Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
Design Mistakes: Admitting Our Interior Design Fails
Join us for a candid and entertaining exploration of the funny and humbling side of interior design as we share our biggest mistakes and the lessons they taught us. From disastrous color choices in children's rooms to the importance of careful client involvement, we cover a range of design fails that all professionals face at some point in their careers. By recounting our blunders, we hope to inspire and educate aspiring designers about the realities of the profession and the invaluable insights that come from mistakes.
As we discuss how to avoid the pitfalls of over-promising or under-quoting and the need for strong communications with tradespeople, we reflect on essential tips for navigating the design landscape. We also delve deep into the psyche behind colour selection and its impact on a space, aiming to provide listeners with practical advice they can apply to their future projects. Through light-hearted and humorous storytelling, it serves as a reminder that design is a journey filled with growth through vulnerability.
If you enjoy our discussions, we encourage you to connect with us through social media, share your own experiences, and join in on the conversation about the ups and downs of design. Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and engage with us as we continue to demystify the world of interior design!
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If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
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Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers me, brie Banfield and me, lauren Lee, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. And today we are it's just us and we are going to be talking about interior design fails, but only the ones that we're happy to admit to, exactly, because otherwise this episode would probably go for a while. No, and we have to. You know, you've got to put on the front a little bit, right, we are professionals, we are experts, there's no doubt about that, but everybody makes mistakes and sometimes you just don't know what you don't know, as you like to say, lauren, until you go. Hang on, actually, that's not quite right, and I've learned something. So it's all about learning. Mistakes are all about learning, right, exactly, and I mean with what we do, with interior design, styling, decorating there's just so many moving parts and you're just dealing with, sometimes, a property that's like over 100 years old. There's unforeseen things that happen, and not to mention all of the different people that we need to rely on to make our vision come true. Yes, but education is the key here, right? Because if we're talking about our mistakes, then maybe you won't make the same ones I don't want you to make the same mistakes. Why should you? Hopefully, exactly. We can kind of learn from each other. And yeah, it is kind of vulnerable to talk about the mistakes you've made because you don't want to come across as an idiot. No, no, totally. Yeah, no, you know we're talking with friends here, so we'll be all right. Yes, that's right. We'll keep it all amongst ourselves, won't we? Totally. Thanks, thanks everyone.
Speaker 1:Before we get started, I just wanted to remind you guys that if you're an interior designer and you want a bit of support in your business, you want to grow. You've got big ambitions and this is the year you want to make it happen. I'd love to help you in the conversation circle. There is a little link in the notes If you want to join. We're starting off in May and we're going to a small group of emerging designers, a small group of established designers. It's going to be great. What have you got coming on? Bree? Too many things, yeah, I know, but same thing. Jump into the show notes. There's a link there. Sign up for a newsletter from me.
Speaker 1:We're going to be sending out regular trend information, which is always fun, and just news about what offers we've got going in terms of our collections that we'll be releasing soon, which are pre-selected decor for different rooms to make it easy for you to create amazing spaces on a budget. Yeah, and more, I'm sure. So smart. Well, I mean, it would be rude of us not to mention that we are going to Paris and Milan for Milan Design Week. So rude, so rude, so sorry. We haven't really mentioned it that much, but we kind of put the word out to do a design tour and actually we filled the spots pretty quickly and we're going to do a design tour and actually we filled the spots pretty quickly and we're going to do it again. So if you want to come with us see gorgeous interiors, fill your inspiration cup, um, we'd love to hear from you. So maybe we should pop another little link in there. You can pop your name down on the list, yeah, yeah, and we'll be opening that wait list soon for next year and obviously follow us on socials lauren's, mine and design anatomy. Those are all in the show notes as well, and you can see what amazing things we get up to, which you're going to want to be there next year. Oh my gosh, it'll be not one of us out. The amount of beautiful spaces we're going to see. You'll be like, okay, that was cute in the beginning, but oh my god, I can't take any more of it, I've got to mute them. Well, you know, you could mute us or you could just come along for the next one. That's right and we really love to. You know, it's about having a really small group. We don't want to make it feel like a school excursion, so we want to get to know everyone and anyway, it's going to be so great. Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to it. Same. Shall we talk about our topic? Yeah, let's do it all right.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, um, one of my first big design mistakes was I had um graduated at RMIT. I did interior design and decoration. I worked for a interior decorator. I was, uh, down on the Mornington Peninsula and it was a wild experience, isn't it funny when you look back and you go, I don't really think my boss knew what she was doing. Oh my God, I hope people don't say that about me. Oh no, well, shit, I was only 20. I think I turned 21,. You know, during that time. So I sure didn't know what I was doing. You know I had this qualification. So you know that takes you, that gets you a foot in the door, doesn't it? And that's probably after that. That's where all the learning really starts.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, we had this client. We had chosen, you know, fabrics, wallpapers and furniture and everything decoration. And then there was the son's room and the the um, my boss said why don't you go and do that one? So we chose out a gorgeous wallpaper and I thought what you would do is have a wallpaper as a feature wall and you just pick out a color in that wallpaper to paint the rest of the walls like. It sounds good in theory, right, but when that color that I chose out of the wallpaper was a shade of blue, it's like facebook blue, like it was so intense, you know the button and it was like vibrating. The room was like so bright it was not.
Speaker 1:You know, I think this is what one of my big lessons was how do you want the space to feel? Yes, and such a good lesson too. Yeah, it's not just about coordinating, is it? You've got to think a little bit further about those colours that you're putting together. Definitely, you know, in theory it sounds like the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:Pick out a colour from the wallpaper that you like, but for a I think it was like a toddler. It is a very energising space to be in, bouncing off the walls Exactly, I don't know. You know, now I have a four, a three-year-old boy. Um, the last thing I want him to do is feel really energized. You know like, oh, they've already got so much energy, I don't need to add to that. So you want their bedroom exactly to be a space for sleep, for rest, and, you know, to hold their toys and things like that. You know they usually don't really play in their bedrooms, but it's a place for rest.
Speaker 1:So how can we think about that? And I mean in terms of mistakes to make repainting a room. It's not the worst mistake, it's not too bad. The impact is shocking when you see a room that's painted in the wrong color. But it's really a cost of labour at $100 of a cost of a tin of paint, kind of fixer-upper. I feel like when those things happen and even though you know you can fix it because lots of small things happen, I find it's still.
Speaker 1:I think the scary bit is people losing faith in you. So that's probably my. It's's not. The fear is almost not about, um, the cost or what we need to do to fix it. I mean, that is obviously a factor we do not want to have to spend thousands of dollars to fix a mistake, but it's the whole, like how it reflects on you, like I feel like that's what gets to me more.
Speaker 1:And even, yeah, no, go. Well, I was gonna say even yourself, like as a 20 yearold making a mistake like that, I was like can I even do this? Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I guess I feel like a lot of you know, when I get asked about advice for students who are studying now, I always say go work for people, because I think we do come out of school thinking we know everything and we can just start a business. And I think it's really hard and people forget that you are on your own and you might just like make that mistake and you don't have someone, even just like like if you had been working closer, maybe with even who you were working for, they really should have picked it up right, they should have gone. Oh, yeah, maybe, maybe not that blue, maybe this one like exactly, you need the sounding boards.
Speaker 1:I feel, yes, um, I'm trying to think of where I and this is not me big noting myself, but I don't have like an example of um choosing the wrong color. I don't know, maybe I've just always been so good at it that is so, so wanky. No, I don't have a great example of oh my, like walking into space and going oh my god, that's not what I thought it would be or that's the wrong thing. It's more, if I've chosen something for myself, I think, and then I paint it and I don't not like it, I'm just like, oh, maybe it should have been this, and that's just indecision, I think, and knowing too many options. Yeah, oh, yeah, god. Yeah, I painted my stubby not that long ago and I've already got A4s on the wall because I want to change it and it was only like, well, it was about a year ago and I'm like I need to change it. It's only a small room, it's fun, it's easy. I know it's easy to just like, you know, on a weekend, right, yeah, but I think another one that's sort of to do with paint.
Speaker 1:But more about calculation. Math is not my strong point, particularly in like detailed things, like I need to check them, check them, check them again. But I feel like wallpaper, don't try and work it out. I mean, some people they get it, they know it, they can work it out. It is so complicated, you know, like the drop, the repeat. I mean I think it's complicated. There'll be someone out there going. It's not complicated at all. What are you talking about? And I feel like I almost am certain to get it wrong and have before and I've worked out how to fix it, because, of course, guess what Wallpaper's out of stock, can't get more of it, and also they don't really want you to use a different dialogue, right?
Speaker 1:Because if you've got, like you know, five roles in this and there's another one that's in ever so slightly different dialogue and they've got a match, that's when you really notice it. You'll notice the join. So, yeah, that one wasn't a complete disaster. But I just know that I can't trust myself to do that and know that I'm going to get it right. The experts need this is where you go.
Speaker 1:Okay, I now will not order wallpaper unless it's literally the person who's going to be installing it saying this is how much we need, and they always ask for more than I think I know. I think anybody who says that being able to estimate the amount of wallpaper is easy. They don't know what it is, or there's some kind of math genius, I don't know Exactly. When you've got like a 75 or something centimeter pattern repeat, you know it's almost like you end up throwing out half of the roll of paper. It's crazy. It actually is quite expensive. And some wallpapers are expensive to begin with you know all the really beautiful ones, and then you feel like you've got to buy extra, almost just in case as well, and there's always just this sort of wastage. So then you should come up with a better system for that, surely. Surely there is one. How long before you've been wallpapering for, if not hundreds of years, wrong? I guess this is the best we can do. I don't know. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:Um, I've had a lesson that I have learned the hard way. You know, when you try to involve everybody well, I do I try to involve the family in their home and say to the 15-year-old son what do you like? Oh, my God, he does not care. So I designed this beautiful room. We all absolutely loved it. At the end we were like, oh my gosh, that room is like one of our favorite rooms.
Speaker 1:This fabric we chose for the drapes and the this and the that. And anyway, I said to I, I said to him he could choose his desk chair color. So I gathered all of the blue fabrics that I had and he chose one and it was a bright blue. I was like, oh cool. And then we got it in and we were like, no. I was like the client was like I don't really think that goes. I was like, oh, it doesn't really does it. And I was like, oh he, I didn't say to the client, oh well, your son chose it. Like that was my stupid mistake to let him even choose it. Like, yeah, so, um, I think sometimes you know, in the spirit of trying to get everybody to collaborate, like that's and everything, but they don't.
Speaker 1:If they could have done it themselves then I wouldn't be there. So we also I shouldn't have presented some options that were probably not 100% going to be right, because I don't disagree with involving particularly. I think it's like a bit of ownership over their spaces, so letting them choose, but it's not about and I think, a lot of ownership over their spaces, so letting them choose, but it's not about and I think a lot of designers have probably been through this where they go, oh, let's get them involved and give them too many choices, or they kind of lean towards something that's like, no, that's not it. So, yeah, you need to be going. These are three that I would actually use. These are the only three I'm going to show you no overwhelm. It's between these three and unless they're going, no, I want purple and these are green or whatever. Yeah, I've actually even done that. This is the people pleaser in me. I think I've even done that with an actual client where they weren't like I was steering them in the right direction.
Speaker 1:This is the color. It was a, I think, a sofa fabric. This is what we need to do. Um, but then they maybe that one was too expensive. So you know, like it's the perfect color, it's perfect, but it's a little bit out of budget. So then you've got to try and re-find the exact same, and you never can. The expensive one is always going to be the one that's right. Um, but I made the mistake of, I think, showing her one to show her how it didn't work, because she kept saying, but what about this color?
Speaker 1:And I'd be like I don't think it works. And so I found one that was the color she was asking for and I went see, now I'm just showing you this to show you how it doesn't work. And she went oh no, that's the one I want, I love it. Oh my gosh, no, that wasn't. Yeah, that's not how that was supposed to go. You were supposed to see why it didn't work and I was proving my point. It was a few years ago now, but I can't actually remember what she ended up with. I'm not sure if it was that one exactly, because I think I ended up kind of coming back to it on a different day and just going sorry, I've been thinking about this and I really don't think it's right. And I think they did eventually listen to me. But, yeah, maybe don't show them stuff. Because you don't show them stuff, because, well, that you don't want them to you. It's such a delicate to prove a point exactly. Oh, it's so hard. And, um, another sort of mistake that I made, which is, I mean it's so hard when you want to let the client do things. Well, I mean let them. It's their home, so, yeah, you want them involved, you want to be collaborative, collaborative, and if they.
Speaker 1:I did a decorating project for a client and I love her. She's so cool. She's always dressed like really maximalist, like beautiful colors and fabrics and patterns. She's just gorgeous and the house is amazing. So I put together the design concept Great. And she had an upholsterer that she had used before. She's like can we work with him? I was like, sure, okay. So we had this design for the bed heads and I, you know, had a 3D render, had some reference images to say this is what it's going to look like. The house wasn't built yet, so it's not like I could go on and measure. The space wasn't built yet, so it's not like I could go in and measure the space. So, anyways, as it went on, um, she had her upholsterer come out when the walls had been all plastered up. They measured.
Speaker 1:I wasn't asked to come to that meeting because she wanted to work with her upholsterer. Um, can you sort of see a few red flags? So I was like, okay, that's fine. Um, and I said to the upholsterer you know, this is the design, you know this is the fabric. You can order the fabric, you can work with the client and make that happen. So, anyway, that's all good, they're off doing the bed heads.
Speaker 1:I wasn't part of it and then we've had the wallpaper come in and he's papered up the walls's looking so stunning. And the client calls me up and says what about powerpoints? How are we going to access the powerpoints when the bed head runs wall to wall? And I was like, oh my god, like I don't know and I'm trying to somehow fix this problem. But I wasn't involved with the making. I didn't't order anything, I didn't do anything.
Speaker 1:So I think when I look back I really should have said I don't know. As I said, it's hard. You know the client, she enjoyed the process of the decoration and everything. But you know, essentially that is an area of expertise that we have that I should maybe share with her. Yeah, you would have said straight away okay, we need. You know, either the PowerPoints have got to come to the front or you've got to have the cutout etc. Which is just sort of a no-brainer. But it's funny like the upholsterer kind of should have known that. I know, I know, and we were sort of like scrambling, saying, oh, where can we move the PowerPoints? Do we move them up? I'm like it's just been wallpapered, the room's just been wallpapered. Oh, no, of course, and I mean this guy is a very experienced upholsterer, so it must have somehow slipped through the gaps there.
Speaker 1:I feel like that guy is on a podcast right now talking about the mistakes he's made in the past, and so he's talking about how he accidentally did that. Do you think that he would own up to that, though? He's talking about how he accidentally did that. Do you think that he would own up to that? Though Only in a podcast where he said it's just between the people listening, don't pass it on. Exactly, I'm sure that's happening. So I mean, it's just really disappointing when those things with a project you put the design but you're not engaged to follow through with procurement and following through with everything. It's such a good point.
Speaker 1:And then I feel like I've had this happen before where exactly the same thing, you've left them to do all the ordering, um, and something just isn't quite right. Or they ordered like the wrong size and like rugs, for instance, the wrong size rug, oh, that's the worst. Um, and coming on site to sort of finish something off or see it and go um, so that's, that's not right. Like why, oh, that one was like a little bit cheaper, we thought it would be fine, and they usually realize once it's there that it's not fine and that they should have listened, especially when it's taken three months for that rug to be made. That too right? Oh yeah, if it's custom, even worse, measure and measure again. And what do they say? Like measure, measure twice, cut once. I'm very bad at those things.
Speaker 1:Yes, I remember when I worked for this decorator. It was such a, as I said, you know, it was a bit of a disaster at the time. There are a few mistakes that I saw happen. Another one was ordering a toilet suite for a client and I never knew. I never knew this.
Speaker 1:I was learning all these things. I didn't know what an S trap was or a P trap, but I learned that day because obviously the wrong one had been ordered. So you know things like that and you're just like I don't understand. They're like well, the S trap that goes to the floor and the P goes to the wall, is that right? Yeah, I think so. Hang on, yes, p? Oh God See, I would be looking that up every time. That's the stuff that I don't know off the top of my head because, as we said before, there's so many things we need to know. I can't possibly. I mean, there are people that can. I'm just not one of those people.
Speaker 1:I rely on the experts as well to check you know, specs and things like that. This is why we love architectural reps. They look after us, they know their product, they are worth their weight in gold. That's my go-to, I agree. Like as if we could know all the ins and outs of a toilet, of what's inside a tap, of how we drain.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, my sort of similar example of that and actually it's a recent one was doing a renovation, so existing house sort of bungalow, and I ordered new door hardware for for inside. There's only one option. I'm looking at this low and co great handles. Okay, yeah, perfect, order them all. They're on site. They've been on site for ages too. Um, you know, you order them and make sure they're there.
Speaker 1:And then I'm getting messages from the client going apparently it's the wrong because I wasn't there when they were installing. It's the's the wrong length. I'm going how? I don't understand what you're talking about and it's to do with the length of the latch. So because they're existing doors, there's like I think the standard is 45 mil off the top of my head, but you can get 60 mil to fit to retrofit. That's more common, maybe in the past, but because there was no option when I ordered them, it just didn't. I just didn't click, I just went. Well, they're all standard, you just order these and they just fit. I've just never had it happen before where that's been the case and I was trying to think back to the million and one times I've specified door hardware and whether it's something I've just forgotten or just never come across having to think about what size, what length the latch is, anyway. So that was a new thing for me and I ended up just having to order new latches.
Speaker 1:That went inside there. But boy, that was like a just kind of makes you look like you don't know what you're doing and it's just this small little thing that you just went. Well, I just honestly didn't know. Well, I don't know what you're doing and it's just this small little thing that you just went. Well, I just honestly didn't know. Well, I don't even know. To be honest with you, I don't even know what a latch is. Is that the bit that's on the skinny side of the door, on the edge, the bit inside? So the bit that kind of pokes out and closes and like stops the door from opening. Okay, so there's the, there's a plate that covers oh my god, my God, see, like you just learn something every day. So it's the internal distance. So I think it affects, like where you drill the hole, basically. So if there's already holes in the door, you kind of want to match it, not do. Yeah, so complicated, I know right, so complicated, too many things, yes, keeps it interesting. I know Another fun one for back in this place where I worked was that Is this the same place as well?
Speaker 1:It's the same place. Seriously, that's funny. You know she had big dreams, I think, of, you know, being an interior designer, decorator. But I think that again, you know, and when I was 20, she was probably my age 45. I thought she was so wise and knew all these things. And you know it's your boss, so you're not going to question them or anything Exactly, but I just, like always saw some kind of mistakes and stuff happen.
Speaker 1:Another one was curtains too short. Oh God, that's the worst, the worst, you can't really fix that. Oh God, that's the worst, you can't really fix that. Well, I don't know what they did, but you know it really nailed home that soft furnishings is an area of expertise. Just because you can wave around a measuring tape, it doesn't mean that you can order a curtain. So they were ordering direct to a workroom and I don't do that. I think that probably scared me for life seeing those curtains just be too short off the floor. I don't.
Speaker 1:As you said, maths is not your strong point, it's not mine either. Yes, I don't like measuring stuff either. It's not mine either. So we use Barlow and Hunt, they're called. So Beck comes out, we talk about the window. She comes out. We talk about the window. We talk about the heading. Yeah, we talk about the fabric. How is that going to drape? What kind of backing? How full, like all these different things.
Speaker 1:And they also think of things that maybe you hadn't thought of, as in even design wise, where they go well, what about if you did this? And you go, oh, I haven't thought of that. So, like, I like that interaction and collaboration, and sometimes I go, what about you do this? You go, no, no, this is what I want, but it just opens your I don't know mind to other things and you do learn it. But I prefer not to have to think about that and I can focus on something else right, I can focus on, you know, making sure the room looks amazing and not exactly what stitching or header or whatever it is to use.
Speaker 1:But some people love that side of it, like I know designers who excel in, you know cushion styles and piping and all of that stuff and they're just really good at it and they know what works and they know exactly what to spec, whereas I get scared every time that I'm going to get it wrong. Especially the cost of some of these fabrics get it from, especially the cost of some of these fabrics. It is eye watering and the thought, yes, of you know snipping that fabric too short, never to be attached properly again, like yeah, it can be this tiniest difference too with that stuff. Like absolutely, yeah, I'm a, I'm a. I mean, I still do the measuring. Don't get me wrong, I'm not like that, I'm not terrible at it. I just like to really really make sure it's right and I used to do. You know, when I was doing commercial work, I used to have to measure like whole empty floors of buildings. So I had to get that right. Imagine, like going to do the fit out and then going actually you've got it. Like a metre off, you can out and then going. Actually you got it like a meter off. You can't fit these three workstations or whatever it is. So I have, you know, I just feel the pressure of it. I have that hasn't changed. It's that risk and that responsibility that you take on. But also you can take it on by yourself, but there are checkpoints that you have in place. So you know I was the same, you know I was the same, you know from that commercial background. But you know it would be going out with the joiner or whoever it is, and they will do their check measure too. And again, it reminds me of another fail from that same place I worked at. Oh God, this is a great place.
Speaker 1:I know this furniture maker. He's a fantastic furniture maker. He's still down on the Mornington Peninsula, nick his name is. He was like are you sure that that sofa's going to fit? Because it was a four-meter long sofa, that's a big sofa. Yes, we're sure. Yes, we're sure and we. How nice of him to ask to. I think he just knew a little bit what my boss was like. She's got the too. I think he just knew a little bit what my boss was like. She's got the reputation I know. And he saw me, just like this 20 year old, this clueless girl, and he was like are you sure, because I'm going to make it four meters long, can you get access? Yes, will it fit? Yes, because we were given the floor plans. Anyway, as it turned out, there, there, it was right near the end of a staircase and they had to build one extra step, which meant the sofa did not fit.
Speaker 1:So you, when I think, when you just see that stuff when I was 20, it just leaves such an impression that you check, check, check, get somebody else to check one too, like, all right, yeah, that is an easy one to forget about, especially new designers. Take heed, upstairs, or even sometimes on a ground floor, if there's a tricky bend, it's like hallways, and if you've got a, if you've got to turn into a hallway, uh, into a room and say bedhead, for instance, so say, um, when you said before you can have a big, wide bed head, that's like the whole length of the wall. You have to have that made in pieces. It's not. You're going down a hall unless you can turn it up on its end or something. Most of the time you can't get around that corner. So yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:That's that stuff freaks me out too, especially new builds I find really stressful because you're relying on the floor plan. You're kind of like trying to like physically go okay, I'm pretending I'm in that space. I mean you can mathematically do it, but I much prefer to be there and be able to go, like I can tell it's not going to fit and then measure it. So your instinct's kind of kicking but off the floor plan, thinking about I don't know. It could just be like you don't realize there's a bulkhead or there's a bulkhead or there's a handrail. Like you're looking at stairs on a floor plan and you're going, oh, that's fine, it's this wide, but you don't realize there's going to be a handrail there. I'm sure I've had that happen with something. It worked out, but it was like freaking out, going. Oh, my god, the handrail didn't take that into account.
Speaker 1:Yeah, access, I find, is a it's a scary one. It's a scary one because it's an easy one to forget about, but sometimes with access it is mind over matter With our studio, like just wishing it'll work and it has to work. So with our studio, we had a studio on Chapel Street. We ordered this beautiful big table from Hub and they delivered it and it was, yeah, it was up. You know, it was on the top of it, it was the top above a shop, yeah, so they had to use an external staircase, you know this old Victorian building. And then they had to turn at 90 degrees. They're like it's not going to fit. I said, yes, it is it fit? Were you actually inside going? Oh my God, or were you really confident? I'm like you just have to make it fit. I have to have that table and it somehow fit. But you know what was weird when we left that? Because we packed up that studio during COVID. No, we got it out easily. It's funny. But sometimes actually also and again it'll be something to do with mathematics Sometimes you can go, yep, that goes in and it's actually impossible to get it out. It's just an angle thing or something, or something about it's got to go the other direction. I don't know, I've had that happen before, I'm sure, but it is a good lesson. Access, who would have thought? Definitely For sure.
Speaker 1:I think one of my other big mistakes is over promising and under delivering in a time frame, because sometimes when you're talking to a client and they're like oh, we know, just need this, just need that. Always put the word just in front of everything. You're like oh yeah, we just do that in two weeks, but it takes a long time sometimes Well, all the time really, because for me I need to get familiar with the client, ask them a lot of questions, and sometimes I need to let it percolate and whilst I'm researching and I find ideas and it's, you know, sometimes you can just sort of turn that on and sometimes you have no choice to Definitely. I completely understand that it wouldn't be beneficial for the project just another week. I think it's worth saying that too.
Speaker 1:If you get to that point, right is like look, it's nearly there, but I'm just not quite happy with it. I think that's a fair point and I guess it's harder for people who aren't creative to understand that, because your creativity it's sort of there, it's always there under the surface. But there's times when you're really on and when you really just have the inspiration, particularly for that project, and there are times where you're really pushing hard to get it and you know that it's just it could be better. But you need that, that moment where you go ah yes, that's it, that's the thing. That's what's missing and you can't just go. I'm gonna do that. It just happens right.
Speaker 1:I agree, for me it's in the shower and I love the way you just said that you know to say to a client it's just not quite there yet. I mean, I think in a way it almost shows that you really care, yeah, and you just want it to be the best it can be. Yeah, absolutely yeah, and I think obviously everybody likes things to be done in a certain time frame or they they've got ideas about when they want something finished. I think that one of the biggest things for any project, even a project that's running really smoothly and seems to be going really well I feel like you should always just be prepared for whatever you think timeframe it's going to be. It's probably going to be more, particularly when you get to kind of like the trades and the building and and now especially with um, you know, in australia and in particular in melbourne, where we are, I can't predict the length of time it's going to take just to get a trade on a job, and you might want to work with this particular joiner and he's booked out for six months, but you're not finished the drawings yet. So you can't even get him involved yet and he kind of knows it's coming, but you can't book him because you don't have it all. So you've kind of got to just, I don't know, there's got to be a little bit of fluidity and I don't know movement in that, I think, to make sure that you're not compromising. There's just too many moving parts and we can't make these promises that that's actually not within our control, like securing a trade, and I know I've had clients that have been so frustrated. You know it's just a bathroom renovation. They just want this new bathroom. Also, stop watching the block. Yeah, exactly, oh, my God, I mean for that to work, you and I would have to be literally in there with sledgehammers and laying the tiles, right, well, it's all right, we'll get it done for you, don't worry, it won't be, won't be perfect. Do you want to go on the block next year? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, highly entertaining, oh dear.
Speaker 1:I feel like a similar thing to that, um, like the over-promising. For me it's under-quoting. So you know, there are some things that are harder to work out and we all know as designers if you're a designer listening that it is really tricky to quote projects sometimes. Sometimes you just kind of know no, I've been doing this for a while. This is a very similar project to this one. I kind of know what that should cost, but then all it takes particularly if you've done flat fee is for something not to quite work or for you needing to spend more time on it because you can't quite get there. So I find that really hard and I think it's quite easy to underquote it because we want the price to be also right for the client.
Speaker 1:So you, just, you know the amount of designers I've talked to and I've spoken to you about this where you, you, you get there, you've worked it all out. You put the number down and you look at the number and you go, oh no, I don't know, I'm just going to drop a few. I'll drop a zero off it. Well, probably not that much, but like you know, you have so many zeros, just want to take it, can lose one. You know I just want to. I just want to just shave that back a little bit. It's making me uncomfortable. But you've got to really trust yourself, because that's when you stuff it up and you're in the project and you're losing money, essentially because you spend too much time on it.
Speaker 1:I agree, even mistakes that aren't your mistakes new, but because you were involved in the project, you probably spent time trying to help work it out. You know even admin talking to both the client, the joiner, maybe doing a site check or whatever. That's stuff that you haven't factored in, but you're just trying to do the right thing and some of it's not things that you can go. The client's going to need your help. It's like you kind of want to go well, okay, sure, that's going to be three hours of my time. Like it's kind of not how you roll on a project, right, it's sort of.
Speaker 1:I know it's like this fine line there and it was like, you know, sleepless nights because you're just worried and you want it to be great and amazing and you're just like I can't figure this out. I can't figure it out, yeah, but yeah, you know it is so hard when it comes to the fees and everything, and I've just learned that if I've underquoted and I'm working on a project, working on a project and I'm not being compensated for it, it just builds up resentment and I can't do my best work from that mindset. So, yeah, that's. It's really that's really tough. But, yeah, you do have to kind of stand your ground and say, well, this is actually what it costs for me to be in business. Like it's expensive to be in business. It is yeah, we've got people to feed, yeah, and I think that you know.
Speaker 1:It comes back to another mistake that I've made, which is sometimes you know mistakes that you've made, you have to rectify them. That you've made, you have to rectify them. And so, yes, when it comes to you know, pricing our work properly, you do have to allow for those sometimes mistakes that will happen. And one of them I look back on and I'm like you know what? That wasn't my mistake and I'm always too quick to say, oops, that was me. Like I think that's a stupid way to be, but anyway, I'm trying not to do that anymore.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was with a schedule. So a schedule that I'd issued for a project and this was the painting schedule. There were lots of different colors in this project and I actually the builder picked up on something. He said, oh, is that right? And I said, let me revise that. So I revised the schedule and it was Let me revise that. So I revised the schedule and it was, you know, revision, underscore A, rev A, and I highlighted some of the things that needed revising. But I'd forgotten to highlight one of them and so he worked off an old schedule, the first one when he ordered these shelves to be too packed in the color to match the wall. And he said and when they were delivered I said that's the wrong color, I'd updated that on the schedule here. He said, oh, but it wasn't highlighted. And I said, well, that was the most recent schedule though, so you shouldn't have been looking at the old one. Yeah, because it was right at the beginning of the project. That's kind of a bit notiness. And he said no, no. He said no, I didn't, that wasn't highlighted and it was on the original. So I was like, okay, well, so I then arranged for a new two-packer to come pick them up, re-spray them at my expense, and I'm like you know what, I should have stood my ground there because it wasn't highlighted, but it was still on the latest architectural revision.
Speaker 1:But you know, it's intimidating sometimes when you're talking to builders. Oh, completely. And you know I mean sometimes they will throw you under the bus when really that was not my fault. Oh, I've had that happen a lot. Yeah, I love I mean I shouldn't say a lot it happens occasionally Most of the trades I work with they'll call you first and say, hey, looks like this has happened or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:So you have a chance even just to think about how you're going to address that, because I don't like to go to a client and say, look, this is wrong. I'll work out what to do. I like to know what my solutions are and then I can go and say, look, this has happened, this is what we're going to do. So it just at least puts their mind at ease. And you don't always have the solution right away. But the amount of times that I've and it's sort of my mistake really having a job where you're not really controlling the trades but you're not kind of speaking to them and they're speaking directly to the owner more than they are you, and so they just say the stupidest stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's the old painters saying that the colour's not good. That definitely happens. I think most painters have an opinion about the colour. You know builders going oh, this is like this, she should have known that this shouldn't have been this or whatever. And I've had clients come to me like annoyed and I'm like hang on a minute. No, that's actually not me at all, oh God. But the builder just sort of threw it because they just I don't know, some of them are a bit like oh I don't know like kind of gossipy or something. They like the drama. Some people like the drama. They actually do To kind of create a little bit of it or complaining. You know like some people just like to complain, and there are trades people that are like that Not all of them, in fact, most people that I work with are not, but the occasional one. It's very frustrating.
Speaker 1:I think most people don't want to put their hand up and say I've made a mistake. And I mean, I like your point there that sometimes you don't need to get the client involved with things that go on. And I think that's what I tried to do. I tried to be like I've got this, I can handle this Client doesn't need to know there's been a mistake here, whereas in retrospect I should have said hold on a minute, this is what's on the latest schedule. Why was this not followed and I could have got the client on board? Anyway, it's been how many years Probably eight years since that happened and you still wake up at night I do. It's just another nightmare, I know, I know, but it turned out to be a beautiful project. But, yeah, I think the biggest lesson is, you know, we have to stand up for ourselves because nobody else is going to do it. That's true. And when it comes to costing $1,000 or $2,000 for some mistake, that really wasn't my fault yeah, you know, I think we have to really be our own advocate for that.
Speaker 1:I've also had a couple sort of similar but different. I had documentation done for some joinery and it was during the old COVID days and they were doing a meeting with the joiner in his factory and going through it all and I felt like the documentation was pretty solid. But there was just like one view that wasn't like I don't know, I blame. I think it was done in SketchUp Plan and you know like it's not very good with line weights. So, like I'm old school documenter, right, line weights are everything for when you're reading a drawing and I learned to hand draw, that's probably my best way to document. I'm too slow at the other stuff, so I get somebody else to do that for me. I just it's not a skill I want to concentrate on now. So I had someone else do it.
Speaker 1:It was done in SketchUp plan and the line weight in this particular elevation made it look like everything was on the same plane instead of something was behind something else. And if I had have been in those meetings I would have picked up on it. But because it was COVID, it was like, oh, there's only allowed to be X amount of people and the client wanted to go to the meeting. I think she'd found the joiner. So there was like, oh, there's only allowed to be X amount of people and the client wanted to go to the meeting. I think she'd found the joiner. So there was again that kind of relationship with the trade.
Speaker 1:I thought what could go wrong? I feel like the documentation's right If they've got questions, and I had a couple of questions and they'd come back to me. Anyway, on site I'm not going to explain exactly what it is, just because the client could be listening, but they didn't pick it up. I picked it up and it was okay and it didn't look terrible, but for me it would have driven me insane. I just knew it wasn't right the way it had been done. Yeah, so to this day it probably still exists like that, but I undernourished about what to do. I kind of went, oh it's in, what are the solutions? And I really got anxiety about it. I would lay awake at night thinking about it going. It's not right. The client didn't even notice it, but I noticed it.
Speaker 1:I think I spoke to the builder about it because I loved the builder, he was great to work with and I said look, I'm really agonizing over this. Do I tell them that it's not what I intended? Do I leave it? He goes. They're really happy with it. Why would you tell them? But, like I just had a full-on anxiety, I still think about it now because it wasn't right and I like things to be right, I know, and, yeah, sometimes you know you do have to make that call. Am I stressing out over something that's important to me and it's a designer kind of thing, or is the client absolutely just loving it and you don't? You know you could. You could really dampen the whole project if you pointed out this thing. That was really bothering you. They're like well, if, and then they can't unsee it right, yeah, yeah, it's a fine line, though, but if there's a mistake that you're like, you know what that's affecting the functionality or that's affecting, oh, 100%, that's different. It was just a visual. It's almost too hard for me to explain it anyway. But yeah, just bloody line weights.
Speaker 1:I know, isn't it crazy how like it's so important that drawings are drawn correctly? And I think how we would have what I learned from that was even drawn correctly, and I think how we would have what I learned from that was, even though it's harder to get the line weights right in something like SketchUp Plan, have a 3D in the document. We didn't have a 3D in the documentation and we could have because it was all in 3D and just to show, if they had been able to just see that in three dimensions, they would have noticed it straight away. So I learned from that going oh, why didn't we have the? Why didn't we have the 3d? And so that was sort of the thing that was missing to paint the full picture. Anyway, yeah, they just they do become useful, even in construction drawings to put the 3d in there.
Speaker 1:But we learn, we learn our lessons and we hopefully do better or hopefully not make the same mistake twice. That's a bummer when that happens. Oh gosh, yes, well, then you might start to examine what you're doing wrong. Yes, you know what I would love If you are listening to this. Why don't you just send us a quick DM and tell us one of your little fun mistakes, if you're brave enough to share it, because I'd be so curious. Yeah, and even when we post about this fun, jump in the comments if you're brave enough to put it in there. But, yes, please DM us and we'll share them anonymously, because that could be quite fun. Yeah, that's a great idea. All right, bree, that was so fun. Thank you, thanks. Yeah, see you next time.
Speaker 1:We've got some great episodes lined up. Oh, we do Some cool guests Talk. We've got some great episodes lined up. Oh, we do Some cool guests Talk soon. Bye, bye.
Speaker 1:So thank you guys for listening in. And just a quick reminder if you would like some help with the interiors for your own home, I can help you in a course called the Style Studies Essentials. Or, for designers out there, come into the Design Society for business and marketing and all of the things. Yeah, the Design Society for business and marketing and all of the things. Yeah, and in the same show notes you'll find a link to sign up for my soon to be released furniture collections pre-selected furniture collections and cool trend information, and then, in the future, some short courses on styling and trends as well. So, good Bree, we've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you. From this podcast today, a big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.