Design Anatomy

Inside Studio Gemma: Humour, Hinges, And High-Impact Joinery

• Bree Banfield and Lauren Li • Season 3 • Episode 1

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Ever wonder why some rooms feel irresistible the moment you touch a handle or close a door? We sit down with Gemma from Studio Gemma, the mind behind the Joinery Edit, to explore the tactile side of interiors—where hinges, board sizes and finish choices quietly decide how your home lives every day. It’s a joyful, candid tour through craft and practicality, with a healthy dose of humour and hot takes on the tiny design decisions that make a massive difference.

Gemma shares the origin of her cheeky, high-signal emails and how they morphed into a trusted resource for clients and designers. We dig into the real cost levers that blow up budgets—oversized boards, unnecessary profiles, and construction methods that don’t match the brief—and how to design smarter without sacrificing character. You’ll learn why coloured internals beat white melamine, when an olive knuckle hinge turns cabinetry into furniture, and how to coordinate services so aircon grills stop hijacking your sightlines.

We also broaden the lens: London’s millwork culture vs Australia’s defaults, the fear of pattern and the myth of “resale-safe” grey, and the quiet tragedy of heritage homes giving way to cookie-cutter duplexes. Gemma champions hand-painted finishes with visible brushstrokes, natural materials that age with grace, and rooms that hold personality—because houses sell best when people fall in love with them. Along the way, we laugh about painter opinions, energy drinks on site, and the art of choosing once and moving forward with confidence.

Check out Studio Gemma & The Joinery Edit. 

Follow along on her gorgeous Insta page too @_studiogemma_


If you’re craving interiors that feel as good as they look, this conversation will sharpen your eye and embolden your choices. Subscribe, share it with a design-obsessed friend, and leave a review telling us the one detail you’ll never compromise on.

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment. 

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Join Lauren online for a workshop to help break down pricing & fees for 2026! You'll learn: 

  • What has worked for Lauren over the past year
  • What hasn’t worked, and what she has changed
  • The exact fee structure Lauren now uses across all projects

For more info see below

The Pricing Shift: How I Structure My Fees in 2026.

Meet Gemma And The Joinery Edit

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Lauren Lee.

SPEAKER_01

And me, Bree Bantfield, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.

SPEAKER_02

With a shared passion for joyful, colour field and lived-in spaces, we're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you. And today we have a very cool and a somewhat joinery-obsessed designer joining us. It's Gemma of Studio Gemma and the Joinery Edit. Welcome to the Design Anatomy Podcast, Gemma. Hey Gemma. Hello, thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. I was trying to remember how I first got to know you, and I think it was just following you on Instagram and just really enjoying all of the fun content that you put out there. Well, it's kind of fun, but it's also very um informative as well. So, and then we sort of chat in the DMs and stuff, so that's really nice.

SPEAKER_00

And we we chatted a lot about the mushroom murderers as well, didn't we? We did.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, Lauren was a bit of an expert, weren't you, Lauren?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I think Gemma and I were we were we were pretty tuned into it on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, you were listening to the to the podcast, weren't you? The one that was coming out each each day.

SPEAKER_00

I was every day. Yeah, at night time I'd wait till nine o'clock to have a listen. So sad.

SPEAKER_02

It took us, it just took us on a whole journey.

SPEAKER_01

I'm waiting for the although they've released something, but I reckon they'll do a proper like mini-series or something, won't they? Surely I think they will.

SPEAKER_00

It depends on a retrial though, I think. So she wasn't. Was there a retrial? I think she's trying to, isn't she? Isn't she trying to oh like appealing? Appealing. So if they appeal, if it's if it's trying to yeah, I would imagine they can't do anything until they see it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, they would be definitely yeah. Yeah, and I don't know you at all, Gemma. Hi.

SPEAKER_03

Hi.

SPEAKER_01

But I think But we've had fun so far before we've even started recording. We've been we have fun.

Finding A Playful Voice In Design

SPEAKER_02

I don't I was saying to Bree, I was like, oh, we're gonna be speaking to Gemma. This is gonna be fun. This is gonna be easy. And I guess, like, you know, if you're listening, you probably know um Gemma from her Instagram, but also your emails are very famous because you Oh, are they? Yeah. I mean, I um I have to say, I'm I'm like, if I if I subscribe to your emails, I feel like I'll be um too influenced and I'll just like regurgitate all your good content and make it put my name on it. So I'm like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna. But people talk about your emails and they share their your emails on social media. I have to say no one does that.

SPEAKER_01

So I think it's because it's really impressive.

SPEAKER_02

Totally, and people are so excited by it because I think you oh that's cool, you share these incredible interiors, but you do it with a sense of humor, and I really feel like that's missing in our industry. Like your Instagram bio, it says pleasure seekers whose love language is joinery. And I was like, that's so I love that. It's just so, it's just so different.

SPEAKER_01

Genre that we're that we're missing on particular adult websites, pleasure seekers who love joinery.

SPEAKER_00

I know when I was writing the copy for that, my husband was like, I don't know, you can say that. I was like, that means that I already have that means two.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Don't tell me I can't do it because I will.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. A lot of us take it so also seriously, and it's not that you don't take it seriously, but you have a bit of fun with it as well.

SPEAKER_00

So I guess I'm don't you think though it's like it, it's like the food, the food bloggers. I just always love the food bloggers, especially on Instagram that would be like a go get the sandwich from the newer sandwich place, and they would talk about it like they were like making love to the sandwich. Like, and then I bit in, and oh my god, and I'm like, that's what it's like for interiors. Like, don't you like, wouldn't you love if someone said to you, right, I'm gonna lock you in that finished design by flakes, and you can have one hour in there on your own. This is this imagine if they had designers with security cameras on them seeing what they would do because we would all be like, Oh god, I've got to touch everything at Fonville and I'm gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01

I'd also be like looking in every cupboard, yeah, like to look at how things are put together and I would imagine it would be so funny.

SPEAKER_00

It would be honestly the funniest thing. Rubbing my hand, it'd be such a good TV program.

SPEAKER_02

It'd be quite niche, but we would be so niche, it'd be niche. It would be niche.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I like it though. That but there's there's definitely a niche for it, I think.

SPEAKER_00

A fetish of interior. I just always say to people, like it's true that we like when you like when you're looking at stones sometimes and then they've they've gone away. I'm like, I put my face against my touch and thinking, oh my god, if I get caught doing this, they're gonna be like, What are you doing? And I'll be like, sorry, I was just seeing what it felt like.

SPEAKER_02

As long as you're not licking it, some of them do look quite edible though, like some of them I just want to bite, like a biscuit or something. That would hurt. It would hurt.

SPEAKER_00

And you do, you do, but you want to like grab it as well and like rub it. And I'm like, this is all quite sexual or fellow in the way that you're touching it. But I you like, I'm like, that's really important.

SPEAKER_01

You need to have a good reaction to the feel and the touch, yes. The feel and the touch. You always we always want to touch things for sure. You always want to touch stuff. We've talked about this before. It's not just how a place looks, it's how it literally feels like how a drawer closes or how a door opens, how a cabinet knob feels in your hand, and like the weight of things. So the feel of things is really important.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. But I also feel like the vocabulary that designers use or uh uh in like if you read design magazines, you're still very like, oh, and the you came into the beautiful large hallway with sumptuous detailing, and I'm like, boring like wouldn't it be better to be like I came in and I honestly wanted to like run my hands over everything and I wanted to be alone in here for a day and sleep at the end of the day. And get naked and roll around in the carpet. Know what it feels like, like I mean not me, we could get naked. I love it, love it. No, but don't you just find that the way does it like the vocab I love using like I take lots of inspiration from food books, but like I love the way that they write, like that your mouth is this, like the eyes and the mouth are so important in that yeah, in that type of realm. But also for Raf, I think it's so important, like it's eyes and it's touch and it's how you feel, and like you do want to like really get amongst it and fondle it. And you shouldn't use words to explain it to people. Like, I'm like, do you want to touch this?

SPEAKER_03

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Do you want to rub your hand on it? Do you like how does somebody feel? Exactly. I'm looking for a reaction, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and I think we all take it all so seriously sometimes, and it's so refreshing to you know read your captions and stuff on Instagram. So how when did you sort of uh start kind of thinking, oh, you know what? I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do something different here. Was that a decision you made or was it just evolving?

Emails, Engagement, And Building Confidence

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, not was a decision. I um I actually did a copywriting course. Huh. When did I do that? Maybe like 18 months ago. Oh wow. And um I was like, you know what, this is how I talk, and I don't want to try and pretend to be someone that I'm not. Um like I I definitely can be professional and I need to be professional, but I also like to have a bit of fun. And I would was reading like Cards of Humanity, Who Gives a Crack, like all the branding on those companies that like I really think is funny when you're in the shop and you read it and I'm like crying off laughter. I'm like, why does anyone talk about interiors like that? Like it should be written in a funny way. And I just can't help myself when I start writing, I'm like, I'm gonna make this real, like Mills and Boone. Like, I'm like, how can I make it like 70s pornography and then I'll type, you know, like and I'll be looking for words, and I've got like a big word bank of like words that I can relate to interiors. Yeah, it's so funny. That's kind of where it came from. Oh wow, and then channeling that person that also makes it, you know, makes them laugh. So it's quite fun. I don't really have a person that I'm necessarily writing to, but I definitely try and channel like Mills and Boone of interiors. Um, I don't know, like trying to think of words that are very descriptive that are almost quite funny.

SPEAKER_01

And I know I love this. You found your niche. I'm just imagining I like the fact it's your voice too. Like you said, this is kind of how why would I why would I change it? Or how do I make it even like how do I lean right into that?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just imagining though like sitting at your keyboard, just like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

And it's like chuckling to yourself. I'm crying with laughter. I sent one on Friday where I I basically took on the persona of Nils and Boone on a building site, and like what was basically happening in on the building site, and like just pretending to be like I was a designer, and the client was basically from 50 shades, and like they were saying do this, but I was saying no, do that, and that painters are high on like energy drinks, and they're like shaking, and like just coming from it from a designer's point of view, and honestly, I got so I must have got like a hundred emails, but everyone was like, I was crying with laughter. I spat my coffee out. Oh my god, Jim.

SPEAKER_02

That's amazing. You get people replying to your emails like that. I do.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, I'm just gonna have to sign up. Crazy engagement. Yes, incredible. I'll be doing it straight after. I need it in my life too, you know.

SPEAKER_00

And it's weird, it's really for me, like I'm always at my hustles. I just don't do it this week. And I'm like, well, because I said to myself I was gonna do it, and I actually find it really cathartic and almost humorous to do it because I draw on what's happening, happening in my design life at that moment, like that the client needed me to show them 75 shades of white, and we're back at the white that I told them in the beginning, or the client he says they want to be brave, but they actually they saying that, but they actually don't want to be brave. And so and I have loads of clients that read the emails to, and they're like, said about me.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, I was gonna say, is that do you ever worry about that?

SPEAKER_00

Or you it doesn't like it's like no, because I wouldn't be anything I didn't say to their face. Like if they am I indecisive, I'd say, yeah, you are, but that's not a bad, it's not a it's it's hard for a designer if someone's indecisive. But like some of those traits of personality traits, they know that they're indecisive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like and that's why they have you, right?

SPEAKER_00

And that's why they you know, and I can pan it's like I'm really indecisive when I do stuff in my own house, but I'm not indecisive when I do stuff for other people.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm like very common thing, isn't it? I can't make decisions for myself, but I can like make a decision in two seconds for a client.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, occasionally I will. Sometimes I'm like, oh, that one might be a bit of a low. I think that might be too far for that client, and I'll take them out of that particular email. Um, okay. Occasionally, occasionally.

SPEAKER_01

So you read you read you read the room a bit and don't you?

SPEAKER_00

I read the room a little bit, but I just think that was probably going most of the time I don't because I'm just like none of the stuff I wouldn't say to your face.

SPEAKER_01

You're a very real person, like straight talker.

SPEAKER_00

Mostly, sometimes. Depends. I'm have definitely having an issue with straight talking and boundaries, but boundaries always cost.

SPEAKER_02

But you know what? It actually takes like quite a bit of courage to go, you know what? That's my voice. I'm gonna put my voice out there on social media. I'm gonna put my voice out there on email. Is that something that you you struggled with in the beginning? Did you think about it? Did you overthink it and go, oh, should I, shouldn't I?

SPEAKER_00

How did you A little bit, but then I was like just detached from the outcome. Like, who cares?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, like that.

What The Joinery Edit Actually Does

SPEAKER_00

If you don't, if you don't like it, don't read it, don't follow it. Like it is very you know I've and I say in the intro sequence, like there'll be swearing in this, this isn't for everybody. Like I don't take this a little bit of the industry. And yeah, people do unfollow, and that's okay. I don't it's not personal.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I don't I'm I don't find it for them to unfollow or unsubscribe. They're missing out.

SPEAKER_00

You're missing out. I've it's probably too look, it's probably too rude for some people, and sometimes I I definitely have a balance in them. Like sometimes they're really funny, and I will take on a carrot and I'll be that person, the funny tradey on site drinking the monster or whatever they're doing. And then other times they'll be much more tech orientated where I'll take if you want to do a radius on a piece of joinery, you can't do it less than this. You can't do it in veneer because it's gonna split, you have to do it in this. So they're definitely two sides to the email. So I guess sometimes if people they're too tech heavy or they're not interested that they'll unsubscribe, I probably need to split out the like filter into who wants what, but I haven't got time to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like have two different um yeah, yeah, yeah. Gets complicated, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00

I guess complicated and it's not real, like I'm just kind of doing it for myself as well. So I'm like, well, it sounds like you do.

SPEAKER_02

It sounds like you do it for yourself. Like as you said before, you're not thinking of, oh god, who, who's gonna what are they gonna think? You what's the outcome? You're just like having the best time. And I think that shows, like, I think it's it is scary, like putting yourself out there on social media in a way. Like I know a lot of designers, it's so easy to default to the I'm a multidisciplinary designer, dot dot dot. Like it's so boring. Like me.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, it is it, and I think the cut through, you mean it's real, right? Like the cut through of like finding your because a lot of us are similar, and yes, we all kind of come at things it in different ways and we're different personalities, but finding a way to cut through with your own personality and be very authentic about it, I think it can be really hard. And I think I love the fact that you're just like, well, this is just who I am, and people can take it or leave it. I feel like I'd love to be more like that.

SPEAKER_00

I reckon though, it does come with momentum, like the more that they hit and the more that people write back, the more that it encourages need to go beyond. Like they probably weren't as like innuendo laid in at the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01

Um you've been you've kind of been egged on a little bit. I've been egged on a little bit. Done on people, and you need to give them what they want.

SPEAKER_00

I know, and I get loads of requests. Like I got one on Friday from someone who was like, Can you please do one on architects and tiny windows? And my interior designers trying to dress them with tiny window treatments. And I was like, Oh my god, that's hilarious. I would love to do one of tiny windows.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I love them.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. The tiny highlight window. What's it for? It's just above the bed, the tiny highlight window. I'm like, so am I supposed to do a tiny blind on the tiny window?

SPEAKER_01

But I hate those windows so much. Hate them. Aren't they the worst?

SPEAKER_00

Delete, delete, delete.

SPEAKER_01

I have one in the living room where I am now, and there's and there's two huge windows either side, and then there's just one wall where like it's sort of like where the sofa sort of backs onto it. And I'm like, why? This would have been fine. Nice artwork, whatever. No, you had to put this tiny little, and now it's got like this little crappy little blind on it. I'm like, why? I don't understand. Like, there was enough light in the room, you didn't need to put it there.

SPEAKER_02

I've actually passed it over them before for clients. I love to do it here. Yeah, yeah, it's a disaster.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I'm like, no, I've seen one above the bed, and I'm like, Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I had one above the bed at my old house, and that's a crazy show.

SPEAKER_00

Is there some sort of like secret group with architecture? And they're like, right, what we're gonna do is we're all gonna put a tiny window, we've got to do six, six tiny window quotas in here. You can do you do a tiny roller on that, it's gonna look great. And I'm like, all I can see is that tiny window, and then I can't take any pictures because your tiny window is ruining it.

SPEAKER_01

And it ruins it can ruin the tiny space so easily. And it's surely it's not cheap to do, like it's adding cost to the build rather than just having a wall, right?

Cost, Board Sizes, And Smart Detailing

SPEAKER_00

I quite often say that to clients if it's in the in the process of hasn't gone to count, so I'm like, so that little window, so that you know, the little window is probably like three grand just for the window. And then to put it in is like another grand, and then for the tiny window treatments, probably like another grand. So do you want it? And they're like, no, and I'm like, well, I have to delete that one.

SPEAKER_02

Love it.

SPEAKER_01

And then get it if there's no other windows in the like you know, there's some bedrooms. If you have to. We have issues now with like, you know, you can't look out over whatever, and you have to have those in there. But when they're there and they don't need to be, I just don't get it.

SPEAKER_00

We'll look just to the emotion. Yeah, we'll look we'll be looking at it. It's coming. I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02

I like how you take requests. Crowd participation.

SPEAKER_00

I do take a bit of requests. I'm like, what else is annoying you there? Like tile trims. I'm like, right, got it, so it's oh yes.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, carpet, carpet joining. Carpet junctions, yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

There's always funny, and I one other favourite one at the moment is to count how many cans of energy drinks are on site. Like when I'm on a building site, I'm like, used to be there was a monster. No, was it Monster? It was Rainbow Sherbet. I was like, what sort of Rowan man is drinking rainbow surgeon energy drink? I was like walking around the building side. I'm like, who's this? You ask. Is this a man? You're so good. It's a joke though, because they're like this, the size of a fire extinguisher. They're like come rolling in, and I'm like, how many of those have you had? I don't think you should be alone with my stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01

I know, you may have a heart attack.

SPEAKER_00

Like, let's just like shaking, painting. I'm like, no more. You're cut off. Cutting you off the energy drink.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, it could work in your benefit because they're like, oh my god, you just tiled that whole bathroom in one hour. The work.

SPEAKER_01

It's not good work, but they're getting it done really quickly.

SPEAKER_00

I'd love to know though, because I was like joking with the builder, I was like, okay, if there's 30 guys on site and each guy has three cans a day, that's 90 cans of energy drink that are being consumed in this one building site. I'm sure it's not that, but some of the ones in Sydney, I'm like, there's 30 guys here today. There's so many energy drinks. Oh, that is hilarious. It's the tradies, the tradies go to.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I thought it was dare. I thought they like their coff iced coffee. I don't know. Yeah, but that's old school. That's old school.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's retro to have the iced coffee and the pie. Yeah. Now it's your vape and your monster.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, vape and the energy regeneration. And maybe like a muscle and a muscle chef meal because you're healthy.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, that's yes. Because I have the protein.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the protein, because I go to the gym and then and I'm always laughing. I'm like, this just doesn't equate. So you're healthy and you go to the gym, but you've got an energy drink and you're vaping. I I just need to just understand. Yes. Are they still listening to triple M on the radio?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, they still listen to Triple M. I think some of them might listen to Triple J, but yes, I think that's triple J.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, or triple A.

unknown

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

The cool ones listen to Triple J.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Some of us I'm like, too much hip-hop, the client's coming. That's probably a little bit too much today. It's fine if I'm here, but let's just take it down a nutshell.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Put cold chisel or something back on. Um so with your um, you know, would you is that newsletter, is that part of the joinery edit or is that Studio Gemma? Or is that the join?

SPEAKER_01

Joinery edit. Okay. So can you explain the different because I don't I think you know a little bit more, Lauren what's so what is the joinery? So you have you and your business and interior design and the joinery edit. What what are the two businesses?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a weird one because they are two businesses, but they're under one umbrella because I just shouldn't be bothered setting up two Instagram accounts or two. I do have two websites. Um, but the joinery edit one I need to I need to spend a lot of time. I did I build the website and then I haven't done anything else much with it for like 18 months. But the studio demas, me doing interiors, and then the joinry edit was kind. Of like a arm of the company where I just wanted to get really into joinery detailing and explaining to other designers like all the nuances within it. Um but they do kind of come together because I get lots of clients coming over who know about the joinery edit, who fought the joinery edit, who want more. Like so they do kind of feed into each other, but they are two separate entities. But then they probably all like I guess I only have one Instagram and I talk about joinery a lot on that. It was probably a little bit like everyone's like, why don't you separate it out? But I'm like, I don't want to run two Instagram accounts.

SPEAKER_01

It's a lot, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

It's a lot. And and I'm quite happy to talk about join like I I'm one of the designers that share other designers' work. I'm not doing I'm not someone that has like a massive catalogue of my own work yet. I've actually when I wrote to you guys yesterday, I was like, I haven't photographed anything for two years. Shit. I will photograph a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_01

That happens, sorry.

From London To Sydney: Joinery Culture Shock

SPEAKER_00

I know because I had a couple of five-year projects as well that just wrapped up. Yeah. So I will photograph some, but I definitely um knew like I talk about joinery in a way and use other designers' work, which obviously feeds into people knowing, oh, she knows joinery will get her on board to come and help facilitate that side of the project. Okay. Um, I think as well with with um clients being quite savvy and understanding that joinery is probably one of the biggest expenses on a job, like it kind of, you know, I'm always you need to be educated about it because you're going to be blowing a shitload of money on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Especially the joinery you designed.

SPEAKER_01

So do you have designers work with you on joinery for projects? No. Or is it just clients like end users?

SPEAKER_00

Just end users, yeah. Yeah. So originally when I got into it, I so I've always I did industrial design first. I went to uni in Wellington. That explains the yeah, so it probably explains detailing a little bit. So I went to uni and went to design school in Wellington, which is quite good because that design campus is one of those multidisciplinary ones that feed in. So there's like industrial designers, interior designers, facial designers, textile fashion, graphic, advertising just in one canvas. It was really cool. Yeah, that was. Like Callie, Callie Thompson. She went there, she did illustrations. There's a couple of other people that come out from there. And I did industrial design right up until the last year, and then was like, uh, I don't know if I'm gonna get a good job on this. Uh and I was really enjoying doing my interior design electives that I decided to switch. And so I ended up having to go back for another year. So I was there for five years, full-time. And then I think I've always just been fascinated with joinery and furniture and asking those questions. You know, I I feel like when you leave uni, you have an understanding of the whole process, but joiny, joinery in itself is like construction, materials, costs, board sizes, streamlining stuff, like just understanding what can be done with materials and what can't be done is really important to us. And what can yeah, and what can be done with the budget. And so many I did shop I did shop drawings for ages um for a couple of joiners, like before I had kids, and I just remember seeing all the different drawings coming in, and I was like, shit, you really are an expert. And the discrepancies as well, but the discrepancy in drawings, I was like, holy shit, like some people know and other people don't, and there's no there's absolutely no judgment there because I'm not a joiner. I understand how it's constructed somewhat, but I still lean heavily on the joiner to be like, no, we're not doing it like that. It doesn't work. And I'm like, okay, show me how. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's very I always do too. Yeah, which I love I love the patch.

SPEAKER_01

Like I love dealing with experts where you learn a bit and you obviously take it on, so you might take that to the next project. But I'm I would always basically refer back to the expert and go, can this be done? Or how can I do it better? Is always hate it when they don't tell you how to do it better and then they kind of say it later or something. You're like, Why didn't you why didn't we talk about this when that's happened to me before?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like they've come up with a different solution later on on a different job, and I've seen it and I've gone, why didn't you do that? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Then I remember, you know, or even like knowing what questions to ask, right? Like that one. Like if you don't know the vocabulary, it's really hard to explain. Like, do I have to do a filler panel here? Can I do a quirk? Can I do an exposure? Right? What tolerance do I need? How many hinges do I need in the store? Do I have to do slothpose injas? I fucking hate slothpose injas. Do I have to do white melamine internals? No. Okay, how much more is it? Not to do white melamine internals. Like all those little things are so important.

SPEAKER_02

And I remember graduating thinking, okay, I need to draw some joinery. I'm like, I literally don't know how thick a board is. I don't know anything. And you do learn so much on the job, but I think that's why the joinery edit is just so clever because sometimes you're just like, I just need to know some good basics just to get going. And if you don't have the experience, you're just like, I don't even know where to start. So is that sort of how the joinery edit came about? You were like feeling like there was a bit of a need out there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's really simple. Yeah, and also I was always Googling this the same things, like how big a board size is, what's more expensive? And just I just started writing stuff down and just being like, okay, so how much is is is poly and a dark colour more expensive than white poly? How much more is it for a shaker? Why is it more for a shaker? Is it more for a re-bated door and applied door? And just asking, and then I sent out loads of jewelry quotes and was like, then I could do like a matrix to figure out where the pricing was. And then I just so that I could figure out so that I was really in tune in the client meeting. I was like, okay, so you want that colour? It's actually going to be more cost effective to do it in this finish rather than this finish. That's going to be 40% more. Which way do you want to go? Um, and I think that is a good skill to have when you're trying to work to a client's budget because I've seen it happen so many times when people are like, ah, the joinery package came in 200 grand over. And I'm like, you know what it is. It's these.

SPEAKER_01

But it can come down just to the detailing, right? Like just the detailing can be the thing that changes it.

Trust, Aesthetics, And Pushing Clients Further

SPEAKER_00

Or the board size. Have you designed joinery that's too tall? And I'm like, you've gone from a you need a 3.2 meter board now. Those are oversized, those are expensive. If you stick to the 2.2 meters.

SPEAKER_01

I need to think about this more. It's like I know it. It's there in the back of my head. And if someone says it, you go, oh yeah. But sometimes you're just like, I just want to make it look like this.

SPEAKER_00

I don't care. I'll just buy the extra half of the board. We'll just throw the other board out. But I'm always like to clients, it adds up. Like if you're designing if the architect's done the all the rooms at 3.2 ceilings and you've got five built-in wardrobes, you're gonna need to figure out how to break those doors down so you're not doing oversized boards because otherwise you're gonna be really expensive. And if you're doing shakers on those, then you can't use 18 mil because the span's too high. So then you're in the 25 mil. It just the knock-on effect. I'm like, you just blow in an extra 20 or 30 grand just in that one detail.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like wow, amazing. You might not be aware of. Yeah, and it's like we we think about it with stone slabs, don't we? Like we because we're always going, oh, this like we have to use every bit of it, but we don't think about it that much. Well, I don't think about it that much when it comes to the board sizes, and I probably should be thinking about that more.

SPEAKER_02

So can you tell us a bit about so you graduated and you mentioned you worked on shop drawings? Like, how did you tell us? Tell us your story. You don't know.

SPEAKER_00

How did you graduate? Then uh I went to London and I was an architectural assistant for I would have been cool. I was cool, but it was also I was like, I lied. I said I Do you know when you look back and you're like, oh my god, I was like 23, can you use AutoCAD? Definitely never had news.

SPEAKER_01

That's hilarious. Because that's not an easy one to pull off if you can't.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I I hadn't used other software, so I was like, I'm pretty sure I can teach them. So thank God I got sat next to this like young boy, young man the same age as me who had just been traveling in New Zealand and was an art grad. And I was like, thank God. So I was like, I've got something to tell you. I actually can't use the word I had. I've lied. So how do you draw a line? I don't know. I was like, okay, so you just should be like, how do you do this? And then I just watched a lot of YouTube videos. And I, you know, within a couple of weeks I was pretty proficient in it. God for YouTube. I know, thank God. I've got it like seven o'clock in the morning and watch YouTube. I was like, I would never do that now. I just think that's so dishonest.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, most of the stress. I feel like when you're younger, you don't have as much, like you're not as scared. So you don't have that stress. I think us now we'd be so stressed that we lied about something that we'd and then we're gonna get caught out. But I guess when you're younger, it's like, oh, what's the worst that can happen?

SPEAKER_02

But I also think that it's not exactly a lie because you had just studied for all those years, five years, you said. Did you you didn't know the basics at least?

SPEAKER_01

And you know how to learn stuff. Oh, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

You know, you know. I know how to new specs. Well, I knew I use vector works, so they're comparable. Yeah, you know. But yeah, I mean it was a blight. It was a it was I don't even know how I met I don't even know because that you had to do cat tests. I don't even know how I managed to. I think I I don't honestly had no idea how I managed to cheat the system, but I did. And so when I was there, I was doing what was I doing, like window details, door details, like learning stuff that I had no idea, like the terminology, like this is the curtain walling detail. And I was like, What's the curtain wall detail? Like, like, is it a curtain on a wall? Like again, just being playing innocent. Oh, it's not called that in New Zealand. What are you guys doing here? I love that. I use aren't. I said I was like, I I've been archicat, so it's a bit different. I just would lie. Like, I think I I mean I must have been honest to it to the young guy, I was like, I've never used this, but I worked my ass off and I got everything done. It's just I also was a massive learning curve. Like, yeah, and especially when um I was working on some massive projects, there'd be like 17 of us in one file, like uploading X refs, and I'd be like, shit.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god.

Colour, Pattern, And The Myth Of Resale Safety

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a bit of not pet to leave. We're gonna download that into the file right now, we've got to send it to plot, and I'd be like, Oh my god. Um and then I and then I left there and went into an interior architecture practice. So I was I did a couple of practice, you know how I was I think I've mentioned this in other podcasts before, but like when I graduated, it's probably similar to you guys, but wasn't really there was architects' practices with interior design wings, but there wasn't really standalone interior architecture practices. Yeah. So I ended, I did find one, and so I worked there for a while and it was like high-end private resear with a quite a big emphasis on like joinery and like door detailing and custom detailing and whatever else. And then I left there and went to another like bougie boutique one, which was lots of celebrity clients and it's ridiculous budgets and lots of lots of joinery detailing in that, you know. Like, and then when I moved here, I couldn't believe that that's another reason why I started the joinery edit. I when I first got here, I was like, what do you mean this is like a$20 million house and it's got white melamine internals? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get my head around why that's there like that. Like, I can't understand when there's this beautiful veneer joinery, and he opened the door and it's just like four souls. And I was like, I haven't seen that before because I've been in London and everything's solid timber and everything's got hinges, and I uh like it was just a bit of a and I was like, I don't think like I think the Australian design scene is amazing, but I still think there's a lack in that European furniture, custom joinery. Obviously, it comes with the architecture that they've got there because it's much more suited, but you know, sometimes I'm just like, God, there's so much more to joinery and the fun that you can have and like how here it's actually like really risque to use a butt hinge, whereas I mean it's not really that risque, but like you can't, you know, you can't use those on a frame the system. So there's this the nuances within that. If you want to learn how to do joinery better, you need to understand that there's different construction methods for those joinery techniques and what you can and can't do with the materials or the hinges. Like, so I guess that's probably where it kind of the fixation started and just realizing that there was so much to learn. And if I could put it in a document then and it helped me, it was going to help other people.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I did.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I was sort of in the reverse in that I'd sort of worked here in Australia, and then I went over to London, and everything was so ornate, everything was so decorative, and I was learning from the other designers in there, and so I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't realise how minimalist we are in Australia, and mind you, this is over 15 years ago. Um, and I think it's changed a lot. Yeah, I was like, oh, I don't like all of this really ornate stuff, but then as it kind of grew on me because you're in the environment, it makes sense in those kind of older properties, and then you come back to Australia and it's back to the plain flat panel doors and like as you say. So I think there's definitely a lot more interesting joinery that we're doing in Australia now, but um, yeah, and a little less minimalist leaning, I feel.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and also like it's you know, like you guys had them too, like we've got lots of period houses in Sydney. And so I'm like, you can't put that white sharpmose kitchen in here. I'm sorry. No, it's like against the law, I'm pretty sure. I'm like, we're not doing that. Sorry, like, and then if you want to do that, I'm probably not the person for you because I'll be like, no, we're leaning into the fact this is a traditional home and we're gonna do traditional joinery techniques in some of the rooms. We can downspeck in other areas, but like I want to see those butt hinges, I want hand-painted joinery, we're not having white malamite internals. And to be honest, it's not that big a price stretch. I think people just have this preconception that it's just huge jump up in price to have to sell those things, but I'm like, it's actually not like to do coloured internals isn't super expensive, for example.

SPEAKER_01

But I think it's yeah, I love a coloured internal labor. I think it's it's better now too because they're they didn't have a lot of those options before in um now we do. Like it's not doesn't have to be like a um, you know, you can get a prefab board for the interior where you couldn't before, right? In those particular colours for some particular colours.

SPEAKER_02

And labor's so expensive to if they're gonna do a white or they're gonna do dark blue, the labor's the same, you know?

SPEAKER_00

The labor's exactly, and it's just for boards. So I'm like, yeah, you only need two extra boards. The white board's 190, the blue board's 280. It's really not that big a deal. Like, yeah, and I always will try and upspect, you know, like bedrooms. I'm like, no, we're not having a white another money to your bedroom. Like, absolutely no way.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, it makes such a difference too. You look at the inside of that every day. It's not people who ask like it's hidden away. Well, no, you use it. This is part of what you use every day. Why not enjoy it somehow? Yeah. The white is just, I don't know, it feels it looks cheap. So you can spend all this money and then it looks cheap, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I care. And same with the soft clothes hinges. Like, I totally understand the importance of them and the technical side of them as to why joiners like them, but I also will definitely try and push the boat down and be like, no, what about these beautiful olives? I want to use these ones, and they're like, oh, like I just did one that was like hectic. It was like olive hinges, pivot hinges. There were so many hinges in one space. And I was like, this is mine. The colour of the hinge. The little um olive knuckle hinges. So like a butt hinge with an olive. Oh, wow. So when it's closed, you see. Because they're like inset. Is it inset and it's inset. Yeah, so it's when you have it within a frack of yeah. So there's a sauce hinge, a butt hinge, and all the different techno terms that you can use them so that you see the barrel as opposed to it being concealed. So it looks like a piece of furniture. Like if you look at bowl kitchens and all the kitchen supplies and one of you you'll see the hinges on those.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm like, why is that not here? Yeah. Why? I've got that in my old 1960s kitchen as well. But it's yeah. Don't you love it though? Well, I love it because you see the you also see the exposed frame and the insert, the cupboard doors. Anyway. Um, so how would you say, would you say your aesthetic has evolved over the years and changed? How would you know?

SPEAKER_00

I do know I don't know how I know that question. I was like, I don't even know if I have an aesthetic. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_01

It's a hard thing to work out sometimes because obviously when you work on projects, you're working to a particular client. Look, but you have to really think about it because it's definitely there, I think.

SPEAKER_00

It's definitely there, but I would say, like, you know, when you look at some designers' work, I'm like, that's flak, that's YHG.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That's in such that's SJB, that's Kennedy Nolan in a nice, beautiful way, like not in the you just know that that's their aesthetic. I don't think that I've probably got an aesthetic per se. I I can't see it that it's there. I would say that I've just probably like colour, listen to what the client wants, and will put try and push them to go beyond what they would do on their own. But I wouldn't say, I don't know. I find that question really hard. People say what's your aesthetic? I'm like, I don't know.

Industry Icks: Tiny Windows And Aircon Grills

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think that you you sort of that's my impression. Like you're not afraid of colour. They're responsive to the client, but they're responsive to the property and detail, like detail, detail, detail, like very thoughtful, very like getting right down as she was saying, like the olive hinge. I'm like, I don't even know what that is. Like, that's amazing. So I think I don't know if that's an aesthetic so much, but it's like a very thoughtful way of designing. But it sounds like that's something you've carried through your career, would you say? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, probably. Yeah. I yeah, I would say as well, like it's so hard because you can say you can only ever be as good as the client lets you be or trusts you to be. So sometimes you see these amazing houses and you're like, this is the time. And then they're much more conservative, and you're like, it's like this could have been this could have been opportunity. An opportunity if you had trust the process and allowed, and ultimately, like it's not an egotistical thing. I always say the clients, this is your house. I want you to be happy. It's not about me.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I am going to push you because I don't want to do this white. Because you can tell me that you want to do it white, and I'm going to say no because I don't understand why you think you don't even relax.

SPEAKER_01

Like that's what we're there for. Like you could go and probably achieve something ordinary, yeah, without us. But you want our job is to push you outside of like what you might have not thought of, or like show you something that you will fall in love with, even though you went, oh no, I wouldn't do that. And then we show it to you, and you go, actually, that's amazing. Like, that's kind of the job, right? I kind of feel like that's what we're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00

Don't you find as well if you've got repeat clients, those are the ones that are like they'll go apps, they'll go, they'll lean even further in because you're like, oh, my favorite one. They want the app or the one that they're like, yeah, they're out of that.

SPEAKER_01

And you went, I I I wish I had and they're in their head, they're probably like, I wish I had done more. So yeah, you can back again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I quite often ask them at an off-boarding. I'm like, is it anything you wish you'd done differently? Because I like to see what they say and they'll say that I trusted you more or linked in. So then I'll use that for the next the next time when I'm trying to push them in my direction. I'll be like, Well, actually, one of the other clients is another job. Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it there. Yeah, it's a good thing. You decide, yeah, and then you come back, and then they're like, Okay, okay, we're gonna do it. And I'm like, okay, amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Because there's nothing like regret, right? So if you make them, you're gonna regret it.

SPEAKER_02

It's a lot of money. Paint, yeah, you might as well go for it. Um, so we think what are you gonna do? Yeah. I I know I have I've been doing just like a bunch of consultations and stuff lately, and sometimes people will say, Well, so we're thinking about painting that room that colour and that room that colour. Do you think that'll be too much? I'm like, You're asking the wrong person. Yeah, do it.

SPEAKER_00

You're like, Do you think it's bad if I paint this room upstairs green and this one blue and the one down there pink? And I'm like, who's gonna walk around your house and go, Oh, I'm not buying that house? Did you see they had a pink room and a blue room?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, people really do worry about this. They say it to me too, but won't it be weird if this is unlucky? No.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, no, I'm like, no, it looks great. And if you like the colour green, we can do 50 shades of green and they're not good, they'll all talk to each other cohesively, but they're all separate. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

There's always a little bit of a connection between rooms. There can be a whole different colour scheme, but there's something about them that connects to the other space. Like they're it's not like the house is completely schizophrenic. I know. Like we're we're good at our job in terms of tying it all together.

SPEAKER_00

But for some reason, they seem to think that their guests are gonna come down to the powder room on each floor. And I'm like, they're not gonna do that. You're not gonna go upstairs to your daughter's bedroom. That's not how they work. They're just gonna go into the main house. It doesn't matter if they're they're they can be quite perplexing, and you can be like, just like when we go to the bathroom in a restaurant, I'm like, Have you got? Been to the powder room is out of control. You've got to go have a look. Like, and it might be so different to the rest of the house or the rest of the restaurant. I don't know. I just feel like people are sometimes.

SPEAKER_01

I always get disappointed in a restaurant if I go to the um bathrooms and they're boring. I'm like, what are you doing? This is your chance.

SPEAKER_00

Like or they're dirty. I'm like, I'm like, hang on a second. If this is dirty in here, I don't think I want to eat the salad anymore. I'm gonna leave.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I don't want the chicken. Um you said before, Gemma, that you know, white melamine is a particular ick. Do you have any other sort of joinery icks that you want to share with us? Or interior design icks?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I also hate aircon grills. I like to write about those and like why? Who is aircon? Whoever studied aircon technician, like I'm like, come on, give me a break. Why do I have to have that IP metal grill? I'm not having it, I'm not tolerating it, we're not doing it. You need to come up with another solution.

SPEAKER_01

I keep saying this should be a whole business and we should call it fucking sexy aircon grills, and we could take on or even just even just like the amount of body split systems, like, why hasn't someone designed a better way to do that? Sign me a worst. They're so silicon colours.

Heritage, Duplexes, And Why Quality Matters

SPEAKER_00

Come on, you've only got ten. I'm like, give me some more silicon colours. I don't like these ten. Make me have a special potion. Yeah, special potion. Yeah. I'm obsessed yeah, obsessed with the power. I love how the other one is that is. So don't you find though? Because you never think about an aircon grill until like I can't go into a finished project, whether it be mine or someone else's, and I'm like, look up and I'm like, look at that beautiful kitchen. That's massive bulkhead with the absolutely hideous air con grill, and it's all I can see. But what can we do? I will do whatever it takes. Yeah, because it's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01

Have you come up with other solutions in the past?

SPEAKER_00

The amount of opening, yeah, it's a tricky one, and it depends on the aircon guy and the joiner. So I'll either do a joinery one, but the client will have to sign away to say that they understand because an aircon grill on an actual metal flange is like a it's like a triangle, so the air comes as a sort of flat blade, they're like pivoting to flow the air out. And so to do that in joinery obviously is really expensive because you'd have to taper every single piece. So you can either do a a cutter in the joinery or you can do slats on the joinery, but then the proficiency of the aircon that the aircon guys will try and say they're not gonna like it. Or I'll do metal metal mesh grills and powder cuts in the same colour as the joinery or brass ones if it's the the house, but or I'm always just trying to get them out. I'm like, can we put it in the window track seamling track? Like I need to get it away as far away as possible as possible. Yeah, yeah. So quite often we'll do the pl the tiny little plenum ones that sit in the palmets that run across the palmet, so you can't, they're still there, but they're not there.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

But if you don't coordinate that at the very beginning, I'm always up to find we have to get this now because if not, we can't we need to design all the bulkheads to accommodate this termination, otherwise we're gonna end up with round grills everywhere or giant, ugly, great, flangeeless giant grills.

SPEAKER_02

They're so ugly.

SPEAKER_00

So that's probably one of my main icks. But the other one that I definitely have, and I don't, it's probably the same in Melbourne as where I live in particular. Everyone buying these beautiful art deco houses and knocking them down, putting Hamptons slash coastal duplexes. It's the duplex, I can't handle it. It's too sad. It's too sad. The dupe the hideous duplex. I'm like, oh yay, another white Hamptons duplex, oh, with some breeze blocks and some white slats. Wow. And stuffed stone. Yeah. I um really struggle with those sacks and shingles on like one pier. I'm like, oh god, here we go again. I um yeah, there's so many around here, and honestly, I can't understand that there's no I feel like in England there's so much more tight on what you can and can't do with regulations. Oh, in terms of style, or just in terms of like knocking a house down. I'm like, yeah, just knocked out.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like we're gonna miss whole generations now of um design eras because obviously there's protection on a particular type of heritage. But we but it's happening.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm like, where's the heritage for those?

SPEAKER_01

And then exactly, like we're we're missing out on this whole period of time where those homes are gonna be so rare, yeah, like they're gonna be gone. I mean, mid-century, it even took a while for that to become a bit more, you know, like, oh yeah, actually, we need to protect these. But like, yeah, just the average 70s, 60s, like.

SPEAKER_00

The 70s, 60s, and especially like I'm an hour and a half out of Sydney, so down the south coast, and all of them are into your 60s and 70s bricks. And I'm like, okay, some of them definitely are ugly, but I'm like, yeah, they're still quintessentially cool. Like, we've got a strawberry brick one, and everyone's like, Are you gonna paint it? And I'm like, no, like I wouldn't even paint it. Like, it's a strawberry brick 70s original house. Like it's what it is. Why would you try to make it look like it's something it's not?

SPEAKER_02

That's what I hate too.

SPEAKER_00

I know. I'm like, no, and I just can't, I just really struggle with them when they're not I can't when I honestly start crying in the street sometimes.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, no, why are you knocking this one down?

SPEAKER_00

I have to say, I'm I get a bit. You can't get it back, it's gonna be gone forever.

SPEAKER_02

And they're such round balconies. I'm like, oh, and they're such good floor plans, and they're so good to live with.

SPEAKER_01

They are I actually really love a good 70s floor plan.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like bricks, yeah, bricks, and I'm like, they're so easy, they're so structurally sound. I'm like, do not.

Hand-Painted Finishes And Visible Craft

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's true, right? And now they're building such crap, like worst quality stuff. Like I think the big difference, uh my theory on it is that we used to build houses to be homes, and there was this sort of um, you know, craftsmanship and quality that went into it because you built a house to be your home potentially forever. And now we're building homes, or people are building homes, probably mostly developers, but people also to just to make money. It's just become about oh, let's build two on this block and we can sell one for this and one and we'll keep one and we'll invest in this. So it's like not about it being a home anymore, it's just about how much money can be made. And so corners are cut and things are ugly, and there's no love in it. The floor plans, like, you know, they've just put that stupid bloody study in the front of the house just so they can say it has a study, but it's absolutely useless. You know, the storage is right, like it's just so many things are wrong. It's white and it's it's not it's white melomite.

SPEAKER_00

It's the hitty ass door from Bunnings. I'm like, there's the fucking door from Bunnings. That's a Hume door that you put on the front door. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. I know I can't. I also think as well, why would you why would you don't have any garden now? You've just you have to sub what everyone wants to live in a standalone house, yet you've built a duplex where you've got a put a put a party wall. I don't understand why you would do that and how the council just goes tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, and I'm like, so we've gone from a site of living with a family or four people to ten people being on one site. What's that gonna do to the schools? And the like I get quite passionate about it because we are there's so much development to just because we're still in the Sydney commute about like they're just knocked down rebuild, knock down rebuild. I'm like, oh no, that's a pretty I love it when you go to the proper seven. I know that's my big gig. That's probably my big egg, and soft hose hinges and white melanin. Remember the hand applied finishes. I want to see French polishing, I want to see hand painted. And the painters are like, I just finished one and they were like, Are you happy with the painting? And I was like, No, I clearly said I wanted visible brushstroke, so you need to go back. And I and you're like, Really? And I'm like, I want to see that's what I paid for. I don't want it, I don't want it to look flat. Yeah, I could do that with this oil based paint. Yeah, give me the oil based paint immediately.

SPEAKER_01

The mark of the maker. You want the mark of the maker. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, that's what you do. And I think that's something that you know, in this age of AI, blah, blah, blah, people are going to want that. That's luxury. To have somebody with their human hands painting on a finish and to be able to see that, enjoy that. Like that is going to be, and I it is that's luxury.

SPEAKER_00

It's luxury. And I always take and show people this is Polly, this is hand painted. And then you see some of them are like, oh no, I really don't like hand painted. And I'm like, God, other ones are like, oh, Polly looks like the yeah, they have to be into the character of something.

SPEAKER_01

It's a bit like when we talk about, you know, natural stone or natural finishes that are aren't going to stay exactly as they are when you first put them in. But you've got to love the fact that they are gonna change and wear and age with time. I was just gonna say, the uh Kendall Jenner, have you seen? So what I love about this is I mean, it's not necessarily my particular style, but what I love is obviously she gets a lot of attention and she's maybe gonna spark trends, is that it's great that this is getting all this attention because the house is actually lived in and it's not super perfect and it has those kind of marks of the makers, and um, you know, it's full of character, so it's really nice to see that being so and warm like you just you think, oh my god, this is so I was surprised.

SPEAKER_00

I was like, oh, me too.

SPEAKER_01

Actually, kind of went into it going, eh, I'm gonna hate it. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00

I was like, Oh, Kendall, Kendall's the Kendall's the like the kind of more wild.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we're saying that she's the one with the taste though, right? I think she's possible.

SPEAKER_00

She's the bo she's probably the most outcast woman, isn't she? She's a bit more quiet, she's a bit more under the radar, doing her own thing. Yeah, I know I thought that was beautiful. I was like, that is yeah, not necessarily my style, but I think the Americans do that really beautiful capital so well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And it's a new build.

SPEAKER_01

Sort of American kind of look.

SPEAKER_02

A new build. Isn't it? It's a new build, yeah. So it was by Heidi Cal. I know. Heidi. Yeah, Heidi, yeah. Yeah, so love that.

SPEAKER_00

I love some of the I love some of the American designers. I've got them in my what's some of my favorite websites to go to. I'm like, oh god, look at that beautiful, like the proportions and joinery well too, right?

SPEAKER_01

They do joinery actually like detail and they yes, millwork. Sorry, millwork.

Decisions, Doubt, And Designer Boundaries

SPEAKER_02

And they use pattern. I think we don't use pattern in Australia. People are people are scared of colour, but then you talk about pattern and they're terrified. But you know, with that uh Kendall Jenner, it's a sofa in a pattern fabric, which I'm I love patterned sofas because people are just not me too. They don't want to take the leap, they're so terrified. Will it date? What if I don't like it in a like and it looks like a really comfortable sofa as well. So that that was my favorite part.

SPEAKER_00

That's my other, that's my other ick when people go, you know what? I just isn't really practical about this grey sofa. And I'm like, handle it, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Do you like the colour grey? And they're like, no. And I'm like, why would you have one of the largest objects in the room is a grey sofa? It's like a tombstone.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, Do you yell at them like that?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. I'll say no. I'm like, no, that's the question. I'm like, do you like grey? No, do you why would you do grey carpet or a grey sofa? No, and I'm like, hang on, this is one of your biggest purchases, and you're gonna see it every day.

SPEAKER_01

There is no way of it is that this is this weird thing where people go, I feel like this is safe and it's not gonna date and all of the deadly things that are in their head. But are you gonna even like it? Don't you think that's the most important part? Oh my gosh. Polyester fabric, tombstone, interiors, I don't want to be able to do that. Honesty is not always good. Like safety actually can be boring and it's boring and kind of depressing to live your life that way. Sure, maybe put on a seat belt or like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Don't you find that you know when you go to the develop developers' houses though, and I'm like, so it's white walls of grey carpet? I'm like, hang on a second. I'm just trying to get my head around who would buy this with this carpet and then accept it. I'd be like, wreck that out straight away as killing my soul for these to go.

SPEAKER_01

Because it comes back to what I said before. Everyone's so focused on, and we have this discussion with clients all the time, resale value. And like, oh so you're moving, no?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Oh maybe in 10 years, maybe in 10 years. Okay, well, let's decide for someone we don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Also, I still strongly believe that you have a better chance of selling your house for more when someone actually falls in love with it. Me too. Because it has great finishes and character and warmth than looks like every other cookie cutter that's trying to sell a house and make money. Yours is going to stand out because it actually feels like a home that has something going for it instead of just this empty shell of a space. Sorry, getting on the wrong.

SPEAKER_00

I agree, I agree. No, but I it's like when my husband's always saying if we buy another house, let's buy one that's done up. And I'm like, what? Do you know me? No. We'll be buying a decrepit estate, is what we're buying. And we'll be doing it up. I'm not buying anything with a tiny window, so you're not doing that, and I'm not buying a new build. And we're not buying a new build. I mean, I full disclaimer, I do have a brown, a beige high glass poly kitchen with Caesar Stone. I haven't done the kitchen yet, and it's uh a talking point. Everyone's gonna say, What's in your kitchen? I'm like, beige. And Caesar Stone with a white glass flashback. I mean, like, but my husband, for all intents and purposes, like, it's great. And I'm like, I know, but it's just not my taste, but there's nothing wrong with it, so I'll live with it. When the kids are young, I'm like, yeah, yeah, skateboard inside, whatever. Um, and we'll do that later when it's got a few more damages to it. I'll put it in the kitchen now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

So and then you and then it'll take you years to do it because you won't be able to make a decision. I know.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, because you know too much. There's designers. I reckon every designer should pay another designer to do their house.

SPEAKER_01

It should be like a we should have like a little community where we go like we exchange it or something because I feel the same. Like sometimes I just want someone else to make the decisions, even about small stuff. Sometimes I'm like, I need to buy bedding.

SPEAKER_00

What stall should I get? These ones or these ones? And I'm like, oh both on I don't to my other friends who are designers. I'm like, definitely not that they're like, sorry, I don't know what came over me. I thought this was I and I'm like, no, we're diff no, no.

Where To Find Gemma And What’s Next

SPEAKER_01

And they're like, see too many things too, right? I can be in love with something in the morning and then in love with something else that like you know, if it's a chair, and then see five chairs that day and go, actually, no, I know I love this one.

SPEAKER_00

That one, so how do we decide? It's like wedding dress shopping. I always say to people, once you've decided on that we're we're going forward, we've we've done tenor as in construction, we're not looking at the finishes anymore. No, it's like you've got your wedding dress, we don't look at wedding magazines anymore. No, I'm not talking to you about it. I'll listen to what you're saying, but I'm probably gonna say no.

SPEAKER_01

And don't listen to other people like you with your decision.

SPEAKER_00

My friend Karen, she said that. And I'm like, uh-huh, Karen.

SPEAKER_01

Or the builder. I hate it when the builder or one of the trays chimes in on a colour or something. You're like, oh, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_00

I had to just wait. The painter said to the client, Oh, that white painters, they're the worst.

SPEAKER_01

It's quite a dark white.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, What? It's quite a dark white. I was like, What are you telling you that he wants us to do lexicum quarter? Well, we're not doing lexicon quarter. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think maybe it's because they've got like a holy surplus at what in a storage? And they're just like, I think this is the right colour for a whole bunch of things.

SPEAKER_00

I honestly believe that they always try and say because it's got a edit coverage, and I'm like, well, why don't you do two coats underneath, and then we'll do the top coat and the colour I want, which won't be a lexicon quarter?

SPEAKER_02

So problem solved. It's like we have spent six months choosing this colour, six months, and then the painter comes in and goes, What about this colour? What about lexicon quarter?

SPEAKER_00

Whites, yeah, that whites actually quite a cold. And I'm like, no, I'm not listening to what the painter has to say. I just put my foot down and go, mm-hmm. Is it the same painter drinking a can of monster? So do you take my advice? I'm mad at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01

Question him.

SPEAKER_00

If I've had a cup of coffee, and I'm telling you now, we're juicy. Don't take we're not taking his opinion. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02

100% agree. Oh my god, it's so frustrating. It's so hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

I'm actually gonna use that now. I'm gonna say he's got a can of monster.

SPEAKER_02

So uh we're not taking taste advice.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he's drinking rain, he is a growled man drinking rainbow shubert monster. Do you want to take his advice or my advice? Ah okay, let's proceed.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. So good, Gemma. Oh my god. So how how can people find you? They can find you from your Instagram Studio Gemma.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, Studio Gemma is my Instagram. The joinery edit is a proprietary thing, but you can sign up for the emails on the Linktree on the Instagram or on the Joinry Edit website.

SPEAKER_01

So fun. Awesome. I'm gonna be doing that straight up for this.

SPEAKER_00

I'll be waiting, Brie. Oh, Brie signed up, I guess.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I will be.

SPEAKER_02

Uh uh. Some Mills and Boon sort of content coming. Some mills and boon.

SPEAKER_00

I know. I've got I've got a couple of big, I've got some big ones to write over the small windows being one, and I'm I'm busy trying to finish one on hinges, which is very consuming. Oh my god. Getting a handle on the hinge. Horny, horny, horny for hinges. I don't know what to call it yet.

SPEAKER_01

Sound the group.

SPEAKER_00

How do you balance them?

SPEAKER_01

You don't like them soft.

SPEAKER_00

No. Too funny. I don't like a soft itch.

SPEAKER_02

So good, Jennifer. So rude. Thank you so much for chatting with us. That was so fun. That was great.

SPEAKER_00

Hopefully I wasn't too rude. I'm sorry. You can bleak me on that wasn't appropriate.

SPEAKER_02

We'll get some complaints coming in, no doubt.

SPEAKER_00

Send them my way. They'll be like, you are rude. I'll be like, yeah. That's actually PC. I actually have to keep most of it in. I'm like, don't say that, Jimmy. I was in the meeting yesterday and I was like, do not say that. Keep it inside. Keep it inside. I've turned around a couple of times. I was like, client is not going to appreciate you saying that. So I was like, keep it in, keep it in. It's too funny.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, Gemma. Thanks, Gemma. Oh, too good. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create, and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present, and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.