Design Anatomy

In Conversation with Cléophée Poli: The Art of Turning Everyday Spaces into Living Galleries

• Bree Banfield and Lauren Li • Season 3 • Episode 6

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What if your home could meet you where you are, every day? We sit down with Paris-based designer Cléophée Poli of Cléo Interior Design Studio to explore the psychology of home and why the best interiors are built around how people live, not what’s trending. Cléo’s path from luxury hospitality to interiors sharpened her instincts for service, diplomacy, and solving problems before they start, and she shares the scripts and strategies that keep projects humane and on track.

We trace how culture and climate shape design choices, from Australia’s indoor–outdoor ease to Paris’s nimble apartment living and Scandinavia’s cocooning warmth. Cléo designs across borders for expats and international clients, translating codes and expectations while protecting a clear vision. You’ll hear how she adapts drawings across regions, keeps trades aligned, and uses communication as the true universal tool of design.

Then we dive into a standout project at the famed Marché Paul Bert: a packing-and-shipping studio reimagined as a living gallery. With rotating vintage curated from market dealers, caramel and buttery tones, and a custom rug inspired by Eileen Gray and art deco geometry, the space proves even a practical brief can carry real theatre and soul. Along the way, we talk about sourcing vintage that gives rooms presence, building relationships with dealers for off‑market finds, and resisting trend fatigue by choosing objects with weight and memory.

If you’re rethinking your space, this conversation is a roadmap: honour your rituals, design for your climate, and choose a few pieces that speak so loudly they quiet the rest. 

Check out Cléo's socials: @cleointeriordesign ,  www.cleointeriordesign.com & Paul Bert Project

Subscribe, share with a friend who loves design, and leave a review to tell us what makes a space feel like home to you.

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment. 

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Join Lauren for The Conversation Circle beginning Monday 15th June.

This fortnightly small-group mentoring program is designed for interior designers, decorators and stylists who are ready to fast-track their business growth, gain clarity, and have the support and accountability to take action.

To ensure everyone receives personalised guidance and mentoring, the group is intentionally limited to just 6 designers. This creates space for meaningful conversations, individual feedback, and practical support tailored to your business.

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The Conversation Circle 2026 

Meet Clio And The Big Idea

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to Design Anatomy, the Interior Design Podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Brie Banfield.

SPEAKER_01

And me, Lauren Lee, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.

SPEAKER_02

With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces. We're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you.

SPEAKER_01

Today we're chatting with designer Cleo Fee Polly of Clio Interior Design. Cleo is based in Paris and I admire her work greatly.

SPEAKER_02

We're both excited to have this conversation. Oh sorry, Cleo. Over the top of you. We're super excited.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. Yeah, we love having conversations with people who are living literally on the other side of the world when it's your morning and it's our evening. Um, and doing amazing designs for international clients. And we're really excited to talk about the psychology of home and why the most successful interiors aren't about fans, which we also agree with, and that they're about understanding how people really live. Well, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_04

I'm very excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's cool. I was trying to think about how I sort of came to know you, and I think it was just really across Instagram, in the DMs, chatting back and forward, um, which is kind of cool, isn't it? I mean, I think people like to have a whinge about social media, but I mean, there's so many positive aspects as well.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, no, 100%. And I think like we all see the potential downsides of it, but I've you know built relationships through meeting people on Instagram as well. And you know, Insta we wouldn't be here if it wasn't through just randomly chatting when you were here last time uh for your for your design tour, and I realized you guys were at Pal Best Apet. And I reached out and all of a sudden we got into a conversation and now we're here.

SPEAKER_01

I know it's cool. So I was just curious before we get into all of the talk about your work. How are you going right now? What are you up to today?

SPEAKER_04

I've got a chat with you guys. Uh, we recently started a new project, which was about uh less than a week ago. Uh, we had the confirmation of another new project, which is an international project yesterday. A confirmation of a project that was waiting for building permits. Our clients texted me last night saying we have the approval, so that's going on. And we have yeah, yeah, so you know. Beginning of the year, everything's kick starting, and I'm also um being interviewed as a speaker on a round table event for design week in Paris this evening. So, you know, all systems go today.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a big day. A lot of talking. A lot of talking. That's great. Oh, so many varieties are a good thing, too. When I was um researching a little bit about you, I found that you grew up surrounded by artists and objects and architecture. Did you feel like, oh, it's inevitable that I'll fall into this kind of path, or did it take a bit of time to claim it as your own?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it took a good decade. It was not at all obvious. No, no, I had to go see it.

SPEAKER_01

Were you like fighting it?

SPEAKER_04

No, I wasn't fighting it, I just didn't see it. Like I was I actually had to do career coaching for someone to point me in the right direction to tell me maybe that's the path. And I was like, oh, and then I thought all my friends, I think I'm gonna get into interior design. And everyone's like, Yeah, that's that makes sense. And I was like, Well, thanks for letting me know, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly. Did you see this coach? Could have just asked you.

SPEAKER_02

So were you a bit stuck before that? Yeah, sorry, like what whet why did you decide

From Luxury Hospitality To Design

SPEAKER_02

to do that? Were you sort of a bit?

SPEAKER_04

No, I mean, I actually had a uh I had a and I was telling Lauren just before we jumped on, it was uh I had a career in luxury hospitality management. So I worked in in in this in this world and events as well. Um and it was a really fun career, and I loved the approach to service and customer service and high-end customer service, and so all of these parts of my job I really loved. But I was kind of at a transitional space where we were actually at the time living in Australia with my partner who is Australian, and we and I realized my next career move was really keeping on climbing the ladder and really starting to manage groups. Um, or there was something completely different. So I could feel I was missing something, and you know, through the career coaching, I realized there was lots that I loved about that job and the ever-changing days, and you know, being on the ground, talking with people and wanting to, you know, service people the right way. And I was missing the creativity, which I always had. And you know, I was working in a for a hotel group and I was redesigning the menus, redesigning the business cards, like you know, so like I was kind of like, you know, so like I could see there was a slight transition starting to happen, and then websites, and then you know, so uh interior design eventually showed up, and yeah, I'm I'm not too unhappy with being where I am today.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's good. Isn't it interesting? It's not always just such a linear path, is it? Like you were surrounded by, you know, art and architecture, um, and you've done a 360, you have to explore these other things. But I can imagine, you know, I think I read that you spent 10 years in luxury hospitality. There are so many crossover things um that you must have been able to take into interior design. So, can you give us a few examples? What what was some of those things that you think you learned that you could never really learn in design school?

SPEAKER_04

The first thing would probably be the approach to a luxury clientele. That would definitely be it. So, like, you know, when you work in five-star hotels and clients have a menu for the type of pillow down feathers that they would like to have for their stay. Like, you know, I was managing teams, and so obviously being able to manage people also is a good one. But um, so I was managing teams and you know, like the the clientele is a clientele to which you don't say no, you know. So you learn to frame things and you learn to, you know, if someone tells you I would like to have a milk bath, you tell them, Would you like it to be cow's milk or I'm a milk, ma'am, you know. So like, you know, it's about finding solution. No, they didn't. That's what I was trying to tell my staff, no is not the answer, you know. So I think it's about like finding roundabout ways to, you know, always being able to always problem solve and being able to to to to be able to be understanding to to the expectations of what a luxury clientele would be after. So that was very, very good. And then obviously being, you know, adaptative and being able to, you know, go with the flow with whatever's gonna happen, you know, which is always good on a construction site and throughout a project as well, which uh which uh which definitely crossed over and being able to stay sturdy straight in your boots and go, all right, what are we doing now?

SPEAKER_02

Thinking on your feet.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, managing people such a big part of it. And also, yeah, not being not saying no. It was funny. I had a um a client meeting and she said, Oh, something like, Oh, what about this tile? I said, Oh, okay. And she says, Oh, whenever you say, Oh, okay, that means no. How do I do that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I'm gonna remember that too when I'm talking to you about something and you go, oh, okay, I'll be like, hang on.

SPEAKER_00

I've done an address for tonight.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. I think it's oh yeah, or something like that that I say. I don't know, isn't it funny? Like she picked that up because she'll she might she's like, Yeah, I think I've um suggested X, Y, and Z and and you said, Oh, okay, and then it never appears in the drawings.

SPEAKER_04

I hear your opinion, but no. I think I think there's some of that. And then anyway. Um maybe also I think the fact that obviously working in in this world, you uh I worked obviously in a lot of um and some hearted restaurants and really busy high-end kitchens as well. Where you know it's the reality of of things that maybe uh s starting to change, I think, and I hope keeps on going like this, but they're very masculine worlds. Uh so being able to handle men and be able to be seen as a figure of authority sometimes in front of a crew of men, which I think also, you know, crosses over with the world of construction. Um, and you know, being able to know that, you know, as a woman, you you you can also hold authority and tell people how things should be done, and maybe, you know, even if you're always like here to listen to opinions and experts in their fields, but you know, working towards the same direction, which is either like serving uh having a good service for for for restaurant or having a great uh you know construction site for for a project, you know.

SPEAKER_01

What a what an interesting crossover, and it is something you just cannot learn through study. It's probably lived experience. And how how did you think you learned how to sort of manage people and come when you come up against that? Oh god, okay, now I've got to say that this is wrong and they've got to redo it. Like, is have you got any like did you have any mentors or did you have do you have any tips like how do you do that basically?

SPEAKER_04

Well, I never had any mentors, and I think if you ask my partner, I will probably tell you that it may be a bit within me. Have a bit of a apparently authoritative kind of attitude. Um, but yeah, no, I think it's like obviously there's personalities, I think, and and you know, you'll you'll be feeling more or less comfortable telling people what to do in life in general. Um, and I think it's it's all about learning diplomacy and being able to hear the person in front of you. So I think that obviously comes through being able to work with a lot of different people. So a lot of different people means a lot of different personalities. So being able to adjust and adapt and and just know that you're never the smartest person in the room, and it's always good to be able to take on, you know, whatever everyone else has to say, brainstorm, think, see what the best idea is, and just really just I think it all comes to problem solving, like going, like, you know, we if we're all in the same aim and we're all trying to achieve the same thing, like, okay, how do we get there? And if we disagree, then let's talk about it. Like, you know, let's see who's got the best approach.

SPEAKER_02

Listening is part of it, I think, and showing respect that even if you it's like you're saying, oh no, no, it's not right, and you have to kind of approach them and say that's not right, even just listening first so that they feel heard and there's a some, I guess, a level of respect, and then it's much easier to talk about the thing that needs to be fixed. And instead of and I think the other thing too is like not going fix this, it's wrong. It's maybe a discussion of how how could it be changed so that it's maybe a compromise or it still does what it's supposed to, whatever it is. So yeah, I love the problem solving aspect of it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, again, I think it's all diplomacy, just you know, coming in going like I feel like something's a little off here.

SPEAKER_00

Is it just me?

SPEAKER_01

Or asking why.

Managing Clients And Saying No Nicely

SPEAKER_01

I I you know, was is there a reason why that was like that? And then when you maybe hear their point of view, again, it's listening as you say, Brie, and you're like, Oh, I understand why you've done it like that now. But if you just go in and just be like, all guns are blazing, which doesn't really the defensiveness is what happens, right?

SPEAKER_04

Or yeah, and obviously you you guys know as well as well that sometimes there is like you know technical reasons why things change too completely. You know, there were there there were reasons behind it, or it couldn't be done, and I think it's all about communication. So if something can't be done in the way that we're expecting it on our projects, as much mean and both of you. I think it's like ahead communication is always the best going like before you build something that wasn't to plan, or like the idea like, okay, we have we're coming with a encountering an issue and we don't think we can do it, and then we try and that's when you try and like brainstorm and problem solve.

SPEAKER_02

And we all know that when you have that conversation, like before it's done, you usually end up with an even better outcome than when someone goes off and does what they think anyway, right? Or even what you thought. Sometimes it's a better result. Well, hopefully, usually it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So when you were transitioning out of hospitality and moving into design, was that like a scary move, or did it feel quite natural?

SPEAKER_04

Definitely felt like a big move. Uh also I think it was because we moved so much with my partner, and you know, we went from like at the time being in Australia to stopping by Paris, followed with him, my family, then we moved to London, and so London was kind of like where I started to transition, and we knew that London wasn't BR Forever home. And my partner being also half Swiss, we thought maybe moving to Switzerland, but then France. So, like, you know, so one of the reasons why I thought was a good idea was uh I, you know, being part of an international couple, I thought it would be a change, and also considering how much we had moved at this stage, being like about a continent every two years and moving our entire lives. Um I knew that it would be good for me to have a job in which the skill would follow me rather than just being able to be doing something set up. Um so I knew that I wanted to learn a trade, learn something that I was first passionate about, but also something that I knew I could do anywhere in the world. Um, and so that was that was kind of the linearity of how to do it. And I never ever thought of having my own business. Like that was never a dream that kind of fell upon me. Um, and so yeah, so I think it was just like opening the curiosity of going, like, okay, so what does that actually resemble working in interior design? And and back in the days, there was not as much resources, I find like you know, podcasts weren't as big. Um, there were like a few Facebook groups that I had find, which was like interior designers supporting groups in the US. Uh, there were like, I think there was one girl on YouTube doing like follow me as an interior designer. Like it was very, very limited to be able to realize what that world and what that job looks like. Yeah. And as you both very well know, you know, there's a hundred and ten ways to be able to charge your clients. There's like, you know, there's no linear path in inter design. So, like being able to kind of like understanding how that works. And do you want to work for someone? Do you try and get more into the technical aspect of drawings? Do you like you know what what's like so yeah? So I think it's just such a big, big world when you're transitioning into this one that really finding and honing what is it that really brings you joy and what what is it that you want to do every day? And with me was always like furniture and furnishings and like creating, you know, like environments and making people feel good in spaces, and obviously maybe having worked in so many, like lived in so many places and having had so many different homes, moving so many times, um, and worked in really high-end spaces, like I could see how you know it impacts how you live, how you interact with others, and like you know, so I think there's the psychology of it as well. So be being able to kind of like figure out what the path is supposed to be, that felt big, more than scary. Um, but but I think it all happened quite naturally, eventually.

SPEAKER_01

I like what you you said then about um being a digit being in a different space and different behavior. And I can imagine in in a hot in the hotel world, like you know, the way that the lobby is designed, the way that the rooms are designed, like you just feel different. Like um Bri and I, when we go to the Ace Hotel in Sydney, I feel cool and I'm definitely not cool, but that hotel makes me feel cool. So like quite incredible, like yeah, and and your experience of living all around the world. So um you said that you moved to Australia and you where did you live in Australia when you were here?

SPEAKER_04

So we first lived in Barrel, which is a town a few hours out of Sydney, for those that know in New South Wales. Um, and then we my partner had some family in Katoomba in the Blue Mountains, and that's where we were set up for most of our time there, which was a bit over two years at the time.

SPEAKER_01

That's great. So it's a bit off the beaten path of the usual come to Australia experience.

SPEAKER_04

Not so many bitches. Uh haven't done much surfing in barrel, let's just put it like this.

SPEAKER_01

It's really cool. And then you said you moved to London. So, how did you choose London?

SPEAKER_04

Well, because um my partner and I met in Paris, and at the time he was living in Malawi. So we had spent uh a bit over a year in Malawi prior to moving to Australia, and a lot of our connections and the friends that we had met over there were working for a lot of NGOs and organizations, uh, and a lot of them came from all over the world. They were obviously all sorts of nationalities, but a few of them were from the UK. Um, Malawi.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that too.

SPEAKER_04

And so and so the we had a bit of a of a of a point of contact with um with a few of our really good friends already. And my partner's mother is British, so he had a British passport. Um, and so we were able to go and live there. Obviously, at the time he was still part of the EU, so so could I. Um, and he's an English-speaking uh obviously, he speaks a bit of French as well, but uh, but it was easier for him to get a job and for me to be closer to my family. Obviously, London to Paris is uh is just uh uh a click away. So so so that was that was the decision.

SPEAKER_01

That makes a lot of sense. And did you study interior design in London? Or how did you sort of start in? Did you say that's where you sort of made that transition? So didn't do a lot of studying.

SPEAKER_04

I did a bit of an online course when I started that I started in Australia, then I stopped, and I kind of finished that, which was very like linear and like more bullet points than than actual teaching, so which I think is good for those that are curious. So, you know, it's like you know, history of architecture and 10 bullet points, you know, you're gonna have to open a few books yourself. So so there was that. And then again, I think it was through my experience of being so much on the ground and like you know, learning from doing. Um, so I reached out, I just basically told everyone, I'm gonna be an intuitive designer. So if you know anyone, I'm gonna be an intuitive designer. So, you know, so I kind of like, you know, said that to everyone. And I was working for a group at the time in London, and and one of the

Moving Countries And Finding A Path

SPEAKER_04

the general managers was like, wait, wait a minute, there was this girl that used to be one of the designer in the team of a big commercial group. Um, and she had gone on her own, and so she was, you know, being a solo designer, and he was like, I just met her for a drink with my girlfriend, and like and I told her about you, and she'd like you to reach out because she may need some help. So she was working on a jazz cafe and a few other things at the time. And so I just tagged along with her. So I was doing like full-day shifts with her, being like fully unpaid, and you know, just getting to learn on the ground and then starting my work shift uh in the restaurant at 6 p.m. till midnight and doing this like every day for seven days a week, and just like really getting on the ground and learning as much as I could, really. So so that's that's how it kicks up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, for sure. Hands-on, learn so much more, right? So you're straight straight into it.

SPEAKER_04

Did you guys go to did you guys both go to school for for injured design?

SPEAKER_02

I did, yeah. We're kind of we're actually pretty boring stories in terms of so boring. Yes, everyone goes, I did this and I did that, and then I was a psychologist or I was a doctor or something. No, we just stayed in Melbourne and went to school, started being designers. I mean, we can make it sound much more interesting than that, but not today. I've done lots of things since. I mean, I've stayed kind of in and around the industry, and I I didn't stay in interior design the whole time. Um you've been in different roles, haven't you, Lauren? Or have you pretty much stayed in interior design?

SPEAKER_01

Just interior design. Yeah. Interior design, didn't doing the diploma, doing the degree, working as a student, a graduate, an interior designer, starting your own business, like very uh textbook linear. But I think Brie, we've survived. That's you've made it. We're still going.

SPEAKER_02

For the moment, anyway. We'll I'll report back later. Do you think so?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was just curious, um, Cleo, with your experience, you know, different um, you know, different continents. Do you think people have a different sort of experience of how they relate to spaces they live in?

SPEAKER_04

I think so. Um, I think there's something that's probably uh a global emotional approach to to how we feel in the space. I think there'll be something that is probably cross-culturally completely the same for all. Uh, and that's where probably colour theories and things like this will come in play because I don't think that depends, depending on where you live in the world. But I think the the approach to space will very likely feel different to some than others, you know. Like I think I heard you guys talk about it in a in a podcast about how averaging the Australians have the biggest homes um in the world. And so, I say so your approach to space space and your understanding of, you know, you know, your your just even your own personal spatial awareness um in a space will be very different in an Australian home than in a Parisian apartment where the skills are very different, very different. You know, so I think I think your approach to how you feel within a space will make you feel in a in a good or in a bad way, I think could transition your approach in a different context. So, say, you know, like living, like the importance of the indoor-outdoor living. Say if you live in a place where obviously it's maybe warmer parts of the time of the year, or you know, like the the approach of like you know, the Higger concept in in Scandinavia exists because of the fact that they will be within, you know, uh inside homes most of the year compared to you know, someone living in Australia where, you know, the decks and the you know, indoor outdoor living. will be. So I I think all of these different approaches and different concepts are based on where you live and where or where you have lived or you know. And and the approach to interior I think very much varies in the same way, you know, like when it's summer you'd want to feel like a bit more open. And when it's winter it's nice to cozzy up around a fireplace, like wherever you are in the world. So I think there's this natural instinct that we may all have um based on the time of the year or the place in the world. And yeah, so I think it it does affect it.

SPEAKER_01

It's so interesting, isn't it? Just like the response inside to what's going on outside and how you live you know it's it's great, it's a great comparison as you say, you know, the Scandinavian countries being inside and that's why I think some of their interiors are just they're so good at living inside. And you know Australia can cartoon but I don't think it was all all that warm there though, is it?

SPEAKER_00

No summer's nice.

SPEAKER_01

Winter's a brutal chilly I think yeah maybe people have a perception I don't know if I'm I'm right or wrong but maybe the Aussies are just outside all the time surfboard underarm like running on down the beach or whatever. But you know and even in Australia different regions have different ways of living and um and I guess like from the French point of view when I was looking at running the book the new French look I was like how am I gonna how am I going to figure this out and it was basically in the regions you know a mountain house is so different to a prison apartment which is so different to somewhere on the the Basque coast or um where was the other one? Somewhere on the Atlantic Dave you are yeah the countryside like yeah it's just even in one country to see those different types of interiors the different ways of living but um yeah I suppose that's uh you know interesting the indoor outdoor living is is quite an Australian thing I think a hundred percent yeah um so you mentioned before that you are designing some international projects I don't know if you you can share but um how do you go about designing for international clients or do you you know you'd you'd be so well equipped to be able to well maybe I could put live live in your shoes for a minute to kind of understand how you want to live like because you've had so many different experiences.

SPEAKER_04

Well I think well if I think part of the reason is because most of our clientele here in Paris even for our Paris-based project are English speaking most of most of our clientele will be English speaking so you'll have people that have expatriated themselves here uh or people with pietataires or investment properties um and obviously the cross-cultural understanding of what it feels like to be an expat when I moved back to Paris after being pretty much for 10 years overseas I felt like an expat in my own city and I had been an expert somewhere else. Yeah I did it was it was very different after after spending so many years in so many different places with uh cultures very different to my own. So like you know I had to readjust and readapt and go okay well that's that's true. That's how the Parisians are like you know like I was like and and I think there's a there's this kind of like being able to understand a disconnect from what are the things that the reasons why you'll make decisions of coming and live into a place like Paris if you decide to set ground here or the reasons why you want to come here

Culture, Climate And How We Live

SPEAKER_04

many times throughout the year. And the same way like what are you missing from home? What are the things that made you feel good or safe or like what are the things that you know how can that be transported over obviously if it's just a meter squared and having walls much further away then that's something we can't necessarily help with but what are the things that you know made you feel good and what are the things that you feel like be nice to kind of inject within the project so I think this like approach to understanding the cross-cultural approach and our clients are very often multinational clients as well so they'll have multinationalities you know French and Chinese American and German Venezuelan and English like you know we we've had different nationalities then yeah yeah very much so and and so I mean a lot of our clientele is American um but not just we've had uh we we've had a a lot of different different nationalities coming coming across over the years and so I think the fact that that I had that personal experience obviously builds that connection and then obviously working from a project to the next these international clients obviously sometimes move away from Paris or like you know are here for a short period of time so you know I've worked on some projects in London from being here in Geneva um we're just um working now on a project on the Red Sea in El Guna in Egypt um where we're gonna help design a full landscape exterior a swimming pool interiors rooftops you know so so I think the clients that potentially also we've built trust with and you know the the projects that we've worked on you know sometimes they they'll take us uh with them uh wherever they buy secondary hubs or wherever they decide to relocate um and I think obviously there's the world of of Instagram which is you know not a real passion of mine but it's parts of our job and so you know with Instagram comes you know people understand a little bit your creative direction the kind of things that you're trying to do and the projects that you're working on and and people also reach out with that and go okay well that that that fits you know uh the type of people that are person that I would like to help me design my home and you know so I think it's it's that trust and also obviously the creative aspect um you know that that goes with it.

SPEAKER_01

You know we were talking before about managing a team do you how do you work internationally and how do trades work differently in different countries?

SPEAKER_04

Have you come across that um well for for construction you have different codes obviously so we we we don't like I mean it it's not it's not you know you'll have certain standards that will change that are you know some countries you'll have like you know a standard countertop height for a kitchen will be 90 and somewhere it's a hundred you know you know I think it's like there's a there's different types of things like this where you you know I think you you do the homework you go and check you know what's the big difference it also depends if we're helping with you know layout planning and furniture only if we're involved with you know creating technical plans for things to be you know like for for the uh for the Red Sea house we're gonna do technical documentation so obviously they're gonna be pouring concrete on an entire landscape um so and you know building you know we've got electrical plans to do plumbing plans and all and all the rest so we do we do our background research and then obviously we have an open conversation with the clients and the trades uh and then be able to understand to make sure that things are understood the the same way um you know like if it's the the matter of an icon on uh the type of icons that you have on an electrical plan we can adjust that like an American electrical plan doesn't look like a European electrical plan and potentially not the same in Australia you know so so it's I think you're just being able to ever evolve and adapt and know with the team you're working with. And again communication is key so I think it's it's really the the thick of it.

SPEAKER_02

It really isn't it that must be so challenging working overseas and just managing everything and emails and can we think about and even just like the fact that I hadn't even thought about the fact that there'd be different icons and things on documentation of course there would be the same but I just hadn't even really occurred to me inches versus metric like I see that would try that would actually do my head in yeah I haven't worked in inches so lucky for me our clients have come from for from the US but I mean we will not shy of a of an American project one day and you know there's not there's nothing one can't learn. So I think you know if one I guess once you've done it once you know you can do it and it's maybe makes it a little bit easier the next time or you know what to look for the next time too it's the same with anything I suppose that's open to my mind thinking about the different icons now I know well I think it's it's a it's a it's a type of language that you understand how to read anyway.

SPEAKER_04

So your brain's trained for that so you just try and go like okay wait a minute okay what matches what and once you once you've got it it's like riding a bike I think.

SPEAKER_01

Is there somewhere in the world that you would like to design a space?

SPEAKER_04

Hmm I think it's potentially due to the connection that I have but I'd be really interested in doing a place in Africa um and that could be in French Africa or English Africa English speaking Africa obviously um and you know I have a lot of connections through through international organizations and people that I used to know and and and be friends with and and I have a feeling like you know anywhere throughout Europe you know like obviously Switzerland is a stones far away same with London same with Italy Spain like you know so I feel like this will potentially naturally kind of happen. And you know some of our clients also live in Dubai and and the US also is a logical connection so I feel like it's more if I were to to try and stretch something that would be a little bit different and and and potentially could be for like a collective space or for an NGO or something like this. I think it would be really nice to be able to to to to bring in interior design and and my very warm memories of of what spaces felt like over there and how we could implement something um let's manifest that that sounds amazing so many already so many great projects it'd be hard to decide where you want to go next right Antarctica she hasn't done a project there yet underwater in space how about how about you girls if you could choose somewhere to to do a design where what would it be if it wasn't to in Australia I want to say Italy that's my immediate but then I'm like I haven't really thought it through that's just my immediate thought just because I I love it there.

SPEAKER_02

But um and I'd love I think I'd love to do like a Milanese apartment. I think that would be pretty amazing. Yeah I could see you doing that that'd be good. Yeah I also feel like um it would be hard like if I did like an apartment in Paris like the benchmarks so high like I want to go somewhere that the design's really bad like a developing country or something and you come and you go look at this and they're like wow they really need some help here um actually you can probably that's probably certain um countries that just have really bad taste that's very good just like sure good we'll talk about that afterwards we won't mention any just two case we just know there's none of the scandies are involved yes exactly yeah yeah um I like and um so I I mean I just want to um just so everybody who's listening knows actually

Designing For International Clients

SPEAKER_02

obviously coming from hospitality have you worked on a lot of hospitality projects in Sam or is that mostly residential?

SPEAKER_04

So it's mostly been residential so when I when I transitioned into the into the the field in the UK I did obviously as I was saying work with that designer and and I had spent so long into this world that you know obviously can my brain figure out a really good layout for a restaurant so that it's functional for the staff so that you have a maximum spend per head on table so that yes that was not the question. I think I just really needed to have the break so when you know when I you know like have a very functioning back bar yes that's great but again I I had spent so much of my time and years in that environment that I needed to do homes. Like I really wanted to really challenge in something different like 100% and I think like you know there was like for a long time I was like I'm not even opening the the the book of doing a commercial project a retail project I was like I want to do homes I want to work for people I want to I want to understand the stories I want to be able to tell the stories through the interiors and support their lifestyle and help them grow in a beautiful environment and you know and so there was there was very very strong connection to that. And so we did a commercial space which is the one that we did in in Polbert which kind of came about because the client reached out to us because we had connections through the receiving warehouse that they had and and I realized that we had a lot of creative freedom and it was a very different approach to interior design and it was also a very interesting way of designing and and there was a a lot of the customer experience which kind of brought me back to my days and obviously some of the expertise that I had in a in a different particular field at the time and and do I want to jump into doing restaurants and hotels right now? I'm not saying it won't happen but it's not necessarily something that I I really you know I'm gonna try and push but I realized that I love the aspect of doing a space that on paper could have been something rather simple. We worked for Packing and Shipping International fine art company and you know we looked at the competition we looked at what those spaces look like and very often you'll have you know a globe and a plane on the front window and you'll have cardboard boxes inside the space and they just tell you very explicitly we pack and we ship. And and the fact that we approached the the the aesthetic of the space to tell a different story and to have such a visual impact I think was more so like the challenge that I had in accompanying our clients so that their customers would have such a different experience that they could see in other packing and shipping companies I thought was so interesting in a strategy standpoint that linked into your designs to the brand that we're working for. And so that approach I liked and obviously it was in a very curated way it was in an incredible location the Paul Bertherpet market. So you know so I think there was there was this approach which made me open my mind to going like okay well maybe some retail some commercial or offices but you know high-end offices you know so so I think you know the the doors open now I've I've opened it it's not shut anymore I've opened it uh but m most of our work will still stay probably residential.

SPEAKER_01

I actually didn't realize that it was a packing and shipping I thought it was an actual design uh you know vendor within the market because it looks so incredible I'm just on your Instagram so if if you're listening and you're curious just um go onto Instagram Clio Interior Design and I think the the thing that I'm obviously obsessed with that colour that old gold mustard I love it too just absolutely beautiful and this gorgeous red uh rusty coloured carpet that you've used so this is a packing and shipping company so when somebody has purchased purchased something from the Paul Bert market they can come in and figure it out oh amazing yeah so we're gonna go there with you yes I'm very excited if you got anything to pack or anything to hoping to have things to pack and ship when we visit right and we're hoping that our lovely guests that are with us will also purchase things to pack and ship I like people to buy so I can be doing it vicariously through them. Exactly it's like oh this will be so lovely in that project go on buy it yeah we egg each other on oh it's stunning so um would you mind telling us a bit about you know you you talked about I can imagine as you said it was just so perfect the big map of the world on the wall and yeah that's what these but you've taken a tone making me think like Pan Am style or something. You've obviously the location calls for something that speaks to designers so how did you kind of land on this kind of well colour scheme and even choosing the pieces for the space?

SPEAKER_04

Well so basically the way that this all kind of happened was those um so we used uh our clients Welfine art um for our own projects so we used to they are receiving company they do all our logistics and white love delivery for our projects so we we had work on a few projects together and one day the the owners reached out to me and told me hey Cleo we worked on a few of your projects we just got ourselves a new location on the Polbert Sapet market would you like to help us design it? Cool you can imagine I was happy to receive that email and also I was like well that sounds like fun and and like and my brain didn't go two ways about oh well that's commercial that's not residential I had a very personal emotional connection with the market because my dad was a a merchant on the market as well. So he hadn't been a merchant for many years and he had left us a few months prior to that. And so there was a a very direct kind of synergy with those clients as well um and and some of the merchants on the market know me since I was like four years old. So there was a kind of a full circle thing. So like I was like okay well this is you know the universe is telling you just go about and do it. Yeah totally so we obviously realized that when they contacted us to do a space they they were after a space that was going to tell a bit of a story. So you know if you were wanting to do you know the world map and the cardboard boxes you wouldn't have reached out and so there was something that obviously they would have liked through the interviews we had done. And so we basically knew that I mean I I just had a a bit of a not an epiphany that's a bit much but like you know I was thinking about the project and I knew that it needed to be obviously like responding to a to a basic need which which was to serve their clients the way that they needed to do it. So packing and shipping company they needed to do shipping quotes for designers, for merchants, for passerby but I knew that based on the location we had something different to do. So the idea was that we wanted to like really approach something differently and I had a this concept idea which was gonna put out all my standardized process out of the window because we like things to be running the same with projects and you know things have an order. And I decided to just put it all in the bin and go, how about we approach something differently so because we were obviously working for a company and you know they may not want to spend you know 55,000 euros on a sofa and 2000 on a pen at night and you know but you are within a market that will sell this type of merchandise. And we wanted them to be able to have this authority on the market and for their clients to understand that the space that they have and they receive their clients in care for the same type of items and furniture that these clients will ship. So basically wanted to represent a little bit

Codes, Drawings And Global Teams

SPEAKER_04

the ecosystem of the market as well and I told them like how about we look at having some fixed pieces but what do you think about letting us do curations of the merchants of the market and putting some of those pieces on show um and creating a living space. So this would be like and that was a like I hadn't tried and tested it. I didn't know if it was going to work I didn't know if merchants were going to say yes to the idea like it was not done before so so it was something that was like let me pitch it to you tell me what you think the you know the it was a um a father and son ran company and both of them were really on board with the idea and the idea was really to create this kind of virtuous cycle circle in the market so that you know we we did cartels and on the cartels you have like the name of the merchants and the pieces that's on loan and and so they and the alley that they're based on. And so there was this kind of like gallery feel um and obviously like also really help create an open conversation. So you know people come into the space and the space changes and evolves with time. So those pieces are on show and on loan but they're also for sale so you'd come and you know you'd bought a lot of beautiful pieces on the market you go and sit down on the sofa and you go well what this coffee table's for sale let's add it to the list. You know like I'll take this one too makes sense you might as well you're filling a container if you've got to cube left in room that we can get one more because um on the on your Instagram I can see there's this image and it's got these kind of like niches cut out is that what you mean as well there's um an opportunity for those smaller pieces to be displayed from different so yeah so the vendors and so to give you a bit of an idea so in the space the only fixed pieces that we have are the kitchen table downstairs and chairs so the reception space where the basically the team works every day the desk and the desk chair upstairs and the two sofas so the big sofa in the main space and the one under the the mezzanine which we've drawn uh ourselves and and then everything else is on rotation so the we obviously had to adapt ourselves to a space that existed it used to be uh a little coffee shop before and a few merchants had inhabited the space but it's one of the only houses that doesn't have uh open window so it's always been difficult for those antique merchants being in there for people to go in and know that there's a wider space upstairs because passerbys will pass by you know so yeah so the fact that it was for a different type of company it it made it that it was possible to to use the space so originally we were supposed to do a very light refresh and some decoration and as things went and concepts developed we went a little bit more into renovation but the structure of what those niches are is actually holding up a little mezzanine that's that's above where obviously there's now storage and things like this. And we weren't gonna undo the mezzanine and it had a it had a a bit of a different look so we wanted to make it a little bit more curated so we created openings But we kept the entire structure. And I said, and that was one of the first things that came to mind when I saw those niches. I was like, this is like display galor. Let's let's have all these beautiful items and sculptures and elements. And so everything within the niches are loans from the clients, from the merchants. It's really clever, it's beautiful. And everyone kind of like turns over. So you have new new merchants, some landing one piece, some have a couple, and then things turn around and then and except who manages who who decides what's gonna go in there next. So there's a bit of a con conversation. So we we did a first curation and then we passed on basically the way that we we designed the space and decided on the color palette and the material and the metal accents and things like this. We we kind of made sure that there was a grounding space. Obviously, there's a a very clear aesthetic within the space. But but then what happens is you know, we we have like brass and chrome accents. So again, there's this flexibility with the type of pieces that can come. We have some black accents, yeah, we have some dark woods, we have like you know, so so you uh there is the flexibility of everything being able to kind of obviously not everything and anything, but different eras to be able to be mixed in and different.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because I'd be always worried that they were gonna put like you'd go like what are you doing? These don't work in here or something like that. There's a bit of trust there, right? It's they're a packing and shipping company, and there's a possibility. There is a possibility.

SPEAKER_00

So far so good.

SPEAKER_02

Do they ever check with you and go like uh so far so good? Okay, but they're making the decision like based on uh like a like a brand look book that you've kind of almost developed for them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think that colour, that colour you've chosen, how do you describe that colour? That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_04

How do you describe that one? It's a it's a warm one. It looks peachy to me, yeah. A warm, pitchy yellow, um very manila thing, like a manila folder.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a little bit, yeah. I think that's a good way.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and um it's a little bit more caramel.

SPEAKER_02

Um well, have is it a whipped honey? Whipped honey, yeah, kind of thing. Isn't that gorgeous? Yeah, I feel like every time I try and describe colours, it's always about food.

SPEAKER_01

So I sort of I was talking to a client today because we want to do a sofa in a colour like that. I think they called the colour tobacco, and I sort of see it as a neutral, like it's a strong colour, but I feel like it goes with so many colours. So I feel like it's a smart choice to layer pieces on that you might not have chosen yourself. Yeah, no, definitely.

SPEAKER_02

Tobacco is a much dark I might not be seeing it properly on screen. Is it are you talking about the wall colour of the one you just showed?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, there's

Dream Locations And Future Work

SPEAKER_01

there's I there's yeah, yeah, that's a bit more tobacco. Yeah, so there's a there's downstairs, which is that richer colour, and then upstairs. Beautiful and yeah, it's a bit more buttery upstairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stunning.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and I mean we we knew that I mean the space in itself, so the house itself was a house that was built by someone called Christian Sapé, and Christian Sapé is a bit of an institution in the world of cinema because he used to be one of the deep on the merchants that a lot of uh scenographers from the French cinema for the last decade and still still works today. He the scenographers would come to him with scenes from their movies going, like, what do you think? And he'd go about and source and and and and do this, help the scenographers and do the yeah, and uh so he still it still has a space now, and it's still one of the biggest uh people renting for cinema these days. And so we knew that this space obviously held a lot of cinema history, so we knew that the space was not gonna be a white box, you know. Like I think I'm preaching to the choir here, what I'm saying, you know, colours like tell the story. Yeah, and so we knew it was gonna be like warm and welcoming, but also a bit theatrical. We knew we wanted to take that extreme and just really create a mood. Um so you know, we wanted to, you know, I think I think I saw that you guys actually called an emergency episode when Panton dropped the colour of the year. Don't get us started. I won't get you restarted, but yes, I think like I think most, if not all designers kind of like, you know, were a bit outraged with this. But so yeah, so I think like the this is where this is where the entire concept like started with the colour story and the material palette, and so and from then onwards we we like directed how to build and how to you know draw the patterns we did on the custom rug that we did upstairs.

SPEAKER_01

And I know that was my next question. The pattern on the carpet, the custom rug. Yeah. How did you how did that evolve? That well, so it's a linear sort of and it's got these half semi-circles on it, I I think I saw it's really graphic and yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Well, basically we had a bit of a of neo-art deco kind of kind of inspiration, and and we looked at a lot of motifs, and I was going through some of my books, and I have a ton of vintage design magazines and tons of like history of design and things like this. And so I was going through my Eileen Gray book. Um, and she had designed a um a uh screen, like a screen divider, um, so paravent. Um, and there's some of these lines and some of the motifs that we inspired ourselves from. There was a like basically a mix of this kind of like lines from Eileen Gray and a incredible elevator art deco door that I found from um um, I think was um uh an American uh not mall, but like big uh big store. Uh there was an art deco incredible door, and some of these lines and motifs we kind of like pulled out, and I started drawing the bits that I liked and how it worked and stuff like this. And then me and one of my staff just like printed out a big big layout of what we were, and we started like we had all our icons and all the motifs we like to do, and we like four-handed drew this whole button and then went down the stairs, and yeah, yeah. It's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01

Magic, that's so cool. How creative, and that would be fulfilling to sort of reference those and put them back in that space. It's sort of yeah, that's amazing. How fun!

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, it was a lot of fun, definitely.

SPEAKER_01

So, I guess on the topic of the flea markets, do you incorporate vintage pieces into your own projects?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean, we love to, like, obviously, this is what we feel like make a space feel a bit different, um, and being able to kind of create a uh a bit more of a layered look, you know, like obviously everyone spends their time on on Instagram or Pinterest, and obviously there is ton of great inspiration there. Like, I'm not one to necessarily like bow down on Pinterest because we obviously use that too for for imagery research. Um, but I think there is there is something to be said with Instagram and influences and like spaces that feel like collected but somehow flat, if that makes sense. Predictable, yeah. And and I think being able to incorporate vintage within within projects makes that you know you can very much like have a a space that could be as minimal as you'd want or as maximalist as you'd want, and and this will create layers, this will create the point of interest, this will kind of like hold the room, and and this is this is what we love about vintage, you know. So this is this is where we you know have clients telling us like the one of the latest projects we we started. Um we did a bit of an inventory of what kind of pieces had to go after the renovation was within. So we'll obviously discuss new furnishings, but there was this beautiful little like architectural, sculptural, tiny chair in a corner of their room. And it was one of the first things I had seen on the photos that she had sent to me prior to me coming to her house, and she was like, I was like, I love that chair. And she was like, you know what? I actually bought it at Polbert 20 years ago, and I was like, haha. Oh wow. So I think there's that, you know, the the the the peace will tell our story, you know, like and and and I don't know, it's it's something that we love doing and and you know, with uh more or less

The Paul Bert Project Story

SPEAKER_04

scale, obviously, depending on the budget, depending on the clients. And we have you know clients that just love vintage and love, you know, the created look and you know, build on, build, on, build, and obviously everything needs to have its own voice and you know create the right amount of tension in the room. But you know, some people will be more happy to have like you know, the vintage light, the vintage this, and you know, just like kind of like more like collected little bits and pieces to tell a story. Um, obviously it all depends on the aesthetic of the project as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's um I feel like in France, from what I could tell from from researching, every project had uh something old in it. I mean, obviously the fabric of the building itself is most often old. But you know, in Australia, I feel like um my mum's generation, it was get rid of everything old and have modern and sleek and shiny and new. And so um, but I feel like in France, do you think people hold on to family heirlooms more and live with things to pass down, or is that just a nice story I like to tell myself?

SPEAKER_04

Romanticize, you know? No, uh yeah. I I think you got a point here, and I I think there's I think there's parts of like obviously, and these are you know, like so so associated movements of like you know, what may have happened, you know, in in that generation that you were talking about with your mom. But I feel like vintage or antiques are so heavy, heavily part of the French culture that we all grew up with either an antique in someone's family or more, or vintage pieces. And so I feel like there is this heritage inheritance uh of pieces being passed down. So it feels more like it's it's something that's part of the family or parts of the story of what an interior tells, which is like I think a comfortable thinking. Like it's it's that comfort, it's that comfort piece. It reminds you of your grandma or your dad had this at home. You know, so I think there's this kind of like very natural way of living with antiques and vintage in French, in French culture. I think it's just like you're you're used to you'll go to you know your friend's parents' house or your you know your your friend's houses and things like this. And and interviews are so collected and so like you know, not that telling the story of the people. Like they will all have brought back something, bought something at an auction, or or you know, I mean, not everyone, obviously, but I feel like it much more it's much more within the environment of one growing up, regardless of if it's more antique or if it's more vintage. And I feel like maybe the English-speaking world, there it's a bit more about the story. So wanting to find a piece, knowing its provenance, knowing what's the era, where does it come from, like knowing that you know you have this kind of like story to tell with that piece rather than just, oh yeah, I grew up with that thing, and like this has been in my family for the last 60 years. You know, I think it's it's more about the curation of the item and how it still makes a space sing, but in a different emotional approach to the object, I would say.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for sharing that. I think it's really interesting too that um, yeah, and I think I I mean that's how I imagined it would be. Um, and I think that and I don't know whether it's just to do with uh obviously Australia being I guess a much younger country and countries that are more sort of steeped in history just have more attachment to things and and maybe place more importance on vintage pieces. But to to your point before, Lauren, about like saying your mom's generation, I think it's still now. I think that we live in a bit of a bubble of you know designers and people that maybe appreciate those things. I I would say most of my friends that aren't in the design world would probably not have vintage pieces in their home. You're right. So I think it's still a very Australian thing to have new things and to covet new things and not place a lot of value on old things. Or maybe there's a lot of people who like, you know, look for bargains or marketplace and stuff like that. But then there's still just so many people just they just want new. They don't necessarily want to hold on to things or or even search out the ones with the story.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. It's so much easier to go online, click, click, click the next day it's on your doorstep. My my daughter, she wants a desk for her room and she's obsessed about this desk from IKEA. I'm like, there are enough desks that exist in the world that we do not need to buy something from IKEA, but she's like, it's got this drawer and this, oh, anyway. But yeah, I mean, it's just that so easy. And I I need to invest some time in sourcing.

SPEAKER_02

And if anyone's listening and they've got a desk looking for you, yeah, and you're right, it is about that instant culture, you know, that instant gratification culture, because it does take time to find the right vintage piece, especially if you're looking for something in particular. And I think I'll get the search for a great vintage piece is the same as looking for artwork. So you don't just necessarily find the right artwork straight away. You might go, oh, I kind of like that. But there's a feeling, there's an attachment you get when you buy artwork well for yourself to have in your home to bring you joy. There's a little spark that happens when you find the right piece, and I think vintage is the same. So it's an investment in time, right? To find the right pieces, anyway.

SPEAKER_01

I know I think unless you live in Paris and you go to Paul Burn every day. Like go you walk past, you get your coffee, you buy your vintage, and you're doing it every day. I was thinking, like in your contract. No, with your contract with the company, you should have put in a clause that every time you visit, if there's something that you buy, then they need to cover it because you they're making you go. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

But you know, I think you got a point, like the instant gratification of today's world is definitely something that will potentially stop parts of you know society wanting to invest in the time or invest in someone that would take the time. Obviously, this is why also people book, you know, our services collectively. It's it's people that you know outsource because they know they want the story to exist. It's just people that don't have necessarily have time. Um, like I find like, as you said, it takes the time. And I mean, the the whole curation of the pieces we had to do for our project on Polbear was obviously, as I said, like all processes out of the window because obviously some of the pieces that we were curating were from the merchants on the market, and that's their job to sell their pieces. So we couldn't put places like pieces on hold for months whilst the construction was happening. So to give you an idea, the curation of every moving pieces and the niches had to happen within the last two weekends prior to opening. So I had about three days for sourcing, four days really, um, and being able to find the right pieces. And and as you said, like sometimes it takes time. Some pieces, obviously, I had seen before going, like if this is not sold, I'm putting my hands on it. I had told the merchants and things like this. But things come and go, you know. So there was also like you get surprised as well sometimes. And I think that's one of the things that you gotta really keep keep in mind whenever you're looking for for for vintage or something like this. Like, also like always be ready to like get surprised by something you're really not looking for. You know, like I think some of the best pieces that we found were things that all of a sudden you turn around and you go, like, oh, I was looking for like a very different finish and stuff like that, and all of a sudden you go, That piece is perfect. I just said like that's the thing that sparks joy. That's the that's the thing that will give you an emotional connection straight away. And so, you know, I think it's if you know that you have this open-mindedness, unless you know your client asks you for a particular piece from a particular designer from a particular era, then if you have that open-mindedness, you you you'll be able to like you know, keep your eyes open and just get surprised by the by the bits that will come at you.

SPEAKER_01

You know, enjoy the journey. That's it. Yeah, it's part of the fun.

SPEAKER_00

It can be a long journey sometimes, so you still need to be able to be on, but yes, totally.

SPEAKER_01

And um, I guess in some ways, you know, for somebody's home, I don't think it should really end, you know. Life changes, lifestyles change, like it's evolving, and that's but yeah, when it comes to a project, sometimes you're like, is this project ever gonna end? No, that's true. That does happen.

SPEAKER_02

You want it to end for you.

SPEAKER_00

That's a that's it.

SPEAKER_04

And then it goes on. No, but I think I think that's part of the thing, and and I think it could be about you know, educating somehow, you know, people or clients. And I think like that's part of the education that we do also with people that get curious about our jobs and and and how we deal with things. And I think it's it's reminding people that yes, sometimes you're gonna need something, you know, on Amazon Prime and need it to be delivered yesterday, like, you know, because there's an emergency and you don't have time to get to the store. Sometimes you can just go to the store, and like, you know, obviously life is made of very different variables, but very much I feel like you know, there's more and more of a disconnect in the world with people's relationship. And I'm a strong people person. I love to meet people, I've always been like that. And and obviously, social media is a thing that you know, kind of I think can kind of keep people within their own world sometimes, and even the younger generation, but not just. And and that's why I say to to my team and to the people when I say, yes, I'm saying some stuff is gonna take longer, and you know, and we charge a flat fee for our design services, so I know I will take longer than what I potentially charge a client, but I like to source from people, not from platforms. I like to be able to make sure that I keep this living connection because what I've realized with like, you know, the the relationships that I've built with merchants, for example, the as I said, like some of them that I've known for a long time, and some of them that, you know, have you know, relationships have built, and same goes with gallerists and things like this. Like, what happens with these relationships, especially if you're looking for particular pieces or if you need to like create a uh a particular feel for your for your project and you don't yet know exactly what you want, but you have uh you know, like a material in in mind or a shape in mind, having this relationship with these dealers and especially on Polvert Serpet, like we have we have now access to some of their warehouses or off-market pieces. Uh, you know, I can like tell them like you know, they'll have their booths and their stores, but you know, I'll have access to more of their stores and more of their mind because I know them. So cool, you know, and so like oh and so like you know, so even like you know, if they're gonna want to do a clearance and do like a turnover of their stock, like we'll be parts of the first ones to know, like you know, and so like these relationships will make you be able to have like a much wider array of like just what's on first tips or what's on you know the platforms or things like this. And and you know, when we start a project, if I call up a few of my merchant friends and I tell them, okay, I'm on this kind of vibe, I'm in something a bit mid-century, I'm looking

Colour, Carpets And Art Deco Cues

SPEAKER_04

for uh a big uh cupboard for the for the entry of my clients. It's gotta be about this big, well only at a concept now, but if you have something coming up and and also and pieces of text, you know, I'm clearing this, I've got this on auction, does this interest you? And and you know, it just keeps the real life connections happening and and what trading used to be, you know, not just a click on a click on a basket.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, how wonderful! That's so great. Exactly. Um, you just you bit when you said mid-century, then it made me wonder do you have an era that you have a soft spot for? I know.

SPEAKER_04

Um I think it really changes with time. Like I have a bit of a British face at the moment, um, but I love I love mid-century. Um I love 60s, 70s, 80s, no. Like it's yeah, it's it's very dependent on it. I love it all. I I love it all. Yeah, I love it all. Like, yeah, 20s, 30s, like yeah, it's it's this too much love.

SPEAKER_00

That's too much beautiful design.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I think we can say in a bit of a a shit screen kind of way, I love the piece, not the era. Yeah, a hundred percent. Does that make sense? You know, like how he goes, I love the um wine, not the label. Am I making sense? I love it.

SPEAKER_04

It's so poetic. I like it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I mean, sometimes it's yeah, and it's also the label. I just love that piece, but I don't know what the label is. I don't mind. It's just something speaks to you. I don't know, it's more important anyway.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and I feel like that's kind of what may be happening as well in in in today's kind of like stepping away from what trends are, but like I feel like there's a bit of a move towards something that's a bit less decorative and a bit more architectural objects or architectural pieces. And then I was wondering, we were talking about this the other day with someone in my team, and we're wondering like, does it have to do with the fact that I feel like stylists are getting a lot more visibility these days? And like obviously always kind of had their importance, but I feel like the world of Instagram made it that the stylists have their role fully, and obviously interior designers and and decorators have their roles. But with the whole editorial scenes and and you know, magazine publications, the architectural piece, the people realizing that things that will like make a change in what a beautiful interior could be, if it's just an interior architectural firm or something like this, or would have just done the standard furnishings. You see how certain pieces can really make a space by being a little different. And and and I feel like people are a bit more drawn to pieces that are a little bit harder to recognize, like because of the influencer world and the you know, famous Instagrams, and you know, you'll have like, oh well, this is a you know, tra like you know, trendy sofa now. And you know, I feel like it it loses a bit of authority when it's been. like talk to the phone. And it doesn't mean the piece isn't good. It just means that people kind of like push away from that, going like, okay, well, what's a piece that nobody has? What's gonna make my space feel very different rather than just looking like it's you know um you know something that just becoming suddenly popular be you know you you want something that has presence, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Well I think you know the Togo sofa is an example of that. Like the Togo is like the weirdest looking sofa this weird low ruchy thing. When you first see it you're like that's weird but you don't even think that now because it's so overdone dare I say that it has lost some of its authority as an alcoholic design piece which is sad. But maybe that's a conversation for another day because you have a big day. Yeah I know and we have I've so enjoyed our chat and I can't wait to meet you with our group um at the flea markets in April. So um I just can't think of a better person to show us around the flea markets. It's going to be absolutely incredible it'll be your world basically and we're just in that yeah yeah and yeah I mean the advantage is we all kind of work in the same industry.

SPEAKER_04

So you know if anyone's sourcing for certain things, you know, let me know ahead of time and I may do a bit of pre-scouting because I do go through some of the projects.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah together it's delicious. I'm very excited and so excited to meet you in person obviously too it'll be great. It'll be really fun. Thank you Cleo for coming on and joining us and taking your time over the other side of the world.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you for staying up late for me. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks Clio thanks Cleo we've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation they're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.