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Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
Pantone Picks White, And Designers See Red!
The colour world just lit a match and called it neutral. Pantone crowned white as Colour of the Year, and we couldn’t let that pass without a serious debrief. With our friend and designer Jono Fleming, we dig into why a “blank canvas” lands as apathy for many, how politics always sneaks into palettes, and what this choice says about the stories brands tell when the world feels anything but calm.
We pull apart the forecasting machine—zeitgeist reading, panel dynamics, and the messy lag between runway hype and real homes. From Benjamin Moore & Co's safe browns to WGSN’s transformative teal and Dulux UK’s wave of blues, we compare signals and ask what colour could have held the moment with more honesty. Grey with a breath of blue. A slightly uneasy avocado. Blues that steady rather than sedate. These choices admit tension, instead of painting it out.
Then we get practical. What does white mean in lived-in spaces with pets, kids and real budgets? Why does white often telegraph luxury by exclusion, and how can you use it intentionally—layered, textured, characterful—rather than as a default? We share how trend cycles really move, why your home shouldn’t swing with every headline, and how to keep your colour confidence when the feed shouts “reset.” Design is allowed to soothe, but it should also say something. If your palette helps you act, rest and connect, it’s doing its job.
Subscribe for more candid interior talk, send this to a friend arguing for the landlord special, and tell us: what colour actually reflects the year ahead for you?
Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment.
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Welcome to Design Anatomy, the Interior Design Podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Bree Banfield.
Speaker 3:And me, Lauren Li, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.
Speaker 2:With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, we're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you.
Speaker 3:And today we had to call an emergency meeting because the Pantone colour of the year was just announced. And we are emotional, raging, confused. All of the above. All the emotions, we've invited our friend Jono Fleming to debrief with us. Thanks for being here, Jon o.
Speaker:Oh my gosh, thank you. As soon as you said, do you have time to have a chat about this? I was already taking notes for whoever would want to listen. I'm mad. I'm I'm raging.
Speaker 3:Same. I am in I'm in shock. I am scratching my head trying to make sense of this. So let's dive in. What are your thoughts, Bree?
Speaker 2:Um, well, I'm gonna go straight to I think the the obvious tone deaf situation where um we've talked about this before, where um, you know, politics plays a part in trend forecasting, right? Anything that's going on in the world, negative, positive, um plays a part. So there's obviously big discussions that happen before a colour like this gets released. You know, they're talking about all the ins and outs and the whys, and they're trying to actually predict something. So I'm just confused about did it not cross anyone's mind or did it not come up in conversation that potentially are white in today's political climate. And Johnny, you said it really well today in in your reel. If everyone anyone hasn't watched that, go watch it. Um that it's a weird, it's a weird choice. It's like why would you put that out there unless it's like a deliberate clickbait, rage bait situation? Um just different that you didn't have to go down the path of white to reflect what you know their their very short statement about it is um that it's about uh relaxation and quiet contemplation and people kind of reverting back to that. Uh I guess it's quite introspective. But there were there's there's lots of choices you could make other than white for that. Agree.
Speaker 3:What were your thoughts, Jono, when you first saw it?
Speaker:It's fun because you know, we all designers, everyone in the design community sort of in a way waits on bated breath of like, oh, what's it gonna be? And often it's a colour that is controversial. No, I don't agree with that. What's peach fashion is like that's not gonna be the next big colour. And the first thing that came to mind this morning was like I open it up and it's like it's white. And first I'm like, what? Where's where's the trying to punk us? Yeah. And then is this real? I thought it was like Pantone White Power. Like, this thing that came to my head, and I'm like, I couldn't not associate it with like the conversations about white nationalism and traditional values and like trad wifes and all this sort of thing that's happening in the states that is spreading that sort of rhetoric around the world. I couldn't not think of it. And I know a lot of people are gonna go, we absolutely not leave politics out of this, like this is just colours and stuff. And it's like, if you're gonna be so ignorant to think that politics doesn't seep into every single aspect of our lives, then you just keep burying your head in the sand. But it's a strategy, right? If you like neutrals and white colours and white paint and white walls, like you're a giant racist. I'm not saying that I might say you're a little boring in your interior choices, but you're not a racist. It's not about you, the consumer, whether you love this as a crazy wild concept. It's really about Pantone, I think, making a really big choice.
Speaker 2:I think so too, yeah. And you felt like that too, didn't you, Lauren?
Speaker 3:Well, exactly. I mean, Pantone is not a paint company, and it's not an interior design company, it is a colour company, a colour forecasting company. And as you said at the top, Bree, they are taking in it's the zeitgeist, it's what's happening in the world, and they're kind of, I don't know, I imagining looking at all different perspectives and they decide of the colour of the year. And I mean, in the past, I've looked at the colours, as you said, Jono, and I'm like, I don't, I don't see why that's relevant right now. But sometimes it's actually looking back and I go, oh, that did make sense, but it took three years for it to make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And my first thought was the same as you, Jono. I was just like Sydney Sweeney, having good jeans, American Eagle. It's so on the nose. And if they're looking at those Zeitgeist, then how did they miss that?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't and I feel like um the it's like what you were talking about with the the tread wife and you know, looking at looking at something that devoid of for me, it's actually more devoid of emotion when I see it. And the the word that I keep coming back to is apathy. And I do think there's a lot of apathy in the world at the moment. So from that point of view, and I mean that's not what they're saying, it is, but that was my first thing was this is apathy, even their whole take on why that colour, and to not be even uh in a way considering what's really going on at the moment, which I don't think is sure. I think we'd all love to do some quiet contemplation, but I don't think I think it's I think we're in activation mode, aren't we? Not quite contemplation mode. We're in like what we need to do things and we need to make changes, and there's a lot happening in the world. So I get that maybe they're trying to like say, oh, this is like the the antidote to that is to like, you know, what are we saying? It's like um padded cell.
Speaker 3:It's giving asylum. It is giving, I don't find that colour calming.
Speaker:It's natural whitewashing, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yes, it's just like there's definitely connotations, right?
Speaker 2:Whether you like it or not, there's connotations.
Speaker 3:Well, when I was trying to understand it, um I I saw that um Laurie Pressman, who is like the the vice president or the president of Pantone, said it's like a blank canvas and it's a desire for a fresh start. And I think that exactly what you're saying, Bree, it's apathy. It's like what we need more than ever is for people to be active, to take action. You know, I'm just being over everything. No, we're in it. We're so in it. And you see, yeah, you see like the ice raids happening and you know, all of these things happening overseas. And I mean, to some extent, I don't know how much we take on. I mean, you sort of mentioned that before, Jono. All the white nationalists. We are influenced by American culture, protests and things, right? Yeah, yeah. And I don't want to see white, I don't want to paint over it. I want to, I want to tackle it headfirst. I don't, I'm not up to that fresh start yet.
Speaker:It's the it's the landlord special of like healing the world. It's like everything's fine. Don't worry, we'll paint it over like a lot of the keys, everything's fine.
Speaker 2:Everything's fine. We just need a little quiet contemplation and everything was like fine.
Speaker:You know, there's black mold growing under here, like it's still best for me. Paint it all white and say everything's fine. It's not. No way, alright.
Speaker 3:And that's making me really mad to think that they can say that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I um uh, you know, looking at trend things basically daily as part of my job, and I look a lot at fashion and lifestyle and even just like you know, TikTok trends and things, and there's like such a massive backlash against that trad wife, clean girl aesthetic, things being perfect, even in like graphic design, like in imperfection, hand-drawn. This is where I'm seeing things going because thing people are really pushing back on it. And that sort of the messy girl aesthetic is a thing. People are smoking again, people are like, they don't care if they're out all night and their makeup's the same the next day. It's like a really big backlash against that. And for me, this is going the other direction and kind of trying to reinforce that kind of I don't know, everything, yeah, everything's fine. And um, you know, like the world is beautiful, and you've just got to go sit in a white room with some clouds and have a little quiet contemplation. It's delusional, it'll be fine. It is a bit delusional.
Speaker:Yeah, it's delusional. That would have been a little bit more reflective of like the world and the time we're 100%.
Speaker 3:Well, I think my sort of prediction was this kind of avocado green, like a slightly sickly, sickly green. Because I feel like, yeah, exactly, but could be fresh, but could be, I guess almost in the chatrouse as you were sort of um yeah, I don't know, but I think it's not.
Speaker 2:I expected it to be conservative. I expected safeness because if you basically, if you look back in history, anytime the world feels the way it does now, particularly politically, there's a lot of people who are very unsure, you know, global financial crisis, we're kind of like on the edge of that, right? So what usually happens is people return to safety, and that tends to be safe colours or grounding colours. So it's usually in, you know, the brown, beige, greyige, etc., in that kind of family of like uh it feels like a bit of it does feel like a bit of nothing, but for it to be completely reset to a white, that's not just like a bit of nothing. That's like, yeah, it's like we're trying to reset when we're not even, it's not even there. We're not even close to being able to reset. Yes, we might be holding everything back and and being quite safe in decisions that we're making about our spending money or you know, life decisions because we're not sure about what's happening in the world. So those things tend to kind of affect decisions we make from a decorating point of view as well. But why isn't it? I'm just, yeah, I'm still I still think there were better choices. Uh um, so the there are other people doing colour of the year. Painting is obviously one of the one of the bigger ones that we're the average person probably knows about that. There's paint companies like Benjamin Moore, who are American, and their color was like a, I would call it like a grade-off brown, like a charred brown, very neutral, very conservative, like rental carpet color. You know that rental carpet?
Speaker:I'm just looking it up. I'm just looking up that palette for their 2026 palettes. Pretty, it's very subdued, but it's really interesting reading the wording that they're saying on the website. So they're saying delicate, traditional. It literally says here the color trends of 2026 signals a return to timeless classics and thoughtful attention to detail. And I just read all of that as traditional and delicate and a return to classics of like good traditional family value. Like this is how it's supposed to be. And we're not taking risks here, we're going with karma colours, and it's that confirmative thing. I mean, Benjamin Moore's an American company, so they're gonna reflect, you know, what is happening in that space as well. But it yeah, like what you're seeing it across the board, I guess, for like two pretty big color forecasters right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, the other one, um, WGSN, which is again, they're not a they're not a paint company, they're not an interior company, they're just literally a trend forecasting company. And their color of the year prediction was transformative teal, which for me had a lot more meaning. And this is, you know, it's supposed to be fashion, graphic design, um, packaging, cosmetics, etc. So it's really hard, honestly. I will say it's a very difficult job to choose one color as a direction for a whole year.
Speaker 3:Like that's that's it's not that's why Panda really didn't choose one. They didn't choose one.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They went, it's just too hard.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they were just looking at the black piece of paper that was supposed to be pinning ideas, and they went, actually, it's just what phone like the other thing is, like, people think that Pantone.
Speaker:I think a lot of people hear the Pantone colour of the year and they go, Oh my god, that's the colour that's gonna be in fashion. It's gonna be in every interior now. Designers are gonna put it in. And as you said, sometimes it takes a couple of years for it to filter through, and they don't always get it right. But I'm thinking back to like I'm looking at the sort of bat catalogue of Pantone Color of the Years, and I think the first time it really clicked for me when they absolutely bang on nailed it was 2016, and it was Serenity and Rose Quartz, where it was like that millennial period. Yeah, the double color. And I was like, that was the first time I was like, oh, they've like, they are so on the pulse. This is it. Yeah, but they're also trend forecasting, they're not supposed to always be right on the money.
Speaker 2:You're gonna see no, it is it is a prediction, it's not a this is right now. I mean, it's only next year though, and we're we're in December.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But um, but yeah, I mean, you're spot on about like trend forecasting is not an exact science. There is a lot of science that goes into it, like facts, and it's not just all woo-woo, but the timing can change just by something dramatic even happening in the world. Absolutely. So, like the you know, it something that you think is gonna roll out kind of in the next year could take two years to catch on. And it could be really fast.
Speaker:It doesn't happen. Like when they did the gray and yellow thing a few years ago, I was like, gross, nobody wants that. And turns out they didn't really, like it's not really coming back in the way that they predicted.
Speaker 2:So gray, I would have actually almost expected because I was waiting for gray this year. We saw gray, let's say from an interior's point of view, grey is creeping back in, not in a big way like it was all over walls and you know, all over cabinetry, but it more as an accent, and it does go very well with the butter yellow, for instance.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I would have that would have been very, I mean, I wouldn't have been happy about it, but I could see it coming. Yeah. Um, grey is like probably one of the most conservative type of colours because there's no warp in it. I mean, you have a warm grey, I guess, but it's very different to say doing like a beige or a brown, which is quite traditional but very nostalgic, and there's warmth and there's grounding in it. But a gray is gray is like going in a different direction. And I kind of feel like that would have been a better choice, to be honest. Because it's a little bit, it's a little bit sad and conservative, you know. Like funny though, like it's more reflective than white, like you know, don't you think?
Speaker:And I mean, grey and yellow came 2021, so I can see where the thinking is that we're gonna come out of 2020 and we need to be uplifted, and there's still maybe a bit of shadow in with it all. And weirdly, like last year, this year's colour um was mockamus, and I remember when it came out, people were like, Oh, this is so obvious. So, like, when they get it right, and and it's like it is obvious, but you know what? That colour is still everywhere, the brown tones are still everywhere. So when they get it right, people complain.
Speaker 3:When they get it wrong, it's definitely a rose quartz. But I agree with you, Jono, that rose quartz. Um, I at the time I was like, what, this is random. And then now I look at Taylor Swift's album Lover, that was released three years after, and it's Rose Quartz and Blue. So it's weird how even the Pantone colour could actually even influence music.
Speaker:Totally. It's just across the board. What's um Life of a Showgirl is all about the like oranges and stuff, and two years ago it was peach fuzz. So maybe let's get the Swifties on this because they are all over that, some clue-dropping stuff, and I'm putting it out there now. Taylor Swift is working with Pantone, and she is printing this stuff like Oh, there'd be a million, there'd be a million of them.
Speaker 2:Let's get the Swifties going on the conspiracies and the Easter eggs.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I'm like, I'm my rage has bubbled down, and I think it's because I'm talking to you two, but I think it is just look, there's gonna be a lot of defensive people online going, yeah, this is it. I mean, look, um, our friend Jackie Turk, I'm gonna shout her out. She's been wanting to paint her room at her home, like one of her uh her living room at home. And she messaged me today, she goes, Great, I don't have to paint it anymore. I can live white.
Speaker 2:No, no, we're giving fuel to the people who won't make decisions about color. Even my neighbor's what I call white default, which is why I like look at it as being kind of apathy. And if we talk about white in interiors, it's not a decision, it's a default. People go into a default mode. They don't even realize it's a decision when they actually go to the paint store and realize how many whites there are, and then they go, Oh shit. I thought it was just that I could just go, oh, we'll paint it white. Totally. And then they kind of get caught up in the, you know, which white or whatever, or they don't and they paint it the whole wrong white. Yeah, they choose the white. But it is apathy and it's indecision and it's being sitting on the fence and not like just going bad or do. Like it's not for me, it's not living your life, making any kind of statement or connecting with any kind of emotion.
Speaker 1:Anyway, yeah, I mean that's what I hate.
Speaker 3:No, I was just gonna say that's what I hate about this cloud dreamer that it doesn't even have an undertone, it doesn't have a warm undertone, it doesn't really even have a cool undertone, it doesn't have anything. It's a bit dirty, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's like ever so slightly dirty panel white. Ever so slightly.
Speaker 3:But I mean, we've just had white bouquet for the past however years. So it's not even it's like a new colour anyway.
Speaker:Well, it's a pretty boucle sofa, isn't it?
Speaker 3:After a few actually quite relatable for me with my chair.
Speaker 2:I think there's been some people saying when you watch that AI, you know, you know, they do the AI version, and basically it's somebody kind of floating around with the with the clouds and the you know, soft, probably boucle so far, that it's a a bit dystopian. I I agree, it's disconnect to me. It's like disconnect instead of actually dealing with things. I'm just gonna go and take my pills. My head in the clouds. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:I think this is the thing, is that, and you mentioned it, Lauren. Like, we've spent so many years getting people comfortable enough to dip their toe in the color pool. And then I've got people like Jackie messaging me, being like, Oh, thank god, I don't have to make a decision. I'm gonna keep the room white. And I had my neighbor message when he goes, Oh, I was just getting comfortable with color, but now I can retreat. And I'm like, No, no, don't do it. And then a girlfriend We need to revolt. I know, and one of my girlfriends who we just told her, like, paint all the walls in your house. She's like, I just painted all the walls in my house over all the white. She's like, I'm going around it chopping all the cushions now. I'm not listening to anything else you say to me. And I was like, So funny.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, no, this is so I would say, like, who wants to be the same as everyone else anyway, right? If this is if white is the thing, then we'll push against it.
Speaker:There are gonna be people that love neutrals, that love white, that love white paint, all of that.
Speaker 2:That's okay. You were always gonna be.
Speaker:When they came out, if they had come out with chartreuse as the colour, you would have complained as well. Like you had your moment, you win. It's a big one for them. Yeah, it wouldn't have been complaining. Oh no, I wouldn't have complained.
Speaker 3:Yes, people will, yes.
Speaker:That's okay.
Speaker 3:People would have been like, that colour's disgusting.
Speaker:I think for me, yeah, does raise the bigger question of how relevant are these big trend forms? Like taking it out of just interiors, the latest fashion show that I've just watched was the Chanel show. And Chanel is, I guess you could. Say it's a pretty conservative fashion house. And who's the new uh Matthew Blazy is the probably butcher that is the new creative director there, artistic director doing the show. And they did this beautiful uh new run runway in like an abandoned subway station. And it's so good. And it's full of detail and it's full of colour and there's animal print and there's all sorts of patterns and things happening. And it's a dirty subway. And it's a dirty subway. And I'm like, okay, we're getting told that like this is the colour of the year. This is the thing that we're supposed to be looking out for. And creatives are just going to do whatever the hell they want. And I think it kind of shows that the trend cycle's moving a lot faster than it used to. It's not taking years for things to filter through. It's definitely not true.
Speaker 2:Um well that's the that's the it's yes and no. So what's happening is yes, it happens very quickly because we all see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But in real life, how long does it take if you order a sofa from Italy to arrive in a state?
Speaker:People's gonna love their white sofas, so you know they're right on trend. Well done.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the other thing, too, is that um like white has this representation of luxury, in my opinion, too. And like so, there's this sort of purist white is luxury because if you can have a white sofa or white carpet or white fabrics, there's an element of luxury to that as well. So like that feels a bit on the nose too. Like we're like we're heading into a a situation in a lot of places where poverty is going to be a real thing for many people that weren't in that position before. Um so I don't know. It's just I don't know that it's I don't know that it was a great um predictor, in my opinion. I think it was like a a weird choice. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall of those discussions. And this and how they actually landed there.
Speaker:One person in that room would have brought it up, right? One person must have brought it up. And they went, nah, it's okay. They could have gone with poverty purple. I would have been happy with that.
Speaker 2:That's poverty. Actually, that wouldn't have worked either. Because purple is like a raw colour. So that's also yeah, that's poverty is probably more in the browns and the and the very conservative and grey. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Give us something. It's so nothing. And I when I looked onto the, I'm trying to understand, I'm trying to grasp and find some information. And one of the points was it's a nothing colour, which is almost like if you're an eco-conscious person, I saw it on, I think it was like the Guardian website or the Guardian and a Guardian article, and they said that it was like an opt-out and nothing. I'm not going to buy anything, nothing. I was like, I don't know if I'm really convinced about that.
Speaker 2:I don't know if we can twist it to being um an eco-friendly.
Speaker 3:No, it's I know they've got the white play-doh. It's like, you know, all the collaborations that they have, it's like it's just white. They already have white play-doh. Like this, it's just a nothing. It's not even giving anything new. But yeah, it just seems kind of tone-deaf to me. But I like what you were saying, John Out it is hard to predict the trends because it does move so quickly. But everyone almost has their own bubble that they're living in. And I heard this term, it was um subjective reality. Everyone has their own version of reality, which is always always being you're living in the world.
Speaker 2:It's like having your own algorithm. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It is having your own algorithm, or it's like, you know, walking down the street and you've got you're listening to a podcast and you're experiencing it this way. And the next person's talking, they're talking that to someone there on a phone call on their own their own reality. So it's really hard.
Speaker 2:That's the reason to have panels that decide this stuff because you're supposed to have all the different points of view come into the discussion. Yeah, I've I've been on these panels before, and I'm not talking about, you know, the deluxe forecast. I've been involved in global panels for trend forecasting, and we have in-depth, you know, like two-day-long discussions, you know, in small groups, in bigger groups, we present our findings, everyone discusses it. Like it's it's like a proper democracy. Um, and we all have a say. And usually why it's successful is even though we're all coming at things from um, you know, our own subjective reality, which I love that. I'm gonna use that now. Um, there's usually still threads that connect us all. We all still live in the world. We all still are affected by, you know, bigger things that are happening. Um, and this happens when you get a whole heap of creatives together from all over the world. And this is why things like Milan, um, you walk through and see repeating colours from people who have not had discussions about these colours. They're not like, you know, messaging each other and going, I'm gonna put blue on my sofa this year in the display. What color are you gonna do? They have never had discussions before, they're on opposite sides of the world, but we see a same thing, whether it's a texture, a color, a shape, because we're all, while we're still living in our subjective realities, we're still all affected by what's going on around us. And yes, we're out there in the vibe, guys. But like yeah, that's why it feels odd. And are we missing something as to why this was the decision when I am making the assumption that there were long, in-depth discussions between people with different points of view, and maybe that was the problem. Maybe they weren't coming at it from too many different places, yeah. Um, yeah, where you get a more balanced view. And I agree, trend forecasting isn't easy. I think it is uh potentially more difficult, particularly to forecast long term. Um, but it is still, there is still a science to it. There is a reality. History repeats itself. You can study the way um interiors and colour and the reaction to things have evolved and actually see all the patterns. We're human beings. This is how we live, where patterns are our thing. So there's ways to do it. Yeah, but I guess the world is changing, right?
Speaker:The world is changing. So Lauren's Lauren's pick would have been like a dirty avocado sort of colour. What would have your colour of 2020?
Speaker 2:Probably a gray.
Speaker:A gray.
Speaker 2:A gray, yeah.
Speaker:What a bummer.
Speaker 2:I know. Not you know, and you and that's but that's literally just based on where like the direction of the world and what I'm seeing happening. Um, I wouldn't have gone as far as a Y.
Speaker:No, absolutely. Um, yeah, no, because I've you guys have been threatening Grey's coming back for a while, and I'm just like really avoiding it at all costs. But interestingly, like not going too far off it, like the colour that I am, I'm not saying that this is my pick for the trend, but I'm like the colour I'm I'm gravitating towards is this sort of very pale blue, which between a white and a grey, really.
Speaker 2:A grey I think and would have been a better contemplative type colour, I think, too.
Speaker:All this all the shit that they're saying about like fresh starts and like all this stuff and clouds and all this beautiful dreamy imagery. If they just dropped one drop of blue in there, it would have actually all made sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, it's a little bit more positive leaning too. But the problem is that's not where we're at. We're not in a positive. I mean, we would like to be, but I think that um, which is why I would have picked something a little bit more to include, um, because we're trying to reflect, you know, the mood.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:A grey with a tiniest bit of blue or a grey with a little bit of purple is probably where I would have gone.
Speaker:Purple as well. I I I think when what we saw in Milan was a lot of chartreuse, a lot of purple, the maroones were still there, but I was dreading like this like idea of put purples and chartreuse coming into fashion. And now my god, all I want is someone take that risk and not give us like beige white traditional family values.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe there's just going to be a huge um like divide, which is also what we're seeing in the world, a really big divide between conservatism and um, I guess more progressive.
Speaker 3:This is definitely not, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, isn't it when you add all the spectrum together, it's white? Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So maybe it's all the colours, maybe it represents all the colours and you choose.
Speaker 1:That's a cop out. It's a cop out pantomime.
Speaker 2:That's a cop out.
Speaker 3:I agree.
Speaker 2:Oh no, yeah. I love I mean, it is worth if you um want to read some interesting comments, it's definitely worth having a look at their post and going through the comments. I because I liked um it's crazy.
Speaker:People are not happy.
Speaker 2:I like someone said um is the colour in the room with us. I liked that one. Um, and someone else said straight jacket white, which I think we already said, like padded cell.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then they were talking about dystope. Oh, yeah. Like it's just, I didn't really see. Okay, so sometimes there's a balance of comments, right? Everyone's always going to be up in arms no matter which colour it is, because it's personal. People like colour, they hate some, they like others. That's like everyone has an opinion. But for me, I felt like this was the proper this, I didn't really see a positive comment in there at all.
Speaker:Um look, as I said, we're not attacking the people that think that it's a nice, safe choice. Go nuts. If you're if people're not a colour person and you've spent your whole life fighting against it, you're probably not gonna be a colour person. This is your year. Have fun. But next year, chat.
Speaker 3:T-Rick, I'm in for you.
Speaker 2:We're not gonna take two neutral avoiding things and having apathy.
Speaker:This is the one year you're gonna get this because next year, Pantone is not gonna fuck up again like they have this time.
Speaker 3:But I wonder if they actually are taking on any, like, oh my god, this is not what we expected, or do they expect this? I'm so curious.
Speaker 2:Because it is like it is a massive marketing tool. I would say color of the year has put Pantone on the map for people who had no idea what Pantone was. If you didn't live in a world of like having to um, even interior designers, a lot of them wouldn't have known what Pantone was. Um, I had to use it because I developed products, so we'd use Pantone as reference. Um, or if you're a graphic designer or you're in printing, you know Pantone. But it, you know, that one point they just decided they were going to make themselves a really well-known brand, and there's now Pantone, you know, branded mugs and all sorts of things. Um, but color of the year is like a huge marketing strategy for them, right? So I I do have that little question mark of how much of a decision was this because they knew it would get a lot of attention. Look at us, we called an emergency podcast. And we're giving them their time. Um, so like you do kind of go, it's a marketing strategy, how much of it was a marketing strategy? I I lean into like where they've gone in terms of it being, I agree with a conservative direction for what the colour should have been. However, I I think they really took it to the extreme, and maybe that was a conscious choice. I don't know.
Speaker:Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
Speaker 3:How many of those white mugs are they gonna how many of those white mugs are they gonna sell? It's just a white mug now. That's funny.
Speaker:That is so funny. Oh no. Um hey, I guess we'll guess the world is more oyster now because um anything else can happen after this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I I think that's everyone's announced. I don't I think they're the last ones to announce a colour of the year. The um the other big one that tends to I usually pay attention to because Australia tends to follow Europe more than America in terms of interior trends, um, is the Dulux UK colour of the year. And theirs was, I don't know that they've done an actual single colour. I couldn't find it. Um, but they've called it Dulux Colours with an S of the Year, and they're blues. It's a it's a selection of blues, grooves, slow swing, and mellow flow. So I find that interesting that they kind of went with that, and that's a bit more of a transformative type colour as well. Um, but that can be really calming, yeah, but can also be quite energizing. But yeah, so it's very safe as well.
Speaker 3:Blue is a mass appeal.
Speaker 2:Blue is one of the most popular colours. If you ask people their favorite colour, blue is one of the most popular.
Speaker 3:So definitely I think it's a safe one because of men like blue.
Speaker:You know what's interesting though, like we say that, and it is true. Um, people will say that. And yet if you look up the and we're kind of shifting gears a little bit, I'm really just taking us on a journey here. If you go on like every Australian furniture website, yeah, you'll get a caramel or forest green, a chocolate, maybe, and a beige. No one sells a blue sofa, like they've barely get a blue sofa, and you don't find a lot of drugs. Like blue in interiors is something people love, but they don't, as Australians, I don't think you'd think there'd be a lot more. We're such a coastal nation. People love the coast, but we go to coast and we just start going to whites, and you don't get a lot of blues in the um in the mix there. And I'll do it my own plug here, but like a rug collection at the moment, and one of the best sellers is this sort of steely light blue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, the one. And with a here, I think it I think that's a good point, right? That people bring they might not paint, they might not buy a blue sofa or paint the whole wall blue because they love blue, but they'll still include it in the interior, right? They'll have blue accents, maybe it's blue in the rug, cushions, artwork, small pieces, and so they bring it in that way. Um, yeah, but it's I'd still I still say it would be considered to be a safe color in the world of actual colour. Actual colour. Um it's interesting that uh so the Dulux UK um colour explanation is a lot more, I feel, progressive compared to the one you just read from Benjamin Moore about the traditional. They're saying um it offers a sense of stability, fluidity, and boundlessness. Um, and it's what we need in today's hectic world. Also the world's favorite color. Calming properties of blue make it perfect for creating serene, fluid, they use that word again, color scheme. So I feel like there's little undertones of a progressive direction there compared to it's a bit more positive. Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, always interesting, always interesting, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I think who knew that white would be so divisive? It's white, it's nothing.
Speaker:Who knew we could talk about white walls for white paint and white walls for this long?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Well, it's been good to chat.
Speaker:I think it's I feel better now. I it's been a really positive sort of therapy session.
unknown:Yes, yes.
Speaker:I think we needed it.
Speaker 3:Have you calmed down or are you more fired after?
Speaker:The blood pressure's down a bit. Um, I'm gonna go drink some wine. Not white. You're gonna go. It's like a rose or uh yeah, something a little hint of colour in it at least.
Speaker 2:Go relaxing in a white room.
Speaker:No, God, oh, who wants to do that? Oh, I can't, and the thing is, I'm getting fired up again. I'm gonna see lots of people justifying it being it's fresh, it's relaxing, and it's gonna be like it's not like stressful, particularly.
Speaker 2:As I said before, it's like a luxury thing because you need the luxury of a either being able to clean or replace it, or be living kind of on your own with no pets and which I don't consider to be a luxury, but let's say like people who are like, you know, able to go like there's no pets in here or there's no children or whatever. So it's actually kind of a stressful colour for an interior in a way, right?
Speaker 3:Oh, I agree. Do you know the oh, I was just gonna say the only person who I love that does white is Leanne Ford. So I'm gonna jump on her Instagram and see what she's saying about the Pantone colour because I think she just is a really great designer decorator, and she uses white in an intentional way, and I think that's the difference, right? And intentional thing as well, Bree. Yes, it's the room that's white that you have intended, and it's textured, yes, layered, textured, has character, yeah, has mood. Yeah, she's a cool person, so she gets away with it. Absolutely.
Speaker:I think, I think, yeah. Look, I think we've I think we've said it all. Um I think so.
Speaker 2:And we'll probably repeat ourselves many times over the coming weeks.
Speaker:The thing is, is that like I put up a reel this morning really quickly, mainly just because I was like, I want to get this off my chest a bit. Yeah. And I said in a I normally try and keep things really positive because I think there's so much in interiors and there's so many people. I mean, there's a lot of men online floating heads telling you what's right and what's wrong. So I've always been someone like if I'm gonna be another one of those men online telling people what to do in their home, I want to do it.
Speaker 1:You do not give that vibe. Thanks.
Speaker:But I'm like, what a value add. I want to make sure people aren't feeling shit about their interiors. I don't want people to feel bad about their homes.
Speaker 2:Oh no, of course not. Yeah. And but if they not intentionally, but if they are feeling bad about it, sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm everywhere.
Speaker:But I think the thing is it's like immediately I have three friends who I've given advice to if they watch my advice and they're like, oh wait, wait, we we don't need to paint our homes now. Okay, we can just live with our cut like white walls. Oh, I can regress a bit. And I'm like, as far as I sort of said this morning, I'm like, I don't, I normally try and put a positive spin on things. I don't really have anything nice to say this time. And I'm not trying to be a clickbaity person to be like, here's my rage bait, but I'm like, I don't have anything positive to say, and that's just what it is. I'm like, I think immediately think about how many people have bloody color drenched their homes this year.
Speaker 1:The whole thing, every goddamn wall, and the ceiling, and the don't forget the train, and then they woke up this morning and they're like, take it all back to white, and they've got a deep burgundy bedroom.
Speaker 2:Like waiting over there to get it back to white.
Speaker 1:They've gotta wake up this morning and feel like garbing.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden, Julex has been had a huge surge in sales of their um super hyde. I think it's called super hide or something, where it's like the undercoat and like hides the feet.
Speaker:And I feel god for that's the people I feel bad for who have like finally taken this big step and like expressed themselves through colour. And yes, did I say that or drinking the feature wall of the 2025?
Speaker 2:Sure, maybe, but feature wall in white, yeah.
Speaker:It's just the white thing.
Speaker 2:So they've got their burgundy interior, and like, oh gosh, how do we get back on trend? We'll just do a white feature wall. That's hilarious. But oh my god, this could be a thing. Jeez, that's weird. Um, but to be honest, as well. That's oh sorry, just for the people who are maybe flipping out a little bit. If the colour had been chartreuse, would you be suddenly painting your house back to chartreuse? No. Just because it's white doesn't mean that you need to adapt it because it seems like something you can adapt and all of a sudden everyone's going to do white. They're not. Did everyone do, you know, pink balls? They didn't. Like it's take it all with a grain of salt, have conversations about the why of the white, I think is important and more important is to um and how that applies to you is going to be different and it doesn't apply to probably any of us. We wouldn't go that direction. But someone might go, well, you know, I was already here in the white space. They're the people that are going to be happy about it, I think. Um or just, or just like, okay, yeah, it's fine. They're not going to be raging about it like we are. But I think it's the why, the why of the white. Yeah. This is the questions. We need to have those discussions.
Speaker:Yeah. I think that's a really good point. And I and and I glad I'm glad we dove into it because someone's going to have that conversation and it's may as well be us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well any last thoughts?
Speaker:No. No, I've I have nothing left.
Speaker 3:It's nothing. It's a nothing colour and it's no more comments. I've got just it's I think I've I've gone through the emotions of shock and surprise then thinking oh my god this sounds political going in the comments getting that yes it is political because that's what everyone else is thinking too and then disappointment well or no I think I was mad and I was now I'm just disappointed and sad and now I was just like oh that's nothing yeah it's nothing you know what now we're all just going to be flat we've just got got it out yeah just feel like disappointed I think we just keep doing what we do and spread our love of colour and and discussion and discussion I think I think that's it like and if anyone is listening God if you're still here listening to us talk about white and you're still not convinced that it is isn't a political thing or like I think either you're a lost cause oh no this is so just that I don't want to be controversial online take it all back.
Speaker:Take it all back um I'm full troll mole uh troll mode now. No I think troll molecules I think I think if you really don't think that interiors fashion film art anything like oh let's keep politics out of it that's just not the world we live in. It's just not realistic.
Speaker 2:In fact I would go the other way and say art exists to reflect all of those things. Not always sometimes it is just literally for aesthetic or joy but most artists have something to say and they're they're saying it from their point of view or whatever. Absolutely so this is the Pantone point of view I guess yeah yeah nothing. Yeah they don't have one I got no point of view it should be called head in the clouds colour should be called apathy I reckon yeah that's my that's what I that's my that's my that's the new name for palatable than white power slightly slightly oh dear well thank you for thank you for the therapy I needed it's just a jumping for the meeting thanks for the emergency meeting good Friday therapy session.
Speaker 3:Yeah thanks John O talk soon thank you we've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation they're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.