Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
YouTube channel launching soon.
Design Anatomy
Sophie Dries on Embracing the Genius Loci in Interior Design
What happens when the timeless elegance of historical architecture meets the chic allure of contemporary design? Join us as we explore the fascinating world of the new French look, where iconic architectural elements blend seamlessly with modern aesthetics. In this episode, French Architect & Designer Sophie Dries shares the inspiration behind the project that features on the cover of the The New French Look, and reveals the delightful encounter with actress Julianne Moore, whose admiration for Sophie's work led to an unexpected friendship. Using her own apartment as a canvas, she illustrates the delicate balance of honoring traditional Parisian charm while incorporating futuristic pieces by innovative designers like Philippe Starck.
We journey into the heart of interior design with Sophie embracing the "genius loci" (The Spirit of the Place) of a space, the unique spirit that guides the creative process and the client's emotional connection to their home. The magic happens when transparency and collaboration meet, transforming a house into a personal sanctuary. Discover the rich tapestry of stories woven into the character of historical homes and the vital role designers and photographers play in capturing these narratives through evocative imagery. Each space tells a story, and we explore how personal touches and historical context can create interiors that resonate on a deeply meaningful level.
Perfection is overrated. Rather, it's the imperfections, the handcrafted, sustainably made objects, that truly define luxury in design. Sophie sheds light on the tactile experience of natural materials and their profound impact in a technology-driven world. From cultural differences in appreciating these nuances to the challenge of managing client expectations, this episode celebrates the evolution and innovation in architecture. Sophie discusses understanding and valuing our past, so we pave the way for future interpretations, inspiring creativity and experimentation in design.
Join us as we uncover the beauty hidden in imperfections and the limitless potential it unleashes in the world of interior design with this inspiring discussion with Sophie Dries.
About Sophie....
"After working with prestigious architecture and design offices such as Jean Nouvel, Pierre Yovanovitch and Christian Liaigre, Sophie created her studio in Paris in 2014 and then opened a second address in Milan in 2017."
"Sophie Dries was one the top 100 AD designers selected of 2022 & one of the 100 Phaidon’s World Best Interior designer and AD & Land Rover Awards."
Follow along on her instagram & website to see her bea
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
If you're sitting at your desk about to send a fee proposal and you'd just like to run it by someone else first? Or have you ever had a client dilemma and it just doesn't feel right but no one you know understands (except for the dog)?
And do you wonder why you're not raking it in when you're practically living at your desk, busting your creative chops 'round the clock?
These are the things we're diving into with a small group of designers just like you. And so much more in THE CONVERSATION CIRCLE
YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST
So I was just trying to remember how I first came across your work and I don't think I could really pinpoint where it was, but I think I've been following you for a while and, yeah, I think it was just researching for the book, coming across your work and just thinking that is it. Like, that is the new French look, you know, because it really brings in, like those, obviously the historical architecture. But then you know, with your um, you know, this space, it's got like a really contemporary artwork and it's got these really quite unique um furniture, um, it's got that handmade, you know, bespoke element and it just ticked all the boxes basically. So I was so thrilled when you agreed to share your beautiful projects with me. Um, so I think that was, yeah, probably the first, and it's been so lovely, like you know, back and forth with all of our emails and everything to get the yes, I really appreciate it. Um, and one really cool thing that happened was that, um, I think it must have been through you.
Speaker 1:The actress Julianne Moore reached out to me. Oh, that's right. Oh my goodness, she did. How huge is that? She's so nice. She just slid into my DMs.
Speaker 2:Really she's so nice and she's really, yeah, she's so nice, she's a true designer. So, long story short, she mentioned my name in an article in Wallpaper Magazine and I didn't know, like, as like architects and designers, she liked, and a friend sent it to me and I was on my way to Los Angeles just for holidays actually and I was like, oh, come on, this is just a sign from Karma. So I DMed her like, thank you for mentioning my work, I'm a big fan, but I just thought that she had a manager oh my gosh, she does it personally, Wow.
Speaker 2:And she immediately responds I love your work, let's try to meet. So super yeah, super, super nice, yeah, super, super nice. And last day I was in a charity event for art in New York and she was there and I didn't want to interrupt her and thanks for her. But I wanted to say that I love your work. I truly am so honored. And now we discuss more.
Speaker 3:I imagine her to be adorable.
Speaker 2:I also have a bit of a thing for redheads. She's truly adorable and truly designed over.
Speaker 1:She's beyond gorgeous, isn't she? She is, I love her Well.
Speaker 2:I remember seeing one of her?
Speaker 1:I think it was one of her.
Speaker 2:New York apartments.
Speaker 1:I've got an image. It's saved from like 2008 or I don't know, from years ago. I was like I love that. But yeah, it was such a wonderful surprise and she just said she really loved the book and we've been friends ever since. Well, not really so close, so close friends, we're really close.
Speaker 3:That's our next design tour. Where does she live, lauren?
Speaker 1:I've actually got her address because she gave me her home address she's in New York.
Speaker 3:Oh, we're totally doing New York next. We're going to rock up. She's going to connect us with all the right people. New York, yes, and then I'll get to meet my redhead, an old fangirl. Yeah, she's great yes. No, I think, yeah, design is a route. Yeah, that's so true. I love that so much about design. We kind of end up on a path right and, um, I don't know, you come across things that maybe you hadn't expected to. But that's part of the beauty of what we do absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:yes, she came first time she saw maybe you too. It was because I was publishing T Magazine like my personal apartment and it was like a big exposure.
Speaker 3:Of course it was my apartment.
Speaker 2:So it was quite radical what I could do in there, but it's exactly what you described now and it's a mix of traditional context, very Parisian Love that mix. It's a mix of traditional context, a very Parisian building apartment with super contemporary furniture and art. That's what I like to do to play on this sort of real balance between the respect of tradition and trying to be in our and I think you've got some really cool Philip Stark pieces in there too, and so maybe they're not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're sort of not yeah.
Speaker 2:One here, like this big, big bookshelf. I bet I have quite many yes, 90s and 80s pieces.
Speaker 1:They're so forward. They're so forward looking Like they're very sort of almost futuristic, but yeah, really good. Good mix like a really nice mingle of different eras. It's so nice.
Speaker 3:I think that's my favorite thing about european design in general, not just um french style, is that ability to be able to mix that tradition, particularly the architecture of a space which is often a lot older than what we have to do within Australia with those contemporary pieces. I think there's a real skill in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true, true, we can live in a very old building. My building is 250 years old and sometimes in Italy, I lived in 550 years old, 500 years old buildings or palazzos. And what's interesting is to create this type of contrast Regarding the Phoenix Dark or the 90s furniture. To me, they are related to my nostalgia of my childhood because I was born in the late 80s. I think my nostalgia of vintage is not the 50s genre or the mid-century, which is more the generation of older internal designer than me. That inspired me a lot, but I don't relate to this nostalgia.
Speaker 2:I don't have that in my childhood memories of my grandfather's house or my parents' house, but the 1980s it was really also in the tv shows that I was watching and I I realized now by watching again, the, the first beetle juice by the by team it's full of 80s furniture from yes, oh, the whole aesthetic crazy yes, also the fashion yes, like I could go on and on.
Speaker 2:So I have all this. That's why I try to blend within my interiors also these vintage pieces that are not yet I mean now. They are since five years ago. I feel like 80s is vintage now right, yeah, absolutely. Now it's vintage. Even 90s it's vintage too.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Now it's vintage, even 90s, 90s too, yes, but now they are also in the market. That design dealers. It's Design my Main Pair is next week and design dealers now also sell 80s and 90s vintage. It's more to me to relate to my own nostalgia.
Speaker 1:I love that Love, that Nostalgia is like such a big part. Well, for me it's a big part of design. But I'm just curious, like, how do you work with other clients that like that idea of nostalgia, but you're tapping into their idea of nostalgia Do?
Speaker 2:you ever to their age. So, as I mentioned, the clients on the cover of your book is a genius in tech, so he was one of my youngest clients. He was in his 20s when I did the apartment, so we could go on like 80s and 90s.
Speaker 3:Some of my clients.
Speaker 2:they are 70s, so those type of 80s furniture they had it at the time For them. It's not those, they don't have the same connection right. They've been there, done that, it's really either they really like the pieces, and they can even in old collections sometimes to find some of these pieces, or, and if they have beautiful mid-century pieces, I love them too. I mean, I'm not against beautiful pieces, even from Art Deco or from.
Speaker 3:Art Deco? Yeah, of course I like off-match pieces.
Speaker 2:I love Jean-Michel Franck and et cetera.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I don't fantasize them or I try not to make it as a fetish, sure, because I think not in the 30s and 40s, and I think we have to look at your and to support your, your designers that are working today, and I think that what I found when I was putting the book together is that that was one of the.
Speaker 1:The elements was that nothing like the rooms weren't too precious, nothing, nothing's put on a pedestal, it's lived in Like you've got your Philip Starck, you know, chairs or they might not all be that comfortable, but they look cool, but you can sit on it. True, I'm sorry, but they look amazing.
Speaker 3:But that sort of relates to like the era, relates to how relaxed it is too Like if you talk about pieces from the 30s and 40s they're probably antique and maybe a little more precious right? When you talk about vintage pieces from the 80s and 90s, we can be way more relaxed with them, don't you think? Like they're less precious right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because also it was another industry that in the 30s and 40s. Every piece is handmade.
Speaker 3:A little more fragile.
Speaker 2:And absolutely. And it was made of wood, it was made of lacquer and et cetera, and in the 80s I mean since the 70s there is an industry of furniture and it was made to be moved many times Also, like you can move it from a house to another. You can move from a room to another.
Speaker 3:Durability became more of a factor right Than it was before.
Speaker 2:It's another way to live with. Yes, and what Lauren said the design is quite pure and radical. So it's true that it's not as comfortable as in the 30s, where we could stay four hours in one armchair. Yes, or you can have a quicker lunch or quicker dinner on this type of chair.
Speaker 1:But you know what I find it comfortable for my eyes to look at, oh, my God, I love that.
Speaker 3:It's a whole different level of comfort, right I?
Speaker 1:find it comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's more about being on the move than just being sitting somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, I was looking at your website, sophie, and there was this really interesting term that I had not heard before. Can you help me understand? It was called Genius Loki. Genius Loki, it was a Latin term. Loki, yes, yeah, yes, and it was about the spirit of a place. How does that kind of inform your projects?
Speaker 2:Yes, so it's a very important term. So that's why I use the original term, the latin one, genius loki, uh, which is about the genius of the space. So the spirit of the space, um, of the location, uh, because to me, even though I did, I don't know how many like osmanian apartments that can be similar. They are always different because they are always unique. The light is unique in each of them because they are located in the same directions, in the same building, and also it's about the people living in. So to me, every project is so unique because it's about where it is.
Speaker 2:So you have to understand the future of the place, the history of the place, the vibe. Because it's about where it is. So you have to understand the future of the place, the history of the place, the vibe. So it's very, it's something you have to experience, you have to build these things. And then about the owner, because everybody's different. Even though most of the design I do homes for families or couples, sometimes for singles Every scenario is different. So you always have to tell a new story, even though it's always like a master bedroom and master street and kitchen and dining, but you have to tell those people's story in this exact space.
Speaker 2:I love that I sometimes say that, making the house of someone as an NJR designer is like making the portrait of someone it will look like the person, but I will be the author and it will be my piece of art that's such a brilliant analogy.
Speaker 2:I love that that we have to have a conversation together to reach the point of. It looks like you, but it's, by me, so good. So good Because you are both in the industry and you know that most of the people, especially today, with beautiful books you do, or internet or magazines, people sometimes feel very entitled to be their own designer. But they call us to have some help. But it's very different what we do. We are not just helping people making their home, we are really making their home to help them to live there but, not to be assisting them, as they would be the interior designer of the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true, it's very important to explain at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true. It's very important to explain at the beginning. There is a big educational preparation work to say we're going to work together this way, not that you have the ideas and I help you with the technical matter, because this is not what we do. What we do is beyond. We also, as we discussed about furniture, give them like a bit of history of why the pieces are there, what are the reference behind it, what are the materials and the technique at the time. So it's really a path we do together where they learn a lot from our knowledge.
Speaker 3:Do you talk to the client about this idea of the genius Loki? I had heard of it before but I didn't really fully understand it until I went and did a little Googling and read and understood sort of the idea of of it and I actually really love it because it's something that we probably all intrinsically do as designers. But we didn't know there was this term like the spirit of a place, and it can mean so many things. Obviously you know the history of it is the, the guardian spirit of a place, but for us, when we, when we go into a home or into any kind of space, it's the, the essence of it, and so many things make that up.
Speaker 3:I think you touched on you know just the light in the place, you know the history of it and then who occupies it now and what they do and how they use the space. That all affects that spirit of it and that still I think can connect back to the idea of a guardian spirit, like even someone who's moved into a new home. That has the history. They then kind of take that on. But when you're talking to a client initially, do you, do you kind of like talk about that or is that kind of just something that you keep for yourself to work on, or do they sort of get to think about what that is?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm a very transparent person, so you you know what I, what I feel, quite immediately I'm very expressive, so I'm I've been to, to, to the space, and it's definitely related to what was the space before. I try sometimes not to research too much and to go there and to have just. Most of the time when we visit, we visit with the client because we have access thanks to them. It's a few reasons together. They've been there, usually already before me, but I'm very transparent about what I feel.
Speaker 2:So recently I work on the 20th building in Paris that was owned by and commissioned by Elena Rubinstein, so she was also an Australian famous character and she lived in Paris.
Speaker 2:Yes, and in the 20th she was living in Paris and she built one building where there were artists to do because she was supporting artists, and she had a house there and my client bought one piece of the building that used to be the living room, and so after that, another lady lived there. She was a collector and redesigned part of it in the 80s, and my client is very sensitive also to design and story and so it was interesting for both of us to understand that those important women living there and we discussed that. So we were totally aligned on this. Some clients are not at all sensitive to what happened before they buy, like a real estate asset, and then we talk more about features, that about the design. I take it in consideration, even though sometimes clients are not very connected to it, but most of the time they are Because they buy a place also because it's sort of a crush they have on some place, especially for your home. It's definitely going down to your heart, yes, so true.
Speaker 2:When you buy a place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that you know it is hard to describe. You know the spirit of the place and that's why it's such a great term. And you're right, some clients are in tune with that and some clients are just not. Where I'm living now.
Speaker 1:The lady lived here for her whole life and she actually wrote two books in this house as well, um, and it's just got such a feel of writing spirit I do, but, um, she was like a very smart lady so hopefully some of that will come, but it's just yeah I'm sure it does but it is I mean. And also on the flip side, I've been to some clients' homes where I'm like I can't wait to get out of this place, like there is not a good vibe here.
Speaker 1:I hate that and that can be a bit challenging as well. But yeah, it is a hard thing to deal with, like put into words, and also sometimes in photography it's hard to capture that feeling as well. So true yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that's what almost makes a good photographer. I think if the photographer can capture yes, genius, low-key of a place, they are a good photographer. Not everyone can do it. Yes, I think, as I said before, it's like an intrinsic, it's like something that it's quite intuitive to do. I don't think you can learn that. I think you either see those things and know how to capture them or you don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, same for portraits. I go to a photographer that is able to show somebody's personality just through a portrait, like a still image, but you can see a lot of the personality of the person.
Speaker 2:Yes, true, what's deep inside, and you're right about interiors. It's usually two years. Renovation of hard work then is summarized in some certain images and and things to to the photographers, and it's it's same. It's a very personal relationship that we have with photographers to to have to show our work. I usually, before shooting, have a big conversation about what are their hopes and to also show in the final images the story that was behind and usually years of relationship with the clients.
Speaker 1:It can be kind of a push and pull with that, because I've found shooting my projects. I really love to be able to tell the story of the client and put in some of those personal pieces. But then sometimes when you're shooting a project and you want to get it published, all of those lovely personal things are the first things to get taken out of a shot.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:The personal item. Yeah, so it's really hard. Sometimes I'm just like, oh, stuff it. I just want to tell the story of the client and I feel like other clients that are looking at it might think well, that's not my taste, but I can see that there's a mix of things. I don't know. It is a bit of a hard one, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Oh, I understand exactly where you're coming from. That can be quite tricky, but yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think it's really interesting, like's almost like the spirit of the person as well, and it just depends on the project Boost together. Yeah, sometimes you have this architecture that is so amazing that that's the thing. And then sometimes you might have a new build or something or just a nice place, but it's the person and you're like, oh my gosh, we have to tell your story Like I don't care if that isn't and they're injecting their spirit into that, like if it's something reasonably new.
Speaker 3:They are starting the history of that home or that space. Yeah, true, by injecting that into it and you're kind of helping them do that, you're helping create the genius loggy.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and to involve them in this part, they like their interiors even more and they trust you more. I agree you said like 80s design or some materials that was never experienced. If you involve the clients in the story behind an interior, then we would go together on this way of lots of surprises and adventures.
Speaker 1:Oh, I agree. And it's just so much more fun and so much more easy, easier, when, yeah, you can bring in a story like I have these clients and they lived in New York, so he really, and he was American, so he really identified with that. So, anyway, we wove that story into their space, into their space and when they can say, this is a light fitting here, it's actually made in Brooklyn, blah, blah, blah, like they're just so connected to it and it's just so wonderful, it's more than what it looks like. It has.
Speaker 1:That connection and guess what, the invoices get paid and everything starts to happen a lot easier. So if you're sort of fighting with it, you have to.
Speaker 2:And also I realized for pieces that we make for clients, they really need to understand how is it made yes it's crafted by hand.
Speaker 2:where was it made? How long did it take all the processes for? Let's take an example of of a wood table that, okay, this is michael, he's making your table and he works by hand and he put a layer of this varnish and this veneer and etc. Then people can understand, first the delay, definitely the price, because it's handmade and it's precious materials and they are sourced in a very clean way, respecting the environment, and also they are very happy to share it with their guests as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah they love the story.
Speaker 2:Right Happy to share the stories and to live with the pieces. I say, yeah, you can find in any shop a cheaper table, but this table will be yours. This table, you will live with it. If it's damaged you can repair it because it's natural material. We can always send it back to the workshop that is next door and not at the other side of the world. Yeah, you've got Michael's phone number, you get Michael's phone number and also you can give it to your children after all, because it's a valuable object.
Speaker 2:This is the thing right, it's more expensive first, but it lasts longer and it's really yours.
Speaker 3:It becomes a sustainability issue as well. When you have a story behind an object, you are way less likely to go okay, this is hard rubbish. I'm just going to give this away. I'm going to put it on. In Australia, it's marketplace where we sell stuff that's, you know, just that we want to get rid of. That doesn't happen when you're invested in how something's made and brought together and what the materials are and where it's from. All of those things.
Speaker 3:So it becomes like it's almost a kind of a responsibility thing as well, when you can connect that directly back to sustainability for sure.
Speaker 1:And plus I think Michael would get hurt feelings if he saw his table on Marketplace.
Speaker 3:Poor Michael we won't tell him yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that is like the definition of luxury, though, when you know the name of the person that's made your pieces like that is just so incredible.
Speaker 3:It is but that doesn't necessarily I mean.
Speaker 3:Obviously there is a cost involved in handmade pieces that are made by someone like a craftsman, but it doesn't mean exorbitant amounts it just means that you're like you know it could be just your local person, that you know that's a joiner in your area or in your state, um, or you know just local right, and that doesn't have to mean like ridiculous amounts of money. The luxury is the privilege of knowing who had their hands on this piece and crafted it for you. Like I love that you're right.
Speaker 2:And also patience, because it's not okay you click in and the day after it's in your room.
Speaker 3:That's a challenge right.
Speaker 2:That would be yours, yes, yes. And also I try in my interiors and also my furniture work to do something very textured, related to the material that people then, when they have it in their room and I do that myself all the time I touch my furniture I like to put my hands on it, I get it. I want to have a relationship to the material because today our life is so digital, so abstract, so unreal that we need to have grounded experience. And I think the objects that you live in and we know that since the pandemic that interiors have been more and more important to people Indeed the relationship to the materials. That's why I always use natural materials and I can work on the texture. The tactile experience is so important. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Couldn't agree more, Sophie.
Speaker 2:And it's not something that you sometimes see on pictures. So I try also to write a conversation with the photographer to say look closer to this texture, Try to give the impression of touch to the people who look at this picture. I love that, because to me it was a hard work, also to yeah to show this material, if it's soft, if it's like I work a lot with in ceramics, in wood or or some textures in plaster.
Speaker 1:I really want people to have a feeling of touch, even when they look at pictures well, that is so true, because those pieces that you just released, it's that material, those juxtaposition of that rough texture. Are they the candle holders that you did?
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, in many of my pieces there are like sorts of a contrast and I like paradox of rough materials with precious materials. So I've done some mirrors in plaster with inlays of rust. I've done some glassworks with inlays of minerals that are precious, but then the glass is completely organic and with a random shape. There's some candle holders that are in minerals and with brass, and the minerals are quite rough or they can be some sort of very raw materials with very sharp lines so it creates a contrast and each of them comes differently because every mineral is unique and for ceramic the textures also.
Speaker 2:you see some ceramics behind me. The textures are really important. They are handmade so every time they come different, they are cooked and then after the other are made. So I like that people feel that items can be unique because they are handmade and we are unique as well, because we are all different from each other. And you can add to items and interiors if you approach that in this way of getting to feel them.
Speaker 1:So true. Well, you know what I find sometimes with clients here and I don't know if it's the same in France but clients want perfection. They want a stone benchtop that will never stain. They want, you know, wall carpets that don't tuft. They want a wood grain that's like that one, but not like that one. Is that an approach? Do people in France have a better understanding? Do you think of those natural imperfections being part of the beauty?
Speaker 2:I think it's because of the perfection of the images now that are in magazines, on social networks. So I try to educate also my clients when we have the discussion during the project and say you know, it's exactly like going to the hairdresser and say I want to look like Kate Moss. It's not possible because all the images that you see in magazines and we know because we do completely restyled, completely post-produced, and it's not reality.
Speaker 3:It's not real life.
Speaker 2:And also the beauty of material is when they age.
Speaker 3:So you have to.
Speaker 2:You really have to love the perfection, because the beauty of nature marble is about imperfection. It's about water that went into stones centuries ago and that beauty.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 2:So ember is an imperfection because it just fossilized the trees you know elements, so beauty most of the time comes from imperfection.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's a really great example to use, even to explain to clients. I agree with Lauren over here. I think my theory behind it is that in Europe there's age, so there's imperfection from age, so you see it all the time and you just accept and understand that as part of your aesthetic. In Australia there's less of that, so there's a lot of newness. So when you have a lot of newness you notice the imperfections so much more and you see them as almost a negative, not a positive, whereas I think if you kind of teach the client that some of those best things, those beautiful materials and why they're beautiful, is because they're actually imperfect. They're not perfect at all. They've been created over time and that's what creates that beautiful imperfection, that is what they love. I think maybe teaching them that is a really good kind of way to explain why the imperfection actually to embrace it.
Speaker 2:You have beautiful nature. So you can also relate to and say look, nature is beautiful because it's not geometric and neat look. Nature is beautiful because it's not geometric and neat, it's beautiful because of the perfection of what elements are brought there.
Speaker 2:And having a house, very wabi-sabi, is also trying to reproduce this imperfection of nature, this concept, this Japanese concept of what is having Me. I'm interested also in kintsugi about that repaired objects are more beautiful than non-broken objects. Yes, that part of the history of the object is making it more interesting and more beautiful and more consistent, and I think it's the same with people.
Speaker 3:It is People who are just like perfect. Are robots so cute?
Speaker 2:And we will be surrounded by robots soon.
Speaker 3:So it's important that we are imperfection. Imperfection will become luxury. If everything becomes very digital right, and perfect and over-engineered is probably a good way to put it. Then imperfections will become the new luxury.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and even I keep this gimmick yeah, it's a good way to explain it to clients and sometimes what I'll do, like the whole marble staining conversation try to romanticize it and I'll say you know, have you ever been to paris and been to a little bistro and the the marble of the countertop and it's not covered, it's like used, it's beautiful, like that's just part of life and living, but it's a hard thing to sell, but we try.
Speaker 1:And I was also thinking about, you know, talking about the spirit of a place and putting it into. I guess for me, when I hear that term, you know, in Australia, when we talk about, maybe, the spirit of a place, it could almost lean into talking about First Nations people. And you know, we might not have like hundreds and hundreds of years of built, you know architecture, but you know Australia has the oldest continuous living culture in the whole world, which is something really beautiful to celebrate. Um, so it's, it's just an interesting different take on it. You know it's, yeah, australia is a new country, but you know it's very, very old in some other ways as well true, we should be leaning into that probably a lot more yeah, I think we might be starting to um, but yeah, it's a really, it's a really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just point um when I was and I guess, like respecting history and the context, you know, um, that's what I found researching the book. And in australia we love to knock down old buildings.
Speaker 3:Well, some of us love to.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. I mean and to find old building as well, you know.
Speaker 3:Well, that's the thing too. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:But even I feel, like you know mid-century houses, like there's something definitely worthy in those buildings and they're not that old. But I just feel like that approach in France, do you think that's different? Do you think there is a lot more respect for old buildings and what is old in France compared to….
Speaker 2:Yes, we also have. Like, we have administrations for that. Like monuments and historical buildings are protected and definitely we renovate much more than we build. Sure, Most of the architects are working on renovation in cities like Paris or big cities, and I in Italy and I still have my connection with the studio there that in Italy it's even more than in France that really preserving what's in place is the main activity of the architecture and interiors industry.
Speaker 2:Carpenters are extremely careful because they learn by renovating historical buildings historical, like I mean historical furniture and when I go to them to ask them to do contemporary, they are most of the time extremely enthusiastic because they have done this. Okay, murano glass technique forever. Or this gold leaf restoration forever. And when I come and I say with gold leaf, uh, molding, restoration forever. And when I come and I say with gold leaf, let's do kintsugi, they are like okay, it's fun, let's try. I know we don't understand why you want to do that. We never know that, but we and that and that's why I'm extremely lucky to have in france and italy these kids that are still alive because of the restoration business that is going on Right, and also it's full of knowledge for us to look at historical techniques and not dare to say what's in the past is not, it's old-fashioned.
Speaker 2:I think what was relevant in the past, what could be the equivalent today of this technique, for example, I love Jean-Michel Franck in the 30s and he was a total punk at the time. He was destroying the moldings and all the traditional decors and said we have to go minimal. So can you imagine for extremely bourgeois like the Noir and the Rubinstein and all those people, it was a big shock. And even Jean Cocteau said when you see someone that has an entire by Jean-Michel Franck, you think it just got robbed, that it's so minimal. I haven't heard that before. And yes, and in my opinion today I haven't heard that before. And yes, and in my opinion today we have to understand. What Jean-Michel Franck meant at the time is not to do Jean-Michel Franck today. It's to be the punk of today with the bourgeois codes and trying to be disruptive. And I'm not saying I do that now, but that's my ambition to try to be really disruptive, but by understanding the codes.
Speaker 2:So when my interior is very classic, it's classic with moldings, but I try to disrupt by keeping the symmetry and the general scheme and organization of classical places but to put very contemporary materials, contemporary art, involving my community of creative people of today. So it's probably different in Australia that you have less historical places, but I think you should relate also to your history. That is different with native people.
Speaker 3:It's sort of about evolution, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but evolution always has the roots of what happened before.
Speaker 3:Yes, you need to understand it.
Speaker 2:It's not to erase.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, and there's always that fine line and I do feel like, as Lauren said, I think in Australia there is a bit of an issue of erasure. It's like if we say heritage in Australia, we're thinking you know 30s, 40s, maybe 50s, and then it kind of slows right down where people are missing the fact that the 60s buildings, 70s buildings, 80s buildings, probably 90s buildings that also need to be protected and respected, and that I don't think is happening. It's like there's kind of like this full stop of what's considered to be heritage and then, oh, that's new, but it's not new.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would even say Art Deco is where we're knocking it down.
Speaker 3:Art Deco buildings, which is sad. Oh, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:I really liked reading on your website that you're inspired by the age of Enlightenment and contemporary art, and I'm so curious.
Speaker 3:It just sounds like a movie to me. Age of Enlightenment.
Speaker 1:Is that a movie?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could be, I'm sure it is. It could be. Yeah, yeah, peter Greenaway did a movie about one architect of the Enlightenment. It's called the Belly of the Architect.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm going to watch that now.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's an 80s movie, but it's about the era of Enlightenment, so it's the French Revolution, so end of 18th century, and at the time there were extremely radical architects called Boulay and Le Doubs and they were doing very abstract shapes inspired by actually antique buildings, by Roman and Greek temples, but in very contemporary shapes. And it was a moment of crisis. We were trying to cut the head of our kings and to say, okay, there are no more more different layers of society and not an aristocrat and bourgeoisie have to be shakedown. And so it was a moment of crisis, of course, for architecture, because definitely the buildings are commissioned by rich aristocrats, the bourgeoisie and the aristocrat classes. So architects didn't have much work at the time, so they were designing a lot of paper and also this era is called paper architecture.
Speaker 2:They were designing extremely crazy buildings and that were never built because they couldn't need anymore any hotel particuliers, because there were no commissions by the rich classes, because they were fighting for their rights at the time yeah, they were locked in jail cells and so the production of the drawings are extremely interesting, and I sometimes dig in there or be inspired for my work, because I think we are also now in the crisis of spending Because of sustainability because, of recession, we have to be more creative in the design than ever, and we have new tools that are technology, 3d drawings.
Speaker 2:Now we have artificial intelligence, so I think we are also in this time of let's think about what we put out in the world, and those radical shapes are extremely interesting too. I should look at one of the vase here. It's a pure columns, and for me it's inspired either by primitive tribal artifacts and by this 18th century Enlightenment era architecture, and one of my items that I have designed for a perfume brand is called the Olfactory Column. This is inspired by Ludo. What is the infinite broken column? The infinite broken columns? Yeah, to me all these influences. I try to put them in my work today, but they are not direct references. I'm not doing like exactly the 30s copycat of something, because I don't see the point. I mean, the architects of the 30s and 40s were very skeptical and I prefer to but also, it doesn't mean that it's exactly relevant now.
Speaker 3:You can take that inspiration and and rethink it, for now, right, it's still. There's relevance in um. You know, obviously history has a tendency to repeat itself. Um and the age of enlightenment, you know, a lot of it was to do with individualism, wasn't it? So there's a lot of kind of like um pushing the boundaries and like pushing back against authority, which is kind of relevant at the moment. But I love how that's kind of informing your ideas. But, yeah, that don't have to be copies of that. It's like your own interpretation, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, it was philosophical reflection at the time about authority and about what is it to be a human, what is it to to be able to think by yourself? Yes, and I think, in the technological era that we are, it's very important to think about that as well.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like the I love that those themes become relevant.
Speaker 3:Sorry, Lauren.
Speaker 1:Well, I was just going to say it's kind of like the spirit of the era. So we've sort of talked about the spirit of the place, the spirit of the person and the spirit of an era. That's so true, it's really cool, it's all about the spirit yeah that's what German people call the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2:Yes that's exactly it, the spirit of the times, you know, and what's the zeitgeist in our days? Like, just well, yeah, you have to feel what's going on.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And to understand what's going on, you have to understand the past. Yes, be very, very focused on what's now and what's next. And sometimes in my interiors or my design, I experience things. Sometimes they fail, it's okay, but I try to experience and not just do what was already done before, because it's just being a composer where you can play perfectly with art but you are not Daft Punk. You know, some people can create new music and that's what's relevant in the future.
Speaker 1:It's what you create now that is new and you know there's no creating something new without a few failures along the way, like that's just innovation, so oh, that's so cool. Risk yeah, you've got to take those risks and you know you've got to have that space and that time for creativity, which?
Speaker 2:brings me to my next question.
Speaker 1:So we are going to have this podcast on youtube as well and we can flash up some images so people can see what we're talking about. And these next questions we're going to pop onto our YouTube channel so for everybody listening on the podcast. Thank you, guys, so much.
Speaker 3:And we'll see you over on YouTube, thank you.