Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
Natural Living by Design: Melissa Penfold's Sustainable Design Philosophy
Stepping into a beautiful home isn't simply about admiring aesthetics—it's about experiencing how deeply our surroundings affect our wellbeing. Design authority Melissa Penfold joins us to reveal the philosophy behind her stunning new book "Natural Living by Design," where timeless style meets environmental consciousness.
Melissa shares how her childhood beach house, with its weathered wood and connection to nature, shaped her understanding of nurturing spaces. This early influence sparked a career that would help countless Australians reimagine their homes as sanctuaries. The conversation unfolds with practical wisdom about creating spaces that ground us through natural materials—plaster walls, wooden floors, and stone elements that have stood the test of time.
What makes this discussion particularly refreshing is Melissa's insistence that sustainable design doesn't require massive budgets. She enthusiastically reveals her auction house strategies, explains why refurbishing existing elements often trumps replacement, and describes how simple touches like seasonal fruit displays or collected botanical specimens can transform a space more effectively than expensive renovations. The passion in her voice is palpable as she explains how these choices benefit not just current homeowners but future generations.
Beyond the expected design talk, Melissa offers unexpected insights about sound absorption, ventilation strategies, and creating "visual tactility"—elements rarely covered in typical interior discussions. She explains why even the most perfectly styled homes can feel soulless without elements of whimsy, drama, and personal history. The most luxurious homes in her book (from Giorgio Armani's never-before-published living room to a breathtaking Palm Beach residence) all follow these principles.
Ready to transform your space? Listen now and discover how small, thoughtful choices in materials, light, and arrangement can create homes that nurture both inhabitants and the planet.
'Natural Living by Design', available now at all great book stores or online
https://melissapenfold.com/new-book
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Bree offers a 90-minute online design consult to help you tackle key challenges like colour selection, furniture curation, layout, and styling. Get tailored one-on-one advice and a detailed follow-up report with actionable recommendations—all without a full-service commitment.
Bookings now open for late July Learn more: https://breebanfield.com
Back by popular demand— Lauren's 'Colour and Materials Masterclass ' returns on August 2nd! If you're unsure how to pair paint colours with floors or finishes, this full-day online event is for you. Learn how colour really works and follow a clear, step-by-step method to confidently choose the right paint every time. It's a fun, practical day with a vibrant community of fellow colour lovers.
Tickets are on sale now and sold out fast last time—don’t miss out!
https://www.sisalla-sessions.com.au/products/live_events/colour-materials-workshop
you know, ask us questions and stuff as well, and at the end of the podcast, um, we will. Um, it just needs to download. So just um, you can leave the, leave the platform, but just don't close your computer until it's 100 downloaded sure, and do you edit anything out? Yeah. So if you're like oh, I didn't want to say it like that, just let us know when we can edit it, okay, sure yeah, hold the button down for two seconds oh, we like it, we like it, ally.
Speaker 1:So let's see, I think I've got you starting that one, brie, I do.
Speaker 3:Today on the podcast, we're thrilled to be joined by one of Australia's most respected authorities on style, interiors and design, Melissa Penfold. On style, interiors and design Melissa Penfold, you may know her from her long career as a journalist and columnist for publications like Vogue, Living Country Style and the Sydney Morning Herald. Her work has helped shape the way many Australians think about the spaces they live in.
Speaker 1:Melissa has a gift for showing how beautiful design can also be deeply nurturing and accessible. In her new book Natural Living by Design. It's a stunning exploration on how to create homes that are not just elegant and timeless, but also sustainable, healthy and aligned with the natural world.
Speaker 3:From the impact of childhood memories to practical design tips, from the emotional power of awe to the quiet confidence of timeless style, the book is an absolute insight. We're so excited to dive into it with her today, Melissa welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's so nice to be with you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having us. I was so thrilled when you sent me a copy of your book. It is absolutely gorgeous and I suppose the thing is, you know, it's got a fabric cover, and who doesn't love a book with a fabric cover?
Speaker 3:So pretty.
Speaker 1:But I think it is so much more than what it looks like and I really wanted to dive into, you know, some of the ideas in the book as well. I absolutely loved reading it.
Speaker 2:You're right. It's not just a beautiful book. There are so many design books that are. I don't think there's ever been more design books. This is not just a pretty book, which it certainly is. It's a book with a purpose and it's ethical.
Speaker 1:I was. Yeah, I was really. I just really enjoyed reading it. And in the introduction of the book you mentioned a beach house from your childhood. You mentioned, if I can quote from the book, weathered wood, wicker furniture, terracotta, et cetera. It sounds sorry and then I was going to say it sounds like you've always taken a lot of notice in your environment and was this beach house from your childhood, was that informative in your career?
Speaker 2:talking about interior design and in journalism. I think it must have been. I certainly didn't know it at the time as a child, but I grew up in. That beach house was such a happy place and it connected to nature so beautifully. It had windows where you could see the ocean. It was right on the beach and my mother had. Great style was quite avant-garde. Our city home was done by Marion Horbis the whole house.
Speaker 3:So I probably did a lot of design.
Speaker 2:My mother also was an antique dealer, so I grew up in beautiful surroundings and, as I said, I don't think I knew it at the time, but I was taking it all in and I can still now memorize the layouts of all our houses, the fabrics, the pieces. So and I I thought everyone could do that, but I think probably not. And the interesting thing is that wherever you live, even if your house isn't on the beach or it's a rural estate, you can bring those elements in. And wherever I've lived since I've tried to do that. So, yes, it probably did inform my design choices.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny how you don't realise until you're older and you look back that oh, not everyone can pull that off and has these beautiful interiors and people don't always live like that. But it isn't that hard to kind of, I guess, introduce those things into your home, is it?
Speaker 2:No, no, and that's the wonderful thing. It's so easy. And this is what the book is about. They're very, very small. Everything you do think about it, there are small changes that add up, and that's what I want from the book to change people's lives.
Speaker 2:It's just small things, small decisions, but they have a cumulative effect. So every piece you choose for your house, make it natural, Make the materials natural. I'm looking around, mike. This is a city flat, harbourside flat, but it's everything I'm looking at. There's paper mache, there's timber, there's there's stone, there's sisal, there's wood, there's, it's, it's. I'm surrounded by natural materials and they can transport you to a place and time far away, even though I'm right in the middle of double bay.
Speaker 1:That's so true, I love the picture that you've painted. I love the picture that you've painted there.
Speaker 2:Everyone can do that and bring in more light. I think you know bring in, or will you? You ask me questions.
Speaker 1:Well, I was just going to apologize for the LED colored microphone that we've loaned you for this talk here.
Speaker 3:It's the most garish thing that your home's probably ever had all these lovely, lovely natural things, and if you're listening and can't see but, um, we've sent melissa a mic to use I'm so excited. I feel very technologically advanced with it but it's got all these neon kind of led lights happening. You know it, it's flashing green.
Speaker 1:Changes colours.
Speaker 3:And then you're talking about all these beautiful natural elements and it's balanced out.
Speaker 2:You can't by balancing everything out. Behind me I've got grass weave on the walls, you know.
Speaker 3:You need the disco to balance it. I get it Totally.
Speaker 2:You know, I've got wool, I've got everywhere. You look, there's lovely things and I'm on rattan chairs around my desk and I'm constantly, when I'm thinking, just feeling things and inspired. What sort of fact goes back to that.
Speaker 3:Sorry, Lauren's going to go.
Speaker 1:Well, I was just going to say that one of the quotes that I loved from the book. A nourishing home is one that promotes healthy living, and you've just painted that picture there, and it's all of those natural materials that creates that home environment. They just feel good to be surrounded with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, exactly. Our homes should nurture us, they should heal us, they should rejuvenate us. It's an antidote to the chaos of the world outside. More than ever, we need homes that can and should be our havens. I like to walk in and just go oh, every time I come home. And nourishing a home is one where lots of natural light. So open your windows, pull off the valances. If you've got pelmets and stuff, pull them off. Bring in as much natural light, obviously, if you can.
Speaker 3:I love natural light so much, you know, raised ceilings and enlarged doorways.
Speaker 2:That's great, but that's life-changing, but it can be expensive. There are other ways to bring in light. Use pale color schemes, light color schemes. Don't use dark color schemes. Don't hang dark paintings. Use matte surfaces because they reflect light. Hang mirrors they reflect light. But you also want to bring plants inside. You want views of the outdoors. You want non-toxic materials, which is what I was talking about plaster, wood, stone plaster. One thing, and I didn't realise until we looked at the whole book nearly every house in this book has plaster walls or lime-washed walls, and the effect can be spellbinding to live with.
Speaker 2:Our country house has lime-washed or plaster walls and it just makes everything makes you feel grounded. And timber floors you instantly feel grounded. I actually have sisal here and I don't think they work as well. I was recently staying with my daughter and she's got timber floors down in Melbourne and they are just so grounding. The smell of them. There's nothing like just natural materials. So you just want to think about every single material you bring into your life, into your home the lighting, the materials. You want wonderful sofas that you can curl up into. You want comfortable beds. You want beautiful dinnerware to have and hold. You want great glasses.
Speaker 2:You want beautiful dinnerware to have and hold. You want great glasses, you want great door handles. Anything you have and hold every day has to be the best you can afford. It's sustainable, and that's where we get into this climate change. Do it once and do it right with your decisions. Buy the best you can afford and it will last, so that's nice and sound. Last, so that's nice and sound. Sound is so important. I had a door that creaked drove me crazy. Oilish Floorboards that creak put a rug down. My son was staying with me for a while over COVID and he would crash the pans in the kitchen. We got to buy this Magic. I don't hear anyone in the kitchen anymore.
Speaker 1:But these little things I haven't thought about that, these little things, the sound of that, the sound.
Speaker 2:You know so many houses that design houses that you see in all the smart magazines and on Instagram are very hard surfaces, lots of glass and lots of metal and steel and concrete.
Speaker 2:We need soft things, we need sound absorbing things for luxury, to soothe us and for serenity. And we need, you know, hanger, tapestry, get-throw rugs, cushions, curtains they're all the things that create a home that nurtures and nourishes. So add those layers and, even with windows, you know the two things you want. You want a house that's well ventilated, so think of layers on your windows. You know sunscreen, roller blinds, shutters, louvers, awnings, so you can get a breeze through the whole house and you don't need air conditioning.
Speaker 2:So people talk about sustainability and climate change and think, oh yeah, that sounds nice, but it sounds expensive. Um, you'll save money because you're not. You're not. Um, uh, turning on air con. And the other thing is, in winter, make sure all your windows are airtight and seal up any cracks. You ever been in a drafty house with wind coming up through the floorboards? So it's like putting your house in a woolly jumper.
Speaker 2:That's the other thing, and even really thin particle board in a house, can you know, help your energy efficiency by up to four times and again you save money. And this is all nourishing. It's just nourishing, it's climate control, it's everything.
Speaker 3:Look, I could go on Just read the book, and you have, but it's a really good point about.
Speaker 2:It's really basic stuff common sense, A lot of climate and sustainability is very technical, or it's very general. This is just I never realized. I'm actually quite sustainably minded, because I don't renovate kitchens and bathrooms. I make do with what I've got and smarten them up, and because if hardwood cupboards are good, they should last for 100 years with a coat of paint and new doorknobs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2:So the less you do, the more sustainable. It is Sorry that's getting off your question of nurturing home.
Speaker 3:But basically no. But it sort of leads into the next one, which was the fact that you actually do talk about climate change and sustainability in such a, I guess, a beautifully aesthetic book. That I don't think. I think it's a bit of a surprise, isn't it, that we don't really get that a lot to kind of touch on that.
Speaker 2:I love that you ask that, Brie and Lauren. I love that you ask that because it's when I see those off the grid container I think, oh, that looks a bit scary, that looks scary and expensive and I don't know where to go with all that Great. But this is just every decision you make, Weigh it up and take less from the give more to the environment than you take.
Speaker 3:And yeah, that's, and even though the houses, so weigh every decision up.
Speaker 2:Even though the houses are very high-end and luxurious and they're all over the world, it usually trends, usually start there and filter right down to the rest, the rest with everything and this is where it's starting um luxury.
Speaker 2:Now is this sustainability and this caring about our environment. The book's dedicated to my grandson. I've got this darling little boy that my daughter had. He's now two and I was thinking how. I was in New York and there was this. It was right, as I'd had a meeting with my publisher in the summer of 2023 and New York was empty. In the afternoon it was, the skies were yellow and I thought, god, what is going on? And it was the bushfires from Canada. Oh wow, and everyone didn't except me. I was trotting around on my own and I thought what can I do to make this my bit with my design knowledge to help future generations? So if we all do this stuff, we leave the world a better place for our children.
Speaker 3:That's such a beautiful sentiment as well, I think and to think about. I mean, we probably think about our kids, but yeah, they're grandkids.
Speaker 2:Well, my children. I'm hoping to leave a better world for my children and my grandchild and their friends. Well, that's the way it should be? Unfortunately, I don't think them if they don't have more, and my grandchild and their friends, yeah Well that's the way it should be.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, I don't think everyone thinks that way. I think everyone lives very much in the moment and I think it's so nice, even just the things you're saying about not you know, completely renovating something and fixing things and actually improving what you already have, and that's also where a lot of character comes from in our homes too, isn't it a house?
Speaker 2:oh brie, so true. That's how you get a house that looks layered and lived in by by. I often go into houses. I've learned the most by looking at what not to do.
Speaker 2:I go into a perfect house and all the right brands, all the right names, and I think this is has no soul, this house yeah, I agree and it's usually because one of the best things that I think will probably you'll probably ask me about this is, um, shopping your own home, yeah, and reusing what you've got. And you know our country house it wasn't I mean, it was a beautiful house you can see it on my Instagram but it's. I didn't like the wallpaper they'd used, but I kept it and I I made it work. The floors were salvaged French oak, but they're a bit orange. I did, I kept them and made them work and it all worked and no one would have noticed, but it's making things work, you don't?
Speaker 2:have to rush in and redo it all, as I said, kitchen and bathroom's here or in the powder room. I put Toile de Jouy, new wallpaper up and it was from a photo shoot. I said anyone want that? Great, I'll take it.
Speaker 1:And it looks fabulous and a new basin, and I think that's the thing with your book. You know it looks very elevated, no doubt, as you said, the designers and the photography, it's world class, they're incredible. But the message that you're talking about is about climate change. I have to say I was pretty surprised, I know, but it's really down to earth and the tips that you give in there. I mean your passion. Just hearing you talking, I am just wanting to, like, dig out some beautiful dinnerware or something that I don't have. I was going to say, go out and buy stuff, but that's not the message.
Speaker 3:No, no but you could thrift it. Beautiful dinnerware can be found. I love finding stuff like that. You don't need to.
Speaker 2:Isabella. My daughter came back from her and her husband had been in america and uh london when they first got married for two years and they came back and got a place in um sydney three bedroom, nothing. They didn't have a thing because they'd been living in rentals that were fully furnished. Anyway, she decorated it in two weeks from auction for nothing. And it ended up on the front cover of a 12-page story in House and Garden. Front cover, the dining room table was $150.
Speaker 2:Seriously Her desk which was huge, which was an old French refectory table was $100.
Speaker 2:She got a chest, a Georgian chest of drawers for $100. I told the head of the auction house how much she got it all for. He said that's stopping. I didn't know there were things slipping through the system for those prices. She did the whole, apart from a bed and a sofa. Everything was bought at auction in two weeks. That's wild. And this is the whole thing, this whole circular economy. It doesn't go into landfill, it's available now. There's no shipping costs and also the stuff has gravitas.
Speaker 2:It's weightier, it's made more beautifully and if you buy two good pieces of furniture a year, in 10 years you'll have 20 great pieces. I've still got a chair I bought with my first paycheck from Bell Magazine when I left university, which was $2,000 I had to save up and a mirror from Country Trader that I bought for $2,000.
Speaker 3:And it's gone from house to house. But also then you've got memories attached to that right, even just the fact that you remember that's when you bought it and it was with your first paycheck. So those things have meaning, even if they're not expensive things or you know particular brands.
Speaker 2:To me at the time they were expensive, that $2,000.
Speaker 3:I was making $540 a week. Yeah, of course no doubt.
Speaker 2:I was making $540 a week and I had to save up, but I was so thrilled and 40 years later, I've still got them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, melissa, can you tell us a little bit about your background? So you mentioned that you worked at Bell Magazine.
Speaker 2:Oh, so I did a. I did a communications and literature degree and while I was there I did a work experience for Kerry Packer at ACP for House and Garden Magazine, and they kept me for 12 years and I ended up the youngest design editor ever at Bell Magazine. I then got headhunted when I was 29 to set up Domain and they had about 20 people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I didn't want to go because you know I was happy with the magazines. It was glossy and glamorous and all my friends were there Anyway, and it was probably the best thing. They had a lot of people and they wanted me and so I just had my second child and he was about six months old. Anyway, they said we want you to do the upfront double page column. If that works, domain will work. Anyway, I ended up doing it. I then had Bargain Hunter columns in Spectrum, which was the most read column anywhere ever and the most copied column, and I stayed there for six, uh, 17 years and writing those columns every week, um, and they had two million readers a week oh wow, must have loved you.
Speaker 2:I think I sold more advertising. I was the highest paid contributing editor the Herald because my pages brought in so much. You know revenue and all the news editors who were serious couldn't work it out. You know I was writing about candles and cushions but it's what everyone wanted to know and you know there's been this tsunami of interest in interiors ever since it wasn't there. I brought a visual culture into a writing culture at the Herald and also showed people okay, what people were doing in the $30 million houses where to get the colour paint. You mightn't have the $30 million house, but you can use the same colour paint.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's so true, you can use the same tiles.
Speaker 2:You can get the look for less. That is so inspiring and you don't need, because when people come to your house, they don't notice the million dollar architecture, they notice the flowers yeah, the personal details, the cushions, they notice, you know. Um, I'm just going to show you. I mean, the first thing I ever do each week is oh, girls is bring. Oh, it doesn't look very good, but I get Beautiful.
Speaker 3:Magnolia.
Speaker 2:I get just, I bring life into the house.
Speaker 3:I will go in here. I love that too, and it's easy. You can do that in your own garden too, or even just the next door neighbors. I just go out with my little secateurs and steal a couple of branches you know it.
Speaker 2:Just, it can be the most beautifully decorated place in the world, but it looks dead if you don't bring life and nature into it. Foliage plants you know, I had an invented private room. It was done by one of the best decorators in Australia but it was flat. So I just went to one of the grocers and found what was on sale lemons $1.99, about five kilos. For what's that? $12. And then daffodil, jonquils and eucalypt and I don't like eucalypt much were on sale. So I bought masses of them, piled them in little terracotta pots, little old earthenware pots. It was magic. Now anyone can do that. It's bringing you. You want to buy the fruit? Buy 30 apples, 30 potatoes, pile them into a tray, make them look as though they're about to fall off the table and instantly it brings soul into a house.
Speaker 3:Agree it's kind of incidental stuff right.
Speaker 1:A little bit. I know what you were saying. We see a lot of projects and they are the multi, multi-million dollar and you can almost see the schedule of the furniture. Well, that's from here, that's from there. Dot, dot dot. But it's those things that you say go to your grocer's, go to your Woolworth's, whatever.
Speaker 2:But they don't have soul.
Speaker 1:Exactly, they don't have soul. And it's actually not expensive. And what we actually um, not expensive. No, yeah, and I think that's another surprise in the book, a lot of those tips and you give so many tips so generously throughout the whole book they're not go out and buy the most expensive sofa in the world. It is those little things that you can do that elevate your space and make it feel alive, and I'm just hearing you talk so passionately about it. No wonder you've written many books and writing it's just, it's so infectious, it's just awesome.
Speaker 2:I just I want everyone to have a beautiful house and to know it can change what surrounds you, affects you.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:What surrounds you affects you. Good design creates good moods, and it affects your mood, your health, your happiness and look. I know this more than ever from my house in the country. I have never felt so well, and so I didn't go to a doctor for 15 years.
Speaker 2:I just I. It elevated me in a way I've never known, because every room opened, looked out onto greenery, you stepped onto grass. There was wooden floors, there were plaster walls, it was just so earthy and so grounding. And okay, you may not have a rural you know country house, but these elements you can bring into your weathered wood furniture, textured walls. You know a stone fireplace in the city. These are the things that will transport you and bring you this peace, and so there's a lot of tactility.
Speaker 3:I think that's what you're talking about. Everything that you're saying is very tactile, even if it's a visual. I call it like a visual tactility and that's what you want.
Speaker 2:You want to bring in the sound, the sense of nature, your rooms. You want to actually create the feeling of a forest, almost like open spaces and little shady spots. And that's what you have to be like Light and dark, Like you would find outdoors. So I am sure, like you were saying, Lauren, you know you go into these big multimillion-dollar places and they're too open and if you've ever lived in an open place, you do need little places to retreat as well.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent I agree with that and you know I I picked that up in your book. What you said earlier about sound, you know we we see images, we see images and you know we can explain um, texture and everything like that. But I was like oh, sound, we never talk about that. You don't read about that in interior books. I thought that was a really good point.
Speaker 2:Sound is so important. If you can introduce a little babbling water feature, tiny, it's just magic, especially in an urban place. Music, of course. Scent, you know every night I get a little. I'm a bit wary of candles because of their toxicity, but a tiny little candle, the little one, and just you know I turn on the table lamps which are, like you know they're like the earrings of the interior and because that will bring that most prize of human experiences, which is pure enjoyment your lights, your soft lights, the scent.
Speaker 2:So remember, there's nothing worse than walking into a house and thinking, oh, this smells hideous. Or we've all stayed in those hotels where you can't open the windows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or the artificial smell and the synthetic carpet and synthetic furniture where you can't open the windows, or the artificial smell Like you've got to feel real too and synthetic carpet and synthetic furniture and you think, oh, we want the antithesis of that.
Speaker 1:You know it was interesting what you said earlier. When you're a child and then you realize that you were really capturing, you could really remember everything and I remember that as well. As a kid, I would go to a friend's house and go oh, this is different, this is a different way of living. Do you ever open those curtains? And why is there handles here without a tassel on them? Because where I grew up, my mum had a tassel hanging on every single doorknob. Handle, little thing.
Speaker 1:So it is interesting, yeah, and it's just like the, because I think we understand how it can really change your life.
Speaker 2:look you're in the mood of a place too people go to psychiatrists and psychologists for their head, but no one thinks about their surroundings, which I am sure research shows. Actually, yeah, it's more powerful than anything I agree causes. You know the wrong environment anxiety, sleep problems, stress. You know all the chronic diseases. Get it right, you'll fly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like you said, lauren about going to someone's house when you're younger and I'm thinking about that and, um, the houses that stood out for me were the ones that felt like warm and lived in and you were really comfortable and felt safe there. And then there were the ones that were like so neat and tidy and everything in its place, perfect, and I felt the tenseness of that home. Yeah, I still know those people and I know that that's part of their like that is part of the family was really tense and it was reflected in the interior, and that's what we want to do.
Speaker 3:Part of the family was really tense and it was reflected in the interior, and that's what we want to capture the first one the comfort the safeness. Yes, the safeness, I think, is a big deal.
Speaker 2:Wanting to linger a safe haven and you know when you walk into a room whether it's successful or not, and you want to spend time in and you don't want to leave.
Speaker 1:And you know the ones like it's a nice feeling. And it's not always about the most expensive things, and I thought that was really refreshing. In the book as well, you gave some really great tips. It wasn't, as I said, about spending a lot of money. It's those simple things that can really have a lot of impact.
Speaker 2:We show the best to inspire, but from all of them there are ideas that you can you know use.
Speaker 1:I think you said in the book something like how much you spend is less important than how well you channel your inner curator and mix things from different eras, and I just loved that.
Speaker 2:It's mixing those eras.
Speaker 1:It's not all about having all the most expensive. Sure, there's some things that are worth investing in, and I was talking about that the other day. I think artwork is, and I think that's sort of contrary to a lot of people think, oh, I've got to buy the most expensive sofa. I'm like, no, you don't have to, but invest in those other things like artwork.
Speaker 3:I would rather have an amazing artwork than a really expensive sofa.
Speaker 2:I've never spent more than $500 on a sofa ever.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, I'd love to hear that I know.
Speaker 2:Look, I have got friends in the right places. You know designers. Usually I say, every time you want to offload a sofa, send it to me, but it'll be a top sofa. And they say, give me $500 for it, I love it, go to auction, auction, auction. It's a secondary market. 100%, you know, I would not. I put my money into other things. Sorry, what were you saying too?
Speaker 1:Well, I was just yeah about mixing things from different eras as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yes, yes, yeah, look, it used to be the status symbol, used to be how much you spent. You know how much. Oh, I'm buying an Italian contemporary sofa for, you know, huge money. Now, it's how well you channel your inner curator, how well you can mix things, and that is a real art and it's to do it successfully you need to put a cap on the number of stars. So I mean, yes, you can have a bit of French and a bit of Chinese and a bit of English and a bit of American, but you don't want Edwardian, victorian, you know, you want to stick to maybe Regency or Georgian with contemporary, and there's a big difference between layered and distracted.
Speaker 3:And a big mess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a dog's breakfast, a dog's breakfast. So the secret is having a focal point. You must have a focal point, and all those rooms, the successful ones, you probably didn't even know as a kid. Brie would have had a focal point, a fireplace a piece of art a fabulous rug, a statement rug or something that forces you to relax. If you've ever been into a room you can't relax, it's usually there's no focal point there's too many things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally get that it's cluttered and distracted. So I think that's probably you can't think. Curating, you know, letting your inner curator think, is code for anything goes, because it's not anything goes Well.
Speaker 3:The word curation is the key there, right yeah?
Speaker 2:And eclectic everyone. If you ever ask them what's your style, they go eclectic. Well, eclectic is not a byword for anything goes. It's so true, it's not. You must have, you must have a focal point, and it's a bit trickier to achieve than than most people think.
Speaker 3:I think it is yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I don't think the focal point.
Speaker 1:You don't understand it? Well, no, no, I was just going to say I don't think the focal point should be the tv either oh god, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I don't even have a tv any.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I've got one that doesn't work, but um yeah, um, I liked the way that you break down the chapters of the book, and the chapter that I thought was an interesting one, which kind of talks about that focal point in a way, is the awe chapter. Oh yeah, I love awe and there's this incredible image in there with this fantasy scene mural wallpaper, and I think that people might not have a focal point or might not want to create that sense of awe in their space because they're terrified of getting it wrong.
Speaker 1:So, do you have any tips or something for them to sort of take that leap?
Speaker 2:Well, they can start small. So if they, you know, if they're nervous, start small, start in a small area, start in a powder room, start in a small entry, start inside a cupboard.
Speaker 3:Powder room's always great, isn't it Inside a cupboard inside a pantry Painted a bright colour. I love that, yeah, painted a bright colour, that's cute. A nice little surprise.
Speaker 2:Fabulous, busy, crazy wallpaper that you love but are too scared to use in a bigger area. And then every time you open it, it's a wonderful, an unexpected moment, a surprising moment.
Speaker 3:You find yourself standing in the cupboard all the time just because you love the wallpaper so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the reason In a pantry, and that's a way to start small and get your confidence up. Pantry, and that that's a way to start small and get your confidence up. But it can be, you know, it can be an entry, an alcove, a bedroom, a um, a hallway any small area and it doesn't have to be a you know, faux books. It can be stripes, a bright color or a brighter color than you would normally use.
Speaker 3:Something that brings you lots of joy, right.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I think a bit of whimsy, and this has been great working with these publishers Vendome because they've increased my. I have very. My taste is very.
Speaker 3:I like non-colors and beiges and accrues and scotches and car keys, so sort of neutrals. Yes, and they have sort of helped me be riskier Because they're giving you a grounding space and then you're adding to that.
Speaker 2:I've always liked ground and humble, always, but just a bit, I think, interiors without a bit of whimsy, quirk, theatre, drama. I went into an influencer's house with a designer friend and I could not believe how boring it was. And I said to my designer friend when we left, what was the matter with that house, why didn't you put me off? And they said no, drama, everything was from the right fabric places.
Speaker 2:It would have, you know, no expense spared. But there was no drama, no theatre. So even if that theatre is a massive Baroque table Baroque, by the way, is a bargain at auctions at the moment a massive 18th century mirror, you know just something fun, and this is all you know. It can even be breaking up your kitchen cupboards with a ruffled curtain. You've all seen that. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, put it on and it's just. You know, hang a Anna Spiro, does this? Hang a whole bunch of plates on a wall, you know for drama and like just trays on a wall. You know rattan trays on a wall. Things do not need to be.
Speaker 3:Something a bit unexpected as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've got a bunch of rattan trays in the kitchen, just all over the place, and I don't know where I got them over the years, but they wouldn't have cost much and they look amazing. You can hang, you know, all kinds of plates.
Speaker 3:I'm getting very inspired. I feel like this weekend I'm going to be like going around my own place and going.
Speaker 2:What else can I do? We set up a festive drinks table. It's one of the easy table against the wall and then just do a really festive drinks table with lots of you know. I went into a girl's house and she had a huge wooden bowl filled with coca-cCola cans and it was just so fabulous my kids would love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's the problem. So do some fun things. You do need a little bit of whimsy, fun, excitement, surprise in an interior, just to provide uplift. And that oar is an important. And the six, the six chapters are flow, light, ease, timelessness, or and nature. And look at any one of them. Used on their own, can change your mood, your life, but used together, they are magic.
Speaker 1:I love that. I want everyone to experience them.
Speaker 2:I want everyone to experience them. I'm just so excited by the possibilities.
Speaker 1:And you give that, you share that passion in your book as well, and I think that that's what I found really refreshing about the book in terms of the image has been quite high end, but you're sort of breaking them down and saying, look, but that's what I found really refreshing about the book in terms of the images being quite high end, but you're sort of breaking them down and saying, look, you know the plates on the wall and I was just flipping through the book then and there was some images like that and you could literally go to the auction house or you could even find some quirky stuff off Marketplace and use them in an unexpected way they said all my kids use that all the time.
Speaker 2:Oh, my mum is the queen. Can I ask about?
Speaker 3:the auctions yeah, I have never bought anything auction.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, you will become addicted.
Speaker 3:Bree Addicted, I think I would, and maybe that's one of the reasons I haven't no Addicted. But what are the can you give me? Like? Where do you even start? Like, what can give me? Like? Where do you even start? Like, what are the tips?
Speaker 2:when you start to look at auction houses and I feel like it's a bit nerve-wracking like do you go in with like a budget or do you just go on instinct, like what's the? How do you do it? It's the same thing buy what you love and I'm guided by price and I look for a bargain and what? I love and you know you can't this. You've got to register.
Speaker 2:you can't accidentally buy an ashtray for $10,000 because there's, you know they could, because that's the sort of thing I would probably do no, you can't because there are sort of you've got to register three times and then you've got to go through steps, so it's impossible to do you leave a bid. I go on the Thursday auctions on Lennon Jog. I've got an article in Harsin Garden my daughter and I do a monthly thing with them called Little Black Book. Oh yes, yeah. And next month's auctions and we go through all the auction houses and talk about our favourites.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm going to have to go and read that.
Speaker 2:Lennon Jog is our new favorite and they have a Thursday salon auction. Oh, vickers and Hode, amazing. All the dealers shop there. All the dealers shop there, that's a good tip. I bought a tapestry a French tapestry for $50. It's on my wall, Seriously.
Speaker 3:So you just leave a bid and just see if you win, I'm going to have to do this you will become addicted.
Speaker 2:Isabella and I are. I don't read books. What?
Speaker 3:do, you do. So you have multiple properties to put things into. But if you're still buying stuff, where is it going? I'm getting rid of stuff I sell on auction.
Speaker 2:So I sell a lot too.
Speaker 3:And does it help things stay fresh as well. Like it's like.
Speaker 2:Well, it's time for this piece to go when I go into people's houses and they're the same as they were five years before, because, like you, I can remember.
Speaker 3:I think yeah, you kidding, I know you know I have no judgment, I have things that I get sick of and I don't necessarily. Sometimes you sell them and sometimes they just kind of get put away and you bring something else out.
Speaker 2:Right, I've made a fortune.
Speaker 3:Smart you sell.
Speaker 2:So you know you make money on all this stuff you buy and it's just circular and then it goes into another world.
Speaker 3:Well, it's another part of it being sustainable, right is actually you're not even spending new money. You're not even spending new money, You're just spending money, that was already there in other pieces.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all very simple. Yeah, the Leonard Joel sign up to the emails but they are quite tempting. But I also like looking at the categories like jewellery Like I'm not going to go out and spend $20,000 on a diamond, but how fun to look at them all.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I've bought a big artwork. I'm stunned how cheap the jewellery is. I've never bought like vintage jewellery, but it looks amazing.
Speaker 3:I'm scared of curses.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 2:That's so funny, you know like you buy a ring and then you find out it belonged to some dead lady and she was cursed by another woman because they stole everything for jewelry and just focus on the um, focus on the furniture, but you know the things that are cheap at the moment are georgian and regency furniture all the brown furniture, but no, not all the brown, just ge Georgian and Regency. It is fantastic. Baroque is very, you know, I actually quite like Baroque and clocks. You know, amazing French clocks, because no one has clocks anymore, do they no? But they look fabulous and they add elegance. What we all want is effortless elegance. That's the ultimate aim.
Speaker 1:Hmm, well, I have a theory, um, based on what you're saying, melissa, to buy up all of their underpriced furniture that is such good quality and keep it in a warehouse for 30 years until the trend cycle rolls around again.
Speaker 2:Like a mid-century thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly Because it's so underpriced.
Speaker 2:Beware of storage.
Speaker 1:I'm just joking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I know. So look, it's so exciting our homes and the possibilities, and the possibilities and I think the book is just about. I was so excited because I had to do a PowerPoint presentation the other day at an event and I actually went through all the captions and I could not believe the designers in this book. They're the 1% of the 1% in the world that are in this book.
Speaker 2:So you're looking at the best there is, and they are all using these techniques that I break down, that are so easy for all of us.
Speaker 3:And they do look effortless. I think that's one of the things that I take away when I look at all those interiors. There's obviously an absolute warmth. You're very drawn to it, but there is an effortless look about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just weighing up every you know, weighing the trade-offs.
Speaker 3:When you make a decision, whether it's cushions, lighting, ventilation, weigh the trade-offs and just make sure they all have a positive effect on your life and on the planet, and that's, that's how you will flourish and that's how we will all flourish you mentioned timeless as well, that's one of the chapters and and lauren and I've had lots of conversations about timeless interiors, um, but I guess what's your like, what is your take on that in terms of timeless interior like, what's your explanation of why?
Speaker 2:I think everyone has a different sort of take on it I think, whatever your, whatever your um style, no matter what your style is, the use of natural materials will will always boost your sense of well-being. So, um, just use timeless materials like stone, like what? What we were talking?
Speaker 2:about stone wood metal, glass, terracotta, lime wash that stood the test of time and they look as fresh now as they did hundreds of years ago. And, like I said for urban dwellers, timelessness stone, fireplace, textured walls, weathered furniture it will transport you to a time and place far away. You know we're looking for timeless things. Work with your own possessions, shop your own house. It's not only a sensible approach and Brie, you brought this up it creates that feeling that your interior has always been there, which is something we want. We don't want to look as though we've just arrived. That a river's day look something we want. We don't want to look as though we've just arrived. Yeah, um, that a riviste. Look um. So you know, use an old chair, a beautiful old chair with a thatch seat. Um, I love, um, I'll just show you this. Um, I use these from. Everyone says where do you get your accessories from? I always, whenever we go in style, we use these pots from Water Tiger. Now they are used so much in my book. Is it terracotta? I think so, yeah.
Speaker 3:Is it just like so? Yeah, it's terracotta. This is showing us this beautiful kind of worn pot, like an old terracotta pot that's got layers of I don't know, patina, what would it be? Yeah, patina.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's just aged terracotta clay pot Clay yeah. And they used in the book. We did a house at Palm Beach. The brief for the book was I had to get five houses you know worldwide, but because I'm Australian, we had to get at least five houses from Australia that had never been seen before, like to be the best, and unpublished, which is very hard.
Speaker 3:Oh, that is hard, very hard, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And they sent a UK photographer from World of Interiors.
Speaker 3:Oh exciting.
Speaker 2:I love World of Interiors and he does all de gournay and um kit kemp's stuff for all her firm down which is anyway. He's quite well known. He flew out in summer last summer of 24 and I've got this palm beach house which is incredible and it had all these wall niches with the most incredible pots, all from Water Tiger, which is a shop. She's been around Kathy Bruce forever and she imports them. I use these. I mean all kinds. They're all different, they're all one-offs but they will instantly add soul to your place.
Speaker 3:Agree.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that was.
Speaker 3:I think I'm taking away. Sorry, lauren, I'm just going to take away from your version of timeless is that it can stand the test of time or it has stood the test of time, whether that's a material or a piece of furniture.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what makes it timeless. Yes, I love.
Speaker 3:I don't think we've had that explanation before and they're not as fresh today as they have hundreds of years.
Speaker 2:All these, as fresh today as they have hundreds of years, all these things.
Speaker 3:So, this could have been used in Pompeii, this vessel.
Speaker 2:But somehow it looks, it freshens up an interior immediately. You put that into one of your modern interiors, you go into instantly.
Speaker 1:It makes it look timeless and modern at the same time. Yeah, and I was thinking about that Influencers house that you said you visited. It sounded like a really on-trend vanilla beige, nothing, yeah, and add those kind of pots in there and instantly it's like, oh, hang on, something's going on here of interest. Yeah, it's so good kind of pots in there and instantly it's like oh, hang on, something's going on here of interest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so good. She added them with some incredibly spontaneous, authentic natural flower arrangement Fabulous, yeah.
Speaker 1:Fabulous, nice moment. You know. You mentioned those that Palm Beach house, which is sublime, that's sprinkled throughout the book. Palm Beach house, which is sublime, that's sprinkled throughout the book. And you've got, you know, images from designers like Bunny Williams, giorgio Armani, so many to name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, giorgio Armani. I think that his living room has never been published before, that living room, which is really exciting. He never uses art, he only uses mirrors, which is a nice an interesting take. It is. The captions are quite interesting.
Speaker 1:The captions are great. I mean it's style and it's substance. It's an overused term, but I guess because I've written a couple of books as well and I know how hard it is to attain those photographs. How did you get those kind of scoops?
Speaker 2:I worked with, I did a wish list of what. So we had a brief of what we wanted to do with my publisher, who's based in Palm Beach, florida and London. I met them in New York in summer of 23. And originally it was going to be Mediterranean houses, because they really go viral on my Instagram, and then we decided it would be worldwide and it needed to be worldwide, needed to have an Australian element. So I put together a wish list of the houses I wanted. I think you said you liked the Madrid house, which I adore.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Converted cow shed Cow shed who knew I would have liked to have more, but we're only allowed in this book to use three photos from each house.
Speaker 3:Oh, right, that would have been harsh.
Speaker 2:Very right, that would have been harsh, very, very so not the Australian houses, but the international. And so I did my wish list and I was working with the publisher's researcher, who's based in Dorset in England, who helped on my first book, and she's probably the best in the world at doing this, and she's got connections to all the top photographers in the world. So photographers are all the top photographers in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's clear to see. And even the guy, simon Brown, that came out I've been working with photographers all my life His colour, his saturation, the way he, the straightness of the photos I mean I just couldn't believe it. It was quite extraordinary. So we had our first pass and then we just look. I was spoiled for choice. I was getting up every day and there'd be new photos being sent to me of.
Speaker 2:Imani's house in Milan. I could really wait to get out of it. It was getting up every day and there'd be new photos being sent to me of Imani's house in Milan. I could really wait to get out of bed.
Speaker 1:It was a joy putting this book together.
Speaker 3:People say oh, books are so hard.
Speaker 2:I found it because I'm a journalist. I've worked in magazines and news, but I found it an absolute joy. I loved it and I think it probably comes across in the page.
Speaker 3:Oh, it totally does it, and I think it probably comes across in the page. Oh, it totally does. It comes across in the book. But even just I love that we've got to actually hear you talk about it, because it's making me feel even more attached to the book. Like your passion really is quite clear. Yeah, and everyone went on.
Speaker 2:They say, oh my God, I can't wait to go home and read it again. Oh, that's so nice and so yeah. So I work very closely with Karen, who is the researcher indoors, so who is brilliant and has just incredible ties to all the best photographers and most of them. We tried they had to be recent works or preferably, and then we, funnily enough, when we went to put them in the chapters the chapters I came up with most of them could go in any chapter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because they have, as you said. That's what makes them amazing, is they touch all those points right.
Speaker 2:Well, light could have gone into flow or ease or all. It was quite extraordinary. My daughter helped me with that and we were going. It was like a Rubik's Cube. I thought I'm going to that, and with the art director too, who was based in New York and she was look, the team was fabulous, I felt so fortunate.
Speaker 2:And they've done books with Cabana and Cabana Magazine and, oh gosh, everyone. Yeah, they really like the Rolls Royce of publishers, so I was very fortunate, but they it was just. That was interesting to me that each image could almost go in any chapter. So when you get it right, you really get it right. Do you have a favourite, a favourite house? Yeah, look that Palm Beach house. I've been into houses all over the world. I spent three months in America, upstate New York, in 2023. I went into a lot of the most incredible houses in the Hamptons and I love the Hamptons. I didn't see a house like that our Palm Beach house.
Speaker 2:I went into a lot of the most incredible houses in the Hamptons and I love the Hamptons I didn't see a house like that, our public house. It was extraordinary. It was based on Borgo, one of the big villas in Puglia that the owners had gone to, and the craftsmanship it's over five levels. It's sited into a hill, overlooking pit water. At the back, instead of a wall, they've got a three or five-story courtyard with palm trees that were brought in so light fills in from there, that's three stories, then five-story light.
Speaker 2:Well, filled with those Italian bowls on the wall.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know the lifts are just yeah that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's down the bottom Stunning.
Speaker 2:Look, it's just the most extraordinary hearse. And you know, if I was given a house I'd love that actually. Yeah, but do you know what?
Speaker 1:Is that the same house? Yes, let's have a look. So it's by Studio Snoop. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, incredible. Do you know? Amanda Talbot she does all this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she does all. I know Amanda. She's. She does all this. Yeah, I know Amanda.
Speaker 2:She did Mary Bale. She's in London now, but she did Totties Freds Berts, so it's got that very international look that could be anywhere. It could be in Spain, it could be in Italy, it could be in Greece. It's that very Mediterranean look which I seem to be drawn to. Um, it's and it's not designed like a designer. Um, I tend to go for a more undesigned look that's put together with collections rather than fabrics.
Speaker 2:Um, but that was fantastic. The house in darling point by linda carey is incredible. It's just. It's when you walk in, your senses are just, your blood pressure just goes up. The same as the Queen Street Willara House. That's two storeys, seven metre atrium with timber beams from the Sydney Fish Wars that were salvaged, 27 sets of antique European doors that were brought in, and again you just breathe out when you go into this place, you just oh that sounds like heaven.
Speaker 2:And then again there was the house in Bellevue Hill that Chloe Matters did and all plaster I think it just sold for $50 million or something or $55 or something. It was the attention to detail and the things that we can all use from that house. It had a lot of built-in bonquette. I think they must have been made in cement, but they were then plastered with just a mattress. Very Greek, that feeling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yep, it was gorgeous, so fun. What about in your own space, melissa? Like what, do you have a favourite room in your own home? No, this so look.
Speaker 2:I always think my places are undesigned. This flat is three bedrooms in Double Bay. It was the cover story. I was surprised it was on the cover. I didn't even know until it'd been on sale for about two weeks. I never in a million years expected it to be on the cover, but they did it last month for the May issue, I think. And I've had it for 20 years. I'd never given it to a magazine because I'd never really thought it was decorated. When the journalist came she said are you kidding? This may not be decorated for you, but it is decorated. You know it's fabulous.
Speaker 2:But I've applied all the aspects that I talk about in my book to this and the reason I bought it was it's's a douglas snelling. He was a 1960s arctic superstar. I'm not a modernist but I like the elements. It's got floor to ceiling windows across the whole northeastern um aspect, so there's a lot. The quality of light is beautiful and it's just. I like places that can be multi-purpose. This I've. You know it's been a crash pad. I lived in the country for 10 years while I had this, but it was a city crash pad. It's been a guest apartment for friends. It's where I have my work studio. I had my grandson's christening here for 40 people. It was like a a day club with you know fabulous.
Speaker 2:I filled it with cakes from Flower and Stone and lovely chicken sandwiches, and we filled all the huge pots on the balcony with ice and champagne and it was just so fabulous and so it showed.
Speaker 3:I want to go to one of your soirees, and it just shows what you and so it's. I want to go to one of your, one of your soirees, and it just shows what you can do with a space.
Speaker 2:If you've got imagination, yes.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much. Melissa. To inspire Exactly For sharing all of those great tips in the book. It is just an absolute joy and it's been so fantastic to meet you and to chat today.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much a very infectious passion for having me I know, I'm so inspired me too, we'll have to meet, I don't know where.
Speaker 2:We'll talk later, but I don't know where? Yes, that'd be amazing and I'd like to you to get I'll get you copies of my living world by design too anyway, thank you natural living by.