Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
Ruby Shields on Pursuing Passion and Redefining Success in Interior Design
What motivates someone to leave a successful career path and venture into the unknown? Ruby Shields did just that when she bid farewell to her flourishing advertising career to embrace her true passion: interior design. Join us as Ruby opens up about the pivotal moment at 27 when she realized she had to make a drastic change for personal happiness. Ruby’s journey is marked by the courage to take risks, driven by advice from her father and a tenacity cultivated since childhood. Her story underscores the importance of making life choices that align with personal fulfillment, even when it means embracing uncertainty and the challenges of starting anew.
Ruby Shields' experience as an interior designer is as vibrant and multifaceted as her career transition. In this episode, we discuss how Ruby’s advertising background enriches her design aesthetic, shaping her unique approach to building a portfolio and networking within the industry. Ruby offers invaluable insights for emerging designers on using social media creatively, illustrating how past experiences can influence professional growth. From overcoming personal adversities to celebrating achievements and mentorships, Ruby’s narrative is a testament to resilience and ambition, providing inspiration for both new and seasoned professionals navigating the evolving design landscape.
The transformative power of mentorship, self-awareness, and ambition takes center stage in our conversation with Ruby. We explore her current projects, where she gets hands-on with tasks like painting and tiling, showcasing her dedication to honing her craft. The episode dives deep into the significance of setting aspirational goals, embracing life’s unpredictability, and honoring the legacies of those who've inspired us. Ruby Shields’ journey is not just a career story; it’s a celebration of breaking cycles, living authentically, and paving a path for future generations to follow.
Follow Ruby's journey on her socials
Web: https://studioshields.com.au
Instagram: @_studio.shields & @studio.shields_theview
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If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
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Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers, me Bree Banfield and me Lauren Li, with some amazing guest appearances along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style, with a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and lived-in spaces. We're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you. In this conversation, ruby Shields shares her unique journey into the interior design industry, highlighting her transition from advertising to design. The discussion covers the importance of networking, overcoming fears and the significance of authenticity in building a personal aesthetic, which she most certainly has done. She sure does. Ruby emphasizes the need to take risks and make bold decisions to pursue one's passion, while also reflecting on her experiences in the advertising world and how they have shaped her design approach. In this wonderful discussion, we explore the significance of experience, research in education and the drive to overcome doubts and challenges in pursuing a fulfilling career in design, and I think that is really key, isn't it? And it's something that Ruby shows its passion. She is just so passionate about design. She is, yeah, and I think that you know if you're an established designer, you've been doing this for a little while. It's always so great to tap into somebody who's feeling that really great enthusiasm again for design. I know I felt that talking to Rube. Always, she's definitely passionate, it would be one word for it yeah, a hundred percent. Before we dive in, I am helping two small groups of interior designers one emerging group and one for more established designers in a mentor group, a mastermind that we're doing this year. So if you would like to join a small group of like-minded designers to just be the best designer that you can work on your business, work on your marketing, and do it with somebody guiding you and we're all helping each other there's a link in the show notes to find out more. Sounds amazing and jump in there to also find a link to sign up for my info coming out. I've got a few things coming up this year. It's going to be a big one. We're going to be releasing curated design packages so you can achieve the look of a bespoke design on a tighter budget. We're also going to be sending out regular trend information and we'll be releasing some short courses to help you as well. So jump in and sign up for that Wonderful. All right, let's dive into this really thoughtful and really real discussion with Ruby Shields. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, we are with Ruby Shields today, who I guess I've known Ruby, for it's been a number of years. Ruby, I met the first time at a cult event and she I don't know if you came up to me, ruby, and just started chatting and then we just I don't know, kind of hit it off. Anyway, I would say, got along very well, um, and then sort of kept in touch, and then I asked Ruby if she wanted to come and do some work with me. So she did that for as long as she could put up with it, and then, and then she was like ah, actually I'd like to think that she was telling me the truth when she said she had too much to do at school and needed to focus on math, which I completely respect. And she was, I think, that year also heading off to the 30 under 30, which was a huge achievement as well. So she had a bit going on, but we had a fleeting moment together, working on a project that's nearly finished now, actually, and it was really fun to work together.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how do you know Ruby Lauren? Well, I think, ruby, we were chatting in the DMs in Insta and it was just like back and forth, just friendly banter, and then it was at one of those Decor o Design or what was it? Design show or one of the things. And then you're like, um ruby, I was like, oh my god, and there's this beautiful person. I was so nice to put a face to the name. So, yeah, it's, it's really lovely, like I guess. I feel like, yeah, chatting to you as you were a student and now look at all you've done. It's really, but sincerely, it's really cool. We'd like to think we had a part to play in your rise. Oh, taking all the credit, no way, uh, you'll see, welcome ruby.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit about what you've been up to lately. Oh well, you girls did definitely play a part in. We thought, yeah, 100. Um, everyone plays a part in some aspect of someone's journey. Uh, what have I been up to? Just been bloody busy. Quite frankly, if I'm not busy, I'm bored. Um, but no, just busy. Uh, working, uh, doing my own little things.
Speaker 1:And then, obviously, the renovation which is going to be painting away this week, uh, this weekend, yes, painting, and then tiling the fireplace, which is was my new bright idea. So we've just, yeah, I know me that it's. It'll look so good and the tiles are a good choice, um, but poor pat has to do most of the manual labor on that one. God love him. He's so good at it. So tiling is a tricky one, but he's a perfectionist, isn't he? So, oh, you'll nail it. Yeah, killer perfectionist, um, resetting out because he wants all the tiles in line. Good though, great love that for him and for you. Mostly, 100%, nothing less.
Speaker 1:And I feel like so we've got Ruby on, because one of our discussions we wanted to talk about starting out in the interiors industry, because there's a lot of different ways that people do this. You know, lauren and I went to school and did it very traditionally in a way, but most paths to interiors seem to be not quite so linear, and I guess yours is one of those, ruby, with having a different career to start with, and so we thought it would be great to have you on just to have a little chat about those different ways that we get started in interiors. And I guess let's start with that. The whole second career thing I mean I kind of had second careers after interior design instead of before. You know, I did the study, did the interior design job and then I went and did architectural rep and then I sort of went into marketing and did other things.
Speaker 1:I think, have you always been in interiors, lauren? Yeah, same as you,
Bree:brie B.
Speaker 1:Like high school diploma, did the degree, worked as a student, worked as a graduate, like just the boring, standard linear path. I'm not boring. Well, yeah, I guess, ruby, like tell us like what drew you to interiors? Oh, it's a long-ish story, but let's go back to when I was like 14, 15. Or back in time. Back in time, let's get in the back in time machine. Anyway, I loved interiors and all I wanted to do was be an interior designer.
Speaker 1:I met Sabella Court at her book launch, et cetera, when I was 15, and I was just like so in awe of her. I was like I Court at her book launch, et cetera, when I was 15. And I was just like so in awe of her. I was like I went to her Paddington Isn't she? She's a cool lady. Yeah, I went to her Paddington house where they had the book launch and I was just like so besotted with the colors and all of her little things and her collection, anyway. So I was like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do. This is definitely what I'm going to do. And then there was a woman that I met at a show just like mind you, a show, so like Melbourne show, but it was Canton just to put into perspective their environment, that we're in a cultural kind of show with like rides and stuff. Animals, yeah, country show Okay, I think there was animals, yeah, but anyway we did.
Speaker 1:My family tradition was to do a drover's camp and we made damper. Anyway, this woman, where is this going? I know, let me damper one day, by the way, okay, I do know the recipe off by heart, golden syrup 101, butter. Anyway, off my heart, golden Syrup 101, butter. Anyway, this woman came over to me and she was I don't know where she was from, but she was like I wouldn't do interiors if I was you. You'll never make it and you'll never, like, earn enough money, blah, blah, blah. Like went on a whole diatribe about it and I was like, oh, okay, cool, no probs, I'll kind of put that in the back of my head Anyway, I'll kind of put that in the back of my head anyway. And then I was like I'll be an architect. So I went and told my biological mother that I will be an architect and she was like you're not smart enough to do that. And I was like, okay, cool, I'll put that. Thanks for your support. Man's world, you never make it. And I was like, okay, cool, okay, so I'll do fine arts. Then, okay, so there's a look. Yeah, I got accepted into fine arts. And then, right at the last moment, I changed that and was like I'll do advertising. Oh, great.
Speaker 1:And because I was watching, what was the reason you decided to? I was watching Mad Men at the time. Love the honesty. It was like, so, growing up as a country kid, right, country kid, country kid no concept of marketing, advertising anything. Mad men sick, I'll do that anyway. I think it was fashion. Honestly, yeah, I so annoyed at myself although the interiors and the interiors and the interiors just like the whole set design of that and I was like, yeah, advertising anyway. So I just decided that I'd move to Melbourne. I told my now husband, pat, he could stay in Canberra if he wanted to, because I was going to move to Melbourne and this is what I was doing, so you can come or you can stay. Anyway, he came.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, started advertising, was good at it because I put effort into it. I think if you put effort into it, you're always just going to be good at something and excelled in that career. But there's always like been this inkling of like wanting to be an interior designer. The people in the agencies would come up to me and be like, hey, what are your thoughts on this? And I'd be like, oh well, I'd go here. Hey, rubes, where would you get a couch here? I'd like be the first one in to get all the Bell magazines. And what was the other? There was like two, two magazines that we'd get in the first big agency that I'd work at and I'd race to get in first up. Just like, take one of the interior design magazines home, love that.
Speaker 1:What was that agency world like working in? Was it a big sort of more corporate environment or what was it like? Gosh, it's not corporate, because we're all very creative people. Okay, yeah, right, because I was in the, yeah, art director. So in the creative it was.
Speaker 1:You know, when you're in it it's tumultuous and it's like wild and it's hard and it's like it's changed. But it was a man's world. So, like being a graduate in that environment, you had to get a thick skin really fast. And I mean, you did watch Mad Men, so you did know that going in yeah, I did know that going in Literally, of what it was going to be like. It was also set 40 or 50 years ago, longer Right, so you'd think it like half changed, but no, no, it hadn't really changed. Um, it had changed a bit. But, yeah, you're, you're just in this drive of like this creative and there's like teams and you're working with each other and like so it's tumultuous being in it.
Speaker 1:And then, and you kind of like I didn't love it, I found it really difficult. But looking back on it now I'm like, oh, my god, it was actually so much fun, like the things that we get away with, of like going for pub lunches on Wednesday at 12 and getting drunk and then coming back to the office and working Good ideas, good ideas come with alcohol. But it was just, yeah, I guess it was like that environment of just like you just work hard, you're coming up with new briefs Like I turned out like a rounder pitch for a sex toy company, mind you, in 24 hours, yeah, so I think that just that environment of yeah, ideas and coming up with new things and then presenting it, and then those ideas dying and then it's just like you learn a lot in that environment. So I suppose, like it sounded like I mean, you look back, don't you? You look back and think actually that was fun, but, as you said, when you're in it it's pretty tough.
Speaker 1:So you were the go-to interiors person unofficial so what made you think you know? Know what I'm going to take that leap? Was there a moment? Or I feel like it's a pretty big decision. If you're yeah, it is in a career that you're doing well in as well um, to make a decision to leave that and do something. I guess it's pretty unreal. I mean, it's creative but it's still fairly unrelated, um, and so you're going into a bit of an unknown. You've got to go back to school, so you've got to start earning money, so it's a really big.
Speaker 1:And how? And also, how old were you then? If you don't mind me asking about your age, hang on, I actually don't know how old I am. I had to do the mathematics, but I'm not good at doing mathematics fast, I think. I think I was 27. I would have been 27, yeah, okay. So you're established and working, so it's not like you know you're 22 or something and no, yeah, god, no, yeah, like definitely established.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, so, putting it into context, I got married. I changed my last name, so it went from Ruby Boynton Boardman oh God, so long To Ruby Shield. I then cut all my hair off. I had really long blonde hair, cut it all off. I was working at the top agency in Melbourne and is still the top agency in Melbourne Called my boss. I said I've got some bad news for you, but good news for me he looks like you're pregnant. I was like you get something, but yeah, no, I'm leaving you.
Speaker 1:What kind of came to that? I think I just got to a point where I was like, if I don't do this now, then when am I going to do it? Yeah, and I think we all ask ourselves if not now, then when? And my second part of that is but why, when? Why are we waiting for that when? Yeah, when it can just be now, uh, so good, actually, because, um, I feel like you can, you can wait forever for when and it doesn't happen, yeah, or it can always be the wrong time there's sometimes. You just got to take a bit of a leap if it's something that you know is going to make you happy, or you even just believe is going to make you happy, and maybe it doesn't, but you'll never know that it didn't make you happy, right, if you don't do it?
Speaker 1:And I think there's two stories that come into this. First part is like my dad, who would say to me if you don't ask, you don't know, and if you don't do, you don't know. So that's one. So I was like, okay, cool, I'll do it. Yeah, he always said that If you don't ask me, ruby, how do you know? I'm not going to say yes, okay, so I'll ask. It's a no.
Speaker 1:And I think the other one is like that tenacity and I guess I got that like side story which we're going to go down is like when I was 11, I decided that I was just going to move out of home and I took it upon myself that I would take myself out of this situation and choose a better life for myself, 11 years old, 11. And I was going into an unknown and I didn't know if they were going to say yes to me being there. But what I knew was if I didn't try, how was I going to know that I wasn't going to have a better life. Yeah, so I think the same as like when I decided that I wasn't going to stick in advertising I needed to choose a better life for me that was going to make me happy. So you reflect in to that little person that was like you need to do this for you 27,. You need to do this for you 27,. I need to do this for me. Yeah, to see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I applied like I put my portfolio together. I didn't even really discuss it with Pat. Really, that's interesting. No, because that little person was like you're doing this? Yeah, it wasn't anyone else, you wasn't anyone else and not be influenced. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't anyone else's choice besides mine. So I was like put the portfolio together. I turned to. I had like I had a week to put a portfolio together because I just decided. I just was like, if not now, then when and why? When? Let's just do it now. Yeah, put that portfolio together. I submitted it to RMIT. One because I'd already been to RMIT and it was easy. Two, because the course was really good.
Speaker 1:So it was like a double-edged sword. I was like, yeah, I should just. Um, I told Pat, I was like this is what I've done. He was like, okay, well, I'll support you, no matter what happens. And I was like, hey, cool, I was like, because we're good egg, he's a good egg, he's such a good egg. Um, and then, and then, yeah, and then I, I got accepted and I was like, okay, so now I guess I gotta quit my job because I start in a month to go back to uni, um, and I guess, yeah, that that's the story, but the things all weighing into it was like having a whole shift in like who I was at that time of like changing name, cutting hair, yeah, it's a lot I wanted, yeah, I just I wanted to, I just wanted to shed everything and do something that was for me, um, and yet, going to a single income was really that's always tough, yeah, but I guess, like my, my goal was always to have kids at 29 and live life after that.
Speaker 1:So by taking that choice of, do I stay in a career that I'm like semi-unhappy and slightly an alcoholic and you're sort of waiting, I mean, she has it rude, like a little bit, like a little bit, but I still, you know. But you know, stay in a career where I'm not particularly happy but make a good amount of money. It's an enabling career. Let's clarify that. Yes, it was an enabling career, although you do part-time work at a winery. That can't be, yeah, I know, because I get a discount in wine, so like I can't give it up. Sorry, we digress, we digress, oh, we digress, but yeah, so it's like, do you stick and do something that you're not particularly happy in so then you can fulfil one part of your life of having kids, having a career, settling down or doing that. And also you're waiting. You literally just said you were waiting to start your life. Like that's not good. Your life is now. Your life is every day, exactly yeah, exactly so like yeah, or do I just, you know, throw it up, just do it, and my choice was just do it.
Speaker 1:Did you see how I tied that into advertising and mark tagline? I love it, that slogan have I heard that before? Absolutely. I liked the word that you used, tenacity before, and I think that really, yeah, it does. And no one's going to come and rescue you. You, you know, when no one's going to say fill out these forms, like if you want to apply for a new course and change your career.
Speaker 1:You just sounded like you, yeah, you were really at a point in your life a lot of shifts and a lot of changing. Um, it takes so much courage and it takes a lot of sacrifice. Like, as you sort of mentioned, you know it's real, going to one single income, that's no joke. Like that's a real sacrifice that you, you do have to make that choice. And you know, it sounded like you really had that passion for, for interior design in the beginning.
Speaker 1:So, um, the other thing that I kind of take away from that is you know, I was waiting for you to sort of go and this happened and it was like a light bulb moment and I decided to do that and it wasn't. And it's actually better, because if there's people listening who are like, oh, maybe I want to do interiors, I reckon a lot of people are waiting for some kind of light bulb moment. Or, you know, if you want to be a bit woo, woo, a sign to say this is what I should do, and you just it was all, just you you went, this is what I need to do for myself to live my life the way I want to live it. You didn't wait for some other thing to happen and then go, oh, that's probably what I should do, like it wasn't an outside influence, even not even talking about it, like I kind of love that and I think more, more women in particular, I would say, need to start being more in control of their own life and and it come from within, not from an exterior, kind of thing. That was just one of the things I thought was quite clever. I think it's also like it's just our inner selves, like if we're not, you know, we want to be the little. We want to be the person that our little self wanted to be or our little self wish they had around.
Speaker 1:I saw a meme the other day that said I'm into the memes that are like meaningful. Sometimes they speak to me, sometimes I just send them to other people to make them laugh. But this one said something like the only people you need to impress is like your eight-year-old self, let's say, and your 80-year-old self. Those are the only two people you need to impress. So will you look back and be happy with your life? And would you look back and think about your eight-year-old self looking at you and going this is great, this is what you should be doing. I really liked that because it's no kind of external influence. It's all about making sure you're doing the right thing for you.
Speaker 1:But it sounded like, you know, as you mentioned Ruby, you were like this is not working for me here. I need to make a change. So you've had that inner strength since you were little and I guess that's still. Yeah, making a decision to change your career, it has to come from within and, yeah, I just really take my hat off to that and that shows so much courage. Yeah, it really does.
Speaker 1:When I think about it, I'm like fuck, yeah, girl, you got this. I look at that person and I'm like I wish I had you once you start making those hard decisions. But the next hard decision is just a little bit easier, right, and I, yeah, and I think we will get into that in like in one of the other questions of like you know what is what is fear, when you've already feared so much? Well, that's, I mean we can talk about it now Like what did you want to add to that? God, I can't remember.
Speaker 1:I just it was like around fear of like, rejection or, you know, fearing taking those opportunities, like what's the worst that's going to happen. You're going to be left on bread, possibly, which you know seen on Insta a lot. It's a hard thing, though, to get past. I don't know. We probably haven't had this conversation, lauren, so I'll get you to chime in, but for me, I take things very personally and even after 50 years, I still find it really difficult to separate things from it being a personal, I don't know, not attack, but like just they don't like me, or it's something quite personal.
Speaker 1:The reason why, where often that's not the case In fact, you'd probably say maybe 90% of the time it's to do with some other situation, or that things weren't right, it wasn't the right time, wasn't the right person, whatever it is, we're talking career stuff, but I really struggle with that separation of taking rejection in particular. Personally. What are you like, lauren? Are you good at kind of being able to kind of I don't know separate those two things, or are you a bit the same? I feel like creatives tend to be a bit like that. Well, in my old age, I think I'm getting a bit better at it.
Speaker 1:I you know, and I think that's why it's so great to be chatting to you, ruby, because you know, talking about that fear and putting yourself out there, it is scary. It is scary to put your video on Instagram, to put your opinions out there to the world of. You know, a bunch of strangers and no, not everyone's going to like you, and I've just thought, oh well, and not everyone's going to like me and that's okay. Yeah, and that's a really good point. I mean, we all sort of have to put ourselves out there at the moment in terms of and you know, one of the things we wanted to talk about was how you make your presence known, and social media gives you that opportunity right to actually make your presence known in the industry. But to do that, you have to put yourself out there. You have to take that risk that people aren't going to like you, people are going to say shit things and you've just kind of got to let that roll off.
Speaker 1:Right, you do, and I think you know, when we first started chatting Ruby on insta, and I'm seeing this student create these amazing materials boards and you put your 3D renders out there on Instagram I'm like, oh my gosh, every other student needs to see this. This is what you need to do. You need to put your work out there. Is it a real project? No, who cares? No one cares. But we got to really get to know your aesthetic, your point of view, your ideas about design, and you know, I think, maybe do you think your advertising background played into that. Oh, I think, without a doubt, the marketing, advertising background. You can't not look at my page and go advertising and marketing has, like, yeah, just the art director of like being able to refine, you know, refine your ideas. And you know, refine your ideas and you know, market that and place it in a really nice, aesthetically pleasing like.
Speaker 1:I love my Instagram. That sounds so egotistical, but like, scrolling through it, I'm like love it. I think it looks so nice. It does, though, but you have to stand by it. You have you have to believe in it, because otherwise other people won't.
Speaker 1:Um, have you read that book? It's called the practice by seth godin. No, I only ever read um crime thrillers. I know, I'm so nerdy. I read all the nerdy books. Anyway, he just talks about putting your work out there, basically, and shipping it. That's the way he sort of says you create it and just take, put it out into the world. And you know, because he's sort of a marketing kind of guy I thought you might have. You're not as nerdy as me, obviously, so that's that's good for you. But, um, is that what it's called the practice? Yeah, by Seth Godin? Yeah, and it's just about that creative process. And you know, there's no point in hoarding it all and keeping it in your Dropbox cloud for no one to see, but so putting it out there on Instagram it's just.
Speaker 1:You know, did you find that was that difficult in the beginning, or how did you sort of overcome that? Or were you just like you know what? I got nothing left to lose. Yeah, I think it goes back to just like having nothing to lose. Like, what? What's the worst that's going to happen? Yeah, like in in the scheme of things, in what I as, like a sole person, has gone through, just as an individual, what is the worst that's going to happen? Yeah, you might get a troll. I don't know. You might get a troll, and that would be kind of validating. Wow, I've made it. I find it really entertaining. I find it really entertaining what we learn about. Like, if you get a troll, you're doing good. Yeah, you're doing yeah, yeah. Yeah, it shows that you're putting someone that starts an account, just so they control you.
Speaker 1:I've made it flattering. Oh god, it's so flattering. Actually I'd be like, oh, but I don't care that much. You need a poor ruby. That's your next goal. Ah, okay, I'll add that to the list. If anyone's listening, can you please be my troll? But literally, isn't that the worst thing that could happen? And who cares? Who cares? Who cares? Honestly, at the end of the day, like you know God, we've just got to bloody try. I've got you know the people. The only thing that I'm scared of is disappointing the people that I really respect and adore, like, and you know, at the end of the day, I don't do that to them. That's all I care about. Yeah, I like that. If someone doesn't like my post, oh, screw you. It's a good post I love. You're missing out. What is your instagram handle? Abrivi shields underscore design. Oh, okay, got it. Everybody. Where to go? Yeah, please, no, I feel like obviously, social media is like a really big thing in terms of presence in the industry.
Speaker 1:I would probably say the other thing that I think you and Lauren and I are probably reasonably good at is just getting out there and being in the industry personally and seeing people. Do you think that's another thing that is like really important to kind of get your sort of self-known 100% starting out as a graduate. Yes, it's scary, like it is is incredibly scary, um, doing that. But what's like again, what is the worst that's going to happen? They're probably going to turn their back and be like, oh, thanks, thanks for coming, nice, to meet you. And then walk away like, yeah, it hurts a little, but like at the end of the day, at least they know your face and you've made some sort of impression. And then you can follow them up and DM them on Instagram and be like, hey, it was really great meeting you tonight. And if they leave you unseen, that's fine. Like you, still, you made the effort and you can walk away and know that you tried. And then, if they don't, you can turn around and one day, when you're in Vogue Living and you look really good, you can be like bet you wish you commented and like replied to my message. But even if they don't, even if they don't, that's fine, why don't you?
Speaker 1:I'm just trying to think back. I mean it was a long time ago when I was out of school or even well, you were really going to events when you were still at school. How did you even find out about them? Like, what we do, was it via social media or just by other people that tell the total social media? Social media played a really big part in that and, like I guess, having a couple of good people that you know, that was like doing bits and pieces in the industry, but also, like I just spent a lot of time sliding into people's DM I thought I was the only one. No, me too. Sorry, laurie. Sorry, I have to say you did it in a really genuine way, like we would have nice chats. So there's a difference, you know. And also, I just wanted to get that mention in there that you were.
Speaker 1:You got a commendation for the Graduate of the Year Award, is that right? Yes, and that is so awesome. So you know, we're not just talking to, like you know, and that's across all of the graduates of interior design. Is that right? Yeah, it's pretty big. Yeah, in Victoria, oh, right, yeah, it's pretty big. Yeah, in Victoria. Yeah, oh, in Victoria, it's pretty big. So, sorry, I just wanted to get that in there. Thank you, I was. It's very cool.
Speaker 1:I feel like awards can be. So I've never I don't think I've ever entered any awards and I kind of I need to sort of, you know, do that a bit more now. But I feel like that's something you're actually really good at too spending the time and making sure you're doing that and I think that is a way to get noticed too, isn't it? Yeah, the award thing comes purely from advertising, like the drive to win awards. Because, like in advertising, that's part of it. You go hard on awards. They're quite meaningful, yeah, and you want to be an agency that's multi-awarded, multi-awards, yeah. So that's why I've entered into all of the awards only purely because in advertising land, awards are currency and if you have good currency, then you cost more. Yeah, that's the mentality in advertising. You've got it. Oh, yeah, I entered the Australian Interior Design Awards and I got shortlisted twice. So it is nice to be mingling with that group.
Speaker 1:But I was going to say as well, you know, I could imagine a lot of graduates or a lot of students going oh, how come Ruby got to do this? How come Ruby got to do that? Because she entered. Yeah, did you? I don't know. It's really cool. It goes back to one of my dad's other sayings If you don't try, then like again. You don't know Like, so you may as well just try, and if you don't get it, then that's fine, but you can just try again later. Love that.
Speaker 1:And I want to come back to your point, lauren, like genuineness, I feel if you're not authentic and you're not you, then you won't have the cut through. Yeah, because totally there is so many interior designers out there and decorators and if you aren't authentically who you are and you're about lost, you just you're just gonna get lost. Yeah, because no one can be you. Yeah, only you can be you. So you really need to hone that skill. It's simple, but actually I think you're really hitting on something there that people do.
Speaker 1:I think people can feel that genuine I don't know character and when you're not, that people really notice it and you're sort of way less memorable when you're not yourself, like you just have to kind of trust that not everyone's going to be your person, but the people that are are the ones you're going to attract when you're authentically yourself. I think that's another fear thing, right To think that you have to be, have to kind of you know, appeal to everyone, and it's almost the same thing. Like you know that, lauren, and and I would say too, if you're an interior designer trying to get work, you can't appeal to everyone. You've got to kind of find your people right, and if you're not authentically yourself or doing whatever you're supposed to be doing, it doesn't happen and you sort of end up getting just lost in a sea of yeah, of normalness or whatever. And I think I said like I, I got bullied so much in school.
Speaker 1:No, awful amount. I didn't have very many friends, like full stop. I found that really funny, right, so sociable and so easy to yeah. High school is a whole other thing, though, isn't it High school? But it was primary school as well. Primary school and high school awful time. But I think that's what's also created that Like I don't care about, I'm not going to be your friend, I've got my people and that's all that matters. Yeah, like I can't please, you know, cheryl, I can't please Ruth, but I can please hurry and like yeah, like you know, and god.
Speaker 1:There was another thing that I wanted to pull back on. Okay, so also, when going to events, research who you're seeing, yeah, okay, yeah, that's a good point Vaguely know who will be there as well. So, for instance, I went to one of Flaxclint's drinks and I would have been first year, first year studying, and I had researched Marty Doherty and Marty was there. Oh, that's cute. So I walked up to her and I said hi, marty Doherty, I'm Ruby Shields. Hi, marty Doherty, first and last name.
Speaker 1:I know that you like to sing in the car really loud when you go home and I really like to do that too. Cute, and you really like earrings and that's so fun. And then I followed it up the next day with really lovely to meet you. And now I'm a really close friend with marty jody. Yeah, so that's not a bad friend to have. And marty, it's not about she's so lovely, so beautiful, and she's just like, oh, I just yeah, I have a lot of respect for marty, but like, if you don't, you know, she could have turned around and said really nice to meet you, ruby.
Speaker 1:Um, have a good night. Yeah, that's fine, and stop being my stalker. Um, all the articles, um, and know what I do in my downtime, um, but yeah, I think that's a really important thing is like when you're going out into the industry to like at least know some key people. Then, another thing that I learned last night is to go in and have three people that you really want to have meaningful conversations with and then float between the two and make it that your mission. So, for instance, what do you focus? Just rock up and go where's where's my wine? And, hi, look, I meet most of my people at the snack table. Um, that's where I'm lingering, near the catering. I always linger near the food. You're always funny. I think it's wine first and then, okay, where is the food coming from? I need to be in that kind of projectory. We've got it down pat. We've got it down pat, but can I just back up for a second?
Speaker 1:So when you said you went to this event, so you're in first year, yeah, who did you go with? Like, did you have a buddy to go with? Or oh, who did I go with? Like I don't remember who I went with. It's almost like even just taking that first step, if you're first year, you might not really have a little, you know, a few interior design buddies yet. Um, yeah, it's on your own. It can be quite scary to go on your own. Um, so that that you know who.
Speaker 1:Who are you studying with? You know, get a group together, say let's go to this event together and then totally abandon them when you see Marty Doherty over there. No, don't do that 100%. Do that. It's really important. But I also love that you did that bit of research and you know, every now and then somebody will shoot me a resume and when they don't know my name or they address it as Dear Sassala, well, sassala is my business name, it's not my actual name. I mean, it's a bare minimum. You've got to know my name. But why is it Exactly? I hate that. I mean, I almost just skim over those or delete them if there's no, particularly if they get something wrong in the first line, like you're natural, yeah, yeah, why would you even kind of think about it? Because you're obviously not that interested and they're literally just shooting things out to everyone. Yeah, haven't thought properly about who they want to. I guess work with which I guess, is a good, a good point.
Speaker 1:Like I was really fortunate, I um went straight into a job in my final year of school. Actually, I was trying to remember how this happened when we were like writing stuff to talk about, and I actually can't remember whether I was just noticed in the class might've been one of the teachers put me forward. You know like you've got great teachers right. You're a teacher, lauren, and you know what it's like if you've got a great student, you'll put them forward if someone's looking for someone. I think that's how it happened and anyway I fell into a job at which I ended up in for a while.
Speaker 1:But like that's probably one of the hardest things, I think, if you don't even know where to start in getting a job, like if you want a job in the industry, did you, ruby? Would you say that you kind of just approached the right people or what was your kind of? I don't know? Did you have a strategy on that? I guess my strategy on that was stalk people. It's called research, it's called research, research, researching people.
Speaker 1:I think there was like my hit list and I had like nurtured those relationships throughout uni and made sure that I was like that if I walked into a room they'd know exactly who I was. So like, for instance, david. David said to me when I, when I met him and I went to introduce myself and David Flack was like no, ruby Shields, I know who you are. And I was like, oh, that's so great, cool. That is cool, ruby, that is cool. That doesn't happen by accident. You know you've nurtured that. You've. Yeah, exactly so I think it's like that. Yeah, it's paid off. That's some research really well done. Um, on that Instagram now, but you know it paid off at the time. Um, I mean, yeah, I'm blocked. No, I'm not, thank god, thank god.
Speaker 1:No, I think there's a level. There's a level that you need to respect. It's like engaging with them but not like being creepy, and I think that is a good point. You know it's having that respect for them as professionals. You're not like first DM, hey, dave, like da-da-da, like I don't know you yet, we're not that familiar. Yeah, no, you've got to also respect that they're. Yeah, I think that's a good point. Yeah, can we just go back to?
Speaker 1:You were saying you know you've got to put your work out there, but also you've got to be you. But sometimes, when you've studied, you don't know who you are yet as a designer, how do you develop that aesthetic? How do you? You and I guess it's probably by putting it out there, isn't it? You just gotta put it out there and you, you're honing it. I don't know, you are honing it. You are honing it as you go.
Speaker 1:It's, it's hard again. Someone recently asked me this of like, how do I be more like you? And I was like fuck, that's really hard. Um, hashtag, trauma, go through it, coming out the other end, um. But I, yeah, I honestly don't know, I just I guess my, my style, I don't know. I can't answer that properly. I just I just push really hard. Do you think, ruby?
Speaker 1:Um, and this may not be relevant, but I think that you, because you had that first career, you probably have a different level of confidence than, say, someone who's gone straight from school into interior design course and then they're still kind of quite young and I think when you're younger you can have a particular point of view, but it's really not developed as much as someone who has already kind of been out in life and been working and I don't know even just experience, like even travel and all of that stuff. I think that all of those things kind of help develop your sense of style or whatever your aesthetic is. So I think it can be really tricky. You've just got to kind of trust that you're going to start somewhere when you're younger and that it will develop, and you've just kind of got to like put it out there and let it happen, a bit like what you're saying, lauren, but um seth says like if you don't, it can't develop, if you don't put it out there and just keep kind of like working on it, right, yeah, hmm, it's hard when you're really young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in advertising, like you've gone through, you've tried a lot of different styles. Like you're meeting different brand guidelines every day. You can go from Bupa health insurance to sex toys, back to Haagen-Dazs ice cream, yeah, and it's like you have to balance all those different tones of voices and styles. And so through that process I've already nutted out, you know, not colours but like, for instance, I've like nutted out what my style is through that and my style has developed over time.
Speaker 1:But I guess there's always just been a knack for combining materials together that I just really love and it's just like a lot of research. I spend a lot of time scouring the internet looking for new products, for new materials, for new designs, and that helps me develop as well, because I'm constantly looking and researching and I always return to faction because, one, I love it and, two, it's just really good inspiration, um, but we can just learn a lot from our environment, even nature, like I love making material boards from nature. Yeah, it's cool. Something like that was a project once. We had to like actually use sound objects. That sounds really fun. Oh, that is fun, lauren, you could do that. Yeah, I feel like doing that this afternoon.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think you make such a good point, ruby. You know we're not all in our own little island. We are always absorbing what is around us. And you've just got that radar on and you can't switch it off. So you know you've got to cast that net wide and I like this, I like this. No, not that. No, not that. Like you've just got to have it, you know you've. Then you slowly start to edit down and that develops your own aesthetic, and then we all know what that aesthetic is because you've put it out there, so you know.
Speaker 1:So I suppose could you tell us about how your position now with Wawa? How did that come about? Sorry, I said that wrong. No, don't worry, tell us again, ruby, once and for all, so everyone knows how to say it. I might say it wrong. Now. Pressure, pretty sure, I'm pretty sure. Wawa, wawa, wawa, but don't worry, I yeah, I went into my interview and was like I really want to work at, well, well, um, how did that come about?
Speaker 1:Research, research, um. But I guess I was always, um, sliding into, uh, the dms and just made myself very actively in view. So, going back to that hit list, yeah, that hit list was Doherty, flack there was one other one and Wawa, so I had a top four that I wanted to work at. I got an interview with Marty. Marty was like yes, but I don't have the work in the pipeline. I went in for one at Flack to do the FF&E. It was an FF&E role and I decided that I didn't actually really want to do that. So I said, no, I just I wanted to design, yeah, and that, yeah, I needed to design. I didn't want to, I just didn't want to do schedules all day. And then I did go for Wendy Bergman, because I love Bergman and Co. Yeah, um, but Wendy didn't have Wendy runs a really small studio and she didn't have space for me. But it was yes.
Speaker 1:Again, it's always it's like, yeah, those there were yeses. It was just like they didn't have the work work in the pipeline. So when I went to Mon, mon was like yes, but I don't have anything at this point in time and I was like that's cool, was like I'll bring you on as a day a week, though, to do the Instagram, and I was like, okay, I can do that. And then that day turned into three days, and then that day those three days turned into four days, and then those four days are turned into a nine day full night. So yeah, so you've got your foot in the door right like 100. That's so awesome. So I think it's just like that opportunity like you know, it's not always going to happen and if it starts off a day a week, you know like at least you're there a day a week, and then it might turn, yeah, and then you might turn into something else, and it might not, and at the end of the day, that's okay too, like we'll just find somewhere else.
Speaker 1:This is the thing as well. You have changed your whole career. You have re re-qualified yourself. You have spent a lot of well, time and effort putting your work out there. You sort of really have to back yourself and think you know, what do I really want to do? Where do I really want to be? And yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:You know it is hard sometimes to sort of think almost a yes, but no, I can't take that position Like I think that's actually pretty amazing that you actually said no to David Flack's studio. It's not that it was a no, I just I went in for the interview and then I sent an email the next day and I was like I just don't think it's right for me. Good luck with your search. So it wasn't like they offered me it, I just was like like I don't want to waste time, go, go next. Because, to be fair, you know it, sometimes when you're working as an interior designer, even if you're working on the most amazing projects, you are still in front of an excel spreadsheet. Yeah, day every day. You know it's not as actually, you know, as fun as it sometimes might seem, and so you were already on that, which is miles ahead of where I was.
Speaker 1:Took me a few years to realise. I don't know if I want to do another 50 markups of documentation today and drawing another toilet and bathroom. Really good point in terms of when you are starting out that. I mean, I know you sort of shifted away from that particular role, but you did end up taking a role that still was social media, which I guess may be slightly more appealing. But it's a really good point to make that when you are trying to get into the industry, sometimes you've just got to take something that maybe isn't exactly what you want but it's a foot in the door of where you want to work. So say, if you had gone down that path with flack, that still could have opened up. You know, you might have had to have spent time in that role, but it could have been another role open and then they would have recognised that you were great for that.
Speaker 1:I think that's sort of, you know, like there's that organic way that you end up where you need to be and that it's good to definitely have a strategy and to say no to things that aren't right, but also to be a little bit open about how you sort of get to where you need to go, because there's not always a direct way. Sometimes there's the back door and the side street. Yeah, totally, totally. And you know, sometimes I think about that and I go. Maybe I should have gone through the whole process just to see where it landed. But then in other breaks I'm like you know, this is where I am and this is what I'm doing. I love that you were decisive about that, yeah, and you've ended up where you need to be. But, yeah, I think that there's just, there's just a, I guess, a trust in yourself to know when to say no to things and when to say yes. Or you just do what I do and just kind of say yes to everything and then work it out later, yeah, but I think that speaks to your ambition, ruby, and where do you think that's come from? How do you think about ambition? Do you manifest or do you mood board, or how do you? I don't mood board, or how do you? I don't mood board? Voodoo dolls? I don't know, I wouldn't put it past me. No, I'm joking. Mac and Marty, can I tell you a funny story about a voodoo doll? Yeah, oh, please.
Speaker 1:When I was a student at a little architecture practice. You know all the fun things you get to do when you're a student at a little architecture practice. You know all the fun things you get to do when you're a student. My task that day was to defrost the freezer You're kidding. And in the freezer, oh, I've done all sorts of things. You know this little architecture practice and you know you do what you've got to do. I found a voodoo doll in the freezer that had clients and builders' names pinned to it. That's so funny. Yeah, no, I was like what's this guys? Wow, yeah, I think there's a thing with voodoo dolls that they're not activated. You put them in the freezer and put them on ice. They're saving it for later. So funny. Yeah, this architect, he was always like he was a lovely guy.
Speaker 1:You know, you're doing weird jobs like that and you do learn. You know it was diary management, it was oh, I can't remember the other things I learned, but yeah, it leads you on to the next thing. That leads you on to the next thing. So I think, yeah, back to your point, brie, about you know, sometimes it's. You know, was it my dream job to be defrosting a freezer? No, but um, it led to the next thing, which led to the next thing. I don't know, I think I guess it's an old school way of saying that and I'm just going to put this out there.
Speaker 1:My point of view is that I think there's a lot of young people that come out of design schools and their goal is and I think this is a bit of a generational thing, because I always wanted to. You know, when you're at school and you're doing your projects, you sort of in your head think about what it's going to be like if you had your brand and your design thing and what it would be called and all of that sort of stuff. So I get that that's a big part of what a lot of people kind of dream of and are aiming for. But I'm astonished at how many people come out of school and think that they can just go straight into their own firm without and I know people do and some of them do it well and some of them don't but you just learn so much working with people and for people and not just. I mean it's just so much that you don't get taught at school, right, but there's also just great people skills that you learn working with other people and I would highly recommend anyone even if your goal is your own firm just to spend a couple of years even just with other people and learning from them and seeing how they work and kind of like just I don't know learning a bit more about the industry through other people before sort of jumping into your own business. I don't know. That's kind of.
Speaker 1:I'm always amazed at how many people just kind of go oh, I'm just going to go straight into my own business, cause I think it's. I think it's just you don't know enough to do that. Yeah, and it depends where you are, it depends what you've done in your previous career. But you know, working at that little practice, you know, yes, I learned about diary management and I learned about, but I got to see almost like a bit of a bird's eye view on how a practice runs. Yeah, you know. And then I went to another practice which was a bit bigger, and so it's a hierarchy. I was like, oh, that's interesting and not for me. Oh, wow, but I got to learn. And there was a graphic designer in-house. I got to learn software from them. There was a CAD manager. I got to learn CAD. And I look back now and I think, oh my gosh, you guys taught me so much.
Speaker 1:And even if you wanted to work in a showroom, you know all of the different contacts that you get to. You know you get to speak to Marty Doherty when she walks in or whatever. You know just to talk about Marty again because she's so lovely and awesome. But sometimes you might have a designer that you put on a pedestal and then you work in a show. When you meet them and you go, I know, yeah, because you get to see how they interact, even those little things, as you say back to the people, brie, and you know, working at those practices, oh, I've got a great network of people. If I need to start somebody, tell me some documentation, somebody to help. You know, you've got those for years after, so there's definitely something to be said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean no shade to working in a showroom. It's not like a lesser thing. I think showrooms like part of me is like one day I'd really like to work in a showroom because you learn so much, yeah, yeah, you get to really get that fine detail about the product knowledge. Yeah, there's so many pathways, but I think you know back to you know, ruby, you've got a really you've got a pretty clear path. I feel Like you know where you want to go, yeah, and I guess, if so, where does that? Yeah, where does that come from? I like that. That was a good question.
Speaker 1:I think I have always had people that have doubted me, and it's not and it's not proved them wrong, it's like more. So well, if they think I can't do it, then I'm just going to make sure that I can do it Like I'm going to shine because I feel like not that I deserve to shine. I don't think that's the right way, cause I don't. I don't. Yeah Deserves not right word there, I guess. Shine, I don't think that's the right way because I don't. Yeah deserves not right word there, I guess. Yeah, I just want something different for my life than what was laid out in front of me. It's really interesting, isn't it? Like I feel. I mean, you and I have had conversations about trauma and we've got some similarities in the past there.
Speaker 1:But I think that one of the things that can happen is you know, and I know other people who've been through similar things, and you kind of go. It seems to be two ways you can go, yeah, and one of them is, I guess, to fall into that sort of victim mentality and that ends up where your life is probably not so great because you don't ever quite recover, or it's to tackle it, which is sort of like what you've done, what I've done, and use it in your life to, I don't know, fuel the ambition or fuel the I don't know the goals and not want to repeat the things that you grew up with. And to do that, you have to kind of separate yourself from that and just know this is who you are and be true to that, and that's kind of what it is. It's like it doesn't matter what they said or what situation you were in. It doesn't mean it has to become who you are. I don't know if I put that very well no, no, no, that is exactly it. It's like going back to the meme of be the two people that you need to impress is the 80 year old you and the eight year old you, yeah, and then you're the person in the middle that's gonna make that. So you break the cycles, yes, you break out of the victim mentality and you just push through that, because you only have one chance at life. You're true, yeah, so you may as well just use every essence of that and make sure that when you get at the end, you're true, yeah, so you may as well just use every essence of that and make sure that when you get at the end, you're not like fuck. I really wish I did that because, like you know what is the point?
Speaker 1:I think also this drive of like ambition comes from, like my nan was so awesome, yeah, she was, she was a pilot and then, oh yeah, I know, but like small-time pilot, like, not like a fancy, she was just a small-time pilot at the local airport, but still, as a woman, being a pilot back then, it's still a big deal, right, it's still a really big deal, super big deal. Except she got married and he pigeonholed her into just having kids and taking away her ambition and making sure that she was at home with the kids. And, like nan played the piano and she played the piano accordion and she was a ceramicist and she made those creepy dolls with the ceramic faces. Oh yeah, the ones that stood in the corner, yeah, fucking weird, she had a whole room of them, like super weird. And teddy bears. She also made teddy bears. Oh my god, there's dolls for me. I had, like she used to give them away and I a couple anyway, the creepy, creepy dolls, um, but she was a super ambitious person. He's really creative, obviously too, yeah, super creative, and someone came along and dimmed that.
Speaker 1:So, like in some essences, I go well, I'm living this life, not just for me, I want to do it for her as well because, like, if I could be awesome, then she could be awesome as well. That's beautiful, ruby. Thanks for sharing that. You know, if you have kids, or you're an aunt, or the people around you, the younger people around you, you're doing it and they're going to look to you in the same way and go well, look at what Ruby did and how amazing she is. Yeah, and you're a great example. I think. I hope so. I think so. I hope so.
Speaker 1:My mouth is not as articulate as what I would hope it would be sometimes. I know you're doing so brilliantly. I think you should be so proud of yourself. Hopefully that doesn't sound condescending. No, no, because I don't. No, it's not condescending.
Speaker 1:I guess you know I've got such the ambition of like and drive. You know the commendation for the interior design graduate from the DIA. You know I was happy, but I'm also like disappointed in myself. Oh, why? Why? Because it's like, not good enough. Oh God, I'm like, I'm so. I am so hard on myself of like. Well, you're always your worst critic, right? 100%, 100%. But yeah, it's amazing that I got accommodation, but like, wish I was the winner. It's okay to be your harshest critic as long as you still realise how well you've done to get to that point, and I think you've got to remind yourself that, how great that is and what an achievement, and not be too hard on yourself. I think it's okay to have a little bit of that. So you've got the drive to kind of keep on going and I love it. Some credit, though, absolutely, and that it means a lot to you. I love that. Something like that means a lot to you as well. I think that's oh, it does. Yeah, I put in a lot of like.
Speaker 1:Going back to your first commentary of like leading you to actually work on schoolwork was 100% true, but like, I guess, yeah, I made a lot of sacrifices. The heart that, yeah, the thing that I put on myself is that I made a lot of sacrifices to do that degree and I really wanted to be the graduate of the year. Yeah, fair. So I'm annoyed at myself that I didn't get there, because that's my goal in uni was to take out Jewel Arts Colour Award. Well, you did that, didn't you? I did that, I did that and to be graduate of the year. So at least I got one of them. Can I go back to? I meant to ask you about this because I won't know a lot about it, but the 30 under 30, that was a great achievement too. Right, that was a great achievement. Why for that? Yeah, I did apply. Okay, so this is like another one of like an opportunity. So I applied, I didn't get in the top 30. Oh, I do know this story. But yes, yeah, I didn't get in the top 30.
Speaker 1:I went to an event at Miele Showroom in South Melbourne I think it's Miele, anyway, one of the brands and Paul was there. So Paul's the runner of Australian Design Review and he came up to me and he was like hi, ruby. And I was like hi, sometimes I completely blink and I'm like trying to fucking work out who you are and where you fit in. He's like congrats on 30th anniversary. I was like, oh, thanks, didn't make it enough. And he was like well, you were 31. You were like you were so close. And he's like but look, we've actually got some spaces to go to Bali and contact me tomorrow. And I'll contact you tomorrow because I've got all your details and I'll send you through the information. So I got to go to Bali and I got the trip. What? Oh, my God, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:I remember that now, yeah, oh, wow, I got the mentoring session and like Ara, who's the state of kin director, is my mentor and like, hands down, that woman is like she's, she's fucking amazing. Yeah, she works so hard and is such a wonderful, genuine person and I am so happy to have, like you know how you have like people in your court, yeah, and like I've got you too, and I have you know, nick, and I have Ara, and like if those are my people that I have that I can always rely on, yeah, then I'm, then I'm, then I'm doing pretty well, yeah, well, that's actually. That's actually brings us to like. A really good point is that if you can find a mentor just to like help you I don't know navigate the industry, that's worth its weight in gold, isn't it? Yeah, or just like someone that you can call up and you're like shit, like this is what happened today. How do I navigate it? Yeah, and that person just turns around and they're like it's okay, I've done this, I've been through this, this is how you can tackle it, don't stress well, and it's just like, oh yeah, thank god, yeah, I'd love to actually want a mentor now.
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, you always just need to bounce ideas and I mean, we were just having a chat before, ruby, weren't we? And it's just like oh, the way I see is like this. And you're like, oh, that's a different point of view, I don't. Oh, okay. So that is really valuable and it's not happened by accident.
Speaker 1:These are relationships that you have worked on, that you have seeked out, so I think that that's a good message for people. Yeah, work on that. It's going to come back. It totally is. And, like you know, when anyone ever messages me on Instagram, I will always do my best to message back and give them like the no bullshit answer. Yeah, like this is what's to expect bullshit answer. And like this is what's to expect. Don't think that it's just making material boards. And then, when people message you, they're like I really want to do your course. And it's like I know you want to do my course because I've succeeded at it, but you have to make a lot of fucking sacrifices. Like that's the point, too, that we haven't really touched on the kind of a big deal is deciding um, which horse to go with, but when you've decided that's what you want to do, there are quite a few different ones out there now aren't there. There's so many out there.
Speaker 1:I think when Lauren and I started, there was really I mean, I don't think there was anything else other than RMIT at the time. Was there Lauren? There might have been Box Hill, but yeah, rmit. I mean the whole process has changed so much it has. We had an interview. Yeah, oh, my gosh. Yeah, so it was maybe a class of maybe 20 or 25. Maybe there was two classes, an A and a B, so limited. Bring back the interviews. I say that's a good idea. It's all changed now it's all gone. There's private, you know. Yeah, it's all changed now it's all gone. There's private, you know. Private. Do that research right. So I think I mean you can kind of go.
Speaker 1:I guess you have to think about what your end goal is Like. Do you want to be doing? You know what sort of interior design you want to be doing, and if you want to know more about that, you can listen to one of our other podcasts talking about all the different types of interior design and all the different industries and versions of. So I think you kind of got to work that out first and then go back and look at the courses and what the content is and also just sort of match it to what you're keen to do, because not everyone wants to do, I guess the more let's say technical side of things, like being able to, you know, design kitchens and bathrooms, they may only want to select the finishes or do the decoration. I think that's sort of how you've got to decide where you want to go in terms of school and then how long you want to do it for too right.
Speaker 1:I think there's a couple of things. There's like, I think, research where you actually want to work, because FLAC will only hire people who have a bachelor and not an associate I think Marty's the same it will specifically say bachelors. My thought was I've already done a bachelor's, don't really need to do it again. Yeah, I think that's true, right, well, the associate degree, I feel, is a really smart choice, yeah. So then it's like what interiors do you want to do? Is the next part, like you were discussing where you want to work, what interiors, and then research it and then work out the amount of time and what skill set you need, what you already have versus what you need to hone your skills on. So the associate degree is excellent, but it focuses heavily on documentation, which is not what the young kids thought it was. They thought it was like the fun stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then when we get into like heavy, I love documentation too. It was so good, I love it. If I got into a zone I would be hand drawing, but I did learn CAD as well, but yeah, I loved all of that. Yeah, when you get in the mood and you're like doing the lighting plan and then the electrical, it's just like, and then you make a really hot documentation pack and then you like you finish it and you look back on it, you're like I am All the pages and yeah, you get in the zone and you've got the music on and you wrap it all up in a bow and you're like done, love it, done.
Speaker 1:And it was like there was nights when I was doing my final two big commercial projects for Ying Yi and I would stay up and listen to Doveset. Okay, this is probably this is really inappropriate, but I'd listen to Doveset. I'd have like the computers running, I'd have all the materials on the Mac and then like be documenting on my PC and then I'd have one and then I'd so the Doveset's like going and your heart rate's going fast and pumping to that, and then I pop anxiety pills to bring me back down to a whole level. I think that's at least something that a 20-year-old can do because, like you know your limits. It's so funny, during one of those all-nighters to finish a project, my music of choice was on Triple J at the time, so you notice they have the particular music night and it was a freaking beat. Oh my God, oh shit. That like got me through that night. It was awesome, like a little dance. Funny, I was doing like the full, you know dancing and then I'd get back into it Hilarious, it's so true, though, like even renovating the house, I'm like, okay, is definitely a Kanye West gold album?
Speaker 1:Yes, we're going back a few years, hopefully Like 2012, I think it was, or 2010. Yeah, that album, that was a good one, that was a good one, that was a solid one. Or is it like 80s, like pop rock day? Yes, so, yeah, I love the music 100%, but I think, yeah, going back to like the course, that's going to work for you. You definitely need to do the research and have all of like the facets that work into it and know that what's going to work for you, and then just not expect, don't expect to exceed, like others, like everyone's got a very singular journey. Yeah, we, we all do it differently. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's intense. Like the associate degree is extremely intense. Like we started with 26, nearly 30 students. By the end of it there was six left.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's something that I think's changed a lot, because when I studied everyone, they might have had a few drop, but now they just drop off like flies. Yeah, I think people just don't have the, I want to say, attention span. I think it's just like people go like no, this isn't for me, and they move on, whereas, yeah, you kind of I think, from a generational point of view, maybe more than anything, we would stick with something because that's kind of what we were taught to do. I mean, I think if you hated it, you gotta leave. But like you're like no, no, we'll see this through. It's kind kind of like what we do, right. But I feel like people just, but also the cost of it, I mean the cost of these degrees, like you know, if you are not loving it, I mean, do you really want to have? I don't even know, like how much they like at least $25,000. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. So that actually plays into it more than it did back when I studied. Oh my gosh, we're sounding really old now, brie. I think really, the universities have changed dramatically in 10 years. In even 10 years, I think it's changed dramatically. You know, the cost has gone up, but yeah, just, I mean even the teachers, the casualisation of all of the teachers. You know, when I studied I had my teachers and I knew that the next semester I'd get those teachers, but now you don't even know who you float in and out, always different. Wow, so it's quite different. Yeah, yeah, it's even starting.
Speaker 1:Doing my first degree, like you could go through your timetable and pick the teacher that you wanted to be with, whereas the associate degree it was like who's gonna be and pick the teacher that you wanted to be with, whereas the associate degree it was like, oh, that's the teacher that, yeah, and they were all really great. Yeah, yeah. So was RMIT? Was that a choice that you made or how did that sort of fit? Or you sort of mentioned before you'd already studied there, so you're in the system. I already studied there and I was like, yeah, good to go. I had to keep my student card of me at 21. And I was like, I looked at it and I was like this is humiliating, like I have developed. That's funny. It was a lull. But yeah, no, I was already in the system and I knew the course was a good course and it was only two years and I didn't want to do a hard slog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think the timeframe is always a big factor in it, especially when you've got like you've had a career you don't really want to necessarily go back for like another three, like nobody's got. No, I think it's really smart of you. You've got to do your research because it is going to be a lot of money, it's a lot of sacrifice, it's a lot of time investment. Go to the universities, ask what the outcomes are. Speak to ex-students Like it's worth doing your research. Because, yeah, I mean I don't want to drop any hard truths right now, but sometimes some students are pretty shocked of what their you know employment opportunities can be. So you've really got to do your research. You really do and then, and then it's how you use it, like it's how you use that degree exactly associate degree or whatever it is like, you know, I've got six other students, but do we know any of their faces, like you know? And there was a cohort before me, do we? So it's just like it's how you utilize that degree to make it more beneficial for you. Yeah, and it's what you want to get out of it. I mean, yeah, you, you've got really big ambitions, um, and that's okay if not everybody has that, and also some people. Some people want to go sort of more under the radar and they want to work on oh, I don't know hospital interiors no, not not the glamorous ones, and it's still really valid fulfilling work as well. Totally, yeah, it is. Do you think we've covered off everything? Yeah, we have a couple of fun questions for you.
Speaker 1:Ruby Goodie, before we jump onto that, we were going to ask Ruby about what she sort of sees to her future. Being like, what's next for you? Ooh, I'm too ambitious. I've actually been like because I turned 30 in a week. I'm like, oh, I really need to change my ambitions because they're too high and the dia thing really like threw me. Oh, um, you'll recover. I will recover, because I keep on telling myself that's 30, I'm going to be doing this for another 20 years. So, like, by the time I'm 50, I can at least look back and be like fuck, yeah, this is what you did. Big goals.
Speaker 1:My best friend said to me the other day. She was like I'm not surprised that you've like, cause her, she's getting married in April. She was like I'm starting to organize my wedding, blah, blah, blah. And I was like okay, here's my to-do list. This is what you need to very moving. How many kids, where are we? She was like oh my God. And her, her fiance, was like how have you already thought about it? And then Annalise was like she's been planning this for like the last four. Like don't, don't underestimate. Oh, she's like, she's like this way, all right.
Speaker 1:So my goals are or like my ambition is Vogue Living. Like, I just want to be published in Vogue Living. That's a beautiful goal, that's like one, it's like a semi-achievable like Vogue Living, just because I aspire that magazine and I've been collecting it for years. And like, just like to be in the glossy pages. Yeah, 80, 100. Oh God, that's like, that's a big one. That's yeah, I love that for you. That's huge. Yeah, that's like I. Just I would love to be in the pages of like Yaz, you know, like, and Black and like Fiona, like, yeah, okay, yes, I would love to be the I think it's the top 50 of Vogue Living. Ah, yes, yeah, yeah, I'd love to be a part of, like the women, women in interiors that issue, that's a nice issue. Yeah, and like you know, the issue that when they did that issue, marty's little blurb so beautiful, and I was like I just want to be like marty.
Speaker 1:I think we should dedicate this episode. Yeah, we should. Marty doherty um, she's gonna be. Here's a burning somewhere, right, yeah, yeah, she's the best. She'd be. Like that's that. Ruby Shield again.
Speaker 1:Oh, amazing, amazing goals. Yeah, she's not finished, she's not finished. We've got more. So I've got more, but that's okay, I'll just wrap it up with, like, obviously, those ambitions you know are under my own studio, because, like, yeah, I think everyone, everyone knows that's the end goal of who I am. Yeah, that's where I'll end up. That makes sense. It's just yeah, yeah, none of those are shocking. I can actually picture them. Yeah, I can actually visualize the ad 101 is like yeah, nah, not, no, I can see that, sorry, like, you've got a hundred percent, I can see it. Yeah, yep, I love it, love that, love that for you, ruby. I can so visualise it.
Speaker 1:So, all right, should we get to our fluffy questions? Yes, so if you're listening on the podcast, this is all you'll hear. If you want to hear the answers to these more personal and interesting questions, you'll have to jump over onto the youtube channel. There's bonus content. Thanks, ruby.
Speaker 1:So, um, thank you guys for listening in and just a quick reminder if you would like some help with the interiors for your own home, I can help you in a course called the style studies essentials. Or for designers out there, come into the design society for business and marketing and all of the things. Yeah, and in the same show notes you'll find a link to sign up for my soon-to-be-released furniture collections, pre-selected furniture collections and cool trend information, and then, in the future, some short courses on styling and trends as well. So, good Bree, we've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you from this podcast today. A big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.