Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
YouTube channel launching soon.
Design Anatomy
Designer Revealed: Journey to a Creative Life with Lauren Li
Ever wondered what goes through a designer's mind when a client asks for a bedroom that feels like "a warm vagina"? Yes, you read that correctly......
In this delightfully candid conversation, this week we chat with Lauren Li to explore her creative journey and unique approach to creating spaces where people truly feel themselves.
Lauren takes us back to her formative years, sharing how a bold phone call to RMIT after an initial rejection changed the trajectory of her career. With disarming honesty, she recounts her early influences – from the high school art teacher who first recognized her talent to the architect who meticulously red-penned her drawings. These collective experiences shaped a design philosophy that prioritizes authenticity over perfection.
The conversation shifts to her transformative time working in London, where Melbourne's minimalist aesthetic collided with European opulence. This cultural contrast expanded Lauren's design vocabulary and deepened her understanding of how spaces must adapt to different contexts and client needs. Most fascinating is Lauren's profound connection with her clients – particularly high-powered professional women who need their homes to serve as sanctuaries from demanding careers. "I want them to feel like the queens they are," she explains, revealing how creating these restorative spaces fulfills her as a designer.
Lauren also speaks candidly about the challenges of creative entrepreneurship. Despite her success, she acknowledges that financial management doesn't come naturally but is something she continuously works to improve. Her perspective on success is refreshingly practical – it's not about accumulating wealth but creating the freedom to do meaningful work while maintaining flexibility as a parent and business owner.
Looking toward the future, Lauren shares her dream of expanding 'The Design Society', her platform for elevating interior designers through education and community. In an age where AI tools increasingly influence the design process, she firmly believes in the irreplaceable value of human connection and shared experiences.
Ready to be inspired? Listen now and discover why creating spaces where people can truly be themselves might be the ultimate design achievement.
Bree is now offering a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment.
Bookings now open - Book now
Join Lauren online for a workshop to help break down the Design steps to run your project & business a little smoother with the Design Process MasterClass, opening 15th October!
For more info see below
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me, Lauren Li.
Bree:And me, Bree Banfield, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.
Speaker 01:With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived in spaces, we're excited to share our insights and inspirations with you. And what's going on with you this week, Bree?
Bree:Uh, I am busily still working away on the website. Why do they? They're like real-time sockers, aren't they? Trying to change my website over to a different platform. It's everyone who's tried to do this knows how much you kind of go, ah, doesn't seem too hard. And then it's just one thing after the other object. But anyway, nearly, nearly done with that. But we are um working away on content for our newsletter, which will, when I say our newsletter, it's pretty much just me, crackingly.
Speaker 01:Right. Which I feel like is like our superpower that it's just us. Because if you work with us, you know, if you work with Bree, you get Bree. Like that's so cool. That's true. And what about your furniture um selections? How are they going?
Bree:Yeah, good. We're hoping to have so once the website's actually up and running, we'll get back on track. We're launching our curated um packages. It's cool. And they'll be really good for people who don't want to invest in full service design, and they can still get a design that I've created um for themselves, but at a lower price, I guess. At a little bit, just really value added. Yeah, so cool. Yeah, so I guess subscribe to the newsletter, then you'll know when those are released, and um, you'll get a whole heap of other fun stuff with them. So fun. What about you, Noah?
Speaker 01:Well, this week I have been locking down our um event for the design society. So that's talking through the whole design process. Um, and I'm just really excited about it. We've got a few people that have signed up. I'm like, oh my gosh, you're you're fun, you're easy, you're good vibes, you're very sharing. Because I think you sometimes, you know, sitting around a table of interior designers and having coffee, chats, sharing stories. I'm an open book, and sometimes uh somebody when somebody else starts sharing, it's kind of like everybody else feels comfortable to kind of share their stories and insights, and it's just it's kind of special. And I think um, you know, I I have my head in a computer screen, I'm on Chat GPT, it's so rare. Like I'm all for AI and all of the tech stuff, but to actually sit around a table together, it's it is a goosebumps. We get the goosebumps moments, and it's kind of cool, and it's the connections that you that you make in a day like that, and the memories and everything. Yeah, I don't know, maybe I'm a bit sentimental, but it's just such a nice thing.
Bree:Yeah, no, I totally get it, especially when you work solo, those moments where you get to have um more collaborative experiences and share stuff and come away feeling not just more educated in whatever the topic is, but actually feeling more connected to the industry. I think it's a great, it's a great day.
Speaker 01:It's such a great day, and I'm excited to go to the Ace Hotel again because it's just so fun there. And um, yeah, in Melbourne we're doing that at the forum, which is like a co-working space in um Cremour. Yeah, that sounds cool. Yeah, it's one of the new buildings. I mean, it's just so vibrant in that little pocket. Um there's yeah, the baker blue downstairs, as I've said, like that's the main draw card.
Bree:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 01:The most epic sandwiches you've ever seen. They're like incredible. Um, so yeah, that's what we're working on. So if you're an interior designer and you want to just get some uh advice on your design process and fees and just all of that stuff, that's what we're talking about for the whole day, and it's just a great day. But um perfect, yeah.
Bree:So that's fun. Well, it will be very I mean, a lot of people I think know exactly who you are, and you probably have lots of people listening that have spent time with you doing some of these courses and know how fabulous it is to spend time with you and you sharing your learnings. So today, why don't we just find out more about you, Lauren? Um, if you're if you're listening regular, you'll know that uh last time I was the person being interviewed. I always say interview, but you know, we're really just chatting, aren't we? Um and we're now we're gonna chat to Lauren so we can learn a little more about her. And I reckon I might even learn more about you because there's always more to learn, right?
Speaker 01:Always.
Bree:Yeah, so we're just gonna dive right in. And I think this is a good one because it's something I spoke about. But do you do you have a moment when you knew? Like, is there something you can recall that you had this kind of light bulb? Like, I'm going to be an interior designer.
Speaker 01:It was so cool when I asked you that question because it was quite similar for me. I think um, you know, interior design or interiors or just even being aware of the space has just always been something, but you kind of don't really realize it's a thing. And um, again, when I was graduating and you had the V VTAC book or whatever it was called. Ah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you had books then. Yeah, we had books, and it was like tiny little print, like yellow pages of all the different courses you could apply for. And it was kind of, I just thought that's when I sort of remember thinking, oh, that's what I'm gonna do, interior design or graphic design. I applied for all of those courses. I went to the RMIT um campus, which was so exciting for the interview. And I remember, I remember it so clearly. The classroom, I remember the lady Vicky, she was the one that interviewed me. So if you studied, yeah, if you studied interior design, the diploma back in the day, Vicky was like a really big part of that course, and I pulled out all of my artwork, so it was a more of an art-based folio. And I the first round offers came through and I didn't get in. And I was just okay, right, what am I gonna do? Yeah, so I enrolled into a different course, which was more of a foundation design course, and I was I think I might have gone to two classes. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna pick up the phone and call RMIT, like like it's a thing you just look up and go, can I speak to RMIT? Like, I have no idea. But I somehow got through and I said, I need to get into this course, I really, really want to be here. I don't know what I said, but I feel like sometimes, you know, as you said, Bree, sometimes you do need to just be like, this is what I need to do, and I I just have to figure out how to make that happen. And I I really believe in that. And I I don't know, I don't really see myself as a hugely pushy person, but I was just like, I need to do this course. So what I've got to lose, picked. I don't even think I told my mum or anything I was gonna do it, I just did it. Really? Yeah, and I just somehow they let me into the second round. So that's amazing.
Bree:I do think that it like there's something to really take from that is you don't have to be a pushy person, but I think it's sometimes just making a call or reaching out to someone, it's like when you're trying to, I don't know, say if you if you're looking for a pro a job at a particular firm that you were just like, I want to work here. Some and it seems like they probably get a million emails, and sometimes they do, but sometimes yours just stands out, or there's something about what you say, or the fact that you got in on that making a call, they would have gone, well, we know we can see you're serious about it, because there were probably a hundred other or more people that just went, oh well, and moved on. Whereas you went, actually, this is this is what I want to do. And so people, I don't know, I think people can sense that. So it's really worth doing. I think so. And so what I guess, so when you you mentioned Vicky, I can't believe you remember someone's name because I'm trying to remember any of my teachers, or like I don't think I can remember any of them. If someone said the name at my it's got my cup, but when you had, I guess, um, were in the course and you were going through all your learnings, was there someone that was a particular influence for you, like a teacher or someone in the industry that was like a mentor or kind of shaped how you, I don't know, learnt design?
Speaker 01:I don't think there was like one particular person, but I think you just learn a little bit from so many different people. Um in high school, the art teacher, Mr. Barron, he was such a he was really respected as a teacher and a little bit feared as well. Oh, I love that though. That's always a good teacher, I think. Yeah. So he was a really tall, lanky guy with a beard, and he was a no-nonsense guy. And so you you were like, oh my god, like that's Mr. Barron. Oh my god. And then I remember once um we I I did an artwork in the in the class, and he picked that up and he said, Oh, we're gonna frame that in the office. And that was the first time somebody kind of recognized little old me, because I didn't speak in class, like I was very quiet, very nerdy, front row, like really nerdy, dorky, whatever, just very sort of middle. Like I was friends with some of the nerds, but I was friends with some of the little more cooler people as well. Anyway, I was noticed by this teacher that I really respected, and I I sort of thought, oh, maybe I can do this a bit. Like it was really nice. Um, but yeah, so he was one of my first influencers, and also it was just such a nice uh classroom environment that he created. So when he said something was good that you really felt like, oh, okay, maybe I believe you, like, thank you.
Bree:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 01:That's nice, yeah.
Bree:And then uh art class is always good, I reckon.
Lauren:Oh, it was so fun. I loved it. I think yeah, in those years of high school, the like later years, I sort of found a little bit more myself in the art room. And I'm still friends with Karen today. So Karen was there in the art room as well. She was one of the more cooler people, so I really liked hanging out with Karen and she worked at Pizza Hut, and I'd go and visit her at Pizza Hut.
Bree:So art was like a um like a it was a leveller because I feel like that's exactly the same thing for me. Like when you're in art class, even though you've kind of gone through um, you know, like I guess you hang out in different cliques and you know who like the cool people are and um the nerdy ones and whatever. And I was the same. I definitely wasn't in the cool crowd at all. Oh yeah, right. No, I wasn't, I guarantee. I was one of the dorkiest because I ran my own race, I guess. Like, you know, I think I did too. Pink tights to school, and people were like, What is she doing? So I wasn't cool. People were just a bit more like, I don't know what she's about.
Speaker 01:Well, that was the era of grunge, so that would have stood out a bit.
Bree:I was still very 80s in my mind. Um, yeah, so I feel like when you're in the art class, or it maybe this is the same in the industry, everyone's like on the level playing field, and then when you're good at it, you kind of get noticed a little bit by the past, and not in a way like they're like what the how everyone appreciates when someone's good at it. And so the cool kids just become your friends, they're not, it's just this level art in the past.
Lauren:So it just nailed it. It was. Um, yeah, and then I guess other mentors, yeah. I think about, you know, other teachers. I mean, not really hugely, you know, that one-on-one kind of mental guide. Um, but then when I started working in an architectural practice, um, there was an architect who taught me a lot about how to document and would, you know, red pen all over my drawings. And I'd be like, oh my God, that is so bad. But then I'm like, now I look back, I'm like, you invested so much time into teaching me. Um his name was Richard. So um thanks, Richard, for teaching me how to draw. Um and then um, I don't know, I don't really have like a mentor as such, but it's just yeah, you learn a bit from everyone, I guess.
Bree:Yeah, it's um I think that it's great to have multiple, I guess, input from people in the industry because it helps shape different views too. And everyone has something to teach you, you know, everyone has a a strong skill set. Um, and it is a community, I think, that we take a lot of that learning from. So I totally get that there's multiple, multiple people, multiple inspirations. True. Um, so I guess was there is there a um was there like a turnaround moment though? So you when you've left school and you're out and you're working, and I know that we, you know, I think you and I both did hard yards in different places that was like, you know, we were just like one foot in front of the other, doing doing our thing. Was there a moment where you kind of went, ah, this is cool? I've actually, I don't know, like I have a career, not just a job.
Lauren:Um, I think um moving to London was like a big one.
Bree:Oh yeah, forgot about it.
Lauren:Yeah. So um, you know, I worked in architectural practices, and you know, it's so funny that you said that you spoke to a sales rep and they offered you a position basically, because I was in this architectural practice, as I said, doing markups and markups and schedules, and it was not the most exciting position that I thought it might be. You know, you've just I studied two years doing the diploma, then I did another four years doing the degree, and you're just like ready to like design. But you don't get to design, you do tasks. You do one task, then you have another task, and you're, you know, when you're working in a big practice, you are a small piece of the puzzle of a project. Um, you don't get to meet with clients, you don't get to see that feedback and all of those things. So I thought, you know what, I've always wanted to go and work overseas. I was 28, so I was very old. I know, I know. And I had a friend over there, and so off we went. And I think the thing was interior design over there back then, anyway, you had decorators and you had designers, but you had uh specifiers, but I didn't realize that they didn't all sort of learn the drawings skills, the more technical skills. So I came in and I I knew how to use AutoCAD, which was still, you know, it's very, very old software. Um Yeah, I know.
Bree:I'm AutoCAD too. We're all Revit now, absolutely.
Lauren:Um, but I was like the CAD manager. I I was setting up all of the the templates and the guidelines and and figuring out how to set that up within that. You become a teacher. Yeah. So um, and then I I thought, oh, okay, this is this is something I really enjoy doing, actually, like the technical stuff. And yeah, so that was probably a turning point. And then I guess another one was starting my own business when I had uh my first child, and I just absolutely take my hat off to women that work within architectural practices because the hours are ridiculous, you're expected to give them all your free time, and uh I just didn't know how I could fit into that place anymore. So I took on one project and take on another project, and um, the first project that I did actually, I photographed that and I entered it to the Australian Interior Design Award Awards, and it got shortlisted. So that was a really, really exciting moment to be recognized, like just on my first project basically. That's amazing. It was really cool. So that was a big moment. I was like, okay, this is what we're gonna do now.
Bree:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you need like it's funny about um awards and things. I want to say you you I don't want to say you need validation. I just think that the that moment, particularly in your early stages of a business, it's just kind of reminding you that you actually do know what you're doing. Oh, yeah, actually I'm kind of good at this. This is nice. Like, so it's like that little reminder because I think we're a lot of creatives, and I would say a lot of women have, you know, basically imposter syndrome. So we're always wondering if we're good enough. Yeah, cycles validating getting shortlisted. Yeah, like you would have had that, oh shit, at least for a little while.
Lauren:Yeah, to get it. I know, but yeah, it did give me the confidence. And I think, you know, especially in front of clients, like you do need to present yourself in a confident way. And I think when um, you know, other clients after that had seen that shortlist and they were like, oh, straight off the bat, they sort of feel that trust in you straight away. It's less having to prove yourself constantly when somebody already kind of believes what you can do.
Bree:Yes, ah, 100%. Um, so moving to London and working in London as a designer or CAD manager. No. Um, do you think that that that you grew more because you went overseas? I always wanted to do that and um unfortunately it didn't happen for me. Um, but that was always my plan. I think yeah, yeah. You're not yes, still time, still time. Didn't happen when I like when I as my plan was to basically move overseas and and live and work somewhere overseas. Because I do I I have the theory that it just grows you as a a better person when you have better understanding of different cultures. And I, you know, highly encourage traveling for anyone, particularly young people, because I think you need to learn all of that just to be, I don't know, a little more humble and under I don't know, I just have a bit more empathy and all of that stuff. Do you think that it actually grew? Do you think doing that really made a difference to maybe how quickly you grew into your self and confidence as a designer?
Speaker 01:Yeah, I think that you know, in Melbourne, we don't realize we have a certain aesthetic and it's quite minimal. And especially back then, it was very paired back, black and white and grey. Let's add a bit of grey just to be out there kind of thing. Well, and then I went over to London and it was so different. There, one of the projects we were working on was a display suite for a development in Belgravia, which is basically like Mayfair, like you know, Monopoly board, it's right at the end. Um so it was one of those colonnade um buildings, and it was amazing. And the opulence, it was so new to me. The their um their buyer that they were looking at was maybe in the Middle East or something. So it was about having Lalique goal, um lalique handmade glass French like console tables. I was like, ooh, are they a bit yucky? But then it was the appreciation, yeah. It was it was to look expensive, whereas I think in in Melbourne we don't do luxury to look expensive in that way.
Bree:That's very understated, yeah.
Speaker 01:But it was suiting the client, it was suiting the architecture, it was suiting the context. So you do understand design in a different way, and the way that the other designers worked and the decorators worked was so inspiring as well. The most layered and beautiful materials, fabric boards, just the way they did things, it was so cool. So yeah, you you do learn more about yourself and just going over there. I mean, it was basically just an extended shopping trip, if I'm honest. But I was just like going to like, you know, Liberty, Selfridges, like Selfridges, um, you know, wandering through Harrods just for fun. And I mean, I love all the history stuff. So you know me, there is not a park I can walk past. We have to stop and read it. Oh my god, look, there's a bit of the Roman wall. Oh my god, who cares? Here she goes again. It's so interesting. I love all that stuff.
Bree:I actually love it too. And I love that you know it. So I'm like just like old and just along for the wrong end when you go, oh blah, blah, blah. Oh, that's really interesting. But I don't retain it very well. I'm I'm curious and interested about it, but I would never like be able to remember it to tell someone else, whereas you actually remember some of it, not that take it in.
Speaker 01:Yeah, I just love all that stuff. Yeah, it's just the the layers, the history, and and also, you know, we're talking about film before. I'm like, oh, this looks like Mary Poppin Street. Is this where Paddington Benn lived? And like, oh like Notting Hill, like so many references, and you're like, you're in it. It's just kind of cool too.
Bree:Yeah, yeah. No, definitely. I loved London, but I've only been that once. But I'll hopefully go again next year, I think, for just even for a couple of days again.
Speaker 01:Yeah, it's hard not to.
Bree:Especially it's really hard to it's really easy to get there now. Well, not easy, but there are flights where you go straight to London now.
Speaker 01:So well, yeah, that's a burnt. London to Paris on the Euros Eurostar. Is that what it's called? Yeah, it's so easy.
Bree:Yeah, yeah. So is there is there somewhere else you'd go and live now and work out of in a design capacity?
Speaker 01:Oh um, I I don't know. Like, I wouldn't mind like living somewhere in Asia. That could be pretty cool. Um, yeah, I would say Hong Kong. I love Singapore. Yeah, I would say Hong Kong because that's where Phil's parents are from. My husband's parents and family is from Hong Kong, and we've been there like a bunch of times, and I've actually visited my family when they lived in Hong Kong too, so that was different, but I don't know what the climate is like there at the moment, but I feel like that could be really exciting to live somewhere in Asia. I don't know.
Bree:You don't mean like the weather when you say that.
Speaker 01:No, the pol the political climate, yeah. Yeah, exactly. The climate is probably not for me though, it's too humid.
Bree:I can't, I just cannot. Oh, me too. My hair was like, I don't know, three times the whole gym over there, which I guess can be good.
Speaker 01:And it's it's it's absolutely interesting because um, before I went to London, I was chatting to this gorgeous architect and she was from Hong Kong, and I was saying, Oh, it's so great to work in Hong Kong. She's like, Yeah, it's really, really great. They work really, really hard there. And I was like, Yeah, nah, I don't want to work there anymore. Oh, that changed.
Lauren:Yeah, like they're maniacs, and she was a maniac the way she worked as well. So I was like, you nah.
Bree:Australia's, I mean, we it's funny how Australians have this um, I guess, reputation of being kind of laid back and lazy. But I reckon we work really long hours and crap. Like Europeans know how to they get shit done generally, they work hard enough, but they know how to actually have a life. Yes. Whereas I feel like we dedicate too much to work, like it's not your life. I mean, uh it's harder when you're, I think, a creative and it is kind of our life, but it is still a the job you have to, you know, make money should be about making money to live a life, not just getting further and further in work. I don't know. It's really I find that really interesting.
Speaker 01:We have a very kind of American um it's a little bit of both, and even in in London as well. I found sometimes the work ethic wasn't as strong as what I'd experienced in Australia.
Lauren:Really? There you go. Interesting.
Speaker 01:But it's yeah, very international as well. There were people from all around the world there, so it's hard to say that's that's so true.
Bree:I think that's the thing about I guess any of those cities, it would be probably similar in um Hong Kong. I know when I was in Singapore, the amount of like expats that are there is is huge. So very international places. So you I guess you get that mix of different attitudes and the way people work too. Um, which I guess it uh comes to a different question, which is inspiration. Um, you know, we have talked about travel and how that definitely creates inspiration for us in our work. Is there something like what's your if you're trying to work on something and you just can't, it's just nothing happening. What do you do? Like, how do you, I don't know, inspire yourself?
Speaker 01:I think that with creative, sometimes we think, oh, okay, well, I know I do. I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna do that. I'm just gonna do this other thing first and that other thing and that other thing, and then I'll feel creative. Do you know what I mean? Yes.
Bree:Oh, no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 01:And it's stupid because you have to sit there, you have to be creative on demand, and it doesn't, it doesn't work like that. You can't wait and for the environment to be right. So I try to do something creative every day. But you know, when I was thinking about these questions and I I remembered that when I was studying at RMIT, I took an opportunity to go over to the US with my friend Brianie and my sister, and it was actually an art sort of tour. Um, we happened to go over there, and the Museum of Modern Art was running an exhibition called the Unprivate House, and it's always stayed with me because it was such a different way of looking at architecture and interiors. Like uh, I remember there was this uh this house in Japan. Instead of a regular facade, it was like a big curtain. It was by Shigeru Ban, I think. Anyway, all those kind of things, and it's like looking. I've got the book that I bought at the exhibition all those years ago. I think it was 1999. That makes me sound so old because I bet you there's people listening that were not even born then.
Bree:Oh no, that's scary. I hate it when it happens when you start the body. I know, I know you see people's birthday and go, what? There were people born after the 90s. Like what?
Speaker 01:But it's like, you know, picking up some books and I went through some magazines the other day and I went through Nicole's book, Nicole England's book that she gave us, which is beautiful. So I have to say obviously a lot of time online scrolling, but then sometimes I'm like, oh my god, like I'll just sit on my bed surrounded by magazines, taking photos of it on my phone because I want to see if I can find the digital, but sometimes they don't exist. So it's really cool. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, but it's it's imagery, but I also get a lot of inspiration from my clients. You know, I I'm not living in the space, I want it to be their sanctuary, you know. Um, I met up with this client yesterday. I got to see her in action just for a second because she had to take a call, a call, and she works really hard up in a bank. And I'm just like, you are a queen, you are amazing. Like, I want your home to be absolutely perfect, peaceful, calm because you run, you literally you run all day, and your world is so different to our world of like looking at tiles. Yeah, I was saying to Phil, you know, it was so cool seeing her taking a call. And I not that I was listening, but I was because I had no idea. Obviously, she works in a totally different no idea. Um, and uh Phil said, Oh, so good she went to talk to you again. Did she have to like kind of dumb it down to talk to you?
Lauren:She's not like that though, she's not like that. She don't make me feel like that.
Bree:Suddenly she's talking really slowly. So, Lauren, the way that I really want this room to feel like you know pretty colors.
Speaker 01:So I'm just so inspired by my clients. Like women like that, I just feel like they're just so amazing. Yes.
Bree:Um that beautiful satisfaction is probably, you know, when people ask you about design, that's one of the things, right? Is like if you get to create that space for your client, you had that moment where you're like, oh my god, she's absolutely amazing. Like we have this kind of love for them in a way, right? And we're like, we want their spaces to be so perfect, and like that's the satisfaction. So if you create that space that is in now kind of in your head because of, I don't know, the inspiration from her, you'll have this amazing kind of like, I don't know, I don't it's satisfaction. I can't think of the right words.
Speaker 01:It's fulfilling as well. Yeah, it's really fulfilling. And you know, I've got another client who is hilarious, and I don't know if I've told you guys on the podcast. Um, she has a really high pressure job where she runs her own business, her own law practice. She's a criminal defense lawyer, and so she talks to bad people all day. She wants her home to feel really calm. Anyway, I showed her a concept for the bedroom, and she's like, No, I don't like that. I was like, okay, cool. Great thing about working with lawyers is they're really great at communicating what they don't like, what they do like. She said that she wants her room. Yeah, very, very direct. Sometimes I'm like, whoa. She said to me she wanted her bedroom to feel like a warm vagina. Very weird. I was like, I I've got it. We're doing it.
Bree:So it's she could like it like being in the womb. That might have been a better way to put it. Sort of the same, but in a different way.
Speaker 01:She's just hysterical. So um we created this bedroom for her, and it's like this gorgeous wallpaper. It's like got a uh it's like a grass cloth and it's got an ombre with this soft pink going up to the natural colour. It's by Philip Jeffries, I think. And these gorgeous uh fabrics on the bedhead. It's calming. Her life is so busy, hectic. Here is this absolutely gorgeous bedroom. And just to feel like when she says that she was really happy with that, it made me feel yeah, absolutely fulfilled. I'm like, you are amazing. I don't know how you do your job. You deserve a beautiful space of rest, of restoration and recharging, I guess. Um, I hope that in our small ways interior designers, like we can do that for our clients. So I find them inspiring, especially that client. She's uh hilarious.
Bree:I'm trying not to get distracted by the many, many things that are going through my head that I could talk about to do with the warm vagina room. But we'll take that one offline, otherwise we might have to start changing to a different rating.
Speaker 01:I know when I was like describing the co the concept and stuff, I'm like warm and welcoming. Um I couldn't. I just couldn't.
Bree:Because okay, I'm just gonna say this one thing, we can cut it out of it, it's too much, but like I I'm thinking, okay, like so. For her, warm vagina is like cocoon, I'm assuming relaxing, cocooning, whatever. Does it mean if she has a a male guest in that room, they have like the opposite reaction because it feels like a warm vagina?
Speaker 01:I'll have to ask Elizabeth.
Bree:Yeah, let me know. Um, okay, anyway, so yeah, inspiration from clients is great. Sorry, I've got so sidetracked by the warm vagina that I don't even know what I'm talking about. Yeah. But um, and look, everyone knows you as a bit of a um boss lady, because you obviously run your own business, but have all of these amazing facets to it. I think that, you know, I have huge admiration for the way that you're able to, I guess, decide to do something and you get it done and you follow it all the way through. And you're very good at, I guess, coming up with new ways to do what you love, and one of it is teaching, I assume, given that you do a bit of that. Um, but there must be really hard parts to the fact that you also have many different facets to your business. So, what do you find the hardest? Like, what is it?
Speaker 01:Oh, thanks for the kind words, Bree. It was so nice. Um, I think I I think I have that thing called shiny object syndrome where I'm like, oh, that looks fun. Maybe I should try that. So yeah, you know, you're right. I'm like, oh, I'll start a sub stack on this and I'll start a sub stack on that. I'm like, okay, testing out ideas is one thing, but then like having too many plates spinning, I think that's something I I do struggle with a bit. And I'm like, which one should I lean into? But I think you know, yesterday uh last last episode when we interviewed when my I asked you the same question, and I think you just said straight away finances, which I mean it comes down to that as well. It's trying to figure out how you can do what you love, which is going to, you know, give you that revenue that you need to keep being able to do what you love.
Bree:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And you know, the fact is, I didn't study anything to do with finances. I don't um, but the thing I think in our corner, which is great, is the creativity. So I'm trying to think about creative ways to bring in revenue, which is I think thinking outside. Yeah, and I hate it when people say, Oh, interior designers aren't good at finances. I'm like, but we are creative and we can think of you know creative ways to sort of do that. Absolutely.
Bree:Yeah. We just look, I think we're just I don't think that we're not good at finances. I think we're just a bit disinterested in them in a way. And that's two different things, right? We could be good at them, and if we were also interested in them, we could be probably better than anything at them because what we are good at is solving puzzles and actually being organized when it comes to those sort of things, maybe not our personal life, which is me. But you know, like you I think we need to maybe reframe them. Exactly.
Speaker 01:And also for me, finding out like about my money mindset stuff and like what motivates me. Well, unfortunately, money in the bank doesn't motivate me.
Bree:Yeah, same. Even though I want the money there to do the things, well, that's the things. It's not my key motivation.
Speaker 01:It's the things if you said if you could reach this milestone and hit that, you know, revenue, because then you can buy furniture, lighting, yes, travel.
Bree:We need to work, we need to work on having that as the goal. But I think what happens with us is we that's not why we work. We do, we do uh coming back to, I guess, that whole mindset of you know, working to live, not living to work. We definitely have crossover, but I feel like we don't every day we're not going, I'm gonna I'm doing this because I need to pay this bill. Like we when we're in it and we really love what we're doing, we're not thinking about that at all. We're thinking about the project and the results of that. So it's really hard to connect it to the making of the money.
Speaker 01:So true. Yeah, yeah.
Bree:Yeah, I just want to think there's probably not genuine, genuinely designers who are genuinely just love design, think it's really hard. And even I reckon even if you spoke to the really, really successful ones, unless they have like something else going on that's kind of bigger than that, like a whole different platform and multi-points of like, you know, say media and TV show, whatever, you'd most likely find that they still don't actually make fortune. Like it's not the career you go into going, I'm gonna make a fortune being a designer. Like you're gonna work with people that have money. Yes. But you'll always probably be the one who doesn't have the things that you're giving, not giving, you're creating for other people. That's true.
Speaker 01:Most of the time. Um oh hang on, I had on your point then. Well, I think the thing with like the finances as well is that I'm always working on it. I'm always working on learning more. I don't think that it's something that people are just born with knowing it. Like you you have to learn it, but you have to have the interest in it too, as you said. So I I do take, you know, occasionally a course. I read books.
Bree:Well, you could you have got okay. I think I'm gonna interrupt you because you need to tell me a few of the books because you've recommended some to me that I really enjoyed. What was the first one? The badass one.
Speaker 01:How to be a badass at making money by Jen Sinchero. I love her too.
Bree:Listen to the audiobook because she's great too. So I I find that more engaging than I don't think I could ever sit and read a book like that. Like literally page by page, I'd get through a few pages and I'd probably fall asleep. Yeah, or I'd just go off and find the shiny object, like you said before. But I can listen to the audiobooks of those kind of um topics, particularly if it's the author and they have a bit of a passion and they've got a bit of a character. And she's she's like that.
Speaker 01:She tells stories, and I need stories, I need humour, I need those things. Um, so I I have to I have to seek that out. Um, I met with a a finance expert that helps interior designers the other week. Um, her name's Justine McLean. She's a great one as well. She's got a really great book. It's called, I think it's called Be a Money Magnet. Oh, yeah. She's great. So, you know, those are the things we do in the design society. And and um we brought her into our um mentor group, which is called the Conversation Circle. So, you know, we're all at different stages. We, you know, it might not mean much to you right now, but then in a year's time you might be like, God, I need that now. So um, yeah, it is a big part of our business because I can't do the fun things if we have no money coming in. Um, I can't pick up my kids from school and have that freedom in my day if we're not getting the revenue coming through. So it's um, yeah, it's it is a hard one because as you said, it's just not what I'm interested in, but I have to make myself interested in it.
Bree:Yeah, you do, absolutely. I feel like the money thing's probably a big pain point for a lot of creative people and interior designers. But I think if we can make it a little bit fun too, like you said, you know, if it's engaging, you take that stuff on and you can listen to it and learn. And, you know, it's the I think so. Money for me, I guess, if I have to simplify it, equals freedom. And not just freedom, like you said, the um flexibility of being able to be in your own business and pick up your kids and stuff. Like I probably that's one of the big pros for running your own business. But it's also freedom to choose the projects that you want to work on and have the confidence to do to say no to things, which is really hard to do when you when you become kind of a bit fear-based on money. If you kind of just trust that you're doing the right thing and saying yes to the right things, it's probably more likely that you're gonna be successful. Whereas if you're sort of just saying yes to everything because of the money, you're not leaving any space for the good things, like for the stuff you want to work on, right?
Speaker 01:True. So true. And I mean, having to say no to clients in a way is really, really tough. But the clients that you work with, they just shape your business so much. So, you know, sometimes I I think, well, you know what, I would love to help you. Maybe you don't have the budget or it's a location that's not convenient, and that's why I started doing the the consultations because I can help them in a a 90-minute consultation and they can get on their way. Yeah. Anyway, but it's figuring it all out, isn't it?
Bree:Yeah, exactly. Um, I guess because you know, you do do so many different, I guess, have so many different aspects of your business. Like, what is a what does a normal day look like for you? Oh do you have a normal day, or is every day, I mean mine is a bit like that too, but you would have like do you have to structure it so that you can kind of like leave room for the creativity and the business side of it? Like, do you have I do this on XXX day and then I do this on another day? I'm just I'm curious about how you think about that and kind of run your day.
Speaker 01:I'm not that person. I wish I was a bit more that person. Um, I I don't like being reactive to emails and stuff that come in because that pulls you away from doing that creative work. 100% um it's varied. I mean, we have you know meetings with clients or we'll meet at a showroom to talk about things. Every day does look a bit different, and then you know, sometimes on the weekend I'll be like, I'm gonna write something on my Substack. Like it's work, but I mean, we might be in the car visiting a friend and it's an hour, so I've got my laptop in the car. Like, you know, again, like, is it switching off?
Bree:It's like, well, no, but I enjoy doing that, so it's yeah, it's that whole um, oh, I should ask. I don't know whether you I've asked you or you've said it, but we used to ask um a lot about guests, and this is exactly the topic, is what it what are the hobbies? Because when you're creative, some of the stuff we do is actually still work. The stuff we find fun is still work-related or at least work adjacent. What do you what do you do then to for like fun? Like, what's your how do you switch off and actually not do a work-related thing?
Speaker 01:Well, last weekend I did something non-work related. And I was like, Oh, I think I get why people have hobbies. It was okay, it wasn't um Ikabana, the the Japanese flower arranging. Yeah, I love that. And the teacher, she's quite renowned in that space. My sister organized it with my mum as well. So the three of us had a personal class with her, and it was picking up a branch, looking at it, deciding which bits you're gonna snip and putting that one and grabbing another branch, grabbing a flower and looking at it. And it was that making a decision of where you're gonna snip the branch, how it's gonna be placed, and really being in that moment of doing something with your hands, looking at flowers, branches, noticing petals, noticing yeah, and it was like, oh, I could definite, I get that. I get how you could really go, like this lady, she was she's done all of the complete training, obviously, to become a teacher. And now she's a very experienced teacher. Like, I was like, how could you get addicted to flowers and stuff? But oh, it's that mindfulness of switching off and I get that, but that was one hour or two. The rest of the time, I I don't know if it's a hobby, but I I try to do reading of more fiction books and stuff. Yeah. Um, that uh sometimes I can get too much in the headspace of I'm gonna, you know, audio book about finance, podcast about you know, marketing and business, business, business. But sometimes a book like this morning, I finished that book that I mentioned with you the last time called Atmosphere. And I was like, I'm like, I had to go on a meeting at 10 o'clock. I was late because I was like, I'm not crying, but it's just like, oh my god, Phil, what happened? Oh my god, they get to live happily ever after. Oh, I shouldn't say that, giving it away. It was so good. You're not welcome at book club.
Bree:Do you know that'd be all right? Because we all we would we would all have read it.
Speaker 01:It is so it was so good. So that takes me out of um business stuff all the time. But yeah, I don't know. I don't really have a hobby. No, it's work, it's yeah.
Bree:I wanted you to go like when you said you did something different and you kind of understood um what how people do that. I wanted you to go, I went go-party. Like that would be good. Um, but I relate to the whole uh Ikibana um because I'm actually slightly upset. I think I probably could have been a florist. Like, I actually really love arranging flowers, and and that's kind of almost my approach to it without realizing that's what it is. Like if you know my styling work, when you see the flowers in it, that's all like I probably spend I don't I don't take like a ridiculous amount of time, but it's something there's something about creating that structure that's almost like creating an artwork. Anyway, we will talk about maybe we should talk to someone.
Speaker 01:I know it was yeah, very good. So I get hobbies, but I don't really have I I work, I think about work, I think about design all the time. Yeah, same because it's fun.
Bree:Same, same. It is fun. Well, I'm gonna wrap it up a little bit, but I think we'll do a couple of more personal questions. I um I want to know the dream client one because I think that's really interesting. So the whole dead or alive, or maybe choose one that's dead and one that's alive. I like that idea too. Do you know offhand?
Speaker 01:I love the idea of a musician as well, as you said. I would love to design Courtney Barnett's house because I just think she's such a cool person. Beautiful. Um and it would be just like filled with like timbers, it'd be like um vintage, like slouchy leather lounges, and it would be like wood panelling with like photos like signed by people, and it would just like have record players like going all the time and guitars hanging on the wall. Like, yeah, I think she seems like such a cool person. But then I would I I actually love designing spaces for non-creative people, so you know, there these women, as I said, that inspire me so much, they're high up in these corporate places, but we don't even know their names, like but they're like the true rock stars, they are just like coming up against so much. Uh they have to work so much harder to get where they are. And I just think they're amazing. And I think they deserve to have a space that just makes them feel like the queens that they are.
Bree:Yeah, yep. That's completely their own personal sanctions. They deserve it, they're so cool, and to kind of reflect the fact that they do work that hard too, right? Like that's that's part of not in a trophy way, but just in a this is I've achieved this and I can have a home like this, but it still being more about the connection to it, not the flashes. Exactly.
Speaker 01:That they're not there to show off their home, they just want it to be functional, beautiful, all of those things. And they just work so hard, the only woman in the room a lot of the time. And I just think that's pretty cool.
Bree:Um, and I guess that sort of leads into because I quite like this question, what you want people to feel when they walk into a space that you've designed.
Speaker 01:I want them to feel themselves. I don't want them to feel like they have to be something else, they have to be quiet, they have to be reserved, they have to be, I want people to feel like they can just relax and sit, sit, sit back in the sofa, like just relax, talk. Um, don't don't feel like you can't put your coffee table, your coffee on the coffee table. Like for me, that's not the kind of space that I enjoy. Yeah. Um, yeah, and I think I I can't remember if I told you, but uh it's really interesting hearing what the girls, when they have their little play dates, what they say about our house. And one of them was, your house has everything. And I was like, I love that. I love that you think our house has everything because it's got all the toys, it's got the trampoline. Yeah, like just spend time inside, don't feel like, oh, I can't sit down. Like, and then I did have a I did have one which kind of is the opposite of this a little bit. Indy had a friend over the other day, and Indy said, Oh yeah, she said that our house looks like from Pinterest. That's kind of not really the so many ways, right? But she she noticed that I I do place an importance on aesthetics, uh, which is true, it's a big part of what we do.
Bree:But I hope that she still felt relaxed to I mean Yeah, and not that it was like, yeah, because I think if we I think in my head, if you say a Pinterest house, I probably think it's more about like fleeting trends or something, like you know, whereas I think yeah, she's sort of going, Oh, it's so it's it's pinable, which is a different thing.
Speaker 01:Yeah, pinable's good, I think. So I'm I'm really hanging by the words of 11-year-olds right now.
Bree:Well, I don't know. That's like um, yeah, that's that's always a that's always a good thing to be relying on. The the youth of today, we need to be paying attention to what's important because it's the thing.
Speaker 01:And they'll tell you what they really think as well.
Bree:Yeah, that's so true. Oh gosh, yes, they absolutely will. Um, well, we might finish on the last question, which I think is a good one too, which is because I'm really curious about this actually. What is like your next big thing? Like, what is the I guess the dream? What's the thing that's like you might at that moment go, I've achieved everything now. Even though then you'll move on to something else.
Speaker 01:Um, there's so many things. I guess like in life, I I've I've always wanted to have like a little cabin by a lake somewhere, and that could be like a little creative space. Yeah, and I can just like have all my books, magazines, and just tinker away in there. That sounds like a big, like amazing dream. But then it's just the house that we're living in. I want to buy it. Like we have to, we have to have it. It's just I know you want to just has to happen.
Bree:Let's put that out there. I think that. And if it's not that exact one, there's there's a house for you that's got the same personality and vibe. But yeah, I mean, you're very settled in there. I think they might actually have to like bring in the you know, task force to get you out.
Speaker 01:It's it's gonna be embarrassing. I'm chaining yourselves to the balustrade. It's gonna happen. Um, but yeah, and I guess um, you know, work-wise, you know, I have big goals for the design society. I want to do more in-person events because, yeah, as I sort of said at the beginning, it's just so great to have everyone in a room together and connect the industry and really elevate interior design, you know, in the small way that I can do it because I really believe in the what the work we do is important. And I feel like, you know, interior design, it is unregulated. Anyone could wake up tomorrow and say they're an interior designer, which is you know, it happens. But if if you want to do that, let me give you some skills so at least that you can go out there and present our industry in the best way that you can. Yeah.
Bree:So that's a really good point.
Speaker 01:Yeah, yeah. I feel like, you know, clients, if they're paying money for an interior design service, they deserve to have a really high quality service because it represents all of us. So I hope that you know we can keep building up the design society. And I want to take on, you know, a nice handful of clients a year. But yeah, I mean, it's such a good question.
Bree:What about what about writing? I mean, you're you're an author as well, and you you now have books to your name. Would you are you is there like a dream? I guess you know, you've um the books that you've created, uh like a series, but is there a topic in your mind where you're like, this is actually what I really want to do in terms of like a book?
Speaker 01:Oh well, I uh one of my goals is to have an international book launch. That would be amazing.
Bree:Yes, we need to do that.
Speaker 01:I would like to see and you take on this Scandinavian aesthetic because I think you know, instantly your mind just goes to a black and white space and it's just not that. So I would like to explore that as a topic. There's so many. I have so many topics I want to write about. And Tibbs and Hudson are so amazing. You know, I've had to say I I can't commit to writing another book right now because I have to do other things as well. Um, but they're just in the wing. They're like, when when you're ready, like I mean, what I'm I'm like stupid because I need to be like, okay, let's make this happen. But I know what the you're not spending. I feel stupid because it's such a big opportunity that I've just got sitting there to write more books.
Bree:And I feel like Yeah, but I think it's the same thing as what you just said though, where um I guess writing a book is when it becomes a job where it's like, okay, I've got this option, I have to sit and write a book. It's not the same thing, and you might not create something that's as special. So if it's not the right time, I think it's not the right time.
Speaker 01:Yeah, I think it's fun. So it's just yeah, um can't kick yourself up that way. I think it's just uh yeah, finding the right time and being able to have that space to commit and that time to commit. And also, I'm so glad I wrote my books before Chat GPT because now I'm like, oh, would I be tempted to run all of it through Chat GPT? Because I, you know, we're all using it every day.
Bree:Yeah.
Speaker 01:So it's funny, isn't it?
Bree:I mean, that's a whole nother conversation, but I think it's the way you use it. I think that having used it now, I think for me, I love the fact that I've got someone to talk to. I know, I know. I mean, obviously we all we have each other and there's other people we can do that, but just in your day-to-day stuff, I had just kind of conversations with it about like, what do you think about this? And like I hardly agree. Like sometimes like, oh, I don't know about that. I think the problem is that there are people literally doing the whole like drop something in there or ask it to write something and it writes it and then just going, okay, and then taking that, and then you can tell that it becomes quite generic. And I can't imagine you, I can't imagine you doing that, but I totally get it.
Speaker 01:Well, I mean, as a as I was saying about the design society, like how is that going to change and evolve when you know, at that point in time when I sort of launched it during COVID, there wasn't a resource where you could say, write me an interior design contract, write me the design process, or I've got this client problem, how can I solve it? But um, and it was all of that content that I wrote is from my experience, from books I've read, from our friend Jen Sinchero, how to be a badass, like a credit, obviously credit all those people. Um, but now it's shifting. So that's why I'm thinking, oh, am I doing more events, bringing people together in person?
Bree:Because it is different, right? You can't get the same thing. Um, you can obviously there's the opportunity to ask an AI bot questions. The other thing that I find though is that they're often wrong. Like we think that there's we think AI is this like, oh, well, they just know all this stuff. Many, many times I've called them out on things and gone, I don't think that sounds right. And then I go, Oh, Bree, oh Bree, you are correct. Like, like it's not about some, you know, high, like, I don't, I think that that um, you know, formula you've done there is incorrect, but like it's just like maybe some life stuff or whatever. And I'm like, I don't know about that. And then so we can't, we've got to be careful to not kind of fall into that hole of thinking that that's a solution. And I do think also you become very it will it will become an echo chamber for you unless you tell it not to be. It will feed back to you, um, like how good you are, even it'll start going, oh, you're right, or you know, I love the way you've said that. Like, so it's you've got to be careful that you are still communicating and having conversations with real people that are doing real things. True.
Speaker 01:And I think you know, with the design society, when you get a group of designers together, you can share those stories about when I had a client and I that happened to me, I did this, and then what happened was that. So, I mean, and in person is great, but also, you know, online. We're catching up. We just caught up this morning on on our Zoom, and they were just saying how great it's been to meet each other, you know, South Australia, New Zealand, Queensland, all around. And you do get a connection. I mean, we're so used to it now. You do feel that connection when you just shoot in the breeze together. You have your your chats and everything as well. So, yeah, it is an interesting time.
Bree:Yeah, it is. Watch this space about all of that stuff, I think. But the evolution of, but I think you're right. I think um the future is still people. I think there's obviously lots of things to overcome and so much to learn from AI and and creating great tools with it. But I think we're just in those very initial stages where we think it's going to solve all the problems, but we're still humans that need humans. Like, I don't know, I believe that.
Speaker 01:I love that. I agree.
Bree:Well, I think we can probably wrap it up, and I do feel like I've learnt more about you. And I'm sure I will still continue to learn more about you. But um, it's been really nice sharing that with everyone.
Speaker 01:Thanks, Bree. Lovely to chat. And uh bye. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create, and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present, and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.