasmanian rainforests don't regenerate once they're gone, they're gone. Like that's gone forever. Anyway, it's a it's a longer story if you want me to get into it, but I don't think you do.

Speaker 2 50:17

Well, I get onto it a topic sometimes, and I I know, no, I get it. I haven't I can relate to you when it comes to trees because you know, I grew up in the forest.

Speaker 3 50:27

Yeah, of course. Trees is. I've actually started to write uh subspects and I wrote about the 60-year tree in one of mine, which was the trees that you know we walked around. I walked around the forest with my dad, and he said, So Anakarana planted this forest the year you were born, and now we are, you know, ready to log it. And it was like 60 years later.

Speaker 50:46

Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 50:48

About, you know, patience and understanding that some things takes a long time.

Speaker 50:53

It does. So, what's your substack

Substack Ideas Plumbing Metaphors And Wrap

Speaker 50:55

called? What design can do. Oh, thank you. I'm gonna follow that. Um, you know, it's interesting what you're what you're doing because I love your Instagram, your videos where you talk to the camera and you're talking about the films that you're making with your partner, and then you've got your substack as well. So, do you sort of enjoy those things on the periphery of interior design as well? I do. I do.

Speaker 3 51:16

And I also think in this a little bit like what you talked about Bree before, is about how to get past that notion that interior design is so much more than aesthetics. It's not really about how things look, there's a philosophy around it. So when I write, it's like I'm reasoning in my own mind around what it is that really makes good design, good design, and and how I can find difference. Last week I wrote about the Vikings. Oh, did you a concept that the Vikings started and had, like the the oldest design concept in the world, which is called gourd, which is basically you know, a sense of belonging. So they call the where the humans lived is mead gourd, and where the goddess lived was our. I won't go into deeply. You can read the part of that. And then there was also Utgord, things that kept you away. But it's this notion that you create a little, you know, fence almost around you, and this is where you belong. This is my belonging, I belong. So our farm is called Estre Gord, and our neighbours is Vestre Gord. So everything has this gourd, and a fence is called Yash Gord. So I kind of all of a sudden started to think about what this gourd means, and it's really what design is about. It's about creating a sense of belonging and also where we are protected from the outside world and the forces of everything that goes outside. So once we have this sense of belonging in our homes, we can feel safe and connected. And it's a concept that's been, you know, around forever. I can't wait to read that.

Speaker 52:44

That is so beautiful. Have you written a book? Have you had a book out? I had it. I thought so.

Speaker 3 52:50

Is it a while ago now? I feel this needs to be, I feel there's lots of things there that I've evolved from. But anyway, it was the beginning. It's probably 12 years ago now. Something it's called Make a Home to Love. Have to bring joy, order, and beauty into your home.

Speaker 53:03

Beautiful. Can people buy that through you? I think they still can. No, I think it's still on Amazon and stuff or somewhere. I think so. Yeah. Okay. Oh, amazing. Yeah, good. That sounds really interesting. I love that. How funny is Substack 2? It's such a nice vibe over there.

Speaker 3 53:17

It is. It is. It's very different to any other sort of if I don't know if you call it social media, but it's a different platform. And there was someone who recommended me because I kind of gave a talk once at an event and it was about plumbing. There was another substack. That was my first one I wrote. My love of plumbing.

Speaker 2 53:34

You're hilarious.

Speaker 1 53:38

Such an amazing thing.

Speaker 3 53:40

You love plumbing.

Speaker 1 53:42

Is that the engineering you?

Speaker 3 53:44

Is that the I think well it started because we had to do a termpate the ones in year, whatever, one year. And my Lisa and my friend and I, we did, and we wrote the paper on waste water management. So we had to go and visit the local, you know, waste water management plant in Vecchio where we lived or where I studied. And I found it incredibly fascinating. I still remember the smell, I remember what it looked like. I remember everything. And one thing I learned was it's okay to smell bit. Coffee sump into the drain. It's okay to do, by the way. If you ever feel you need to throw out this coffee in the bin, you can actually safely put it down because it's helped with the cleansing process.

Speaker 1 54:21

Oh, that's really you know what? Literally every morning I do my because I've got a coffee machine and I make my coffee, and you know, the puck I put in the bin, but then I have to rinse it. And I'm always thinking to myself, is that okay that I'm doing it?

Speaker 2 54:34

It's fine. It's okay. So I can now reassure you. And I've never properly checked.

Speaker 1 54:38

Now I feel much more confident about that.

Speaker 2 54:40

Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 54:40

Yeah, because it's coffee grounds as like um exfoliating and stuff. Except, yeah, you're sure you can't. But then you can put it down the drain.

Speaker 3 54:48

But I also started to understand the difference between wastewater and stormwater. So I'm using that kind of as a little bit as a metaphor for life, that we need to understand what issues in our life should be treated as stormwater and what issues in our life should be treated as wastewater. Wastewater needs a lot of cleansing, a lot of processing before we can let it out in the world, while stormwater should just be flushed out and let go of. So, yeah, that's kind of what that one's about.

Speaker 1 55:13

I love a metaphor.

Speaker 2 55:14

That's very cool. I know a good metaphor. Okay, too. I think you'll like that.

Speaker 1 55:19

Honestly, this has been such an amazing chat. I've thoroughly enjoyed every part of just fascinating. I feel like I'm gonna go away now and get distracted from work and go and um listen to the music. I think it's modern love as well.

Speaker 3 55:33

It's gonna be the song Modern Love and Warren Rogue.

Speaker 1 55:36

Well, that'll pick up Modern Love is like the perfect Friday song. It's such a good song.

Speaker 55:40

I'm gonna be asking all my clients. Um, I know that uh we're talking about the stone bench top and stuff, but just before I do that, before my favorite song, I love it.

Speaker 1 55:50

I think I'm definitely gonna incorporate it as well. I think it's I think it actually does give you so much insight. And maybe that I think the best part about that is that unexpected bit where maybe it sh it opens up something that you maybe couldn't have got to with normal, I don't know, standard kind of questioning.

Speaker 3 56:06

So no, and also it I think sometimes, and I know what we do is important in the series where we talked a lot about that, but I also think it's a such a privilege to be in the position to be able to do something about your home. So let's not make it too heavy and and we need to actually tone. And if you start with that song, everything else, then it's like, oh yeah, we love that, we love that, yeah. Let's do this, yeah. Okay, good, great, great, great. It's sort of sort of fits you all in the same sets the tone.

Speaker 56:32

And it's not uh so transactional, you know, it's not a transactional relationship that we have with our interior with our clients, you know. We're we're literally in their sock draw, we we get pretty close and personal with them, they're how they live, and you learn all these things about them and their family. Um so starting with the song, it's great kind of icebreaker in a way, and it's a great way to set the tone for this enjoyable experience because you know what? I have like a mentor sort of group, and so much of what we talk about is it's about the connection that you have with your client. Yeah, clients don't want you, they don't, they're not paying you for drawings, schedules, mood boards. It's so much more than that. It's that beautiful outcome. And I look at your projects and you can sort of just see the joy in it and the soul. It's just more than a um a trend picture. It's got so much depth, they're all different. Yeah, it's so we don't really have a signature style.

Speaker 3 57:28

I hope it's every project is quite good. Soulful not, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 57:32

And unique.

Speaker 1 57:33

Yeah.

Speaker 57:33

Beautiful. I've loved this chat, Anna Carin. Thank you so much. Thank you too.

Speaker 4 57:39

I'll see you soon. I hope. I hope so. Next panel. Let's talk about panel discussion. Important. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 57:46

Let's do it. Music or plumbing or something important in life for the Vikings.

Speaker 1 57:51

Let's see how we can bring those two things together.

Speaker 2 57:54

I think it's possible. I'm sure we can. I'm sure there's a way of doing that. Give me a yeah, let me think about that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 58:00

Wonderful.

Speaker 58:01

Thank you. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create, and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present, and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.