Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
Art in Residence: Finding Life in the Objects We Live With
Ever wonder what breathes life into the most stunning architectural spaces? Nicole England knows the secret—it's not just about the walls and windows, but the personality that fills them.
As one of Australia's leading architectural photographers, Nicole has developed a distinctive eye for capturing not just the physical beauty of spaces, but their emotional resonance. Her work has graced the pages of Architectural Digest, Vogue, and Wallpaper, but it's her book series that truly showcases her unique approach. Starting with her bestselling Resident Dog books, Nicole discovered that dogs were the perfect narrative device to access extraordinary homes while adding warmth and spontaneity to architectural photography.
In this conversation, Nicole reveals how the concept for Resident Dog emerged from a simple question about her "perfect shoot day"—beautiful homes, ocean views, dogs running around, and good food shared during breaks. What began as a personal vision evolved into an international success, opening doors to architectural treasures from Kelly Wearstler's Los Angeles home to Luis Barragán's Mexican masterpieces.
Nicole's newest book, Art in Residence, explores another dimension of what makes spaces come alive—the personal art collections and treasured objects that reveal the souls of their owners. "A home really isn't a home unless it's filled with people's personal objects," she explains, whether those are million-dollar paintings or stones collected from a beach walk. Through intimate vignettes rather than just wide shots, Nicole captures the feeling of spaces in ways that traditional architectural photography often misses.
What's particularly fascinating is Nicole's creative journey—from studying fine art photography to initially pursuing fashion work before finding her true calling in architecture. Her patient, considered approach stems from her film photography background, where each shot required careful deliberation. This mindfulness shines through in her work, which feels both artistically composed and authentically lived-in.
Whether you're passionate about design, photography, or simply curious about what makes spaces feel like home, Nicole's insights will transform how you see the places around you. Listen in and discover why the most compelling architecture isn't just about perfect structure, but the life that happens within it.
Please do visit her socials to see her incredible work & her latest book Art in Residence.
https://nicoleengland.com & @nicoleengland
Art in Residence Book & Resident Dog Series
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We're joined by someone whose work we've admired for years, a photographer who has the ability to capture not just beautiful interiors but the mood, materiality and emotion within them. Nicole England is one of Australia's leading architectural and interiors photographers. Her images have graced the pages of Architectural Digest, vogue, living Wallpaper and beyond, and she's collaborated with some of the most respected architects and designers, both in Australia and internationally. You may know her from her best-selling resident dog books, which offer a playful yet emotive take on architectural photography, or her newest release, art in Residence, a stunning visual journey through 22 homes where art and personal objects bring the architecture to life. From photographing dogs in design forward homes to documenting deeply personal art collections across the globe, nicole's lens always tells a bigger story.
Speaker 1:We're so looking forward to hearing more about Nicole's work, her creative evolution and the role of photography in shaping how we see and feel design, as well as her creative process and the stories behind her beautiful new book. Welcome, nicole, thank you. Thanks for having me. Of course, I'm not sure if you and Lauren have met before, but we know each other more, probably socially than anything else, although we've probably met before that but we didn't really know each other well.
Speaker 1:but I guess we've seen each other a little bit more since we're in the same social circles in the industry.
Speaker 1:So, it's kind of nice to have a proper discussion with you about your work. Yes, but have you met before lauren? Just admired from afar. Like your work, your books are just so impressive, um, and I think what stands out for me obviously is the resident dog book, um, which I have a copy of. But, um, you know, the access to the homes of the likes of Kelly Wurstler and everything. It's just like so impressive. So it's really cool to meet you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:I think it's amazing actually, the whole the dog, the dogs and beautiful homes is such a. It's interesting that people that you can almost have access into people's homes that you would never normally have access to because you know they're very private or they don't want to talk to you or they've had it photographed before, but then as soon as you introduce their dog and they, they feel that their dog will be the star of the home. They, the doors are opened and they're welcoming you. So it's a great concept. You, you know.
Speaker 1:That makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly you know?
Speaker 1:I mean we might as well jump onto that and come back to some other points, but I was going to say so. Was that the whole ploy behind the idea? Oh, how do we get our foot in the door while everyone loves their pets?
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, I mean, I think overall it's just sort of. I think I mean, everyone's interested in seeing amazing houses, including me going and sneaking inside beautiful homes but I think there's just something about being introduced to these homes through the dog. The dog that's just kind of hanging out lying in the sun, you know, running around chasing birds or that kind of thing. It just there's. I think, you know, originally, when the idea came about, it was kind of you know what is it that I love about beautiful homes? So, you know, when I kind of nutted it down as well about you know what is it like to shoot these beautiful homes as well, and what is it that I love the most, it kind of came down to almost a lifestyle, or or you know, what do I want to do with, not so much my professional life, but where do I want to be?
Speaker 2:you know, and so it's kind of you know, I want to be in these beautiful homes and I want the weather to be beautiful and I want there to be an ocean and I want there to be a dog running around and I want us to sit and eat some yummy food halfway through the shoot and all that kind of stuff. So that's really when that's kind of like, okay, well, this is kind of an interesting concept to try and, you know, pull all those sort of things together through the eyes of the dog. And yeah, I had no idea it would be so successful. People love it. People still talk about it now, and it's been a few years since the book came out. People still send me photos of their dogs and their homes as well, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really cute. I love that. You should probably have a little blog going as well, just for you to post other people's pics. Oh yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:I know so many dogs around these days too, you know, it feels like every second person has a dog or more or more dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everyone, it's evening out More.
Speaker 2:Or more dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's evening out. The average is higher.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, they're like little humans now. They're all dressed up in little jumpers and they have their little beds and their organic food. Oh, they're way spoiled. I want to be a dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, or just live the dog's life, potentially.
Speaker 2:Yeah definitely.
Speaker 1:Some of those dogs live in pretty stunning surrounds. They don't know how lucky they are.
Speaker 2:I know they don't. And I think some of the nicest ones, which you know, the Kelly Wessler one that you brought up, which was on the cover of the second book, I mean, he was Willie Willie Wessler, he was a rescue dog, you know. So, really, really, it was rags to riches kind of story. And God, such a beautiful, beautiful dog, happy little guy, just so happy to be in the photo, just would do you know. It's like do you want to come over here? He's like sure you know you want to come over here. Sure you know. Do you want a little belly rub?
Speaker 1:Sure you know, very, very gorgeous but sure, you know, very, very gorgeous. So. So the idea of the book came about because you were like I want to see gorgeous spaces and I want to also enjoy the process of shooting these houses. Like I love the way that you were saying like to have a break in the middle of the day and have lunch and actually be in these amazing surrounds. Like I think that's like a really like a beautiful idea to kind of, you know, almost set that intention. Well, how do I want to live my life?
Speaker 2:how can I create a project?
Speaker 1:that, and then what has happened is it's such a successful book, right? Yeah, yeah, and it's, and I think it was.
Speaker 2:It was exactly that, and it was actually a mentor of mine actually asking me. She said you know, describe your perfect shoot day, what does your perfect shoot day look like? And so she sort of put me on the spot and I was like, oh, what does it look like? And, you know, quickly went through my head and um, and that was a description that kind of came out and um, and and then yeah, and she was like what's with the dog?
Speaker 2:which is kind of interesting that that was the one thing that she picked out. She didn't pick out the um, you know, having a long lunch or the ocean view or anything like that. She's like why it was the dog and that story.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of where it came from. That's so interesting because I run a mentor group for interior designers and literally the question that I asked them yesterday was what one great thing would you dare to dream if you could not fail? And it's such a great thing to think about, you know, sort of that sort of really dream good limitations on yourself, fail, and it's such a great thing to think about you know, sort of that sort of really dream big, Don't put limitations on yourself, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's kind of scary sometimes to think about that. What could I do if I knew I would never fail? Like just that extreme. Yeah, it's really fun and it worked yeah exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like your dream, yeah, your dream job or your dream shoot or your dream design project or that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, none of us did it.
Speaker 2:And I was actually really surprised that it sort of took off. I mean, I knew it was a cute idea, but I think the first book was very much Australian-based, so it was all Australian designers and Australian architects, and when I started reaching out to people to ask them if they wanted to be a part of the book, I kind of went to a lot of my favorite architects to begin with and just said this is what I'm doing. You know, have you got a client or a project that you think would be suitable? And the people were just coming straight back going, my, I have a house with a dog. You know, the architects wanted their house and their dog and everyone was super, super excited about it and I sort of couldn't believe it.
Speaker 2:And so it kind of took off from there, and then the first book came out and then, yeah, the second one being more international, which was pretty fun to, you know, do mainly America, england, australia, and then I think I threw in a couple of houses in Mexico as well the Louis Barragan house, which had nine rescue dogs, I think, running around the property, which was pretty amazing, a property that was designed for horses. So you know, you've got these big, you know pink walls, and this dog was going crazy running around inside. So I couldn't yeah, I couldn't not miss that opportunity.
Speaker 1:Have you ever had some dogs that you're like oh my gosh, whose idea was this? This dog is just not behaving for my shot.
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:Don't work with children and animals. And you went. I'll challenge that Definitely.
Speaker 2:Definitely I was going to say, yeah, no go.
Speaker 1:Well, when you just described that Louis Barragan with that pink wool on the horses, it's such a powerful image because I think we could all well, I can picture that in my mind's eye, and so you might have had a preconceived idea of oh, wouldn't it be great if is that? How do you approach photography like that? Or do you have to just wait for those happy accidents to happen, those most spontaneous?
Speaker 2:I think it's a bit of both. I mean, at the end of the day, I always say to people that I'm an architectural photographer, not a dog photographer.
Speaker 2:So, I do go into these houses looking to photograph the house. It's an architecture book and the architecture is brought to life by the dogs. So I really don't want the dogs to be posing. I mean there's a couple of pose shots just because you know they're beautiful, but generally everything is like how are these dogs naturally using the space?
Speaker 2:So I try to ignore them a little bit because if you don't ignore them they will just be on edge, you know watching and kind of playing up to you and playing to the camera. But there's also something quite nice to kind of capture with that too, because that's the dog's personality. So you know, if the dog's kind of like running up and you know stealing your shoe and running off with it, then you kind of want to capture that playfulness as well. Shoe and running off with it, then you kind of want to capture that playfulness as well. But then if the dog's just lying and sleeping in the sun, it's like quick, you know, let's set up the camera and be really quiet not to disturb him, and set it up and capture him actually sleeping in the sun.
Speaker 1:So we definitely did kind of play it. It's a bit like wildlife photography then, isn't it? Yeah, in a sense, because that's what you have to do in that, in those senses, to try and capture them.
Speaker 2:You know the people that like lie in waiting for hours for that moment, right, hopefully you're not doing that, yeah, yeah, but still also very conscious of the fact that I'm photographing the space um the best I can. So I've already got a uh, an idea of how I want to photograph the space um, and so if the dog's a little bit kind of off to the side, then I'll definitely kind of bring him in a little bit, push him in sometimes, literally push him, pull him a little bit. You know, and dogs are okay with that. That's the funny thing. They're kind of like okay, yep, you know, they roll over a little bit. Yeah, that's a fun project. And you know I've probably said this a million times before that I remember the first couple of shoots I did. I would come home and I'd be like, why is my face so sore? Like you know, it felt so my cheeks felt really sore from just laughing all day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a nice feeling, isn't it? Yeah, that's a sign of a great day at work.
Speaker 2:Isn't it? Yeah, so I guess that's kind of you know. I mean, after two books with Resident Dog, I guess I was kind of like, okay, what's next?
Speaker 2:You know and I'm going to keep doing Resident Dog till the cows come home. But I thought, yeah, it's time to sort of extend on the basic theme of it, which is still architecture and still beautiful, beautiful homes. But you know how else are they brought to life and how else you know what else brings the personality and the joy and the warmth and the soul to the homes? And you know, the first topic that came to mind for me was art and objects, because I feel like there's, you know, a home really isn't a home unless it's filled with people's personal objects, which could be million-dollar paintings, but it could also be sticks and stones found at the beach, or your child's drawing on the wall, or, you know, your grandfather's old chair or a book or that kind of thing. These are all the things that add these kind of layers of personality and soul. So that's how the next book came about.
Speaker 1:No Dogs. I sort of wondered did you consider at any time calling it resident art?
Speaker 2:Yes, I did.
Speaker 1:Because it's sort of it is a continued, like you just said. Like I mean, it's always a curiosity how you decide what that next book is going to be about, but you were trying to kind of keep that same idea right of the things that bring a home to life.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, definitely, definitely. And so, yeah, resident Art was, I think, the original name, and then I don't know, there's sort of I felt like maybe there was something a little bit clanky about it or and that's I mean, art and residence is kind of it's still taking in the words, but just kind of changing it around a little bit, and it's also a take on artists and residents, which is, you know, about the people within the space. So it kind of felt a little bit more I wouldn't say poetic, but just a little bit more interesting.
Speaker 1:I think you can say poetic. Yeah, I understand that. You know it's interesting what you're saying and I couldn't agree more about those things that you mentioned of what makes a house a home, but I feel like what we often see in photography is they're the very things that are taken out of a shot. Have you ever found that as well? Absolutely, it's a fine line.
Speaker 2:I guess it is a fine line. I think I would always take personal photos out of a shot, you know if it's a family photo or the Christmas lunch or that kind of thing, or the kids, you know, in a photo frame beside the bed. I kind of feel like that's a little bit too personal yeah um, and but you know the but, yeah, the, the art and the objects I think are just they're different, because I mean it's definitely not about I mean it is about decoration.
Speaker 2:I think that that's one thing, but um, so much more than just decoration um and because it's definitely it's like a little insight into, into who these people are, which I also find kind of interesting too, because I remember the publishers saying that they wanted to have portraits of the people that lived in all of these homes, in each, in each story, and I kind of was like well, kind of feel like the art is the portrait in a way, because you do get this little insight into who they are, you don't have to be.
Speaker 1:That literal right that this is their representation, this is the telling of their story, is through those pieces and that's the whole point of the book in a way. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:I think you can tell a lot about somebody by what they, what they wear, what they read, you know. Even going into people's homes and seeing the books on their shelves you kind of go okay, you can get a really good idea of who they are, or the lack of books, yeah, or the people I'm suspicious of. Not judging.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm judging, yeah, so it's yeah.
Speaker 2:Try not to judge the people with that dog.
Speaker 1:Sorry, because I get that. That's not everyone's thing.
Speaker 2:People without books. Cats, though, definitely judge them.
Speaker 1:I have a bit of a soft spot. I'm a dog person but I have a soft spot for kinks because we grew up with probably every known pet in the universe at some point. That's what my childhood was like I would never had a snake. Never had a snake or a spider. That's because my mother's petrified of snakes and I am petrified of spiders, or used to be.
Speaker 2:Maybe you should have had a snake and a spider as your pet then.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe, maybe. I admire snakes and spiders now, though, I find them really interesting and curious. I'm not as scared as I would have been when I was younger, but my sister loves her cats and I was babysitting last night, and she has a new kitten called George, little black kitten, and he is hilarious. I just was entertained the whole time. I was just sitting on the couch, I didn't need to watch anything, because he's just one of those super active, like it's like parkour around the room, and then I was like George, where are you? And then he'd be like right next to me with his face like hi.
Speaker 1:Hi, there Just the personality was, so I think they can be cool. I'm not a big fan of all the hair. What about I've got one for you, nicole? What about resident guinea pigs?
Speaker 2:Oh yes.
Speaker 1:That's your thing.
Speaker 2:My guinea pigs are so cute they are very cute I love guinea pigs, though, too.
Speaker 1:I think they're gorgeous.
Speaker 2:They're such cute little critters, Animals, full stop. One of the people, actually one of the women who's in Art in Residence is a woman called Michelle Okedona and she has this amazing, amazing house in New York Not house, it's a loft. It's one of the original Soho lofts and I saw her online and I saw her doing an interview online and I just loved her and it was basically a working. It was her studio as well as her home. I also read somewhere that her studio was the inspiration behind the set for the movie Ghost.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore Is iconic.
Speaker 2:We just watched that the other week that movie.
Speaker 1:It's so awesome that apartment.
Speaker 2:Isn't it? Yeah, patrick Swayze too. Oh, he's gorgeous. Those big windows, windows, this giant window, and the columns, the fluted sort of columns are still yeah, yeah, it's amazing so I saw that when I was working on resident dog, and so I sent her an email saying love you home. This is a book I'm working on. Don't suppose you have a dog. Uh, she responded straight away saying I'm sorry, I don't have a dog. I used to have free flying birds, but now I just have fish and I just loved her from that moment.
Speaker 1:I just loved her.
Speaker 2:Yes. So when this my second, this art in residence book came up and I thought I'm going to contact her again, so I contacted her again. So remember me, you know I still love your house and I would love to come and photograph it for this new book. And she said, yes, I went there and photographed it so was it everything you thought it would be?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, everything. I thought it would be including her as well. I think I arrived at the time specified. Um, I think your husband came to the door and michelle came, like sort of floating down the stairs. She's in her 80s now. I think she came floating down the stairs. She's in her 80s now. I think she came floating down the stairs in this long black silk dressing gown. She came down she's like you know, hi and make yourself at home and just going to get dressed and have a cup of tea, and yeah, and then she just worked. She worked for the. She worked like a yeah, just nonstop for the entire day while I just kind of potted around and photographed this place.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's magic and yeah, it's very beautiful. Oh, do you ever sort of pinch yourself and think, oh, my God, this is cool? Yes, definitely, oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2:It almost feels sometimes when I look through the book, it almost feels like a diary in a way, to you know the travels and the people that I met in the homes I got to experience and that kind of thing. So when I look through each home and it just reminds me of all sorts of different things you know.
Speaker 1:I never really thought about that, but that would be so true. It's almost like when you look at it, it's like your personal experience. When we look at it, we just see the beauty of the images and what's within them. Yeah, that's funny, isn't it? It's like your own little journal.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's funny, isn't it? It's like your own little journal, yeah, and sometimes I think too, and I don't know how to do that. I mean, maybe I don't know how to do this, for you know any books coming up, but I think some of these stories are actually really nice to tell.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's obviously words in the book that talk about the art and the architecture and the collections and what inspired the collections and the interviews with the people, but sometimes it's those little, I don't know the. You know it's like the. I photographed that an apartment in Chicago who is the grandson of Mies van der Rohe, and that was an introduction through another house that was in resident doll. And so I went to this home, which is in the top floor of the Lake Shore Drive apartment building designed by Mies van der Rohe top floor and they live up there and you know I mean the house. The apartment is absolutely stunning, full of old, you know, mies, furniture.
Speaker 2:But also you know things that you know, like Mies' old ashtray was just sitting there on the table and his old cigar box and his old candelabras. Their dining table was his old desk. You know all these beautiful stories. And then, just kind of at the end of the day, they made Aperol Spritz and sitting up there drinking and chatting, and then the other grandson of the grandson you know turned up for a drink as well.
Speaker 2:And that's a beautiful experience of the people that live behind these kind of homes, and sometimes those stories are really nice to tell which are outside of a book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you almost need to do on the next one of a second photographer capturing kind of like a behind the scenes of the moments, or you document it. Let's sell it to Netflix. Yeah, basically it's a documentary of you doing the book, which actually could be. Look at all the stories you've got, just like little moments, like that would be so good to watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah Moments with these people. Yeah, nicole, we'll pitch it for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious to know was this creative path something you've always known, or has it sort of evolved over time?
Speaker 2:I've always loved books. I think. So doing my first book was pretty and you would know this too, because you've done books yourself was that you know there's something so special about having doing a book and there's something kind of quite old fashioned about it now as well. I mean, people are coming back to buying books, or maybe they buy more novels, or I think people still have coffee table books, definitely. But yeah, there's something kind of old fashioned about print and paper and the smell of it and the texture of it and the weight of it and holding it and that kind of thing. So I think when I did my first book, it was definitely something that I hadn't planned on, absolutely, but something that I was very excited about doing more of.
Speaker 2:So you know, I always say to people that making books is not going to make you your millions at all, but the process of it you know, whether it's a diary or whether it becomes your portfolio or whether it's something you know. Yeah, simple, it's a special process, but I mean photography. I mean I've always done photography for a long time and it's gone through ins and outs of different styles of photography, starting in fashion and advertising and taking a break and coming back to architecture. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't think you ever I didn't plan it.
Speaker 1:Oh, so can you tell us, have you only studied? Oh sorry, doll, no, that was what I was going to ask. Yeah, like, where did you sort of start out? You mentioned fashion and advertising. I did.
Speaker 2:Well, so I mean, I studied photography. I learned photography at school and then, when I finished school, I went on to university in Auckland in New Zealand, to Eaglem Art School, which is a fine art school part of the university, and it's a four-year degree where you specialise the first year you do a bit of the university and you know, it's a four-year degree where you specialize, uh, you, the first year you do a bit of everything that you specialize for three years, which I did with photography and I think you know, being a teenage girl, of course, I wanted to do fashion photography you know it's like, of course that's what I want to do.
Speaker 2:And then I started doing it and realized it's actually not what I want to do at all well, why was that? I don't know. I think it just wasn't my style, it wasn't my jam.
Speaker 1:It's quite different, isn't it? It's really fast, yeah. Whereas I feel like you're to me and I could be wrong you're a much sort of calmer considered person. I can't imagine you kind of like. I mean, it's not better or worse, it's just a very different pace, definitely, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep agree, and I definitely, yeah, yeah agree. And I think also too that um coming out of art school, they never really prepare you for a commercial uh, the commercial reality of working in the industry.
Speaker 2:They train you as an artist to think about things and to ponder and to write about it and that kind of stuff then you come out and then you know you do your first shoot, a fashion shoot, and by the time it gets published into a magazine it's changed and cropped and writing all over the top of it. You sort of. It was really quite disheartening and so I did give it up for a while. But my, my brother's an architect and and my mum's very into interiors and design, so I was kind of brought up in a household of um, always talking about architecture so, and growing up in houses that were quite architecturally designed as well. So I think you know, you know, after taking a bit of a break, yeah, and I sort of went back to photography and started back on, started with architecture and I was like, oh yeah, okay, this is more, this is more my speed, you know, for taking my time, considering each shot, you know, setting it up perfectly, that kind of thing, which is very different from fashion and advertising.
Speaker 1:And you sort of talked about that you are a very sort of patient. You wait for that moment, you wait for the right shot and that it's kind of film inspired what's sort of the process and where's that kind of come from? Did you find that was just naturally how you worked, or is it what you've evolved to thinking is the best way to capture?
Speaker 2:things. I think it's probably a bit of both in a way. I think definitely learning on film, because that's that's how old I am. Learning photography on film, uh, you do, you. You learn to be a lot more patient because you can't take a thousand photos.
Speaker 2:We can, but you don't and so you really do consider your shot and set it up quite perfectly. So I started with that and even when I took a break and came back to photography it was back back. It was in, it was. It was digital then. So so I had to kind of re. No, I mean, I kind of had to re-look at the way I did things. But in the end I still shoot in the same way as I shot before. So my camera does lots of things and there's a lot of buttons and so on that I probably don't really know how they work. But for me it's always about the actual what I capture and how I capture it. So if I spend a lot of time, you know, finding the perfect composition, setting up that composition, waiting for the right light and then taking the shot, that's kind of just the way I work and how I've evolved, but then I actually think that's my personality too.
Speaker 1:You must see that, Bree, though like working with different photographers in your styling work, like these different approaches, it's really interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you do. You always get a slightly different result depending on the team you can, and I find what's great about working with different, I guess, approaches is you just learn more. You just learn more the different people that you work with, and you might take something away from working with that person and think about it the next time you're working with someone else. So it just I don't know it helps build your career. I don't know qualities, the way you work.
Speaker 1:It's always good, I think, if you're working with the same person all the time, you'll get into maybe a great rhythm and you might produce great results, but it's always better to be challenged a little bit, I think, and and absolutely, you either go.
Speaker 2:No, I'm no, I still prefer the way I'm doing it, but at least you're thinking about it from a different perspective, absolutely and I think that goes with everyone that comes to a shoot as well like I feel I've actually learned a lot from stylists that I've worked with right from the back, in the beginning too, just the way that they because I think stylists are amazing and I can set up the shot and I'm like, yeah, this is the best composition for the walls and the ceiling and the windows you know that sort of thing and the furniture. And then a stylist comes in and just starts adding color and texture and shape and all that kind of stuff and it completely transforms it. But it makes me think, oh okay, next time I set up this composition, I can consider things like this, or I can place things in a different spot. That doesn't have to go there.
Speaker 2:I can put it there and it just feels a little bit odd or that kind of thing, and whether it's a stylist or whether it's working with a designer or an architect, you know everyone looking at things differently and having little suggestions as well. Yeah, it does kind of help you find your own style or your own way of doing things.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm not good at that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just good.
Speaker 1:Who are some of the stylists that you've worked with, or do you have a few that you sort of just really gel with nicely?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, probably the very first one that I worked with was a girl called Jane Reid, and we worked on a lot of different magazines right back at the beginning when I first started. Probably more recently, I work with Natalie James a lot. She's one of my favorites. She actually came on the Second Resident Dog book tour with me and she did the styling for the whole book, which is fun, great.
Speaker 1:You're being amazing.
Speaker 2:Swee Lim, who's more of an art consultant slash stylist as well.
Speaker 1:We know Swee. Swee is gorgeous. We love Swee.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and all three of those. You know. They have completely different styles as well, you know, and what they, how they see things. So, yeah, I love working with them.
Speaker 1:I find it so interesting sometimes just to watch the interaction because I find styling myself I just the pressure. It's so much harder than it looks. So I'll bring in like a stylist or maybe an assistant and it's like the equivalent of like finishing each other's sentences, like with the photographer and the stylist sort of creating this one image together. It's like they know that they need to move that one centimeter to the left, like they just kind of work together.
Speaker 2:It's really cool when you get that nice collaboration, yes, and it makes such a difference. And I think you know, as an interior designer, I think you know you see the space three dimensionally and so you can set up the space and put the vase there and the table there and everything like that. But then, as soon as the camera goes in front of that, it looks completely different because all of a sudden the couch is blocking the table and the vase is sitting in front of the light and and so on.
Speaker 1:So all those little adjustments it can make some spaces really hard to capture actually uh, they may be amazing in person.
Speaker 1:I've been in those spaces where you go this is amazing or even gone to do recce's for a shoot and walked in and gone. The house is fantastic but it's just not going to work because this is going to be shooting right out the window and this is this angle and even moving it around, like so it's funny. You can have an amazing house that just doesn't shoot well, it doesn't mean the house isn't fabulous. You'll just never see the most it can be on print.
Speaker 2:You know, like yeah, yeah sometimes it can be the opposite too.
Speaker 1:That's what I was gonna say I think it's more often the opposite, because you can make that happen. I mean, you can. You can almost style, know a pretty crappy space or shoot it a particular way, or you know whether it's the shadows that suddenly make it interesting, where there's hardly any architecture. You can bring that in. I think it's harder to probably try and make something work that you can't move walls, you know, true, true.
Speaker 2:Which kind of goes back to, you know, that original question that you had, lauren, about, you know, shooting the space how it is or kind of setting it up too much. And I kind of feel like there has to be that balance because and it depends on the home as well that balance of this is their home, this is how they have it, and whether an interior designer has come and helped them with it and then they've come in with their things. I mean, there's obvious things that you kind of want to remove, but generally speaking, and definitely with the book, you know where the houses have been particularly chosen for the architecture, the design, the furniture, the styling. You know being able to tick everything off, and this is how they live. So this is how people should see it this way, you know. So would you?
Speaker 1:move in this particular book the way it's shot. Are you really pretty much capturing what is there Like? Was there a lot of like, styling or moving of objects, or was it pretty much?
Speaker 2:this is how it's lived in yep very much how it's lived in.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's really nice, yeah, yeah I mean working with clients so often you know that what they're seeing is just not real yes, it's just not real, yeah so it's nice that there's that authenticity there, and I think that's with the resident dog books as well, that having the dog in there somehow it just makes it feel so much more lived in, and I really love spaces that capture that, that feeling of how somebody's actually living in the space, rather than a really overly styled space that you just, it's just too contrived, it's just not
Speaker 2:my favourite, but yep, it's just another way of, another way of doing it. That's all, definitely, and that's why I think sometimes also with when I even think, when I think about art and objects too, and how that kind of brings the space to life. So there's, you know, you could almost look at, um, I mean you could definitely look at furniture and books and that kind of thing, but sometimes it could, I mean it could be the architecture itself, you know, as it almost doesn't need anything that goes in it, because the architecture itself is the art, or the architecture is designed around a particular sculpture that sits in the middle.
Speaker 2:The architecture is, it's around it.
Speaker 2:Or, you know, it could literally be the light that comes through some beautiful images in here, where the lights is coming through and hitting the wall and that in itself becomes its own art you know, because the positioning of the home and the sun and the nature and the wall, and that in itself becomes its own art, you know, because the positioning of the home and the sun and the nature and the landscape and all that kind of thing. So yeah, it's kind of looking at not being too too exact on what art and objects has to be how do you find the properties?
Speaker 1:like you mentioned, it was a sometimes it's the people you know or how did you even source, like all those properties for the, I guess all three of the books?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mean I always start off with contacting the architects who I love the most. Yeah, you know the people whose projects I love the most, whether I have a relationship with them or not, it's always like. You know, I love your work and this is the book that I'm working on, and sometimes, if they don't know my work, I send them one of my last books so they can see how it will look and the type of photography and style, etc. So with the dogs it was kind of harder, because I was kind of saying you know, I love your architecture, but do you have a client with an amazing one of your homes that has a dog as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, minor detail yeah detail, yeah, but I also think I mean it's much easier now than probably how it used to be, because you know so much is already published. So it's very, I mean, which is good and bad in a way, because you know you can go on to all the big design and architecture awards all around the world to see what's been entered, what's been shortlisted what's been, et cetera. Again, you can't trust those photos, though.
Speaker 2:That that's actually what the house looks like so you have a completely different nature and art, you have to dig a little bit deeper just to make sure what you're getting.
Speaker 2:But then also at the same time I always kind of I know that I want to get a set amount of houses, but then I also I also leave it a bit open because I kind of go okay, you know, this book's going to have 20 houses, you know bros, chicken and vegetables, or something. She was telling me about a friend of hers who has this wonderful home which is the Hopkins House in London by Patty and Michael Hopkins, which is a very, very famous, famous house, and she said, oh, you should meet my friend Patty and I'm like. So she introduced me to Patty and I was able to photograph that house in the book which you know, if I had booked it too tightly and everything like. So she introduced me to patty and I was able to photograph that house of the book which, you know, if I had booked it too tightly and everything was all too perfect, I would have missed out on that.
Speaker 2:And and it happened a couple of times throughout the um, throughout the trip. It was like, oh, you should meet my friend so and so, and I was like, yes, there was one particular house that I kind of just trusted that I didn't, it hadn't been photographed before too, which is also really nice. And uh, the two guys said to me, oh, you should meet our friend, um, who has this house and um, so and I just trusted them that I knew that they had such good taste that it would be really, and it's been. It's probably one of my favorite houses in the book as well it's like a modernist house built into the rocks in upstate new york.
Speaker 1:So I feel, um, you're really good at manifesting, nicole, like because it's like, that's how the whole resident dog thing, that was kind of a manifestation like what's your perfect day, and then sort of built on that and just leaving those gaps for almost life to happen and for the right opportunities to present themselves. I actually really believe in that and it's just like, but you're just very casual about it and it kind of all just worked out.
Speaker 2:I know Like a really wild. Actually I hope that it does, yeah, like, but you're just very casual about it and it kind of all just worked out. I know. Yeah, cross my fingers, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1:I guess do you have a favorite. Do you what's your standout? I guess do you have a favorite because of the way it was shot, and do you have a favorite because of the experience of shooting?
Speaker 2:it. Oh, that's so hard. Um, I think that making you choose it is because I think that in in all the books too, that there's a lot of variety, which is kind of an interesting thing too, because I, you know, people were to say you know what's your style of, you know, what does your home look like and what do you want to live in. You know, I'd probably pretty much say you know, this is a particular, this is what my home looks like. But then when I'm choosing houses for the book, they're all wild and different, because I think, in a way, when I get to each house, I'm kind of like this house is so beautiful, you know the colors and the textures and the. You know, it's so crazy, or something. And then I walk away and I go to the next shoot and I'll be like this house, this house is my absolute favorite, you know, and for a completely different reason.
Speaker 1:So um so funny yeah, and there's something.
Speaker 2:I don't know whether it has something to do with just how it feels as well as well as how it looks.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, I think it always comes down to that in the end, doesn't it? I mean, I think it's funny. Even you know, having been in the business of shooting faces. You know because of that smoke and mirrors, that sometimes the best shots may look amazing, but actually the experience might not have been, the owners might have been awful, or it was just a really bad day or something went wrong, but actually the shots ended up beautiful. But I think when you fall in love with the space in real life, it has a lot to do with the way it feels, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah? Which has a lot to do with the way it feels, doesn't it? Yeah? Which has a lot to do with the people, the people that live there Also.
Speaker 1:It's a lot to do with. It could feel great, but capturing that in photography is so hard. How do you?
Speaker 2:do that. Yes, the feeling.
Speaker 1:The feeling, and I think that's where your work actually captures that feeling and it is that lived in it's exquisite architecture. But it does feel somewhat, I guess, a bit more relaxed and personal and it just feels so good so. I think that's so clever Are the feelings created because there's sort of a visual story to the shots.
Speaker 2:I think this book Art in Residence it feels a little bit different from maybe, uh, the photography.
Speaker 2:It feels a little bit different from the last two books and, and also probably a little bit different from my normal work photography as well.
Speaker 2:I decided to get a lot tighter in on these homes, so I think it was an. It was an interesting process to go through, took three books, because I remember the first one it was like I was just so excited about doing a book that I kind of went out and I'd book the house and I'd go and I'd photograph every single room, like I was going to a job, you know, the bathroom and the kitchen and the lounge room, the dining, and it's like I needed to capture the whole house, and not that maybe every image was used in the book, but I was kind of still thinking in the same way as I would for a job. The second book I was kind of coming in and out of that I knew that I needed to change my way of thinking, that I'm my client. I don't have a client, you know, or the publishers are probably my client, but I could actually I could do whatever.
Speaker 1:I wanted with this house.
Speaker 2:And then this third book. I really settled into it and I thought I actually don't need to shoot the whole house at all and I just captured these little moments and they're much, much tighter.
Speaker 2:I was probably also thinking a little bit about how the book is designed and how I wanted the images to be on a page and that, you know, a page is a, is a port, is a portrait size.
Speaker 2:So, unless so, a landscape photo would really have to run across two pages, or it's going to be half a page, you know, with white space or with another image on top of it, which then it becomes really busy.
Speaker 2:So so I sort of, so I ended up reducing the amount of images for each home, because the books only got so many pages and each story would only have so many pages, which means I could only really capture eight, you know, six to eight really excellent shots of this home. And how am I going to capture a home, you know, and how that essence of the home and the art and the objects and and how it feels, in such a small number of images? So so, yeah, so quite a lot of the houses you won't see a big living room shot in a bathroom, in a kitchen, you know all of that. It's just these little moments, there's little moments of where you think maybe you would search and look at something, or this little moment when you entered a home or you entered a room or that kind of thing. So it's kind of probably interesting for people that read it, because they probably have to think a little bit. They almost have to piece the house together themselves by all these little moments.
Speaker 1:I love doing that, though, and I think that those more tighter shots they do evoke more of the atmosphere and the feeling. Agree, I, I mean, I feel like that. They're my favorite kind of shots, but, um, you know, just talking about like social media and stuff, they never do that well, people want to see the whole thing, but, you know, it is that intimate experience of, yeah, holding the pages and looking at all the details. It's like such a different, such a more pleasant experience.
Speaker 2:Let's face it absolutely, and I think, even when I'm on a job with an architect and I'm documenting the space for them, um, we always go, okay, we need to get a whole shot of this, the space, and and everyone agrees and we take it and everyone's like, yep, that's great. But when you do get those moments, those little corners or those little vignettes, everyone goes oh, I love that one and I do for some reason, like the hands.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's what you said, lauren. Maybe it is a social media shift, I'm not sure, but I'm kind of putting it down to maybe more houses are being documented in that way of this is the house and this is the architecture, and even maybe magazines have kind of shifted to having a lot sort of wider shots and we do a lot less of what I call like little, you know, pickup shots of vignettes, and those to me are the best ones and I kind of miss that. You know, I was looking back at some old projects even and going, oh, these are such beautiful shots. I know they don't tell necessarily the story of the room, but they tell another story like a.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know. I do think they are probably a bit more emotive. Generally agree, totally agree, yeah, beautiful, yes, um. And actually we are fangirls of alicia as well, the, the writer that I believe she wrote the coffee copy. For which books, exactly?
Speaker 2:the latest one, the Ashton's Tense. Oh, the latest one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yep, yep, she's gorgeous.
Speaker 2:She is gorgeous. So clever yeah, so clever yeah, very, very clever I quite love.
Speaker 1:I like the. I do love the layout of the book and that sort of one page of here's the story and then you can kind of take the rest in or vice versa, rather than kind of like snippets on pages. I kind of like it and it's not like you know you need to sit there for hours. It's just a really great, like I don't know, quite emotive, strong little story that's told in that one page and she does such a beautiful job of that, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's kind of what the purpose of it was. I mean, because you know a lot of these homes, you know we could talk about the materials and the structure and the design and you know, and maybe it's already been photographed before, so you could probably find that information on an architectural website or that kind of thing. But for her to actually go in and interview every single homeowner and ask those really quite personal questions about what is it about this art and when did you buy it and why did you buy it and how does it make you feel, and you know all those sorts of things were kind of the things that you'd never read in an architecture article.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's never any room for that right. No, they're too busy writing about the space and they can't. They might ask those questions, but that's the stuff that kind of gets, maybe edited out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's probably what the of a book is in a way is to kind of, you know, to be able to get inside or take a different angle and tell a different story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, than what the magazine does, and apparently there's some people in the books who have over 300 artworks in their home. That's huge. I don't even know how you go about deciding which ones. Like I would forget, I often open a drawer and go oh I forgot I had that T-shirt and I only bought it like a month ago, so I have 300 pieces of art I'd be forever going wow, this one's amazing. Where did that come from? Again?
Speaker 2:Totally, totally Well, a lot of these people have their art documented. You know, they actually have full catalogues of their art.
Speaker 1:Well, if you have 300, you can't do that. And I guess a lot of it's investment too, and insurance and all of that yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's sort of stored off-site and then it can come in and out and they re-change it, change it around a lot and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, do those people do you think, have as much connection to all of those pieces as they would, say, someone who only has, like I don't know, five amazing pieces.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I do think so because they've gone and they've chosen it for a reason, I think, and I don't think I mean there's no one really in the book that was just a hardcore collector, for collecting purposes. Yeah, okay, they. They were choosing art based on personal. Yeah, and a lot of. I mean one one I can think of in particular, I'm not sure how many. He had a lot of art, but he needed to know the person. He needed to know the artist whose art was hanging on his wall.
Speaker 2:So, you know, quite often he would have multiple works by the same artist, because he started off loving the art, buying the art, meeting the artist, having dinner with the you know, and then all of a sudden they become mates and friends and so he could just talk about every single artist that was on his wall and he had that kind of whole salon hanging. There are lots and lots of different art on the wall, but he could talk about each one and how they've affected him and his life.
Speaker 1:And you know, yeah, a lot of them are mates, which is pretty nice. It's really cool. Yeah, I've only read a few of the pages because I haven't had the book long enough, but that's sort of making me want to really read every page now to just I love actually really have.
Speaker 1:you know, I mean both Lauren and I love art and we always talk about spend your money on art to have that personal connection with it, especially to know who the artist is and the why of how it was created, or and then also then put your layer of meaning on it. That's what, what's so beautiful about it, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you really do get that with Alicia's text. You really do kind of get this little insight into why the artist is in the home. And, yeah, and it's beautiful and a lot of it is sentimental, a lot of it's been brought down through the generations from great, great great grandfathers and these are modern, amazing architecture design homes and there's big old paintings. You know, on this white wall and you know there was one that was a Belgium house, a house in Antwerp, and the great great grandfather portrait was on this wall and every night they have a little daughter and every night they walk past the painting and say goodnight.
Speaker 1:Does its eyes move and follow her across the room?
Speaker 2:Yeah, does its eyes move and follow her across the room? Yeah, so how did this idea for this book come about? It was just probably this, like I said with them after resident dog it was. It was again just sort of looking at things, that, um, that that brought life and soul and personality into a home.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, art and art and objects was something that was kind of dear to my heart as well, you know, and I think it's interesting too, because I also think art and objects it takes time to collect as well, you know. I mean I remember when I first left home, I just was in an apartment with a table and a chair and a couch and you know, it's like that's all I had really. And then over time, you know, I now look at my walls and it's like, oh, you know that I got from that person and that I got from that person. You know that was each piece has kind of got some kind of story behind it. Or you know I found that on the side of the road, or my mum gave me that, or you know I stole that off an ex-boyfriend or you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:They all had that sort of some kind of story. So I know that's. I think that's kind of an yeah. So that's kind of where the idea for the book came from.
Speaker 1:And did you approach the publisher? Did you say, oh, I have a proposal, but how does all of that process work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean the original, the resident dog. Original was was that because it was very kind of new. It was like this is my, this is an idea. It was a very easy idea to pitch because you know it's incredible homes and the dogs that live there, very easy to understand and I have to say so, clever, like if you think about the venn diagram of like people that love dogs and then people that love architecture.
Speaker 1:There's like a big crossover, so they're like they must probably just two circles overlapped. There's like a tiny little, tiny little bit of nothing they must have been like this is brilliant, like push, go, go for your life, nicole and so then, then, then, the second book, you know.
Speaker 2:So that was pretty easy. And same with this one too.
Speaker 1:It was just, you know, it was just pitching the idea of just because it's easier, if you, I guess, if you've had success, the next one yeah, it's a bit easier to get over the line definitely, definitely, and you know it's and you've already got a relationship with them as well so you know you
Speaker 2:always discuss it together. In a way, it's like this is you know, I've got this idea, this idea and this idea you know what? And they've got, you know, publishers. Publishers are there to run a business too. They're there to sell books, so they need to make sure that, whatever idea that you come up with, they're like yep, that makes sense, people will like that, and they already know how I work too, and so they know that, yep, I can deliver, I can, you know, bring the images, I can make it happen, and it'll be all there on deadline and that kind of thing. So there's a bit of trust involved in that too?
Speaker 1:And what about working with Alicia? Was that a suggestion with the publisher, or have you known Alicia in her work? How does that sort of pairing happen? Yeah, so I pretty much recommend.
Speaker 2:I have recommended everyone. I kind of just want to work with my people in a way so cool, yeah, so I've worked with um, the same book. The first book designer was different, but then the second resident dog and art and residence was the same book designer who I love. Um, also melbourne based. Um. And then I've had different writers resident dog writers were slightly different from the art and residence one and I think that, yeah, I know alicia and I love, love Alicia and I know her work and I knew that she'd also started going out and started her own business too, so it was kind of perfect timing. So, um, yeah, and I loved her style. So, again, I guess what I do is I, she was in. I then tell the publishers that I've got this great writer yeah, here's some examples of her writing, and I don't think they even read it.
Speaker 2:They were like yep, great if great. If you're happy, we're happy. So it was sort of it's a good team.
Speaker 1:How long did it take to shoot? So, if you're because you were traveling overseas as well, did you just kind of like squish it all into a tight timeframe, or did you do it in bits and pieces over a longer period of time?
Speaker 2:I always wonder that, because obviously to travel from Australia unfortunately there's a bit of time in it, right, I know well, I ended up. What I ended up doing was I did the england, I went over to england and did the english and a few european houses together and then I came back to australia and then I went over to america. I came back and maybe for six weeks and I went to america and did the american houses and then came back and during that time I would just do the australian houses kind of in. So I think with Resident Dog I did it all in one go and it was a really.
Speaker 2:It went to England and then America and was really pretty full on and not so glamorous, you know, traveling for work so glamorous but it actually wasn't at all, because all you're doing is literally flying and picking up a car and checking into an airbnb or a hotel and then driving and got you know and you, and it's also this kind of I don't know whether I'm paranoid or there's a slight fear in the back of your mind the whole time that you're, you're on a schedule and if anything happens like you get sick or you, you know, you're um or something, you know anything happens like that, then the whole schedule, you know how does that? You know, yeah, and then you have to start back at square one and everything has to change and the flights have to change and the accommodation, and you have to fly back and you fly back again.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, that sounds horrible. You've kind of burst the bubble there, because I just imagined you're having chicken roast dinners with your, and then you're having Aperol and there's a dog.
Speaker 2:I know, sorry, the reality, the reality of shooting the book. But the second time around I think I was a much more. I mean as much as there's always a kind of stress behind it. I definitely gave myself a few days in between to make sure that I could. There were days that if anything was to happen you know that it started raining or something and it was awful weather I could change it. Or if it wasn't, then you know know, I got that day free to go to go to and explore a city or that kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So you're doing it anyway. You're there anyway, right, even if it's only a day, just to have some kind of experience wherever you are like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important to take that moment, I agree, and I think that's something I don't know, maybe that's something that you kind of learn as well, because I think, you know, I don't know, I sort of sometimes I think that I'm there for I'm there for work and I'm there to accomplish something, so I must go and accomplish it and then, yeah, trying to find a happy medium between the two, um, I think it's, yeah, it's a have to learn. You know, I think I I come from a background you know my parents are hard workers and you know my dad said you know you work nine to five and get the job done, kind of thing. I think you know that the new way of working is to be able to you know thread other things into it to, yeah, make the most of it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so, hopefully the next book will be. It will just get better and better.
Speaker 1:hopefully Then, I won't come back at all. That's what I was gonna ask. Have you got an idea for another book? I do yes oh, anything you can tell us probably not yet.
Speaker 2:Not yet too early, probably a little bit too early so have you started working on it um sort of I've definitely started thinking about it a lot and so yeah, so, yeah, so I think yeah probably next year I'll start working on that one. Okay, so that'll be fun too.
Speaker 1:That's fun. So you've got your books, you've got your interior design architect clients. Do you do other like commercial work as well?
Speaker 2:Not so much no. Pretty much architecture is my niche yeah, Architecture and interiors. So I was working with architects, interior designers or suppliers, some of the you know, the furniture or lighting or bathroom people, sometimes the developers or the builders sometimes. But yeah, that's what I enjoy photographing. So sometimes I'll do a portrait. Every now and then, when a designer asks me, I'll say can we, you know, and I'll pop them into the architecture and take a photo of them.
Speaker 1:but yeah, it's something it's so awkward for us as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, having your portrait taken, and it's also it's usually the worst time.
Speaker 1:I really got lucky. On the last one I did, I don't know, maybe because the house was, um, it was one of my projects and it was a very kind of finished house. Maybe it was just a little bit less stressful. But usually we're like running around trying to make sure everything's perfect and then it's like, okay, let's get a lovely glamorous shot of you.
Speaker 2:Never at the end, You're never feeling good right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it needs to be at the start, but at the start you don't feel like you've got the time. So it's just this kind of weird stress and and I don't know what it was about the last shoot I did, I was just feeling like yep, going to plop myself in a shot and I actually really love it. I don't know, maybe I just didn't overthink it. Yeah, I think it's so hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree. So you've just moved into a new place, mount Martha, are you?
Speaker 2:going to shoot that, probably. I mean, you know, well, I don't know, probably I'll take some pictures of it, I don't know what, for just for myself, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to see it. Yeah, we need to see the transformation.
Speaker 2:We probably need to shoot it kind of sooner rather than later, because you know when you probably find, with your houses too, is that once you settle into a home you don't look at it anymore.
Speaker 1:You know, when it's new and fresh, it's exciting.
Speaker 2:That's true for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that excitement of the new house.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, maybe you can come and visit one day too. I will.
Speaker 1:We'll take you up on that. We'll have our pearl sprints. Yes exactly Deal Well. Thank you so much, Nicole, for joining us. It's been such a great chat and super interesting. I've loved all the stories Same, and we'll be coming up to say hi, um, yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2:Really can't wait to see what the new book is about too. Yeah, thank you, got us in suspense.
Speaker 1:It's so inspiring. I think it's just meeting, meeting yourself, somebody who is just in their creativity. It's just so inspiring. So thank you for sharing all that good vibe with us thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank's been fun. We're all going off to manifest.
Speaker 1:I know I'm going to write down my big dreams. Yes, good Thanks, nicole. Thank you, bye. Thank you. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you. From this podcast today, a big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.