Best of Design Anatomy Series: 25 Years of David Hicks: A Legacy of Timeless Design

The final in our best of Design Anatomy series wraps up today, revisiting some of our most admired, inspirational & popular episodes for you to enjoy over Summer! Bree & Lauren will be back with more amazing guests in late January 2026  

Symmetry, structure, warmth, and a sense of materiality that's instantly recognisable – these are the hallmarks of David Hicks' approach to design, a philosophy he's refined over an impressive 25-year career. We sit down with this influential Australian designer to trace his evolution from what critics once described as "minimalist purity" to what he now calls "decorative minimalism."

David's journey began with his own apartment in Melbourne's converted Red Tulip Factory, a project that established his meticulous approach to design. Working with a grid system based on 600mm terrazzo tiles, he created a space where every joinery line aligned perfectly with tile grout – a detail-driven approach that still guides his work today. What makes this particularly fascinating is that this career-launching project was created in the pre-Google era, using dial-up internet and hand-drawn plans, when inspiration came from face-to-face networking rather than endless scrolling.

The conversation shifts to how dramatically the design industry has transformed over David's career. Where designers once waited eagerly for monthly magazines or trade representatives bearing materials from international shows, today's instantaneous access to global design via social media has changed how designers work, often prioritising two-second visual impact over thoughtful functionality. Despite these shifts, David has maintained his commitment to balancing what he calls "discipline" (technical expertise in space planning and detailing) with "intuition" (the creative, decorative elements).

After completing over 800 apartments, 75 homes and 125 retail projects, David opens up about what actually keeps a design practice thriving – and it's not what most people imagine. The reality of an interior designer's daily life involves far more administration than fabric selection, though he remains passionate about expanding his creative reach through new collaborations, including an upcoming tapware collection. 

For aspiring designers or anyone fascinated by the evolution of Australian design, this candid conversation offers invaluable insights into staying relevant while remaining true to your authentic vision with one of the best in the industry.

Check out David's socials below

Instagram : @davidhicksdesign

Web: https://davidhicks.com

Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment. 

Bookings now open -  Book now

Join Lauren for The Conversation Circle beginning Monday 15th June.

This fortnightly small-group mentoring program is designed for interior designers, decorators and stylists who are ready to fast-track their business growth, gain clarity, and have the support and accountability to take action.

To ensure everyone receives personalised guidance and mentoring, the group is intentionally limited to just 6 designers. This creates space for meaningful conversations, individual feedback, and practical support tailored to your business.

For more info & application process please see below:

The Conversation Circle 2026 

Transcript

Setting The Scene: David Hicks

SPEAKER_01 0:02

You might know his book A Private World of Interiors, or you may have spotted his own apartment gracing the cover of L Decoration UK back in the day. That project pretty much denounced to the world a David Giggs has arrived.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

He's known for his signature style, once described as minimalist purity, now evolved into what he calls decorative minimalism. Think symmetry, structure, warmth, and a structural sense of materiality that's instantly recognizable.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

We are very excited to have David here to reflect on his 25 years in design, talk about how the industry's changed, and also share a few insights into how he's stayed at the top of his game.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

So if you're a design lover, a detail obsessive, or just someone who believes a well-placed sconce can change your whole day, if not life, you're going to love this. It changes your life for sure. I know, right? We we all get it here. It's a safe space. So thank you so much for meeting with us, David.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

So um 25 years in design, that's such a huge accomplishment, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

It is. And I think um I mean it's even longer than that because you obviously have uh study, and then I worked for another company while I was studying, and then probably for about four years before I started my own practice. So it's it's basically most of my life, really.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah, I hear you. So when you look back at your very first project, which was your own apartment, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

What do you still do?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Like first projects are often put up.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Uh I'm curious, what do you still love about

The First Apartment And The Grid

SPEAKER_02 1:44

it and what would you change?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Uh look, I don't think I would change anything. I think that it was, you know, there's something to be said about being a little green. Um, you know, you don't have any sort of preconceived um ideas about, you know, what what's um you know, what's uh going to be accepted, what's marketable, what is your signature look, all of these things that you um, you know, add a pressures that you put on yourself as you go through uh working for longer periods of time. So I think it was really a great establishing sort of what I'm about. And it was very detail-driven. Uh it was a very small space, it was only about 110 square meters, and it was uh an apartment in the Red Schullock factory, which is was in Pran in Melbourne. Um so I bought a shell um and I wanted to keep it very open so there was no doors except for the front door and the door to the bathroom. Uh, and I wanted to kind of have it a bit sort of um like a, you know, very open sort of gallery-like space, but then, you know, have the bedroom still a bit separated and the study still a bit separated. So my starting point for the design was uh a grid. And I chose a terrazzo tile, 600 by 600. And so I gridded up the floor and then I worked out the joinery to sit within that grid. So all of the lines in the joinery are lined with the tile grouch. Um, and then part of the joinery would separate the bedroom from the living room, uh, and part of the kitchen joinery separated the main sort of living area from the study. It sounds relatively straightforward, but it was actually quite difficult because you know, if you have a 600 tile, that's too small for like a walkway or or you know an entrance into another room. Whereas two of them, 1200, is probably too big, especially in a small space, right? Yeah, especially in a small space. For me, the project was more about the architectural side of design. It was because the the actual, you know, visual design was very stripped back. So there was only a couple of materials, there was a very minimal, which is what I really liked at the time. So, in terms of that, I wouldn't change anything because I still think now it's relevant and it's a space that I could easily go back and live in now and it would still look, you know, it could have been done two years ago. Uh so that's very cool. There's something to be said, I think, about the, you know, spatial planning and really good detailing and um careful choice of materials. So that kind of set me up, I think, for the rest of my career in terms of ensuring that spaces work really well, that they're timeless, that you know, the detail that's incorporated really finesses everything. And materials chosen are also not sort of trend-led or materials or colours that are going to go out of date. So yeah, I think when when you don't have any other sort of ideas, you don't have Instagram, you don't have um, you know, this was before Google.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

It's so wild, isn't it? Yeah, it's how could we even survive?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Well, I had I had uh a birthday dinner for um my 25th year in business, and it was really funny because in my speech I was talking about when I started in my study, my apartment, I had dial up internet, I

Pre‑Google Design And Discovery

SPEAKER_00 5:06

had like just a landline, a fax, and everything was drawn by hand. Yeah, facts, yeah. And um I was I also said that at Google had only been around for a year, right? And so I think there was a few younger people there, and I think one of them said to me, Well, how did you find stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Did find stuff. I don't know, but but that adds I think the networking became really important, maybe. I mean, it still is now, but I think we would all talk about stuff or you and those shows, the I feel like you know, trade shows were way more anticipated and important for discovering new things. And even just having great architectural reps that would come and go, hey, this is new.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So there was probably a lot more kind of face-to-face discovery than now we'd go like Yeah, I think all of that was a lot more exciting because you know, especially with the reps, they would they would come and they'll be like, you know, I've just been in Paris, I've just been in Milan, and this is like the new stuff, and you had you haven't seen it because it hasn't been on Instagram. It hasn't it was exciting. It was exciting, and I remember they used to come and do like lunchtime presentation once a week, and everyone would just be like, Oh wow, like you'd have a new material or a new product or a new whatever. So it was actually quite an interesting stage to be a designer because, like I said, you don't have like it's more sort of limited on what you can use and do. So I think you were more creative with using a simple palette, whereas now I think with uh overexposure, a lot of design is about the image, like how it's going to look.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Um, not so much about how it actually works or the quality of it or you know how you interact with it. It's more, you know, it's got a it's got a pack of punch for like two seconds.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

It's so true, it's so different, isn't it? And it's really interesting what you said sort of in the beginning as well, that you would still you would still go into that apartment and enjoy it. And, you know, it is something about designing back before, you know, social media and let alone Google. But you you trusted your own instinct more, I feel. And because you didn't have so many influences just constantly in your face all the time. Like you'd sit down with a magazine and you'd be really intentional. So you I don't know, I feel like it's strange because um I studied at RMIT, oh my gosh, so long ago. 19, 98, 1999. And that was getting the magazines and stuff. And when I moved house, I found some of my old assignments, and I was like, they actually still really enjoy that what I did back then. Like it was, but it's something about staying true to your own style and what that is. I think it was easier back then than that.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

I think it was easier because you wouldn't, yeah, you wouldn't get maybe, and this might not be the right word, that confused by things that you're seeing that are popular or getting attention on social media, so you wouldn't be kind of like influenced by that, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

I think um, if you want to call it trends, which is I think just a word I'm using to describe it, but if you want to call it that, it was there was longer periods, it was like fashion back then, there was longer periods that things were relevant. 100% yeah, you know, that was in an era that was quite minimal anyway, because it was in the sort of 90s after the massive, you know, crash of the end of the 80s. So all of the opulence and everything was was not really a thing to um incorporate into design. And it was very much about, you know, that John Pawson London minimal sort of anti-decoration, almost anti-design, and it was really about pragmatics and architectural forms and and things like that. So I think that was also really embraced in Australia because we didn't have a lot of access to products and information that Europeans or Americans did. So I think in that way, I think it really started to form a very unique Australian take on design. Whereas now, you know, I can see on my phone in bed in the morning, like what's just been launched in New York or Milan, you know, five hours ago or whatever. So I think in terms of what you're saying, it's correct. Like you you deviate from from where you're at and what you're doing because things are changing like hourly, they're not changing like monthly or twice a year like they used to. They actually change every day, like there's something new. So that's so true. It's very hard to stay focused.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

It's funny how you know, like because I part of what I do is looking at trends and and what's happening and what's developing, and I can look back at that stage where I would wait with anticipation for that big, thick fashion mag that had

Image Culture Versus Real Quality

SPEAKER_01 9:31

all the runway stuff in it, because we relied a lot on fashion then to predict trends. And I wouldn't see it. Now I see it exactly like you said. I can pick up my phone and see it five hours after in the morning and and kind of like dissect it, but I would wait for that magazine and like devour that, and that's how we'd do it. So everything just took much longer to to see and to develop, and now we see it before it's even actually happened, particularly in Australia, because it takes a long time for say everything we see in Milan to actually arrive here and then start to have an impact on that.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Do you also think though that you know when you used to get the magazine, you'd probably really study it and you know the image was probably eager, but now like you see a small image, because most people use the phone. Um, you see a small image, you probably look at it for one or two seconds, you know, and then you move on to the next image. So I don't think anyone's really sort of looking at or analyzing the quality or how things are made or how they're put together.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

That's true. I would say I'm probably not the not the typical person because it depends what it is. I definitely do a lot of analysing and I go back to things and I do a bit of a rabbit hole deep dive into stuff that I think's are you are you a screenshot or an enlarger? Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

And also the screenshots on my phone are out of control. I actually need to go back because you know when you go back and go, I don't even know what that was.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Like, yeah, yeah. But I think you're right, David. Like I remember, you know, you'd buy a magazine, which was an investment when you're a student, and it was quite formative, like what magazine you happened to pick up. And I would look through every page. I would even colour photocopy some pages that I really liked. And I you used to be, you used to get like a really fleshed out sort of um, you know, almost home tour where you could sort of virtually almost piece the photos together to create how the floor plan worked. Like, yeah, I I agree, but now you what you say, you just flip through, you flip through, you flip through. It's very surface level. Um but yeah, it is a different, it's just a different world, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 11:29

It's a whole different way of looking at things. Yeah, and I think that it's a little bit dangerous in a way because I think that people are judging things so quickly, and you know, especially in design, and it's really now about the impact, it's not really about anything else. Yeah, no, so it's definitely where's it going? Do you know what I mean? Like, because I've I've seen things on Instagram that are all over Instagram that think, wow, that's so beautiful. Like it might be a boutique hotel in Paris or something like that. And then when you go there and you actually look at it in real life and you think it's actually not put together very well, you c I kind of get a little bit let down.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yeah, it's the smoke and mirrors thing that we were talking about before. Yeah. And that's what I guess, you know, a whole big part of my job is also photographic styling. And even in a real house, the shots you see are usually not that representative of the real home unless it just happens to shoot beautifully, because we might move a chair into a corner where you would never have that chair. And just to create a magic moment for the image. So yeah, it's they are very different things, but it's also unfortunate it's not influencing it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yeah. I mean, it's also talking about that, it's also the technology now that allows you to, you know, photoshop

Retail Years And Film Photography

SPEAKER_00 12:48

things out, or you know, you might only have one chair, but you could take a photo and place it in different spots around the table and then overlay all the photos so that so that you have four chairs, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

That's so ridiculous, isn't it, what we do.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah. Uh so when we used to shoot projects, um, we used to it'll be all be shot on film, but you know, when you're setting up and to do a proof to see what the setup and everything is like, you'd do a Polaroid, right? Because it was film, you couldn't actually see the image. And then you can't really Photoshop the film. So it was what you saw is actually what the space was.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Yes, you could trust it now. You can't trust anything you see with AI and everything.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I don't yeah, it's not so much trust, but I don't think that like you know, you see houses now in magazines that are clearly completely styled, like they've bought a whole truckload of stuff in and they've styled the house and moved all the other furniture out. And if you look at, you know, some some magazines that have you know, say six projects in it, you can actually see the same stylist has done all the projects.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Yeah, so yeah, or or that it might not even be the same stylist, it can just be from the same showrooms because and I can pick that too because I know exactly what's out there having to do that sourcing. So sometimes I'll pick up a um a magazine and I'll go, well, I know that's not actually in the house because that particular colour and fabric is from the showroom and they would have loaned it and put it in.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

So there is, I mean, yeah, there's kind of that, I guess a fine line between what you're looking at in terms of is that the whole project? Because it depends where you go. Like I I know you sort of go into that decorating as well as design, whereas a lot of projects are just kind of the architect, and then it it's whatever the homeowner had. So they have to bring in a styles to be able to shoot it properly because they don't even have no one's done that part of the work. So the styles kind of does that part of the work to an extent. Yeah. But um, yeah, the Polaroid thing, I've only ever done one shoot. My very first shoot was with Polaroid, so I was just at the end of that. Wouldn't it be cool to get your hands on those?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Um, we used to do a lot of retail and we used to have because there was no such thing as like LED or anything like that. It was all like fluoro tubes, and we used to have to go in probably about two or three hours before we started the shoot and wrap all of the tubes with like yellow plastic with some cut kind of film that then made the light warm so it didn't look like 7-Eleven. Really?

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Because I think that's how I know your work through your retail projects like Alana Hill and like back in the day, right? They were absolutely stunning, those stores. And what was another one that you did on Chapel Street? Oh my god, I didn't. You did, you really were across everything.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

We did um we did a lot for Caliber, Batennaliano, Alana Hill. Um, we did some stuff for Witchery, we did all of the King Furniture Showroom. Um we used to do a lot of retail, uh, but right back in the beginning, like with certain stores, we that's what we used to have to do. We used to have to like gel everything.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, so it's a really different time.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

It is a different time, and those Alana Hill stores are that just stands out to me because they were an absolute treat to visit, weren't they?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

The Bettina Leano jeans, they were like that's a load of jeans. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Look,

Decorative Minimalism Explained

SPEAKER_00 16:01

it was really it was interesting doing the Alana stores because it's not really something that you would associate with what I do, but it was a lot of fun because I could use the same sort of principles and detailing and and knowledge with space planning and retail design in those projects, but then also really explore the decorative, colourful side as well. So, I mean, if you look at those projects against my other projects and don't look at the colours and the and the text everything, you'll see a lot of the same kind of like detailing and you know, that more precise kind of modernist designer setting.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

Well, this is really interesting, and I was curious to know with your work because you know you were talking about your apartment, which was quite a minimalist apartment, the project that kind of launched your career, would you say?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Um, look, I don't know whether it launched my career, but it certainly was, you know, what do they say? When you start when a designer sport architect starts their business, you always do stuff for family or friends or you know, things like that. So yeah, I think it I think it was something amazing to have, but I think that's generally for a lot of people, it was probably too confronting. Like a lot of people wouldn't want to live in a space like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Um but then on the other hand, as you were saying, you know, your Alana Hill stores, which were more decorative, and it's really interesting that you do both equally as strong, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Was they like uh um it's the same fundamentals, it's the same fundamentals that I use in uh in my projects, and then like because I look at it as three separate things. So I look at it as architecture, um, then interior design, but then I look at it as decoration. So, you know, the finishes that you choose on materials and the colours and things like that, they're really more decorative. Um, you know, interior design is you know, designing of um joinery and designing of um, you know, how the floor pattern is going to be, but then you choose the stone or the different materials that have the colour and the pattern. Uh so then there's a more architectural side which deals with the planning and uh, you know, how you integrate services like mechanical or structural engineering or things like that. So I always look at it as those three things working as one.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah. And at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

So like if you if you have that, yeah. I mean, if you have that, you can then the first two stages are pretty similar. So the architectural stage and the interior design stage, but then the decorative stage is what allows you to play and change things. So, you know, you could have like a plain fabric on the wall, or you could have like an outrageous fabric on the wall. So that's what switches things up, and that's where I probably didn't have much knowledge on the decorative side of things when I started. Um, and that's something that I've really sort of taught myself and learnt about as I progressed through my career because I think that's a really important part of design. Um and it's becoming a lot more important. It never used to be. So I think the word decoration now is not like as dirty as it used to be. When I when I started, you were either you were either an architect, you were either an interior designer, or you were either a decorator. You were never all three together.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, we've talked about this before where we have back then. I would have been really insulted if people had called me a decorator.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And um, and used to explain to people, no, no, no, I'm not a decorator, like I'm an interior designer, and like tried to tell what the different because people I think associated them as the same thing if you weren't in the industry, but yeah, you couldn't care less because I think decorating

Discipline And Intuition In Practice

SPEAKER_01 19:25

actually can be more fun sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Exactly. But you also see the 360 as well, like you see all of the architects now, and they'll have architecture and interior design.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah. Because they don't want to miss out on they used to be looking down on us while we looked down on the decorators.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

But I also think, you know, I think if you've studied architecture, they look down hopefully not so much anymore, but they might look down on decorators, um, but they think they can do that. They think that because they're architects, they can do that. And I actually think that decoration is such a um special. Skill. You know, we were talking about when we started this chat, you've got this sublime fabric hanging in your background, that data fabric, like working with fabrics, working with proportion and scale, and all of those things a decorator does. Like, I mean, I would be terrified if you asked me to measure up a window.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

It's just not my skill set. So I think that it's really nice to see that decoration has, as you said, it's not like a dirty word, what it used to be. I feel like it's really changed.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

But it's also, I mean, decoration is like hundreds and hundreds of years old. It's like, you know, it's just not really taught anymore. There's there is so much knowledge to be learned about the decorative arts, you know, which a lot of designers don't know about. You know, it's like periods of furniture, it's like how specific furniture, why it was finished in a certain way, you know, um periods of fabric, how is, you know, how is it woven? What material is it woven out of? You know, does it shrink or does it know? Um, it just goes on and on and on. Like uh it's like architecture and design, it's like also something that's um there's there's just so much history and so much to learn about. And I think as I've progressed through my career, I've kind of taken the the thought that it's better to know everything as much as possible, even the things you don't like or don't want to implement. Because you know, you can then if if a client wants to implement something or use something, you can then actually tell them the story about it and why you don't want to use it and be more authoritative about something. Yes. So I think you know it's it's like the old saying, knowledge is power.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

100%.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

So good. Um, I'm watching the Gilded Age at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Have you watched that? Yeah. I don't really have to wait for more episodes though.

unknown 21:45

I know.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Like it's not really an era that I would have been drawn to, but I mean you have to appreciate how incredible it is. And I think that the way that design is taught and architecture is taught in Australia, it starts at the Bauhaus.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

And we're just missing out on so much. So yeah, I totally yeah, agree what you say there.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah. I think that though, well, I mean, what you were saying is I think that it's also a reflection on I suppose how young Australia is, and we don't have such a vast history of uh architecture and design and decoration. So I think you know, we don't go too much further back, past sort of mid-century or twenties. Um because we don't have a lot of that history.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

If you do go down Chapel Street, as we sort of mentioned, like there are

The Work Behind The Glamour

SPEAKER_02 22:30

1880s. If you look at the dates on the top of the buildings, you know, there was a huge, yeah, a whole I just wonder if we value it enough here, the history of anything.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Like, you know, when you I'm I'm going up on a slight tangent and I'll pull it back, but you know, the amount of even just beautiful buildings, residential buildings that will be knocked down and not looked after. And and we're gonna lose a lot of that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Oh, we've already lost so much. Like if you look at um old photos of St. Kilda Road and Turak Road and there were mansions all the way down.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, even on um Turac Road, you know, opposite Faulkner Park, there's this incredible mansion, and they've kept uh we we might keep a facade, but then we absolutely got the interior. I was so crossed to see what they'd done. I was like, what about the staircase that was there? What about all of the mouldings inside? Is that is the exterior the only thing that's poisoned?

SPEAKER_01 23:27

That is, I think part of that is, and I guess you see it to some extent in the UK, where it's just so much money to maintain some of these buildings that there's no one putting the money into it because they just don't nobody cares enough about it, or it's been let go to the point where it can't be maintained without it.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Or it costs so much to maintain it. Yeah, yeah. But you know, that's why you see in the countryside, um, probably more so in Italy and France, is that you know they're basically trying to give these houses away because it's gonna cost more on it. It's gonna cost you five or ten million to like to to to bring it back to life. So they uh see that.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Um that was in that episode of uh episode the series, the White Lotus series in Italy. That was the whole thing about why they they looked like they were all cashed off and had money, but actually that was so broke because they was putting all the money in to try and maintain just that home.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

So, David, I'm so curious because I've been in business for 12 years, not as long as you, but I've been in an interior designer for a bit longer than that. How do you stay creatively energized after designing 800 or so apartments, 75 homes, and 125 retail spaces, not that I'm counting.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Some stats for you, bloody hell.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

I know when I was putting them together, when I was putting them together for my um birthday speech, it was like because we're we're counting up all the projects because you know we've got like the full history of everything. And I just thought, wow, okay, well, no wonder I'm exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Explains a lot.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Do you find your creative in between all of that?

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Did you find your creativity, does it ebb and flow, or is it kind of steady, or how do you maintain that, you know, that energy?

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Uh I think it is I think the energy is more in um, you know, constantly keeping the business going and and you know, getting jobs and sort of perfecting the the art of client experience and expectations and all of that. So I think that's where a lot of the drive is for me. But in terms of creativity, I kind of it's more subconscious for me. Like I don't like say I go to Milan, I I mean I don't take a lot of photos. I don't like um because you know, like you said before, I mean, all you do is end up with them all on your phone and you can't find them anyway. So I think for me it's more it's more like intuitive. So like I might be sitting down and looking at a concept and then I might think, oh, I actually saw that, you know, doorway in Milan and or I saw this on Instagram or and it kind of comes back and then I look at incorporating it. But you know, that's just the way that I work. It's like even in client meetings, I don't write anything down, and people get really kind of an ill bit funny about that because they think, is he really listening to me? Is he gonna remember? So that's the way I kind of work. Like yeah, I kind of attacked.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Yeah, it's cool. I agree with that, with the Milan thing or with that inspiration. Probably even to an extent, you know, even though I am a screenshotter, I never hardly ever look back at those things. But I guess if you've taken a moment to take interest

Team Size, Process, And Control

SPEAKER_01 26:28

in it, it makes some kind of imprint on you. And I think that's how we I guess make something new of the things we see and not just copy what they are. Those those all those little moments kind of sink in, and then you kind of come out with something that's maybe influenced by those things but is different.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

And I think that's a particular way of working. I mean, I there's some other people that might have big boards and like clean everything to the boards and you know, make a story, you know, which is fine. Um, it's just not the way that I do things. So yeah, I mean, I keep the creativity by you know traveling and learning about, you know, um the decorative arts and going to flea markets and you know, really researching things. Like I might see something on Instagram or in a magazine and think, oh, that's really interesting. But rather than retain that image, I will I will actually go on Google and you know really try and learn more about that. So it then becomes a bit more ingrained rather than just keeping an image. So I'm a little bit more into the history behind things than than just the image.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Um you've said design is both about the discipline and intuition, which is kind of like a little what you're saying, but how do you know whether to be guided by that intuition versus the the discipline?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Uh I I think there's different um uh the different roles that they play into this into a project. So for me, discipline would probably be more about the space planning and the detail and you know, learning how things are going to work together. So, you know, even down to like you know, thicknesses of materials and how can they be used and you know, how are they actually fixed to the wall or the floor and how do they what's the edge like and how's that going to be when it butts into something else? So I think that makes that is kind of the more rigorous side of it. And then I think the intuitive side is a bit more um of the free um freeness of it, which is you know, you're not, you know, when you're looking at materials and everything and you're not sure about what to use and things like that, your intu intuition kind of takes over and starts to put all of those more decorative things together. So I think for me they sort of play off each other.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah. So yeah, you can't just be like, oh, I'm gonna use my intuition to judge that that support is going to be enough to hold the It's so true though.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

No, I feel like I feel like being good at the details. So you can have amazing intuition and and and concepts and all of that stuff, but if you don't have the discipline side, understanding how materials work and can come together, I think it's really hard to get all that detailing beautifully, you know, like precise. And that's what for your projects that definitely stands out as something, you know, that you do very well is the details, and then there's the layer of that intuition kind of over the top of it. So it kind of gives this sort of structure to

Clients, Press, And Authenticity

SPEAKER_01 29:15

your projects in a way.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yeah. Um but I also I also think that you know, uh you you can have a good idea and put together a great concept and you know, it could be absolutely phenomenal, but if you can't deliver it, then is it a good idea? I don't know, like no one's gonna see it.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

So agree, agree. There is a lot more to interior design than creating some beautiful mood boards.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah, well, exactly. I mean, when people say what do you do and I say interior design, they go, Oh wow, like you know, I've always wanted to do that. How amazing. It must be so much fun, right? And then I think I think if you saw what I did 90% of the day, you wouldn't want to be an interior designer.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

I agree. It's like it is fun most of the time, and obviously we wouldn't do it if we didn't love it. And I don't think that would show in in the quality of the work if you didn't have the love, but people don't understand that it's not all just, oh, this is pretty and like sometimes exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

I mean, sometimes I feel like I'm a um, what do I say to the guys and others? I say, I feel like I'm a desk clerk, like you know, with all my paperwork and you know, returning that feeling, you know, stapling things together and putting them in trays, and it's you know, and then for 10 minutes that day I might look at some fabrics. So yeah, it's it's very, very different, I think, to what people perceive.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

And I've had your team. Sorry, how how many people do you have on your team, David?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

So there's only three of us. Um that's nice. I've always kept the I've always kept the office really small. Um, I think the the most we've been over 25 years is seven. Um, but I because I like to be very heavily involved in all the projects, um not just design, but in project management and client interface as well, I've kept the office small to enable me to do that because I I I like the whole process. I don't want to end up just doing like 10% of the process.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Or just managing staff, managing people. Like that's that's not for me. Yeah. Yeah. So when you said before like 90%, you know, that they don't see what what is that 90%? What does that look like? You know, you mentioned a desk clerk swimming in emails, which I feel like an absolute avalanche of emails every day. But I'm curious, like what what does your day-to-day look like?

SPEAKER_00 31:27

So, you know, it can be anything really, but a lot of the time it's uh, you know, like marking things up, marking, marking up details, marking up drawings, sending up people, CAD files, putting together drop boxes, um, yeah, you know, writing information for media to do, to do press stories, uh, can be some accounting, can be, you know, it could be anything like that. It's not, it's not necessarily standing around and putting light samples together and creating a concept.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah. You know, I um had a client meeting the other day and there I was literally doing the interior decorator thing, waving around a fabric hanger. And she said, Oh my gosh, you have the best job. You're so lucky, all these fabrics, these tiles. And and this client, she works in corporate, she's got a really high pressure job, and she's really like so intelligent. And I'm just like, oh my god, this is like you're waving around fabric. It's like your job is insane to me. Like, you are just next level. So it's and it is funny, isn't it? That perception, it's like, this is the only time I literally wave around a fabric is to show you what it's gonna look like every other time I'm behind my screen or all the things you said, drop boxes and going nuts with all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

So it's like, you know, you're waving you're waving around the fabric, and if they say something like that, it's like, well, do you know? Do you know how many other fabrics I had to look at just to bring you this one fabric?

SPEAKER_01 32:53

That's what I was gonna say. 100 billion kicking. There is such a thing as fabric overwhelm. I find fabrics I love them, but I can walk into a showroom and just in the end walk out feeling worse than I did when I walked in, unless you just found that thing, like, that's it. It can just be so many things. And when and I like too many of them, so you've got to try to like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Yeah, or you know, the the other funny thing about it as well is like, you know, you might be looking for say a red velvet, but

Market Shifts: Melbourne To Sydney

SPEAKER_00 33:20

then you look at about 50 red velvets, but they're not the right red. And you know, it's like having a massive ward, it's like having a massive wardrobe and going in there and and like complaining I've got nothing to wear.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I know I'm like, there's something wrong with me because you guys have got 1,000 different types of red there. I must be able to find it here, but I can't. There's something wrong with me. What what about that extra 10%? What's the stuff that you love doing?

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Uh well, I actually like all of that other part as well, the process part. But I do love, I love sketch, like I do hand sketching. Um, I love putting together like material palettes and looking at different finishes and materials. Um, I also really enjoy, I do a lot of detailing by hand before the guys put on to the computer. So I like sort of working through and thinking about how something's going to be put together. I still do that.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

So I think maybe it comes from learning that way.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Yeah, it's more, I think the really enjoyable parts are the more, you know, doing things with your hands almost. Um because I don't know how to use CAD. Uh so I'm very much a print it out and read it kind of person or a um, you know, sketch it with a pen.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah, love it. I have kind of upped my game slightly in this. I like to, I'm a sketcher too. It's just how I get everything from here out of, I don't know. I don't know how else to communicate. Um, but I now do it on my iPad. So at least it's digital, so it's easy to kind of put it into documents and things instead of just on on paper. Sometimes I do it better on paper though. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I find that sorry, I was gonna say I might do like a quick sketch on a piece of paper and go, oh yep, I'll do that now. And then I'd go to do it on the iPad and it's never as good.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

No, I know that it's um yeah, it's funny like the way that you you've taught yourself over the years because even even like when I get you know document sent to me or you know, it's say a legal document or something like that. Uh like you know how people like do it on on the screen and they'll put like a comment box or whatever. I always like print it out, red pen all over it, cross it out, scan it, send it back. People hate it.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

I just feel like it sinks into your brain better when you see it on a piece of paper. I don't know, I miss stuff on the screen. So I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

It's apparently that's uh actual fact, like they've done tech they've done, you know, research into it. And it is yeah, you can see if you read a book as opposed to a screen, you take more of it in.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, so coming back to your question, what what's the things I enjoy most? It's the it's the things that I do by hand or you know, like sketching or looking at materials, putting material palettes together. Um, so it's things I'm not really doing on a computer.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah, I hear, yeah. With your book, A Private World of Interiors, that was released, was it 2016 or something? When was that?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Oh god, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

A little while ago. Yeah. Is there like a project in that that really m stands out that you're like, oh my god, that was like really special. Can you play favorites?

SPEAKER_00 36:19

I find it very hard to play favourites. Um trying to think of the projects in there.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Um and sometimes they're favorite for different reasons. Like sometimes I've had projects where I really enjoyed working with the client. And when it came to photographing it, I wanted to include their some of their pieces and and stuff. Uh, but then pitching it to press, it didn't really, they didn't really pick it up. But I was like, I still love that project. Like, you know, like it's not always just about how it looks in the photos at the end of the day. It's like the people and how cool they were and how much they love their home. Like it's fulfilling in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah, look, I think there's a couple in there where we designed the building, the interior, and did the decoration. So I think for me, there's there's

The Future: Products And Projects

SPEAKER_00 37:10

two houses in there that um have that full, you know, rounding off of of what we do. And I think they're very fulfilling because you can kind of sculpt the whole project from start to end and you're not relying on other consultants, um, like another architect or um, you know, a stylist or sorry, uh you're not relying on other external people. Uh so I think there's a couple of those where I think, oh wow, they're just really, really amazing projects because we were able to be involved in everything.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

Yeah, we're not control freaks at all. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

We want to do it all, we want to have our hands on everything, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Yeah, I mean, there's also another project in there which is a beautiful old house, and we mainly did decorative works to it. I would say it's more of a decorative project than an interior project. But that I also love. Like I love the whole process of of really getting into like, you know, all the fabrics and the furniture and custom furniture and, you know, wallpaper and curtains and it was really refreshing not to have to it was refreshing to start with something amazing and then just add that embellishment to it without changing the original um house.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Yeah, that's cool. If you could travel back to young David, fresh out of RMIT, what advice would you give him before he started his practice?

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Um, go back and study banking.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

That's hilarious. Why? That is so funny.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Um, because I don't like we were saying before, I don't think people realise how hard it actually is uh what we do. And it's something that you have to have a passion for to stay in this industry.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Agree.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

It's not so true. It's it's an industry that you can have a great business and a great life and all of that sort of stuff, but it's not something to do with you want to make a stack load of money. Um it was a bit of a joke, but um it's so funny. I probably wouldn't have done it, I probably wouldn't have done anything else. I mean, that's the only thing that I've ever wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

You could have studied banking on like you know, stock stocks and all of that, and and then just sort of done that in the background so that could make your money while you do while you do the interior design.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Maybe I should have just married a banker if that's that's an easier way then you could afford to employ an interior designer.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

That's right. And then just have a nice business.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Yeah, we um I used to j I used to joke with a friend of mine and we used to say, you know, I want to be, I want to be I want to be so successful that I have enough money to employ an interior designer to do my house.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I know. It'd be such a luxury though, wouldn't it? To to like pick your favorite other interior designer and get them to actually come and do something for you. I actually think I'd really enjoy being the client.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

It'd be wild, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 39:58

But I think it's so true though. Thank you for for saying that because um it's competitive, it's tough, you have to wear many hats. Um you do. Yeah, you've got to be like, I'm gonna march on, I don't really mind what you say, I'm just gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Um it's like what you said before with that project that you really like and still like, but it wasn't picked up um by editorial. So there's you know, if you if you're in it for the adoration, then you know you're not gonna last very long.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah. Well, at the end of the day, it's my client's property, it's their home.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

And I think um, because I just enjoyed working with them so much and I wanted to put in some of their personality into the space while with their special pieces. But the funny thing is, um, it it only got a few images picked up here and there by the different press. But it's on my website and it's actually one that other clients talk about.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

So it's something about they can probably see that personality and connection to the client, maybe. Whereas magazines are looking for something entirely different sometimes and they don't see it.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

So, I mean, that's another thing that you have to do as well. It's you have to stick by what you believe in and what you do, even if it is not so popular for a while. Or, you know, like at the moment there's a definite look going on and it's completely different to what I do. So, you know, I'm not gonna go jump on that bandwagon because I like what I do. Yes. Um, I I think that you have to be quite stoic and um whether the whether the the storm of other design and you know, trying to stay relevant and there's this.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

I do think in the end, I think in the end though, what makes a great designer is one that is authentic and stays true to that. Because I think if you continually change yourself to fit the narrative, the current narrative, you will get lost in it anyway. You won't stand out, right? You're just gonna be another one of the people that are just kind of doing the same thing. Yeah. And it's the you know, like if you look at any great artist like music, yes, you have to evolve, but you evolve for yourself in your own, you know, direction and where you want to go, you don't do it for, I don't know, the popularity. I mean, of course some people do, but like it does, I don't think that you you don't stand out doing it that way.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Coming back to that question, you said, you know, what do you do? What do you do for what's a typical day look like um for you? And it, you know, to use an analogy, it could be like, well, I bang my head against a brick wall for like seven hours and then I and then I'll put out fires.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

I'm putting out fires of things that have gone sideways and exploded. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Put a well, yeah, you could probably say you bang your head against a brick wall for four hours, put out fires for three hours, and then do a half an hour of design.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Um it's so funny. And then finish with a bottle of wine.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

It's an addiction, you know. You you wouldn't you wouldn't be doing it if you weren't addicted to it.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Well, we probably as much as we kind of hate some of those parts of those things, I think we probably also all enjoy the roller coaster of it, right? We kind of thrive on the ups and downs. If it was steady and boring, we wouldn't be in this job.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Uh 100%. And you also try to you're also trying to better it next time. So there's always like um Yeah, the challenge of that, a hundred the challenge and the look looking forward to the next one, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yeah, that's very true.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

The carrot dangling.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah, the continual carrot.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

But it's so funny because I think your business, David, it that does look very glamorous and luxurious. So, you know, it does, it's quite different to what you're saying. The daily struggles, like it's it's real, isn't it? It's not all the the glamorous side of it that we do every day.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

No, not at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

And you know, it is hard as well. In residential, I don't know so much about commercial, but you know, there's ebbs and flows in the market, like there is a dip happening in Melbourne, as far as I can see, that uh talking to a lot of designers are really quiet. So, you know, it's what's happening in the world, all of these different things can trickle down and shape our little tiny businesses. Well, for me anyway. And those things are just out of your control. But how what's your sort of split now? Are you doing commercial and and resie?

SPEAKER_00 44:14

So we do we're doing a lot of um uh like private work. I call it private work, so you know, houses or apartments, but we also do quite a bit of decorative stuff as well, and we've got the other side of it is we do um increasingly more really high-end resi development stuff. So there might only be like five apartments or ten apartments. Um, but it's funny what you say about the Melbourne market. Like I think probably 80% of our work is in Sydney at the moment. Seriously? So, yeah, so it's it's it's interesting. And um I think Melbourne will start to pick up again towards the end of the year, but I think it's been very sort of Sydney focused for the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

100%. I'm hearing the same thing talking to Sydney designers about how you know the Melbourne market has dropped off and it and it's quiet, inquiry-wise and and just generally work-wise for so many of us. But then I speak to people in Sydney and they're like, we're not experiencing that at all. So it is interesting. I think Melbourne still has a very big COVID hangover.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Yeah, I think so. And I think, but I also think the dynamics have changed um in terms of Resi projects. I think there's there's less people renovating or decorating houses because a lot of them are going into um these sort of like larger apartment style, you know, luxury um residential developments. Um, and I feel like the the that resie work is more architectural. Um, you know, where it's probably a younger demographic building their home family home, they're more concerned about the architectural side of it than the actual decorative side of it because, you know, they've got kids and they've got lifestyle and they've got all of that, and it's got to be a bit more practical. And so I really think the landscape of of the resi type of work has changed. Um and if you're not in that development space as well, I think it would be very hard at the moment because there's not a huge amount of like individual resi work, I don't think, unless you're an architect.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

Yeah, so I I think it really has shifted. And I think that Resi, Resi work used to be kind of like, oh, you know, like you kind of do it if you have to. But um I honest, I I honestly think it's the future of Melbourne and Sydney. And that's where, you know, a lot of Resi for interiors, a lot of Resi um projects are going to come from because you know, land's too expensive, building a whole house is too expensive, a lot more people are buying into apartments. And a lot of people that buy into apartments might not have kids or their kids are older, or you know, they might have more than one house, or so they can afford to be a little bit more, you know, frivolous in in how things are designed and use like, you know, cream carpets and use this and use that because they don't have to worry about you know dogs or kids or um. But then it's the grandkids that's like it can be the grandkids, but you know, we do have some clients like that, but they they the grandkids are only allowed in certain rooms. Love it. So I don't I do think there's a shift.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, so I mean with 25 years in business, you know, you really there's been a global financial crisis, there's been COVID, there's been like, you know, so many things, and I think what we're experiencing now is just another dip. But um, I'm curious what is what is um on the cards for the next 25 years for David Hicks?

SPEAKER_00 47:31

Oh god, next 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

It's wild, isn't it, to think about a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Uh it's a long time to go. Um gosh, I don't know. A couple of faces.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Is it Eastern Bull now that we go to? Is it Turkey or something? A few trips to Turkey.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Um look at that.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

It's a different kind of architecture, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 47:54

It's a difficult question. I I think I will probably start at some stage doing my own projects as well. Um in terms of like kind of development, but maybe you know, build a house and uh, you know, sell that and probably do a few things like that, um, continue what I'm doing. Um, I'm moving a little bit into collabs in product. So that's all exciting. Yeah, it's really exciting. So we're doing a range of uh tapware with Sussex.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Oh my gosh, I love Sussex. They're like my favorite tapware brand. Yeah, it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Yeah, she's great. So we've we've designed a range with them, which will be coming out later this year. Um yeah, we're also working with another um company, which I can't really say, but it's a you know bathroom sort of product. Great. And then we're talking to another one about you know something else. So it's sort of deviating into um things that we use in all of our projects, but things that we can't find what we want. Yes, yes. Like we can find we can find it overseas, but it's so expensive. So it's kind of bringing because I think a lot of like ranges in Australia, everything's really slick and like very minimal and very like there's not really any um I agree. You know, there's not really any sort of decorative or or interesting finishes or things like that. So it's more about bringing that more sort of European style to the products that are also made in Australia.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Green. So what else have you got something that you haven't that you're not doing that you'd love to do, like fabric range, wallpaper, I don't know, car interiors?

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Um probably things out there. Into in terms of product, probably fabric, but because I could see you doing that. I think that would that could come, but in terms of projects, I mean I'd love to do a hotel, a boutique hotel. Yeah, that'd be pretty amazing. Uh, I don't know, just bigger houses with bigger budgets, I hope.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

Yeah, it's too much to ask. Come on, come on, universe.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Come on, they

Acknowledgement Of Country

SPEAKER_00 49:55

yeah, they should be knocking my door down. What's going on?

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Yes, so good. Oh, so good. Thanks, David. Thank you so much for the chat. That was so fun. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. Congratulations again on 25 years.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create, and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present, and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.