Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
The Waitlist That Changed Everything with Luke Fry
What begins as an accidental career path often leads to the most extraordinary destinations. Luke Fry's journey exemplifies this perfectly—originally waitlisted for graphic design, he reluctantly accepted a spot in interior design at Swinburne University, never imagining it would become the foundation for his acclaimed architectural practice two decades later.
Growing up with a builder father and brother, Luke had construction in his blood. "I was on building sites from the day I could walk," he shares, revealing how this early exposure proved invaluable when he later obtained his builder's registration alongside his design qualifications. This rare triple-threat perspective—interior designer, architect, and builder—gives Luke a uniquely comprehensive understanding of the entire project lifecycle.
The conversation reveals fascinating insights into the challenges of documentation, with Luke noting that "a builder's pet peeve is documentation that's not detailed enough." This understanding fundamentally shapes his practice's approach, emphasizing meticulous documentation as both a design tool and crucial contract document. In an era where building regulations have intensified following cladding scandals, these skills have become even more critical.
After eleven years leading his own practice, Luke's perspective on design has matured beautifully. Where aesthetic considerations once dominated, he now finds deepest fulfillment in how spaces transform clients' lives—"their ability to communicate better, to function better, to foster better relationships." This evolution mirrors his practice's growth from primarily residential work to an expanding portfolio including hotels, hospitality venues, and wineries.
Perhaps most revealing is Luke's current rebranding from "Luke Fry Architecture & Interior Design" to simply "Fry"—a change reflecting his desire to spotlight his seven-person team rather than himself. "It's making it a little bit more about the team than it is about me as an individual," he explains, demonstrating the collaborative spirit that has become central to his success.
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If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE DESIGN SOCIETY
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Well, thank you so much, Luke, for meeting with us for the podcast and I guess, as a way of kind of introducing you, I thought I would go back in time. Oh my gosh, how many years has it been, luke.
Speaker 2:I don't know that we should say to be completely honest.
Speaker 3:Give things away 20?
Speaker 1:20 odd years ago. Yeah, 20, 20 odd years ago. Yeah, yeah we actually studied interior design at swinburne together a long time ago. It was like the era even before skinny jeans were a thing.
Speaker 2:That was that long ago it was that long ago, yeah oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:And now skinny jeans are out again. So we've we've gone through many trend cycles.
Speaker 2:Yep, it won't be long and we'll be back there.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So, yeah, we studied together interior design and then you went on to study further, which I love to talk a bit more about, but I guess it's been so cool to see you, know, know, your career just absolutely explode and just to see the beautiful work that you're putting out there. And I think when I first met you, um, I was a mature student, because I was 25 when I started, I think, or was.
Speaker 3:I 22, 21, I was very mature, though I was very old and everyone else was very young, that's so funny.
Speaker 1:But you were always very down to earth, very kind and just really. Yeah, it was like a great group that we had back then and I thought it would be great just to get in touch with you again and yeah, see what's going on. And the funny thing was, you know, I was driving on the way to meet someone yesterday and I saw your name in big font on the hoarding of a renovation. I was like, oh, look at that, there's.
Speaker 3:Luke.
Speaker 1:I'll be chatting to him tomorrow, so you know it's really cool because you study? With the group and then you all go off onto your own things and it's just beautiful to see you know how successful you've been and, yeah, it's a really cool thing. What about you, brie? How do you know? Luke?
Speaker 3:I don't know Luke at all. I've literally just met Luke. I mean, obviously I've had a little look at your work and Lauren has definitely talked you up, as she just did then. So, yeah, I'm super curious. I'm going to be hearing everything for the first time in what you've got to say and who you are. So, yeah, it's actually unusual. I don't think we've actually had someone on that. I don't actually know. So this is a first. Cool Must be good, it's exciting. Yeah, it's always good to meet new people.
Speaker 2:this is a first, cool Must be good. It's exciting, surely? Yeah, it's always good to meet new people. Absolutely Well, I think I mean very kind words, lauren. Thank you, it was a long time ago. A lot's changed since then, you know. We're so married and kids and all that kind of stuff, and it's a stark contrast to what it was back then. But I'm glad to hear that you thought that I was down to earth and all those kinds of things, because I just think I was a little rat bag you know, back then Were you, I can't remember.
Speaker 2:Probably. But yeah, look, a lot has changed. Yeah, I mean, and that group was a lovely group of people that I feel like if you bump into anyone, even today, there's this kind of connection there that's always going to remain. And I don't know that I had that as much with other groups when I was studying. It was a really nice little group that we had, so cool?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is really cool. You often make really core friends then, don't you? In that stage of your life, the college years, we'll call them, yeah?
Speaker 1:It's true, because I think you know in school primary school, high school you're all. Just what you've got in common together is that you're the same age and you're just all lumped together. But I think when you go to university it's like oh, these are my people, we have common interests, and it's not just about we're in the same location, same age. It's kind of nice. So after we did our interior design degree, what did you do after that?
Speaker 2:I continued studying and did architecture after that. So another. I got a year of dispensations, but another four years of study after that.
Speaker 3:So I was at uni for seven years A long time, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, but it was, I felt like it was always meant to be, and that interiors was kind of just the beginning. It was a very it was a natural progression for me, totally, it wasn't a chore or anything like that. Yeah, I feel like it would have been, you know, unfinished if I had just stopped there.
Speaker 3:Fair enough. I love the fact that you're an architect who started in interior design, because I feel like it's usually the other way around if they've become interested in interiors not necessarily move to that, but to have that sort of you know as part of what you do. So that's kind of cool. But why did you choose interiors first, do you think? And then you realised you wanted to do architecture? Like, how did that evolve?
Speaker 2:Good question. I actually didn't apply for interiors at all. I applied for graphic design at Swinburne and you might remember back then the way the courses were structured was that your first year of university was kind of a general year, Like you did classes, you shared classes with graphic designers and industrial designers and whatnot, and the graphic design course was full. So they offered me a position in interiors and said you can transfer at the end of first year and I just decided at the end of first year that I wasn't going to transfer and that was the path I was going to take. And I decided at that point in time that I was going to go on to architecture after interiors. So it was very early on that I kind of made that decision to do it. But rather than finish there and go straight to architecture, it was only an extra year of study, I think, to do both. So that's what I did. That's my story, for you know my uni days.
Speaker 3:So you're an accidental designer, Well.
Speaker 2:I was much more interested in graphics then than I was. You know the built form.
Speaker 3:Do you ever think about, if you had have got into the graphic design course, whether you would have taken a different path, or do you think you still would have ended up back in sort of architectural interiors?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't know one of my cousins one of my cousins, um, is a graphic designer and he was sort of you know, an inspiration to move into that industry. So that's, that's where my interest came from there.
Speaker 1:But um, here we are, you know I know isn't it strange how like those few years when you sort of graduate high school, they're just you know. One little decision can just change your whole course of life. It's kind of wild when you think about it, but am I seeming to remember was your, are your family? Is your dad a builder?
Speaker 2:my dad and my brother are.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, construction's always been a big part of my life, from the day I was born, basically.
Speaker 1:You had no choice. You tried to fight it. You were like I'm going to do graphic design, but the universe, but the fate said no, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:There's probably a psychologist out there, you know, looking at me in terms of nature versus nurture, and has all the answers to that. But it's not like architecture and interiors was foreign to me at all, and more so, obviously, construction. But I was on building sites from you know the day I could walk, basically, and we were building and selling houses and doing all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:So it was all just it's the norm to me yeah, right, yeah, so I guess that's probably informed your practice today, right? So can you tell us a bit about your work and how your practice kind of works?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, we're both architecture and interior design, obviously. Um, our team are both architects and interior designers. Um, we do most of our projects, inclusive of both um disciplines, but don't really see much of a line between the two. Um, but then we will also do, you know, architecture-only projects and interior design-only projects as well. We're collaborating with other architects and other interior designers if that's what the project calls for. Otherwise, we'll just do those services you know, sort of independently as well.
Speaker 1:Great, it's good to have that versatility and, I think, that understanding as well. Yeah, because you know I'm an interior designer, bree's an interior designer, so when we get called in with an architect, you know it's such a collaborative process.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, it's one house, so there is no line between them, but sometimes when we work it's very separate and it can be a little bit jarring. So I think you know for your approach. You know if you're working with an architect, you obviously know what kind of I don't know how they want to collaborate, and that must make it a bit more seamless for them as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I was just going to say what about the building side of things?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I was doing some projects with my dad years and years ago and the idea was floated at that time to do design and construct kind of practice. You know, this was very early early days where we were still sort of finding our feet and exploring things, and in the end that didn't eventuate but I decided to do it myself. So I went and got my builder's registration and started a construction company.
Speaker 2:And yeah, built a couple of projects where I was both the designer and the builder and ultimately, you know that's all wrapped up. Now we're not doing that any longer.
Speaker 1:I was going to say because, like the industry, can't handle a triple threat, You're an interior design architecture and builder. I'm like come on leave some room for the rest of us to get in somewhere.
Speaker 3:You're fluffing cushions too, Luke.
Speaker 2:Which is too much. So the time I had uh, I had one, I had my son was born and then, during these two projects, my daughter was born. Um, you know, they're only 14 months apart, and did you say 14 months?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah wow, okay, because my my daughters are 17 months apart, but that's next level.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's a lot, yeah, and life was just a little bit crazy, yeah, so we gave up on that approach and just looked at you know, really what we were trying to achieve out of it, and looking at ways in which we could still improve our processes, improve project delivery, you know, give our clients better service, better outcomes, uh, all those sorts of things. And and there's there's also an interest from my perspective to do my own projects as well um, so, you know, that's something that we are doing currently, but just not where I am wearing the builder's cap. It's just a different, different approach, because there's, um, you know, you can only do so much you're only one person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how many hats can one person pile on their head?
Speaker 2:that's. That's the age-old question, right before they all start falling off, exactly before it starts to unravel. Yeah, so it's. It's really just the the love of creating, creating buildings and exploring ways in which we can do that. That's been the driving force behind it all, I think, but very glad I did it. It's made me a better architect and a better interior designer as a result, just with broader knowledge, being on that side of the fence as well, better understanding as to what builders go through, what trades people go through, what drives them, and you know the challenges that they face and all those sorts of things. So it's been good.
Speaker 1:Well, I'd love to speak on that a little bit more, if that's okay.
Speaker 1:Like, can you give us some examples of. You know, from a designer's point of view, you know we might prioritize I don't know. A beautiful drawing package, I don't know, Whereas a builder what from that other side, from the builder's side, was there something that you learned that, oh, I know designers think like this but builders don't really care about that? Or I wish that designers gave more of this kind of information. Or how is this going to float in midair with gravity and everything?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I think, like I think, in terms of what builders want versus what designers want, um, I think builders their their pet peeve, if you like, is probably just drawing packages, documentation that's not detailed enough. Um, you know, there's a certain level of documentation that needs to be produced, and producing the level of projects that we want to be producing, that's a lot. You can't get that outcome with limited documentation, and that is just time that needs to be poured into. It is just time that needs to be poured into it. I think, yeah, that's really what I would say would be what most builders would be always wanting, is that more level of detail.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:I think that comes from the designer or the architect setting up the project in the right way from day one, where they need to be educating their client on exactly why that's required and what needs to be put into that in order to get the outcomes that they're after. And I think what a lot of people tend to forget as well is that the documentation packages that we produce end up being contract documents, so that's what your building contract is based upon, it's what you're referencing, and if there's missing information, then that's when things start to unravel on site.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's not just about the end result in terms of how it looks or functions. It can affect that budget as well. Right, if something's missing and it hasn't been quoted properly and the designer or the architect thinks it needs to look like this, but if it wasn't detailed properly, then the builder goes well, no, we didn't allow for it to look like that, we allowed for it to look like this. The assumptions kind of come into play, don't they?
Speaker 2:exactly right. Yeah, and and I think that's something that's probably not communicated well enough in the early stages everyone's very excited to get started and you know going in with optimism and you know energy, and they want to get started, but they're really not thinking as much about the end goal as they should be, and I think clients need to understand that a little bit more as well, that, especially in the last, you know, five years, I would that the level of documentation that's been required and the number of regulation changes that we've seen, that results in just more documentation is pretty staggering, even just for basic compliance.
Speaker 1:So what kind of regulations do you mean that?
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot more scrutiny around details, materials, all kinds of things. It sort of kicked off around about the time when all of the non-compliant cladding and fire issues were happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it has a lot to answer for it does.
Speaker 2:So building surveyors are under a lot more scrutiny. Therefore they are asking for more information.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And more information, and more information.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing, oh definitely, and I mean you can. You know? I think, as you said to your point in the beginning, it's about educating the clients. You know, like we can say to our clients oh, we do like a fixed fee for the design up to design development, and then we quote give a fee proposal for the design, sorry for the construction documentation after that, because we don't know what that is until we've done the design, so can't quote for it before that.
Speaker 1:And they say, oh, but if we take these 3D views to the builder, you know, for this kitchen and bathroom, do you think that we could do that? I'm like you know you could, but you don't know what you're going to get, Like the drawings, yeah, I mean, you just need the documentation because you're quoting, you're getting a quote from the documentation. As you say, it's a contract document and you can't rely on a tiler, for instance, just to use like mind reading skills to know which way you want to have your tiles. You know which direction where the set out is. Like all of these tiny little things, they're just turning into huge big headaches and it simply could be solved in a drawing.
Speaker 1:And actually in my mentor group in the design society I was showing them some documentation and it was just done in layout, sketch up layout, which is very, quite a basic way to do it.
Speaker 1:But it's just knowing how to draw and how to add those details of like oh my God, can you do a course on that Cause? I don't know how to do that because you can. You can wing it only so far, but it's a contract document. You need to be able to know how to dimension and tag and detail. Basically, and I feel like if you have just graduated and you start your own business, there's a huge, big piece of the pie missing. And I feel like I just learned so much when I worked at architecture practice when they taught me how to document correctly.
Speaker 2:It's a rite of passage. I think that we all go through and I don't think it happens in one project either. You know it's something that takes time. You need to fully go through that process, from concept through to construction completion. It's not just something you'll learn necessarily by documenting a project and obtaining a building permit. People who really know how to detail have seen that through and had conversations on site with the joiner or the tiler or the builder or whoever it is, about exactly how that's going to go together, because just because you can draw, it doesn't mean it can be built, or how is it going to be built.
Speaker 1:Well, bree and I, we talked a few weeks ago about our design mistakes and I think you know sometimes you just do have to make the mistakes to go. Oh my gosh, I can't believe that the cabinet makers drawn it like that, but if I see it through their eyes I'm like I know why they did, cause I didn't draw that bit clearly and, um, that was a mistake.
Speaker 2:I think there's also, uh, there's just an understanding that you need to get of their processes as well, like um, uh, you know what are the limitations of the joiner's machinery? How long can you create a desktop, for example, before it doesn't fit on the edging machine?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Yeah, I wouldn't know, I would have no idea. And then you've got to combine that with the limitations of the I can tell you I've pushed the limits on that.
Speaker 3:And combining that with the limitations of the materials too.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, yeah, there's a lot to know, yeah, there of the materials too, right, like Exactly yeah, there's a lot to know, yeah, there's a lot of things that people just you just don't know initially. And until you've gone through it, you know over and over again, you've tested it, you've and even you know, you've visited that joiners workshop or whatever it is you know. I would just encourage anyone you know that's just starting out to get your hands dirty, because that's the way you'll learn and you'll be way more valuable in the long run to the other people that you're working with and you won't be that frustrating designer that they've got to deal with.
Speaker 2:You can actually bring value, bring knowledge, and that's much more part of the collaborative process.
Speaker 1:I love that and it is a collaboration. At the end of the day, we might have a design intent, but I'm not a cabinet maker, so I want to use their knowledge like. Let's put our heads together and figure this out.
Speaker 1:They're across all the latest hardware and you know all the stuff that you don't see, that they just make it look so easy and something just arrives on site like magic, it's like, no, it's been crafted by human hands and like that is. It's not magic, it's like I mean, it feels like it sometimes, but every piece has been, you know, handled and gone through this process that if you don't go to you know, your cabinet maker's factory or your steel fabricator, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you do learn a lot you do yeah, it's, it's, it's it is so I'm curious to know, because you have worked across residential.
Speaker 1:but are there any other sectors that you are working within?
Speaker 2:been a long time coming, but, yeah, it's something that we're doing to start to reflect the scope of projects that we're working on. That people will start to see very soon. And we're really looking to expand beyond residential not that we're turning our back on that. We love it and we'll always do it but a little more variety in our portfolio is what people will start to see very soon. So we've got some hotels, hospitality venues. We are working on a winery at the moment. You know there's a broader spectrum of projects in the works.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's so exciting. So what can you reveal about this? Like, what's the hotel? What's the winery? That's so exciting, so what can you reveal about this? Like, what's the hotel? What's the winery?
Speaker 2:Like, I want to know the first, we've got two, at the moment two hotels. The first one is our project is more of a live music venue, outdoor beer garden, entertainment space, you know, kitchens and bars and all of those sorts of things. It's not accommodation as such.
Speaker 1:Where's this? It's in Torquay Surf Coast oh amazing Because Corey and I we like to go and see live music, don't we Bree? I like wine, I like music, I like the beach.
Speaker 3:We're expecting an invite to the opening. I think is what we're saying yes speech yeah, we're expecting an invite to the opening.
Speaker 2:I think is what we're saying. Yeah, well, it's a, it's about to start construction. Um, it's been a few years in the making, um, so yeah, it's very exciting very exciting that sounds amazing cool.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say um, with those sort of projects coming from residential, do you find that you kind of get to be a bit more creative, I guess, and push the boundaries a little bit more?
Speaker 2:In different ways. Yes, I've been involved in projects like that before starting my own practice, and so have members of the team as well. We've done a lot of, you know hospitality, hotel, you know workplace projects, so it's not unfamiliar to us. But it's nice to be just thinking differently and facing different challenges and, yes, pushing the boundaries, for sure. But it's not to say that we don't get to do that in residential projects, because we certainly don't. It's just different functionalities and different agendas and priorities and all of those sorts of things. So it keeps us, I think it keeps us sharp, and you know, one project informs another, and you know holistically it's making us better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, yeah, like different I mean a whole different brief like a venue, a hotel. You know ultimately they need to turn a profit, whereas if it's a residential home, it's a motive and you're dealing with those. You know that wishlist and trying to fit it within the budget. It must be a totally different type of project and you know you mentioned your team before. How many people have you got in your team?
Speaker 2:We've got seven at the moment.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:So a good number. I don't know about managing many more than that myself, but a good number to be. You know, doing a variety of projects where we can put the If it's a larger project. Or you know, alternatively, we can split that up and take on multiple. You know residential projects, for example, but yeah, it's not something that I ever want to get out of control. In terms of, you know, the team that we've got, it's more about quality rather than the quantity.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, I was going to say you often, or we've had this conversation, but Lauren often talks about the fact that when you have too many people, you sort of stop being a designer or an architect and you become like a manager of people and you sort of lose that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's not why any of us and Seven does seem like a fairly big team yeah. It's not why any of us started in the profession, right, you know? I don't ever want to be not picking up a pen, that's for sure. But yeah, it's funny, things evolve over time. I've had my practice 11 years now and interests and things that drive me have changed over that time well and truly.
Speaker 1:How? So when you started your practice, what did you see it being? And now, where do you want to be in another five years or so time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it started quite accidentally, to be completely honest, just with a friend's project, that I was working at another practice and was offered the opportunity and took it on a whim, basically.
Speaker 1:You started your business on a whim. Pretty much I love it.
Speaker 3:It's always a good foundation.
Speaker 1:I feel like a lot of it starts that way, though right, there was no business plan, let me put it that way.
Speaker 2:It was just an opportunity to do a project. I was interested. I always wanted to work for myself and I just thought, you know, if the project is done and another one you know doesn't come along, I'll go back to practice again for somebody else. But you know, one project turned into another, turned into another, and before you know it, you're, you know, 11 years down the track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I sort of feel quite similar to that, because I think, yeah, I'm probably about 12 or so years of my business and it was. It was just one person reaching out and you know I didn't have a business yet, but you do one project and get it photographed and do all the things and then the next thing, you know, yeah, and I think for me I sort of wanted to work on really big homes and do amazing sort of statement, iconic furniture pieces, decoration, kitchens, bathrooms, everything. And I think my business has evolved a bit too in that I actually find it more fulfilling to work for people that it's really changing their life. Like I know that sounds corny and stuff, but it changes. It's not just about like living in a perfect showroom, it's really you know the family and the kids and their memories. It's like a backdrop for their whole life. It's just really I find that really fulfilling. So, like for you, have you, have your sort of goals been different or changed throughout your sort of business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you realize that after time, where it's more about there's more joy to be had from the end user's experience and whether that's a family, you know their ability to communicate better, to function better, you know to foster better relationships. All of those sorts of things are really rewarding and it's not something that you can explain to someone initially Totally. They've got to live in the home, live in the project for sometimes years before they fully understand that and appreciate that. From a commercial perspective, you know if we're working with another business. You know a hotelier or a developer or whatever. Their drivers are different, but you know there's reward in giving them what they're seeking as well. Yeah, whether that's better operations or more customers or whatever that looks like, you're focused on the end goal and the outcomes and the way you're going to improve somebody's life, rather than the initial process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. Though it is hard to communicate to a client how much they're, you know, speaking for residential, how much their lifestyle is going to change, and you know it does take a while for that to kind of percolate, for them to live in the space, for that to become appreciated. But it's just so fulfilling, like we've been invited to clients' Christmas parties and this kind of thing, and the way they speak about their home, they're so house proud and it's just like really nice. That's not how I really imagined. You just don't know. You just don't know what you don't know, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I think, as designers, when you start in the industry, you're really designing for yourself. You're designing because you have an interest in interiors or in architecture and your university projects, for example, you're effectively the client in a way. You're not getting that fulfillment yet. You're not understanding the impact that you can have on someone's life, and it's not until you've executed some projects and seen it and lived it that that starts to become more of a reality and more of a driver.
Speaker 1:Now, when I looked on your website before, I noticed that you do some work in the Mansfield area. Are you still working in that region?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's where I grew up, in the high country. Oh, cool so that's my wife and I and our kids. We went and moved up there for a year during COVID.
Speaker 3:Oh, like so, many.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because Melbourne was such a lovely place to be at that time, so we were doing some projects up there on Mount Bulla, in Mansfield itself and the surrounding area. But yeah, I think regional projects will always have a place for us. We're probably doing about 50% of projects at the moment outside of Melbourne or outside of the capital city. I should say, as opposed to you know, yeah, the other half being inner city. So we're not really limited by location. We're driven by, you know, the desired outcome, rather than where it is or what the budget is, for example.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, if somebody was to ask you well, maybe me, if I was to ask you, how would you describe your design aesthetic or your design ethos?
Speaker 2:Just to put you on the spot. It's really hard, isn't it? I know Thanks. How would you describe your design aesthetic or your design ethos?
Speaker 1:Just to put you on the spot. It's really hard, isn't it? I know, thanks Could have put that in the question. Little PDF thing we had there.
Speaker 2:It is a hard question to answer because, contextually, projects vary so much Whether that's a renovation to an inner city property or it's a new build in a rural or coastal setting. There's different drivers, there's different things that you need to work with in terms of existing conditions versus materiality and other factors, so it's difficult to really define. But I think we're detail driven, um, we love texture and tactile spaces, um, and and love sort of minimal detailing and things like that. Um, I think if you were to look at our website today, you would probably see a lot of neutral, sort of monochromatic type spaces. Um, but that's changing. You know projects that we've got um that are under construction or about to be photographed, uh, a stark contrast to that oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Has that been driven by a client or?
Speaker 2:uh, it's been driven by by us, by clients, by, you know, things just changing over time, just evolving, just evolving, yeah. So I think, moving forward, people will see a lot more variety from us in that respect.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And yeah, just having a bit more fun with it, that's cool, you know it's interesting what you said before about you know the projects that you do during university and I remember feeling quite stuck sometimes because you don't have that parameter of a client.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of like you know, you seem like you're quite responsive. You're responsive to the client, you're responsive to the site, responsive to all of those things, and then you pull it all together in a very beautiful, considered way. But I think that is a great design ethos to have as well. I'm assuming if you've evolved and you've changed, it's not just one, you get this. It's not like one cookie cutter you get that, you will get the sort of same version of that. So I think that's that's a great kind of design ethos, great way to be.
Speaker 2:I think keeping it fluid is a part of what keeps it exciting. I don't really want to do the same thing twice, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, there's details and things that we do that we know work well. Of course, we have typical door jam details and things like that, because that's something that's been refined over time, but ultimately, we like to take each and every project on its own merits and work to a custom brief that creates a unique outcome.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, bree, I've banged on about this so often, about the idea of timelessness, and I'm just like why? Why should it always stay the same, like stuck in a time, which time, like I think it's natural for us to evolve and change and, you know, explore new ideas and keep things exciting. The way we live changes, so why should our space be stuck in one time? So, yeah, I think that's that really resonates with me, that kind of idea as well. Um, I'm curious, uh, though, do you see any sort of common pitfalls like that designers fall into that, um, coming from the builder perspective, or even you know interior designers working with an architect, because you sort of work across those three, you know building interiors and with an architect, because you sort of work across those three, you know building interiors and architecture? Are there sort of some kind of pitfalls that we can avoid that just make everything kind of flow a bit better?
Speaker 2:It's a good question.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Tell us all of the secrets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's other designers. One thing that's important when you're collaborating on a project and I think everyone listening would agree with this if they've experienced it is that the documentation package is done by one person, so you don't have two documentation packages that aren't coordinated, because that will just there'll be gaps and there'll be things that don't align. I think in the projects that we've done where we've collaborated with other designers, it's always been the final documentation package has been handled by one practice, usually the architect. Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1:I mean even things like when you're drawing the interiors. So I draw the interiors in terms of joinery, you know kitchens, bathrooms, that type of thing. But I have a building designer. He submits the plans and everything to council and we work together on quite a few projects. So we kind of know what's going on. But you know it's things like electrical and coordinating that with the joinery. You can see those kind of slip-ups happening where it's not.
Speaker 1:They're not speaking to each other. So that's one kind of, that's one pitfall. I can think of coordinating with the engineers drawings, you know, making sure that everybody is putting the columns in, or whatever, in the right place.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think that's one thing that comes to mind yeah, I think the other thing that I'd be curious about is when there's budgets to meet, when you collaborate and across where the money goes. I guess, because, as Lauren said before, it's still one project and usually there's like this kind of overall budget.
Speaker 2:And even when you break it down, I know if I'm looking after something, I still massage that around from one area to another to make it work. How does that work when you're collaborating? I think that comes back to there being a lead consultant that's responsible for that and really establishing from day one who is responsible for what. Either it's the architect and the interior designer is responsible more for design direction and things like that, or perhaps there's a project manager, somebody independent, a third party, that's responsible. I mean, it depends on the situation, but it's establishing clear roles and responsibilities that'll get the desired outcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And which kind of leads me to sorry. I was thinking the other thing. When you're collaborating and I guess would help if you have a non-biased person kind of leading everything is, what do you do when there's disputes over things, as, in the way something needs to look Like? I guess you try and start out by collaborating with people who are like-minded and have the same, you know, end goal and idea, but surely there must be times when there's a clash and who's sort of the deciding factor?
Speaker 2:Yes, Good question. I don't really know how to answer it. It's.
Speaker 3:Have you had it happen?
Speaker 2:before. Not really, I mean yes, but nothing that can't be resolved.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I think, leave your ego at the door and, you know, sit down with eyes wide open and try to reach a resolution, but it depends on what it is.
Speaker 3:I guess it sort of ends up being a bad collaboration if it gets to that point I guess A good one is talking it out and you end up with a great resolution that maybe is better than what both of you thought separately. So a good collaboration is those two ideas come together and you actually get something better than what it was individually, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it has to be. Otherwise there's no point in collaborating If you're just two individual groups approaching a project and you're not getting a better outcome. Well, what's the point? Because there's plenty of practices out there doing architecture and interiors who can deliver the project holistically, without the argument.
Speaker 1:Don't you think it's like so much about communication? Like, yeah, yes, we design, but I have really tried to lean into more that client service and really try to provide a great client service. And sometimes it's not always about perfect documentation or I mean not necessarily the best design. Some clients don't want the best design, whatever that means. Like it's about having a great experience with that client. And even, you know, I had a client over for a meeting last week and she was here for two hours and she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, Next meeting we'll try to be quicker.
Speaker 1:I'm like, no, this is lovely, this is the service I'm actually providing, which is I think she's a great woman because she's a really cool entrepreneur, so we could chat for two hours, which we always do. But yeah, it's interesting how I've actually really relaxed on that and I've leaned into providing that client service. I've got another client who's a lawyer. She does not have two hours to sit and chin wag with me. She's like a criminal. What is she? A prosecutor? No, she's a defender. She defends like criminals. Anyway, she's just like very, very busy person. Like you have to kind of then adjust your service to that type of client as well. Like I will meet her at, you know, 3.30 and I'm out of there at 3.35 because she's got to be in court or whatever. So, yeah, it's so much more of the client experience but also the design. I think, yeah, you can do a great design, but if the client's not enjoying the experience, then you sort of haven't lived up to that end as well.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's interesting. I think that's a lesson that everyone has to learn, because I think most people probably start off with this ideal scenario where they're the designer and it's sort of their vision and those sorts of things, and I think it's very unrealistic and it takes time executing projects and seeing them all the way through before you fully appreciate that and and understand that relationship better. Um, because really it's about them and their outcome, their desired outcome, and giving them that experience.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, for me, it's been such a great part of our practice is just the cool people we get to work with. You get an insight into their world and it's yeah, I find that really interesting as well. So what's coming up with you next, luke? What's going on?
Speaker 2:Good question. Well, these new projects which are very exciting. We've got a new office on the way, which is also good.
Speaker 1:Oh great, Where's that going to be? Brighton which is also good, oh, great.
Speaker 2:Where's that going to be? Brighton, oh, great, so closer to home for me, yeah. And the rebrand I mean getting that out is going to be, yeah, really exciting. It's been a long time coming and something that we're, yeah, really looking forward to.
Speaker 1:And how has that experience been getting that going Like, what does it include?
Speaker 2:Like a new logo, et cetera, et cetera, everything it's everything Refined name, new branding, new website, new domain name, new everything yeah.
Speaker 3:Can you say what the name is yet, or is it too early to reveal?
Speaker 2:We're just going to Fry, oh cool. Just as a brand, if you like, love it. Yeah, dropping my first name, obviously, making it a little bit more about the team than it is about me as an individual, and just recalibrating, I think, and getting clearer on the message that we're sending out and describing who we are and what we do.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah it's, it's all. It was something that you know I don't think was ever really done to this level when we first started. We've been working with sly studio on the rebrand um, and that's been that's been really eye-opening, really rewarding and and being the client for once is yeah, really really weird experience.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting to see how they do their onboarding and stuff yeah, yeah, like oh, I'm being onboarded now like exactly right, it's weird being on the other end of the conversation.
Speaker 2:It actually teaches you a lot, I think. Yeah, so that's that's us, you know, in the foreseeable future and just trying to, you know, constantly sort of push the boundaries and and explore new things and do projects in different locations. You know, constantly sort of push the boundaries and explore new things and do projects in different locations, and you know we've got interstate projects now and it's, yeah, just whatever keeps us, you know, excited and gets us out of bed in the mornings.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Love that. I've loved catching up. It's been 20 or so years. Hopefully won't be another 20 or so years.
Speaker 3:No, we'll see you at the talkie event. Totally.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, hopefully Christmas We'll see.
Speaker 1:Exciting Love it.
Speaker 2:Fingers crossed, but yeah, very exciting.
Speaker 1:So good, Luke. Thank you so much for the chat.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me. Thanks, Luke. Thank you Bye.