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Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
YouTube channel launching soon.
Design Anatomy
Best of Design Anatomy Series: Bringing Nostalgia into Interiors with Brahman Perera
Design Anatomy will be releasing a 'Best of' series starting today, revisiting some of our most admired, inspirational & popular episodes for you to enjoy over the holiday season! Bree & Lauren will be back with more amazing guests early 2026
Join us on an insightful journey with the talented designer Brahman Perera as we uncover the past year's highlights in interior design. Ever wondered how rest can spark creativity, or how the cultural tapestry influences your work?
Brahman shares his unique perspective on the power of taking a step back for innovation and how embracing one's cultural identity can transform design. We also highlight the heartwarming generosity within the design community and how these bonds foster genuine friendships and mutual support, especially in vibrant cities like Melbourne.
Explore the fascinating intersection of diversity and design, where personal stories and multicultural backgrounds shape our understanding of identity. We dive into the success story of Brahman's Hopper Joint that opened in March this year, a celebration of Sri Lankan street food that reflects the rich cultural heritage of its founders. The conversation doesn't stop there; we dig into the critical need for more diversity in interior design, particularly in public spaces, to mirror our multicultural societies. Brahma and I emphasize that recognizing and valuing diversity can lead to more inclusive and meaningful designs.
From the evolution of retail design trends to the impact of COVID-19 on commercial and residential spaces, we touch on the dynamic nature of design and the need for adaptability. Whether it's reimagining a spare room or integrating unique elements into retail spaces, thoughtful design can significantly enhance everyday living. Finally, we celebrate the blending of nostalgia and sustainability, highlighting how personal connections and cherished items can create timeless, functional spaces.
Brahman Perera's amazing work can be seen here on his website & instagram
Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment.
Bookings now open - Book now
Join Lauren online for a workshop to help break down the Design steps to run your project & business a little smoother with the Design Process MasterClass, opening 15th October!
For more info see below
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the Interior Design Podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Bree Banfield.
SPEAKER_00:And me, Lauren Lee, with some amazing guest appearances along the way.
SPEAKER_01:We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.
SPEAKER_00:With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, we're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you. And in this engaging conversation, we talk with Brahma Pereira and we look back on the past year, sharing our thoughts on the value of rest and creativity, the generosity we've seen in the design community, and how cultural identity plays a role in our work.
SPEAKER_01:And we dive into how food can be a way to celebrate diversity and discuss the role of nostalgia in sustainable design, highlighting the importance of forming meaningful connections with the things we choose to keep in our spaces. Throughout this conversation, we explore the key elements of interior design, how personal connection, functionality, and practicality all come together to create spaces that truly resonate with clients.
SPEAKER_00:And I just think that, you know, I've been thinking about a conversation with Brem since we recorded it the other day. All of these little gold nuggets that he shared with us that we were just chatting about him just before. I hope that you guys really enjoy this episode because I loved chatting with Brem.
SPEAKER_01:Oh it's super engaging, and Brem is just like an amazing sharer of you know, very open, easy to talk to, so it's really fun as well.
SPEAKER_00:So good, shall we? Shall we? Let's go. Hey Brem, how's it going?
SPEAKER_03:Good, good, great to be here. Happy Christmas as well. Or happy as I'm saying, Loss.
SPEAKER_01:My brain still isn't even there, and I know that's like next week, right? It's next week, isn't it? Allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah, I'm very slow to do this here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's been a yeah, it's been a bit of a oh it creeps up on me, but I say that every year, like it's nothing new anyway.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know why every year feels worse somehow though. Everyone's saying that. I don't know why. I don't know either. I'm just I think we're just in trauma still from the last few years. We're just not recovered.
SPEAKER_00:But a break will be nice. It will be so nice. And Brem, you oh my god, you look like you've been so busy. I bet you're looking forward to a break.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. It's you just to your point, Bri, yeah. Well, I don't I'm still I'm still thinking about this year and like what have actually happened. There's been so much and it's been so on the go. Um and it's interesting to me because I I have a little out of office um spiel that I put in my out-of-office email, and it's about, you know, to be creative and and and to think creatively, you know, you need to rest, you need to read, um, you need to have some quiet moments and things. And then I was thinking today, going, I can't recall when I last had my quiet moment and when I read a book. So I I mean I'm trying to enforce it because for me, that's when I'm, you know, thinking creatively is when you can relax. So lots of, I guess lots of learnings from this year. It's been a good year, but lots of learnings to take into the new year.
SPEAKER_00:I know it's all good in theory, isn't it? Like we know that we should just go for walks and just like, you know, switch off. It's like, oh, I've just got to qu quickly write this email though, and then the whole day's gone, and you're just like, oh my god, what happened?
SPEAKER_01:That's exactly what I do. I'll go, okay, so I'm just gonna get this done, this done, and this done. And then I'm gonna go and take the dog for a walk and it and it just never happens because it just keeps going. Yeah, it's not good.
SPEAKER_00:It is important to recharge the batteries though. So I was thinking, Brim, of the first time I sort of I got to know you, and I can't really exactly remember, but I do remember reading a story on the design files, and it was a really great interview with you and you at the time you were working at Fiona Lynch.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. Yeah. I think I had just moved um to that studio after working for a few years um with Paul and Havish and Hokkey Garfree. Yeah, and there was this opportunity to do this this little pitch with um with Lucy. Lucy's always been um a big champion of of me or of my work anyway. Um, you know, very, very generous with her time. The whole team have been very, very generous with their time and their um sort of celebration of of a lot of my peers as well. So I definitely have a lot of time for for them. Um I know about they've celebrated some pretty big milestones as well this year.
SPEAKER_00:Actually, I saw you run run in so gracefully to their launch, their magazine launch, and then you just then you just like Cinderella, you just disappeared. You didn't leave a shoe for us.
SPEAKER_03:No shoe. That was terrible. I already had an event on that night, but I just and I I'm trying to, you know, to your point before about yeah, I just just so much on at the moment. I try not to commit to too many things in one night because I kind of think it's actually a bit rude. Like I, you know, when you can't be present when you're meant to be present. Um, but I but for Lucy, I just thought I couldn't get out of this other event and we'll go with a client. And um, I just I had to go and see her and got some flowers and and just wish them, even though it was I had the Uber just wait around the corner. I just sort of rapping every kids, took a photo in a moment.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I actually you sort of said you thought it was it would be rude to do that, and I thought it was actually the opposite. I thought that obviously you've got something like you've got a lot of stuff on, and I just thought that you've gone all the way out of your way just to be there and just to do the thing and say hello and then you were off. I thought that was really cool.
SPEAKER_03:Oh I just I just think like there are there are certain people, you know, who really um, you know, they're very, very special. So it's not just Lucy, but but I mean people in my really, really generous um with their time. It's not just even publishing or even this amazing opportunity to chat with you both, you know, on top of our sort of more social friendship. It's um I just find that like in the last few years, it's it's generosity. It's people who sort of go, let me do something for you with no potential or foreseeable gain for me in any possible way. You know, let me introduce you to someone, let me uh give you some thoughts that I had um randomly the other day about your website. Um, you know, that that there are people out there who who are kind of got in my corner. Um and you know, sometimes you sort of forget to just say to them, wow, that was a really, really amazingly thoughtful thing that you did with with no um concept of any sort of reciprocation. Um but I would hope that that happens anyway. Um so I just I just sort of think to myself, industry isn't that difficult. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:I do think I do think that it's very generous. And it's always amazing when that happens. And I think that it also just for me um creates these amazing friendships, yeah, that aren't based on exactly what we said, like again, or it's just that you all have a love of what you do. And so you kind of want to encourage people and you want everyone to kind of do well. So uh yeah, generosity. I haven't really thought about that word, but I do think that our industry is quite generous. But I I find particularly in Melbourne as well, um, that we have such a great community. So yeah, that's nice to hear that.
SPEAKER_00:But I think it also speaks to you, Brim, because um I think somebody could look at your work and I just feel like it's so you feel the passion, you feel that that inspiration. And I think that is like a magnet to people as well. So yeah, I think that attracts people. So that's really nice. But um, you know, the the same with Lucy. I mean, I mean, I can't, I'll I won't even start bashing about how much she's you know supported me in my business as well. She's just, I mean, she's been on this podcast too, and yeah, so she's just the best, isn't she?
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Mutual love here.
SPEAKER_00:So it's it's a fan club. It's a Lucy fan club.
SPEAKER_01:It is, I do, I do think you have quite a magnetic personality though, Bram. I mean, I remember the first time we met was, I think we were both talking on a panel. I want to say there was a panel. Was it a panel or a judgey sort of thing? I think it was, I think it was a panel. Always judging. Yeah, we just do that in our spare time. What are you talking about? Um, but you know, just immediately uh was able to chat to you and you're very open and and you were on that panel. I can't even remember what we were talking about, but I think those three of us talking about was probably about colour or something like that. Um maybe the old Denfair somewhere.
SPEAKER_03:I think it might have been the old Denfair. I think it might have been a panel and definitely about colour. I'm sure that you're right. Um but look, it's it's something that you have to kind of again. This is all in the scheme of like my work. It's you know, I've been working for a long, long time, but only technically on my own for the last few years. But but it's in the it's in the last few years that that kind of understanding is has is slowly um solidifying. And and you kind of have to reevaluate um, you know, yourself all the time anyway. I I think any any good normal person would. But um, but but it's I find it kind of interesting. It's sort of a myth that like if you are in this world, you do need to be uh, I don't know, you need to speak well and be charismatic and sort of know how to do everything all at once. And you need to call them and all of that. And I do think that you do, like I think you need to make an effort, but um there are um some amazing designs out there who are kind of quiet and stick to their lane and just do what they need to do and do beautiful, beautiful work. And I think that what's nice is that they're still successful and people people find them and follow the work. So ultimately, I think you need to follow, follow the work, follow someone who, you know, morals align with you. Um it is nice, and I think just through hospitality and whatever, I I kind of feel quite comfortable um, you know, to try to give some fun a podcast and to and to do things like this. But um, it's still something I'm working on, slowly, hopefully, getting better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think that's so true too. There's I mean, I I probably come across as someone who is quite confident to chat, but I haven't always been like that. And I do get quite shy in a lot of situations, particularly, but I know people, and you have to really push yourself out of the comfort zone. But yeah, it should never be really to the detriment of someone.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_01:Um, it should never be to the detriment of someone's work, right? Like it and it sometimes that does happen. I do think sometimes people fly under the radar because they are you know present and out there. Um, but yeah, it's nice to be able to make sure that those people are still being seen as well. Absolutely. You are very out there, though. We were just chatting before about the fact that we saw you at the NGV Gala in your beautiful outfit. Tell us a little bit about that and how that came about.
SPEAKER_03:You know, look, I mean the thing with the gala, I look I I have a lot of respect for the NGB. Um and I think that that that it exists uh, you know, in in its own particular sphere, and then we kind of orbit around it and and to the side of it, and then there's separate Melbourne Design League things and and and things like that happen. Um but you know, it can't be just one thing. So everything has to exist together and it attracts different people. The NGB is a particular organization, and I think we should be pretty proud of it. Does it do everything I want it to do? Probably not. Does it do a lot? Yes. Um, can it harness, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars very, very quickly? Yes. Um, so you know, there's a lot of criticisms, uh I think sometimes with big organizations. I just sort of have faith that at least it exists and there are some amazing people who work within it. Um the gala itself look, you know, it's a bit of fun. It's to celebrate, you know, an artist, an exhibition, but also just to celebrate the fact that we have an organization.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Only unspend the money and it can put on a show. And on I guess my hospitality side kind of looks at things a bit through that lens as well. Um, what some might kind of call a bit of a waste of money or frivolous or whatever it is. I go, well, it isn't, it isn't. I mean, it's a networking event. Really much sweet. It's a networking event that brings prominence to what they're trying to do and the reason for the funding and getting people into the gallery, which is as far as I see it, an incredible resource and boon for Melbourne. Um, and yes, you know, on the fun side, the dress up, the sort of Met Gala-esque aspect to it. It's it's all just part of what makes Melbourne kind of colourful and fun and the people who go to it as well. So, I mean, you know, we're very privileged to to go and to contribute and to be at the dinner and be at the party and to meet some amazing people and to see the exhibition, of course, um, which was amazing. Um, and yes, you know, having a nice outfit is always fun. The outfit was from um a a friend and client of mine, Kudrick, who has a label called Mustani. And I'm working with Kudrick and her husband Alex on their private residence. But um, you know, Kudrick came up with some ideas for the outfit, and it sort of had I think some references to the particular exhibition this time, but also still felt a bit like me. Um, you know, this amazing sort of mirror embellishments. It's kind of he's it was very me. You know, just a touch of sort of an ethnic kind of um traditional or art seasonal workmanship to the to the garment, um, without being too on the nose. But then, you know, I don't mind playing up a bit of do that. I've got a great ethnic cat function. It's always it's always kind of fun. Funch me doesn't know me.
SPEAKER_00:What is your what is your background, Bram?
SPEAKER_03:My parents are Sri Lanka. My parents are Sri Lanka, and both from Colombo. Um, and then they moved to England and they lived there for probably about a decade, and then they came to Hamilton of all places um here in in Australia and they lived there for a while, and that's um where we had a lot of our childhood and then and then Melbourne. Um, but my grandparents, you know, we we were pretty fortunate to be here in Melbourne with us for for great well, all of my life, basically. Um, and they they managed to leave um you know after the war in in Sri Lanka. So that's so we were pretty privileged to make a life here. Um and you know, that they were just uh they were just amazing people who really embraced living in Australia, really felt utterly grateful to be here and contributed a lot as well. So I think I had a lot, learned a lot from them about the fact that, you know, they were still very cultural and and proud of their ethnicity, but they were also extremely proud to be Australians. So, you know, it was a nice way in which to feel um, you know, culturally connected um in a way to a country. But I I mean I wasn't born there and I I sort of don't like to take too many graces from that country because you know I sort of feel a bit like I wasn't born there, I I don't speak the language. Um but nonetheless, we still, you know, grew up going to church and temple doing a lot of traditional things. Exactly. Exactly. So I do like to wear that in in in in its own small way, or more often than not, it probably just happened kind of naturally through osmosis or something. And so I just was not aware of it until until it's there in back and why.
SPEAKER_00:But that's beautiful what you wore. Yeah. Well, that's um interesting because my husband, his um parents are from Hong Kong, and it was sort of like what you were saying, like they love love listening, love living in Australia, but they moved to down in Frankston, which is an area where there weren't a lot of other Asian people. So Phil was like the only Asian person in his whole school. But yeah, it's um yeah, nice to they really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:It would have been like that in Hamilton, because Hamilton is just like a pretty small country town, right?
SPEAKER_03:Pretty much I think there was a joke that we were probably the only non-Indigenous brown people nearby.
SPEAKER_02:Um you know, like it it sort of it is interesting to me.
SPEAKER_03:I I don't, you know, it's just not our story. So it's it's not our story of any particular hardship. Um, and sometimes I think that people expect you to have that kind of story. Uh it's just not ours. My parents had a wonderful time and great friends, and and and and as far as I'm aware, you know, there were obviously well not obviously, but there were understandable things, some subtle nuances perhaps growing up or at school. But nothing that I really felt was of any, you know, significant detriment to our lives or or personal, you know, personality or an emotions. But I love that because I feel like you need to hear the hard stories all the time.
SPEAKER_01:It's nice to hear actually that you can you did come to Australia. Our parents came to Australia, they had an amazing time, they love it. Like that to me is those stories actually need to probably be told more. Um I completely agree. It doesn't have to be um, you know, all the all the other stuff. I feel like um, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:No, I I completely agree. And and I find it kind of interesting. We my partner well, whether or not um everyone knows, my partner is a restaurateur, and we we opened a restaurant earlier this year and um called Hopper Joint, which was really our kind of love letter to one of our particularly or one of our particular favourite dishes, but you know, hoppers, um, which is sort of a Sri Lankan street food, really. And um my mum works there on a Friday and Saturday night still, and she just kind of swans yeah, she swans in, she's in a sari, silly done, um, and she goes around and welcomes everybody and puts little Bindy or put two on their foreheads, like in a little jeweled piece here. And and you know, she that's kind of the limit of what she does. But such an important part for a few hours on Friday and Saturday nights when she's there. And I was thinking about it, going like again, like it's just whilst there were these nuances perhaps when we were first growing up here, um, you know, she feels, I think, quite proud to be doing this now and celebrating her culture in such a big way. Um, how far we've all come, you know, in understanding, you know, the cultural fabric that we're very lucky to have and celebrate it, uh, you know, and and and realize that, you know, the value of diversity is pretty much, in my opinion, the one important thing currently within the Australian landscape that that people are not discussing.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_03:It should be constantly, you know, we'll try to sort of look at things and try to put it in the positive spin. And it's yeah, it's this value of diversity, I think, that that everyone is sort of not labeling. Um, and I, you know, I think we're pretty, we should be pretty happy to put a legal on it. We're happy to put labels on everything else, but this is one that should be uh, you know, really valued, really uh celebrated.
SPEAKER_00:It's pretty special. And don't you think that food is such a great way to, you know, celebrate different cultures? But I think it's also really important for the interior design industry because you need to have people from different backgrounds in the room when we're designing spaces, you know, reach uh residential is one thing, you know, you can have your home however you like, but when it comes to spaces, you know, like hospitals, um, even retail um airports, all of these places where interior designers work, we need to have diversity in the room. And I feel like that, to be honest, I feel like it's really lacking in in interior design. And I don't know, I'm scratching my head why, because when I have taught at RMIT, I actually see the whole world of cultures. I see people from Morocco, from Syria, from Malaysia, from just all around the world. But then when I come out to industry, well, I don't know what happens to them. But anyway, it's something I I do think about and I don't I don't have the answers to. Obviously, it's quite a big one. But um, yeah, I think that, you know, that's beautiful that you've been able to put your own background into your space that we can all then experience. Um, and I loved Hopper's joint and I loved the way that you incorporated a uh like a homely kind of atmosphere. I don't know if homely is like a cool word to say, but it's No, I'm I'm all for it.
SPEAKER_03:I'm all for it. Go, go with homely. I mean, if that's if that's the word that comes to mind. I mean, the reality is that there were two things with Hopper Joint. It's like one is this like obsession I had with Jeffrey Baller, and also who doesn't. Interestingly to me, some people are not kind of aware of who he is or his work. And I was sort of sitting there racking my brains, trying, I know that, um, because I studied architecture, not interior design, and I know that in my first year at architecture, there was Southeast Asian, um Southeast Asian studies, I guess, or you know, we really looked at Southeast Asian architecture. But I have this feeling that he didn't even pop up. Um what? I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to remember um you know what it was that that I some generally mistake, or whatever it was, but anyway, didn't really matter. So there's this kind of thing of that. And then there's this other thing, which is just like memories, you know, childhood. So growing up with all of this sort of random religious iconography around the house was just so common. Um, growing up with um, what is it, four, seven, eleven, you know, everywhere it just reminds me of my grandmother. Now, the funniest thing is that when other people come into the restaurant and see these little things, some of them have very specific um you know, memories of Ben Tapage and go, Oh my gosh, we grew up with this. And some of them you've already all of it. So to me, I I I love that. I'm like, it's not, I always thought it was just very particular to me. My joke, I don't think so now anymore. It's just a it's a sad phase station way of me, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's I mean, the way that um, you know, in the space, you've got this sort of antique round table and it's got a vase with, you know, flowers um arranged on it. So it's like it does have that, you know, touch of something from like the grandparents' good room, but it's sort of in an elephant, it's in a really elevated way though. So um, yeah, I think that was really clever the way that you've you've woven in those homely, if I use the wrong word, sorry. Homely is cool.
SPEAKER_03:I just want to be with homeless. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't it funny though that the nostalgia thing too, that that that can be what makes it feel homely, not necessarily the the furniture or the white. I mean, obviously that helps in terms of layout and how how you're all sitting, particularly like communal tables and things like that. But nostalgia can be what that connection that people kind of go, oh, this just like suddenly they've got this connection to this space that they've never been in before. And I kind of really love how that can be used for that too. Completely.
SPEAKER_03:And nostalgia, just as its own, you know, category of our conversation is is worth exploring. I mean, that's nostalgia for for me. And I guess my assumption was that other people would link into it because I had a connection to it, or at least that was the hope. It wasn't sort of contrived that if it needs to look this way to promote this thought. It's quite often nostalgia is exactly, but I think that you run and play with that in other spaces as well. I mean, I think this year look, my my work's pretty particular, I think, or I'd like to think it has a certain thread, if not super discernible. But you know, I do like going in my week, my weekly routine, the few things that I do do for myself to try and get myself thinking and creative, you know, going to my little local haunts for inspiration. And a lot of them are auction houses. Um, I love the nostalgia of of reclaimed pieces. Um, I have a bit of a bear my bonnet about you know the use of the word sustainability. Um, so without going too far down that, another conversation, you know. You can go down there if you want. It's just as sustainable, as sustainable as I can be as an interior designer in a world where more often than not people are looking to re-evaluate their lives or how they live, for example, and they want new things. So yeah, there's only so far where we can go where I think we should just be doing this as a responsible person. Um, and I don't need to shout it from the rooftop that I'm suddenly a really responsible person. I think it just needs to be an understanding in the industry that this is just your responsibility. But in terms of just finding, finding beautiful pieces, getting things a second life, that to me feels like the more sustainable way in which we can discuss this topic. Um, and to that point of nostalgia, it's it's creating a rooms that feel like it has had a life. I think you can very clearly see when there's a room that looks completely new, or dare I say if that's the right word, important to a room that has a sort of collective feel to it as a story. Um, I often have a chat with clients more to do with the residential side of my practice. And we'll be talking about certain pieces in their house. You know, what are we keeping, what are we not keeping? It's always a an early conversation I have. And sometimes it just mortifies me to think that they're like, no, we're just getting rid of everything. And I look around and go, surely, surely there's some fiddious vase that you, you know, have in a corner that you bought when you backpacked in Peru and then casually swept all the way back to Melbourne, you know, on your Europe trip to Drake or some something like that. And I'm like, it's not, it's actually it's not hideous, number one. It probably is that it's it's whatever they think it is, but you you made a decision on your budgeted, you know, daily spend to to invest in something. You know, it's got a story, it's so special. How do we then celebrate it? You know, is it you know, on a beautiful stone shelf or a beautiful and you know, get in timber plint or blah blah blah, whatever it is that we want to do. And I'm sort of trying to pull all these pieces out and go, you've actually got an amazing life channel stories. Why would we get rid of everything and then simply replace it with something that you know you see digitally or um you know that you kind of don't have that same connection to, right? What is the well, what is the connection? I'm I'm sort of forming that connection for you. So so we so in terms of that, like I think, yeah, nostalgia is something worth discussing and and and evaluating your choices and what you purchase, both previously and future purchases, is sort of how I weave that conversation about sustainability into it. All the new purchases are, as far as I'm concerned, they need to be forever purchased, it needs to be something that you go, sure, we'll we'll give it 10 years and then recover it. But there's nothing wrong with it. We, you know, we love it. We all love it.
SPEAKER_01:I find that really interesting too, that um I think nostalgia and sustainability, just like connecting those two things. It's about meaning, isn't it? So it's about to be sustainable with things that you purchase. If you don't place any meaning on those things, then it is very easy to just go, we just we just we don't want any of this, we're clearing it. So that first time when you purchase those things, there was probably no thoughtful process behind it, or they just went to one showroom and picked a heap of stuff out, or they never loved it in the first place because they didn't choose something that they love, they just chose it for some other practical reason. And then it makes it easier to get rid of. And this sort of, I guess, goes back to making sure that you really do like don't just kind of go, well, I guess that's fine and that's okay, and we'll just listen to what Brem's saying or Lauren's saying or Bree's saying. And you still need to love it and have the connection to it for it to be, yeah, considered to be sustainable, right?
SPEAKER_03:And and as a follow-up onto that, the sometimes we'll be discussing pieces and it's it should be a convert, you know, it should be something that everyone's thinking about, but I have to sort of articulate it and go, you know, I I'm not living here. Like in many ways, it has absolutely nothing to do with me. Like it really doesn't. I'm yeah, I'm here to facilitate and to assist and to advise and to create with you for you. It has nothing to do with me. I I think that when I look through my work, I think I said before, like I'm hoping for a thread and I'm still developing it. This is very early on. You know, who knows what that thread is? As I said, I think it's constantly a cycle of re-evaluation, um, reassessment of what we're doing. Am I on the right path? Are are the morals the right way? All of these things. But it has nothing to do with me. So if if if someone can pick up something and say, oh, that looks a bit like your work, I'm like, okay, that's really nice. But I would never want someone to say that's definitely brand, because it it really shouldn't say anything about me at all. It's it's about either it's about a brand, um, you know, what is their core DNA, or it's about a person and their family and their story. Um, and so quite often I'll start the story off with them with like all the terribly unsexy conversations about, you know, how many buns on seats do you need at a dining table and in your lounge room? You know, like that's the stuff. And on where are your children putting their um, you know, myriad bangs and kids need to be having all the time. It's like, you know, all of this stuff because they sort of go, yeah, we want to do this renovation, but that's right. We we need, you know, essentially lockers for our house. That's what that was what would help me. Or, you know, I desperately want to showcase all of my you know grandmother's flatware or something. That would be my dream. You know, just things like that. That'd be all this like super boring practical stuff. And I think it's also because, again, it's still in development, but I've never ever felt throughout my whole career um unsure about any of the decisions I'm making. I I think the best thing or the best quality I'm trying to hone of myself is to just continue with the confidence that I had the understanding and the knowledge and the learnings, um, and I think I know what I want to do. It's it's always developing, but I'm never nervous about what I'm putting forward to a client ever. It's it's always a solid thought in my head, or I don't put it forward. So I kind of have this faith that it's going to look beautiful. And if you want it to be a hot pink kitchen, I will make it look beautiful if that's what you want. But it has to be something that you want. I'm just not doing things for the sake of some kind of weird ego or something. Like I think, yeah. Because most of the things I do don't even get photographed. Like no one sees them, but the person who is, you know, can listen to work, I guess.
SPEAKER_00:So you have that confidence in that you're doing the right thing because it's what the client wants, but they just don't know how to put that together.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I have a confidence that it's going to look good. So I'm happy to sort of talk in the first steps about the maths of the room, you know, the really unsexy mathematics, circulation paths, and bonds on sets. You know, once we know that we'll need 10 seats because we've dissected that actually once a week, the in-laws come over and I've got four children and they bring chief codes and all of that. Then at least I know that what I'm proposing, the conversation and the brain cells that we're talking about that we're using in that conversation are purely about well, what is the finish and what is the sort of form of it? But we know it's a big tech. We know it's CB10. There's no, there's no option of this and then around and then two and whatever. It's just, it's this is what it is. But and this is sort of a new part of my practice, and I'm trying to hone in on. It's like, you know, early mud map study, early conversations about this, and trying to take people on a journey to say, don't worry about what it's going to look like right now. Let's just make sure that it functions the way it needs to function. And then we'll talk about what it looks like because you need a table. That's point one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Whether the table is pink, blue, or green is kind of irrelevant at this stage. We will work on this together. And most of the time through these conversations, you end up learning more about the client anyway. They'll let something sleep or make a comment. And then you'll sort of take this information and go, Well, I know that they don't like green, and therefore, why would we proposing a green table? Unless I really want it.
SPEAKER_01:That's another unless you think they really want it, Bram. Unless you think that's the end of it.
SPEAKER_03:Amazing some of the things they get through when they're like, no, it's okay, we'll see. But but only because I think there's enough to back it up. If we can tick off like three or four checklist, you know, boxes, I think that you can help um explain to people why it's a good thing. But it is always their decision. As I said, I don't live there. Imagine coming home and saying, Oh, bloody Brahman, this stupid green table that I hate, you know. The worst one is bro, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I think that's interesting that I feel like um, you know, I totally respect that, that there's no ego in it and it is about the client. Because I feel like we should all be like that. And I I know that you do start to form a maybe a little bit of an aesthetic as you as you go and people can kind of pick up on that. But what still makes the project great is not that. It's usually the things that you've done because of the brief or because you needed to make it work for that person, and then that's kind of where it becomes a bit more authentic, and then that's sort of the thing that comes through, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Parameters are what make the design work harder. Like the more you can explain or tell about how you want to live, the better it is. Like the bums on seeds things. I say that like five times a day because people just forget. And I'm like, But if you have this gigantic boardroom type dining table, where are these people sitting when we're having a drink before or after? Um often what I'll find is, you know, I mean, no criticism, but it kind of is a criticism, is sometimes some jobs that I might inherit if I haven't been involved from the very beginning with an architect, for example, is that sort of block work furniture that just arrives there is the best way to sort of show how it's undoing in how furniture actually works. Um, often there'll be a room where I'm sitting here going, this doesn't work because I'm actually 10 meters away from television. So like how is this actually going to work? Like it's all relevant to put a random chair in the middle of the room, but that's not how we're living. And then there's a gigantic dining room which seats 20 people. And I think again, where do these people go before and after this dinner? Nobody goes to a dinner party and sits directly down. So the shape of rooms and and the formation of the plan can can very quickly become undone. So I'm gonna these are important questions that you need to be asking front. And that's also suggest that that people don't. It's just unfortunately, recently there have been a few situations like this where I've looked at it and go, gosh, this feels like a waste of time. Um, it starts to unfairly undermine people's work um when when all they're ever going to do is the best. But then you've got to kind of work within those your books. And you know, just try to get everybody back on track without throwing anyone under the bus as well. Because that's that's what when anyone's about at it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think sometimes it is just like stepping through a, you know, a bit of a like a story, telling the story like what you said before. Okay, kids' school bags, where are they going? Okay, they go there. That's why we've designed it like this. And then when you have a dinner party, this is where people are going to be, and then they're going to go there. But for your everyday, this is where you're going to be. And you and people are like, oh my God. And sometimes you get a floor plan that's quite bad. It makes us look like geniuses because you're just like pointing out some of these really basic things, but some floor plans that don't capture those basic things. So um, but I think what's really interesting from your point of view, Brem, is that you know, you work across disciplines. So what I was noticing in some of your residential work was some aspects that I thought, oh, that looks like a like a bit of a hospitality touch there. You've got like a built-in bar that looks, you know. So do you sort of find that they kind of feed into each other? And like what we said with Hopper's joint, it had that residential kind of feel to it as well.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. I think um there was always this conversation, I think in the last few years that things were moving towards you know, softening off of of of um commercial spaces. No. Now I I actually had a conversation with a friend many years ago, and I'll never forget it was this, it was a she's a lawyer, it was a conversation about her law firm. Um, I won't name moms, but like she had a slightly at the time I thought it was a cynical view, but I've been thinking about it ever since about the investment that the firm had made in their interiors and how I said it, you know, it has this lovely residential feel. And she made a point. She goes, This of course it does, Brian, because they don't want us to ever leave. And um, and I did, I did think that that was I did think it was actually so hilarious. Her view of it was not unkind, but just it was a bit like that's what they do because you know, we're meant to be here. It's not untrue, right? It's not untrue. And it and it isn't untrue, but but I sort of challenged you and said, that's not unfair. That's more probably more to do with you than them. But that also is improving your quality of the time you're spending at the office, you know, yes. How you interact as opposed to a whiteboard box and desk and sort of situation to the flexibility to have meetings and lounge rooms and things like that. Um yes, it works both ways. Um, and and and following on from that, I would just say, you know, I don't often like to talk so much about COVID because I'm I'm quite happy to sort of leave it in the past. But you know, it wasn't about that. Yeah. Well, a global game changer for how people understood their faith. And I think for our industry, it was it was incredible. I actually was unbelievably busy during and post-COVID, simply with people having conversations or at least starting the conversations. So I'm finally suddenly spent time in my house and realized how much I am disappointed with the way I live. Yeah. Um, and and I used the word disappointed because that was what people said. They said, I can't believe I've just let things go. I don't want to live like this. This isn't what I wanted from my life. I don't enjoy my house. I don't have a dining table. We've just been makeshifting it for years and thinking it's fine. And and, you know, small, small things, which were interesting because it wasn't like a lot of fool I need to renovate. It was just like, what are the rooms I need to work with? And the reason is because a lot of people had to work from home. So they suddenly went, one, I don't have anywhere to work from, or two, I'm at a table which I test and you know, this is what I see every day. So of course that was going to shift the conversation in terms of interior design now into what does that mean for the use of all of these rooms? I took some challenges from that or some learnings from that, which were very interesting. It wasn't just about working road, it was just understanding what you do in all of these rooms. Um, you know, what are the purposes of them? I previously was living in an apartment with my husband and uh it was um at quite a beautiful apartment, and the lounge had sort of these almost, you know, 360-degree views of of oh or like a view out of it all quite a glaze. And so there wasn't any particular space to actually put a television. And and and if I did, it really reoriented the way of all of our furniture work, and it was kind of a bit shitty. And so I was looking at a spare room going, I really don't know who's staying. We we, you know, we very rarely have guests. And so to turn a spare bedroom into what we call our TV room, and I have I had two vintage maralangas, um, which we were very lucky to find um you know in the country, and I've I've I've recovered them twice and I do rubber them. We've had these two, you know, meter by meter chairs that basically fill the room and the TV. And I it was just the greatest room ever because we don't watch a lot of television, but when we do, it's very specific, like we've disgusted. It's really disgusting. Like there's an episode of bad to watch it, no casual. It's not like the TV's just on in the background, yeah. Um, but that's particular to us, you know? So then all of a sudden the lounge could be reoriented. And I ask people this all the time. I'm like, do you even want television here? You see, this look the purpose of this room is, or are you wanting to be in a cute snug in your pajamas, you know, with two other people? Like, who do you watch television with? Like you invite friends over. Rarely happens, I don't know. So like so. That's not the greatest example, but that's just one thing where I go, we can challenge the way we do and lay out things. Um, and and you know, if we flip the conversation to retail, I mean, retail this year retail has been huge for for me personally. I've been really lucky to work with some incredible brands. Um my gosh, Bram like all Australian.
SPEAKER_00:I was looking at your website and I was just like, oh my god, you are busy. Yeah, but that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry, I'm still catching up. But um, but it's interesting, like, you know, what I I worked with um if I could give like, you know, a couple of examples, like working with Pericorn was wonderful. Um, George Inwell from the Austin group had taken the brand on and, you know, taken them into their stable of brands. Um and kind of knew that it needed a little bit of a shake up, but nothing detrimental to the Pericuton Clyde. And I think it's always sort of the temptation to go, we're changing it up, it's got to be new and hip and whatever. When I go, it does, but we can't scare off the people who are buying the product or basically. It's an exercise, isn't it? Um and you're right, it's disrespectful to them, you know, loyal customers. It's it's so um what we did was, and they were so they were so generous to allow this as well. And and you know, retail has a crazy timeline, there are lease agreements involved. There's a myriad of things behind the scene that we're not really always privy to. Um I put up a wall and say, I don't want to know about things. It'll just distract you. That's that's your and there was so but to uh I still said time, I think we need to take a step back. Like, no design, don't show me a floor plan. It's just about the brand. Like, what do we want to do with these? Yeah. Um, you know, how can we do like just a high-level brand DNA workshop related to interiors, of course, but like just kind of going, you've got some pillars, you've got some DNA, but what does that mean for us? So what does that look like apart from just your clothing, which obviously changes seasonally and and is therefore not always a sort of great, um, you know, a great way to start. Um and then on the other hand, um, working with Pete recently has been completely eye-opening. Uh, they had sort of undergone their own internal brand analysis a few years ago. And from that, they have developed a really, really strict, I would say, set of core values and and guidelines for how they want to appear, how how they need their sort to look. But one of the greatest things that happened recently was that High Street Armadale has opened and we'll call that sort of, I guess, a flagship store for the brand. And we've had a meeting recently to discuss, you know, what I was. Able to challenge them with that has then redefined a bit of their core, you know, brand DNA rules and what worked and what didn't work. Some of the things we've done haven't worked, some of them have worked spectacularly, but they've been so um generous and so good as to absorb these as well and go, what are the learnings? Then we we distilled us down even further into a better package. Um coming to the end of this year, we would have done, you know, started with with Dish Bondi, which was a flagship for them. Um High Street Armydale, there's a store in Claring Up, uh Claremont Quarter, James Street, and um, you know, there's more on the horizon.
SPEAKER_00:I Oh my gosh, have you done all of those stores? Have you?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And every time that we get out of here. Do you sleep?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not promoted. Can't answer that. No.
SPEAKER_03:But everything I've done at a store, I just sit there and go, you know, funky. That is it's so wonderful. I'm so what we've done together, but it's never been an assumption. I kind of assumed I did too, but then they'd find some other designer and and move on. Like I just I just assumed it was like you got two good ones, Brad. Like, be happy and don't be greedy. That's great. They seem we're happy okay to now, yeah, to continue this. And you know, I I think like I would hope that as they develop, you know, they they would I hope that they do work with other people. I think it'd be great for them, right for their brand to uh and then you know, I might come back to them in a few years with something else.
SPEAKER_01:So well, I guess working with someone else would mean uh would I guess mean that they'd do a similar thing that they did where you challenge them. Yeah, and then it improves. So I guess sometimes there's a point with brands where they do need to work with someone else so they get that happening again. And everyone doesn't get too comfortable, maybe. Um, you're completely right.
SPEAKER_00:But as you said, you know, they've um taken a minute to reflect and say this worked amazingly, but this didn't work. So you've already got they've already invested all of that in you, so you sort of probably hit the ground running, like and they've start with someone new and start again.
SPEAKER_03:Also being on the on the permanent contract role.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:It's great. But um I guess they just you know respectfully simply be like, you know, you can't be something to ever at all at all times and and and and yet brands in particular flex and grow and change as yeah, as as trends, you know, if that's the word, um, demand and and internal business structures and whatever. And so you just need to be flexible.
SPEAKER_01:And nothing's a given, nothing's significant, no, you can never I know it's really you've got to remind yourself that all the time. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and you mentioned that dish store in Bondi, and that is sublime, that store. I haven't actually been to it, but um, I loved the way that it has like, as we were sort of talking about, that resid that residential feel, it's got like a lounge room in there. It's not just like a little chair in the corner for the boyfriend to sit on while she's doing her thing. It's like a full-on lounge room. So, how does that how do you put forward an idea like that to the client?
SPEAKER_03:To give them credit, actually, the lounge is something that Dish is very, very passionate about. Um so I will I will say that to them. I I also agree I can't stand a single chair for the boyfriend or husband or girlfriend or whatever.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So but even before that, I was quite comfortable with doing smaller arrangements of furniture throughout. Dish as a brand are very particular about their belief in the lounge as self and and a very generous one. And this is what I mean, like to give them the credit, it it was incredible having this conversation where, you know, as I said before, the mats, the unsexy stuff is so integral to a to a to a retail store, as it is to any project, I think. But, you know, looking at lineal meters and and things like that for hanging and and and folded spaces. Um even though I do like to always include like some moments of relief, I kind of call them whether it's a hospitality offering or just a table for flowers for the sake of of its beauty but also circulation. Um, you know, everything's got to work for a few checkpoints in my in my mind. It can't just be for one thing. But they very actively understand that this lounge reduces the capacity for five extra million meters of product which will be sold. Like they're making very, very considered um informed business decisions in this. So for them that it's it is all about the lounge, but I do find it interesting with other brands to have that discussion. And and I and and and it's to do with so many things, you know, whatever their rent is, what the lease agreement is, what they can afford to do. Some stores are there to promote, I think, and this is not dishes, this is retail, I think in general, to promote a brand as a club or as a as an understanding of what they are about socially and and online and what their presence is in the world, and probably very little to do with actually buying anything from from that particular store.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was curious about that. Um, I used to do a bit of retail design, but it's more for like big brands back 10, 10 plus years ago. But yeah, it was like, as you were saying, like, you know, the hanging space, the folded space, like that real estate in a store, like you know, in oh um, we did um when Westfield Sydney opened up, um it was so expensive. So to have that luxury of that lounge experience. But you know, this was probably, when was it? Oh my gosh, it was probably 15 years ago now. So that's a different time. And online shopping well, it existed, but it was a different way of uh a retail store. These stores were I was designing for um uh guests, Aldo Gap when they opened up. Um, they were to sell stock, you know, that was that was it. It wasn't really thought about, oh, it's going to showcase the brand. But yeah, things have changed. And I think that's also maybe even a post-COVID thing, too.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and and it's online too. I mean, I mean, one of the first retailers I worked with was Henny, and and now we've just completed a a second store for them in in Five Way um Sydney. Um, but that started as a purely online, it was an only digital presence. Um was it? Move to brick and mortars is was so interesting. Um again for me that their their particular brand in A is very interesting as well. The the buildings are incredible, they're beautiful, they're evocative, they've got history, whether it's on Gravel Street, sorry, um, yeah, Gravel Street or in um in Five Ways, you know, they're beautiful terraces almost and and they've got charm and and whimsy. I don't necessarily see them as the most super functional for retail, but that's because their garments have displayed more as art pieces. Um they've got an incredible brand following from women mostly and and men, I think, as well now, who have been purchasing with them online for years, and they know the fits and they know how the cuts work. So to buy online is is just easy. But to go to the store to experience a bit of the the sort of you know what it is to be in that brand is is artistic and fun, and you spend an hour at least and you're wandering around. And and you know, that's why the Henny Hulm was so interested in little artful inflections and and investing in beautiful pieces from overseas to to have a sort of more global appeal in their store design. Um, you know, they let me tables, um, stuff that you can't really get across the line, often in a commercial environment. But um, Henny's always been very trusting um of the vision and and embraced that as well and said, just, you know, once they get the Macs done, they're happy to let me do things. Um, uh, you know, I'm very proud of both stores. I think Sydney is a pretty incredible experience. Uh I think if you took all the clothes out, you could start to hang some beautiful pieces and it would have a gallery light feel. You know, without being too austere, but it's it's got this really lovely coin. But again, that is their particular um, you know, brand direction of where they want to go. Um and that might change in the in the coming years as well. Um, if anything.
SPEAKER_00:If anything's true in retail, it is change, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that um that store on Greville Street that won the best in the best commercial interior offer the Belle Fanulie Awards. And that year, I think 2022, you were also named the best emerging interior designer. But I mean, you're not exactly like new to interior design. Um, so could you just give us like um what what has been your so-called journey? I know that's overused that term, but yeah, how did you how did you start your own practice?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I was you know, it was interesting. It was just before COVID, just before COVID. Um, and I had sort of come back over the break and and thought about, yeah, I think this is now the right time to do this. I think sometimes like there might be a confidence, but it's maybe a bit for show, but I can't move without my brain telling me that it's the right time. So I've definitely been in situations even more recently where I've gone, you know, uh an amazing business person would have made this move two years ago, you know, or an amazing business person would have made this decision three years ago and it would have been.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, don't be so hard on yourself.
SPEAKER_03:So I I just had an awareness that I I can only do things when my brain and my body are both working C together. And and I'm very aware sometimes that there's a decision to be made, that is the decision, but I can't do feel quite stalled and I won't do it until I'm ready to do it myself. Like I need to get everything on board, all the little factions working in my head on board. It's like everyone's got to the meeting and said, Yeah, sign in the box.
SPEAKER_00:Um it's not how many people are up there.
SPEAKER_03:Oh god, too many. Don't ask.
SPEAKER_00:Everyone, everyone has to sign off.
SPEAKER_03:It's so funny because I just need my competence like to do it in myself. It's not me to make a jump and a leap of faith be. It's just it's very near it's very on me to do to do. I don't have in a sense of like this is this is it to just do it. I need to like run the figures, do your spreadsheet, think about it for an extra two years.
SPEAKER_01:When you've actually put the work in. Because it's like it's almost like going back to what you're saying, or we were even just talking about a floor plan, right? And then there's it all these rules of like what's expected. It's the same thing with business, is yes, we can kind of go, I I probably say similar things about myself. I'm not a good business person, but you are because you made this the decision that was right for you at the time and not necessarily what maybe looked good on paper in black and white. So you do have, I mean, I think that's a credit to being a creative person. You've got to take that into account too, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, the best thing I can do was is to surround myself with the right people. That that is something that I was always very aware of. So I I I did think, yeah, when it when I couldn't make a decision myself a lot more, who around me is someone who will help me shape this thought process further. I think I am getting a bit faster at making the better decisions. Um, and some of it comes down to just the situation, I mean, or or the quantity of work or what it is I want to achieve next year. Um, it's been pretty amazing the last four years of just you know things building off things. But I'm I'm in I'm really into relationship. That's that's what I think the business is about. Um, you know, if I look back at the body of work to think that at a minimum, you know, there's been at least two, you know, projects with the same client at a minimum. Um that's amazing. That's great is is what I want out of my practice. I've got this friend um who I met through my husband, actually, and he's um his name is Ken Stringer, and he's an incredible designer. Um, you know, studied in Paris, old school design, old school design. I've always kind of looked up to Kenti and bought Kentus does his own thing, there's amazing houses. He's solely residential. But the way his practice is built is, you know, parents' apartment here, then the house in Tura, then it's their daughter's apartment. Like it's it's generational um trust. I think that's beautiful. Generational trust is something that, you know, sometimes gets gets overshadowed, overpassed in conversations of who's it, you know, who's popular and and how do I leverage this and whatever it is, as opposed to who's the right bit, like, you know, right tool, right, right job. I kind of always think so. Even if I'm pitching for a job, I just go to the kind, and at the end of the day, I'm vetting you as much as you're vetting me. Yeah. I'm the only one with a word of sight that tells people about what I do. I'm very happy to have a pretty frank conversation with them and say, look, you go away and think about it. I'm also going to go away and think about it. And to be honest, if I get a funny feeling in my stomach, I'll probably just say to you, I directly grow a good fit. But what can I do to help me find someone else that we're not good?
SPEAKER_01:Like it's good that you can trust yourself to be able to say no to the wrong things so that you can find the right things, right? Oh lol, it doesn't always happen.
SPEAKER_03:Sometimes I make a complete pop-up. But I I do try, I am trying to to see if there are red flags. And I mean that like generous red flags with myself too. If I go, this job is out of the scope of my understanding. This is this is not gonna bode well, it's it's gonna, it's gonna be, you know, I'll end up fucking this up and ruining everything. So I think I think on both sides we kind of have to have a think about it and go, just don't just take these with fake of it or it's a great, great job. It needs to be the right, the right job that I'm capable of doing as well. And also some people are just difficult on the other side. I think we all know that. That's just humans. It's it is what it is. Um, and if you can work with them, then great. I find it very stressful. So I try to avoid it uh when I can.
SPEAKER_00:It it just impacts our it impacts our life so much. I mean, I can't really separate my business and my life. So at the moment we have the best clients. We have, you know, clients that I just know when the phone rings, we're gonna, I'm gonna be like almost crying with laughter because she's hilarious. Or I'm gonna have great discussions with one of my clients for an hour about business before we even talk about the project. You know, it's just an absolute pleasure. Um, and you know, as you said, it's some people are just not the right fit for me. We don't click, we have we're coming from a different point of view. It costs me money, actually, to take on their project to make sure. So yeah, I think it, you know, I can't, I wish I could say, Oh, I can pick and choose and all of that, you know, got to keep the lights on sometimes. But I think the longer that you're in business, the more you're just like, I'm holding out, I'm holding out. I'm gonna have to let that one go because I'm gonna keep my door open for this amazing, wonderful client to come in.
SPEAKER_03:Completely. I I had a um, we did it earlier this year. I I I I usually do like a client's Christmas theme. This year we this year I did a lunch and um I scheduled it towards the end of November, not realizing that everyone was thinking the same thing as me. And November ended up being this end of December. But um, you know, I I was sitting in the corner at one point I've missed lunch, like overseeing all of the clients together um with my glass of wine like a real creep and just watching them. And I did feel I did feel like so crap, only because it was like hideously late. I was thinking that's clients who knew each other, but otherwise no one knew anybody else. Until on the day, because previously I don't like stand-up these. On the day I'm thought, oh god, Friend, what on earth have you done? No one knows anybody. So you're forcing them to sit down with people they don't know. And I would personally like get my anxiety would go through the group. But somehow it all worked out really nicely. And and to your point, Lauren, like, yeah, I just went, God, this is a really, really fun, good group of people, you know, with with compatible family values, and and that's wide or getting along. Like we shouldn't have been freaked out about it. It was all perfectly fine. It all worked out perfectly well.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's beautiful. What a gorgeous thing to do. I've never done that with clients before, but um, occasionally we'll be invited to their Christmas party gathering and they're just like so proud of their home. They want to show it off, and it's really fulfilling. Like, you know, the accolades, not that I've really got accolades, but you know, when your work gets published or whatever, it's very nice. But I feel like that moment when, you know, your clients are really proud and thankful and it's so fulfilling. And I suppose, like, you know, you probably get that sense even more through hospitality and retail because you can kind of sneak in and see people. I don't know, do people just go in and want to like touch all that trafficine, or is that just what we do?
SPEAKER_03:Well, just the creepy as I said before. Yeah, I just feel like as I said before with my ineptness, I I'm pretty technologically inept. I I'm a bit so setting up the screen. I was the one that sent you the wrong link, so it took all of my energy this morning. Um, but I don't, I also am trying to limit all of my screen coming. So I don't talk, talk, TikTok or whatever it is. I don't I don't do that. And um I'm really not cool. And so I have friends who do TikTok and they'll send me TikTok videos of people who go to the retail stores. I didn't know that this was a thing, but people go in there and they take videos and they do little voiceovers and whatever. Um, and so I do find it quite hilarious when they're talking about stuff and and even they've been sending me tons of them from Dish Armadale recently where they're going to the change gyms and they can't go to this carpet on the walls and stuff, and everyone's touching a carpet. And and I'm secretly really, really proud. And then on the other hand, I'm like just my hands off the carpet. I really like color. You're gonna get fate tan on it. I'm never gonna get through again. What are you doing? You're not healthy in annual buddy. All right, so don't touch anything just to stay in the middle of the room.
SPEAKER_00:Put on white gloves as you enter the change room.
SPEAKER_03:I would if I could.
SPEAKER_00:So, um, Brent, we've got a couple of questions, if we can just round out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, please.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so clearly you're the best dressed in every room that you enter. So I'm curious to know like how does fashion influence, you know, how do how you express yourself?
SPEAKER_03:Um, look, I think I think that it's you know, it's a bit of an armor in some ways, but I mean I've always been interested in fashion. When I graduated, um, it was when did I graduate? 2010, that makes sense. Must be. Must be. And it wasn't a recession as such, but it was not a great time, if you recall. And certainly no one was hiring any graduate architects at the time. It was it was unbelievable slim pickings. Um, I I went through university with a pretty cool group um who I'm still friends with, and they're all doing incredible things across the globe. Um but at time yeah, none of them could get jobs. It was quite hilarious to me. It's like, what do you do with the masters of architecture and graduating with honors and all this rubbish when you can't get a job? Yeah, um, so true. It was I was doing some jewelry at the time because it's a side hobby, and um a friend of mine, Keegan, who still has her label, Keegan the Label, um, because she's a fashion designer and and she's one of the most impressive people I know. She makes clothes and sells them, you know, it that period. And she has now for what decades. I think she's an incredible woman. Anyway, she and I went and did a niece course and we um then opened up a store in Auburn Village called Spoon, and it was basically just a very early example of of consignment. So it was all Australian designers, and basically it was a way for us to have an income and do things, but we had it for we had it for a year and a five. And then we were both sort of doing our own thing. Egan still is making uh clothing under her label and artwork, and then I was doing part-time work with some interior designers, and we were slowly transitioning. Um, and in the end, we sold the business, which was amazing. Um but I guess, you know, like I was always interested in fashion, even in the in this small way. Um, and I I think that it's a personal brand thing as well. Like people are becoming a bit more aware of that as well. That, you know, how you present yourself to the world through it's it's not an ideal thing, but through the lens of social media, it's just part of the conversation now. It's we're stuck with it. So people can find you at all sorts of things. Um recently I've been trying, you know, not not trying very hard because honestly the clothing is so great, but I've been wearing clothing from all of the brands I work with. Um, you know, nothing is doing your pleasure event to purchase from them. Um nothing is a whole closure event to purchase from a friend as well. I'm not a massive believer in sort of make traits types things. I think, you know, if you want to support someone, you support them. Um, and that's just kind of what you do. And particularly in our industry as well, I just think, yeah, if you want to support a photographer or a stylist or someone to come and help you, you just you know, if you can afford to do it, you do it. And if you can't, then you you can't. Um so yeah, I I think clothing is part of a personal brand is fine. I don't have enough wardrobe space, so I'm going to be considering that over my holiday break, what I'm gonna be doing with some of the clothes.
SPEAKER_01:So if there's any of you but your eye was the space, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Shifting it to the new to its new owner, we'll see.
SPEAKER_00:Um you had a good question, Brigo.
SPEAKER_01:So well, so I obviously um with your husband also being in the hospitality industry is a big part of your life, right? So I'm thinking, is there something, some amazing kind of foodie experience you've had like that you just will never Forget. Rinse me.
SPEAKER_03:Um, look, I I um as you can see, I'm in my gym gear because I got up early to go on a bike ride. Um, I am not very motivated fitness-wise, except for the fact that I eat. Like I just live to eat at least. Uh make sure eat first design can come second. I I say I say eat first design second is because I get design from Ishi. If I'm explaining something to someone, I actually and so I collect cookbooks as well, and I don't cook. I don't cook law, but I collect them because I think they're poetry and I think that it's where design is. Uh if I'm explaining something to someone about layering and a landscape of furniture and fabrics and whatever, it can be just like speaking in Latin. Like it's it's it's something that they can't even conceive of, um, even though they interact with all of these pieces. But, you know, possibly through the advent of Master Chef or something like that, or just the way things are, if you're explaining to someone that, you know, this dish needs something wet and something crispy and something salty, and then it needs something soft on the top and a bit of puff of something and then a sauce, they go, Yeah, I completely agree. People know when they're eating it. It's so fun. Oh, I love it. It's really dry and really salty. And it's like, yes, it should have been on a nice, wet, creamy something or other that softened the palate, whatever. It's so easy to absorb and understand.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's so fun and clever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So from my design world, the eating is there, but just also because other than the mid button, I just like eating. So to answer your question, definitely one of the highlights this year has been um we've got a place, um, it's a crumbling, literally crumbling, mudrick cottage shack, I dare say is the word, um, in a place called Carlsru, which is just outside of Clinton. And um quite close by to us, about a 40-minute drive, is HeatKit. Yeah. Um, and there's an incredible restaurant bear called Um Spawnsey, just playing for a second, it's called Chauncey with our husband and white team, Pearson Louie. Um, and I and you know, they're just they're they're winning awards, like there's no tomorrow, but we were pretty lucky to get in there when they were very early on. Nothing has changed um since that day, by the way, except for the amount of people who are now on a wait list. But I think that that as well.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna go put myself on that wait list.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. But as an experience and as a drive out is as is is incredible. Uh, you know, it's a minimum four angles, but it's not um what I would call um forms of foams and farts food, which I can't eat. Like I don't have the patients.
SPEAKER_01:Say that again. What did you say?
SPEAKER_03:Swim furries and food is like things that have obviously been done with a pair of tweezers or whatever, which there is a place for it, and no street, it's just not my particular enjoyment of eating any food that looks like what it says it is, and you know, so it's more than it's four hours because you go for a walk in the garden and you take your drink out and you relax and go see the vegetables and the chickens, and that's why it takes long as an experience. It's not just about sitting there and eating, it's it's more of eating some farts. Yeah, exactly. It's it's awful, but you know, because I've said it now, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00:I totally do. It's hilarious. So one last thing, and we'll let you get back on with your day. Can you think of something to tell us that hardly anybody knows about you?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I do recall reading this question, and then I didn't really put a word of thought into it. I mean a bit nervous.
SPEAKER_00:I know, it's like a bit of a random one.
SPEAKER_03:I don't, I don't know, and also because I just I don't feel like these days I'm a very private person, I I don't know that I've got that. They are I mean, you know, they're nothing, they're not there's nothing shocking other than, you know, I'm obsessed with, you know, pure dramas, basically, written and Neely Fellow. So it's quite often that I um I don't know whether it's just a symptom or the way my brain works, but I find a lot of comfort in repetitious things. So wandering around the house or the farm with like downtown Abbey playing on my phone in my pocket is something that gives me a lot of comfort.
SPEAKER_01:So I love downtown.
SPEAKER_03:Everybody off this little weirdness. Um but then the question right to think about war. Um yeah, interestingly, that if I wasn't going to be a designer, I was thinking about this the other day when someone else asked me, I had two professions in mind. If one was to be a chef, I'd be able to speak to me. So in a weird fruit friends who were teachers, and then I ended up my only chef. So I feel like I just thought everything, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:You've rounded it out. And you've given us a beautiful lesson today in design, so we appreciate that. Um, and what about Jay? Does Jason love the period dramas too?
SPEAKER_03:So when you're talking about what you're gonna watch, does he he's not so into it, and he definitely has an eye roll if he can hear down to moment in the background. But it's more I mean again, it is it's more than it's not just the stories that are brilliant. It is the design, it's the houses. It's something I've always thought about was just, you know, would I ever live in a house that would be big and grand enough that I had a morning room and an afternoon room? I know so lavish. In those houses you moved around the room, depending on the people that don't do that these days. No, no. I think that I've always continued to think about those things when I'm watching it, as well as just, you know, the sort of petty drama unfolding. Um, although I would argue that downtown actually quite clever. Um so yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_01:It's funny. I'm jumping back to that other question because I just need to add this that um I didn't know you were in Carlsrue. I knew you were kind of Massed and Rangers area because that's where I grew up as well. I grew up in Gisbin. But my my my my um relation to food and Carlsrew is it was the only um, like you know, the got the truck stop, it was the only thing open. So when you were up very late as a teenager driving around and doing who knows what, we won't talk about that now. We would drive to Carlsrew just to get snacks.
SPEAKER_03:That's cute. I have to tell you, I have to tell you that they still make an amazing and very clean burder. And it is uh 10 out of 10. So I'm very aware of the truck stock um BP station at Carlsru. Um it's a very important, it's a very important, it's an important um landmark for the town. So I'm with you, Bru. I'm with you 100%.
SPEAKER_01:I'll have to make a stop there next time I'm going out that way again.
SPEAKER_03:Well, speaking of Miss Nature, you absolutely will. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's beautiful. Oh my gosh, Bri Brem, that was the best chat. Thank you so much for your time. I know you're extremely busy and thanks for the generosity.
SPEAKER_01:And we're having me. This is you in pre-Christmas.
SPEAKER_03:I I love I love what you're both doing. I love what you're both doing here. I love what you're both doing individually, but um, but as a as a social, um as a social experiment, I love what you do. Um speak and how you talk about design and inclusivity. It's amazing. And thanks for having me. Thanks for being my friend.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, such a pleasure. Back at the classroom. See ya. Bye. Bye. So um thank you guys for listening in. And just a quick reminder: if you would like some help with the interiors for your own home, I can help you in a course called the Style Studies Essentials. Or um for designers out there, come into the design society for business and marketing and all of the things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and in the same show notes, you'll find a link to sign up for my soon-to-be-released uh furniture collections, pre-selected furniture collections, and cool trend information, and then in the future, some short courses on styling and trends as well.
SPEAKER_00:So, Goodfree. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create, and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present, and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.