Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
YouTube channel launching soon.
Design Anatomy
Redefining Luxury: Nickolas Gurtler on Personal Style and Timeless Design
Renowned interior designer Nickolas Gurtler invites us to rethink the concept of luxury in our homes. He shares his unique experiences working on projects like a menopause clinic and a lively New York apartment, emphasizing that luxury is a personal journey, not just a display of wealth. Discover how Nickolas's perspective on luxury intertwines comfort, functionality, and personal flair, as well as the growing appeal of vintage pieces. With recent accolades such as a Vogue feature and a new book project, Nickolas offers listeners a peek into the creative mind behind stunning, personalized spaces.
Our conversation takes an empowering turn as we explore design's transformative power, particularly for women. Drawing inspiration from the timeless elegance of Monica Bellucci and the charm of 1970s Milanese style, we discuss the symbolism of red lipstick and the importance of redefining menopause. Nickolas shares insights from his collaborations with luxury brands like Tiffany & Co., Chanel, and Gucci, illustrating how luxury can enhance daily rituals through quality materials and thoughtful design. We delve into the role of vintage influences and personalized touches in creating spaces that not only look luxurious but feel it too.
The journey continues with a focus on sustainability in luxury design, where we highlight the importance of timeless choices and the craftsmanship of bespoke lighting. Uncover how Australian designers like Christopher Boots are redefining lighting as the "jewelry of a project," enhancing a home's ambiance and exclusivity. This episode celebrates the subjective nature of luxury, encouraging listeners to embrace indulgent and quirky choices that bring joy and happiness to their living spaces. Nickolas leaves us with the idea that true luxury isn't just about aesthetics but about the soul and character infused into every corner of a home.
Check out Nick's Social Media on Instagram & his Website
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
Need an expert to guide you on how to create your DREAM home? Join the Style Studies Essentials course, learn more: STYLE STUDIES ESSENTIALS
Hey designers, let's get you working on amazing projects, increase your fees and straighten out your process. Lauren Li helps interior designers at all stages of their career inside THE DESIGN SOCIETY
YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers.
Speaker 2:Me, b Banfield and me, Lauren Li, with some amazing guest appearances along the way.
Speaker 1:We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.
Speaker 2:With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and lived-in spaces. We're excited to share our insights and inspiration with you and in this really engaging conversation with Nickolas Gurtler, an accomplished interior designer. He shares insights into the essence of luxury in interior design. He discusses his recent projects, including a unique menopause clinic that was unexpected, and elaborates on how luxury transcends mere opulence into encompassing comfort, functionality and personal expression.
Speaker 1:It was an interesting one the menopause clinic, I must admit, but I'm quite fascinated to see that one. We discuss how personal taste influences design choices and the evolving perception of luxury, emphasising the value of vintage pieces and the need for harmony in design. The conversation highlights the idea that luxury is subjective and can be defined differently by each person. Yeah, that was probably one of the biggest outtakes, I think, from the discussion. The definition of luxury definitely changes from person to person, I think.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, it was so great to hear Nickolas's
Speaker 2:you know interpretation of luxury. It's not just all about gold shiny things, is it?
Speaker 1:No, definitely not. While we're talking about luxury, I am saying to come and have a look at the show notes and our offers down there and links to the other work that we do which could be luxurious in your opinion. I have a link there to the newsletter for information on what I've got coming up, which will be design packages that are available and trend information weekly and also some short courses that we'll be releasing.
Speaker 2:So sign up to know more about that Gorgeous and yeah, I think that really ties into that. You know that idea of luxury and being a personal thing for you, what that is for you, and you know with your furniture collections you can create that idea of luxury in your own home, that you've got Bree sort of guiding you and holding your hand and giving you those amazing resources, which is beautiful, yes, I think we all you know deserve to have a little level of luxury in our lives Very much, if we can, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and before we get started, I'll just remind you guys that in the Design Society this year we are kicking off our mentor groups, very small groups, with like-minded designers. We're just trying to live a creative life and be profitable and do our best work together. So it's a beautiful way just to, yeah, not feel so alone out there. All right, without any further ado, let's dive into this fantastic conversation with Nickolas Gurtler.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Welcome, nick. We are going to be talking today with Nickolas Gurtler, amazing interior designer, about what makes a luxury interior. But before we dive into that, we also love to ask, Nick, what have you been up to lately? Anything interesting to report?
Speaker 3:Well, thank you both for having me. I'm very excited to be here. What have I been working on? We've been doing so much in the lead up to the end of the year. Actually, I'm working on apartments in New York and in Sydney, houses in Perth, brisbane. Melbourne and Perth a lighting showroom, a dental practice, a little perfume project. There's a little fun passion one on the side. So yeah, I've been working quite a bit and we just completed a really exciting medical project which is going to be in Vogue in January. So stay tuned.
Speaker 3:That's so exciting, very exciting project, probably the most significant one I've done personally in my career. And we just celebrated the nine year birthday of the business last week.
Speaker 1:Yes, you did, congratulations Thank you.
Speaker 3:I was just elected to the Victorian Council for the Design Institute of Australia, so that's really exciting.
Speaker 2:Congratulations.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I'm hoping to really make some change in the industry. So yeah, I'm really really excited about that, and the last thing I'm doing is I'm starting work on my book to celebrate 10 years. So, lots of balls in the air.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is impressive that is impressive.
Speaker 1:So many things and they're not like just a couple of things. And here's one big thing. They're all quite huge.
Speaker 3:We try. I'm an overachiever, always have been.
Speaker 2:So can. I just Sorry go.
Speaker 3:Lauren.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just going to say so many things that you just mentioned then. But can I ask you about the New York apartment, like, how did you score? A project in New York.
Speaker 3:I was over there. As you guys know, my partner lives there, so I was over in New York in July and just through social media, basically it's a little. It's a small project, but it's an exciting one, working in an old heritage warehouse conversion apartment, so it should be really fun. A little bit colourful yeah, it should be fun. So we'll be completing that in the early part of next year.
Speaker 1:That's exciting. When will you be heading back there?
Speaker 3:Probably end of Jan, early Feb and then probably again in July.
Speaker 1:Amazing, I love that and a book. So when you say you've started that, how far along the track are you Like? What are you doing?
Speaker 3:I've been thinking about it for a really long time and I wanted to do something at the 10-year mark. I felt time. As you can see, I'm an avid book collector. Yeah, and look, I've got Lauren's book here.
Speaker 2:There we go. Thank you on the top of the pile there. That's so sweet, thank you.
Speaker 3:But no, I wanted to do something to kind of commemorate 10 years. We've worked on so many things in 10 years and I really wanted to think about what kind of angle I would go on. And I think what I want to do is talk about the blurring of the line between residential and commercial. I feel like I work struggles that quite a lot. So the working title is Resmercial, but it's not going to be that. It's going to be something more interesting and exciting, something along the lines of um, yeah, that kind of context.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, it should be exciting.
Speaker 3:It's really fun. Yeah, super exciting. I will be hassling lauren for a lot of advice on booking.
Speaker 2:Well, I've got so many questions about the book. I mean, you already have so much absolutely stunning imagery of your projects, so that's, that's done. Um are you going? To work with a publisher or are you going to self-publish?
Speaker 3:I don't know actually, um, I'm not sure. I think we probably would shop the idea around to the publishers and see what happens, but, um, there's not a lot of books on commercial interior design, I think, from an australian perspective anyway, it's a lot of residential and I didn't want to just do a portfolio of our work. I just didn't feel like that was the right kind of direction. We wanted to go on right now anyway, so we'll see. You're right there isn't a lot of Very exciting yeah, no, there isn't.
Speaker 1:I can't think of anything specifically. I mean, there's probably some maybe that we don't know about, but you'd be right, I think most of it's based on residential and probably even more decorating in a way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would agree. It's a lot of decorating stuff, so yeah, so anyway, that should be exciting, a little fun passion project that I'm going to somehow have to find time for.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean talking about that blur of the residential and commercial. When you just mentioned that you've got a project, a medical centre in Vogue Living, like that does not make sense to me. You know, and that's really. You know, how many medical centres do you think Vogue Living would publish? Probably not many. That says a lot about your work really, and that is the yeah, because that is the. You know, what you just do so well is that you really elevate that category of interiors, interior design, can you?
Speaker 2:tell us a bit about that project, or is it all onto an embargo? I can talk about it, I just can't show you the photos of it.
Speaker 3:Basically, it is for an incredible doctor, dr Fatima Khan. She is a specialist in menopause and it might sound weird that she hired you know a young male to design her menopause clinic, but we have a lot of experience working in the kind of beautifying medical spaces through a lot of the work that we've done in cosmetic you know, injectables and hair salons and stuff like that and I really, when I met with her, we just really hit it off and I really loved her vision. I grew up in a very matriarchal family so I watched a lot of women in my family go through menopause and it was actually really exciting. And I remember my partner saying to me it doesn't sound like a very exciting project and I was like we're going to make it exciting. So it's really more colorful than anything I've ever done.
Speaker 3:The entire design is based on empowering women and, yeah, it's a very, very cool space. It's a little bit like 1970s Milanese influence. I was really influenced by lipstick the concept of a woman putting on red lipstick and like how powerful Lauren's got it on right now. But you know how powerful and transformative that was and that was a really big part of it. Looking at people like Monica Bellucci the Italian actress was a really big One of my favorite people, isn't she absolutely incredible. I looked at a lot of her kind of red carpet looks and there was like a poise and an elegance in her later life. Obviously that she's carried through her whole life really, but it was a big inspiration, so it's very cool. I'm very proud of it. I worked with my gorgeous friend C Bochnik. She styled it for the photography. Ah yes.
Speaker 3:So very excited for that to come out in the January edition. So buy a copy support local press.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I have to say that I did not expect the topic of menopause to come up in our chat today.
Speaker 3:I learned a lot about menopause through the process of this project.
Speaker 2:I just love that because. I really think that we need to open up the conversation. I mean, that's obviously a whole other topic, but you know, you were just learning a lot and you know, and the fact that this gorgeous project is going to be published and it just I don't know in a small way helps open up a conversation about it. So thank you for being an ally. I hope so. That's really cool.
Speaker 3:Always, always. I think what was really important for my client and for us as well, was to not make it this issue that women don't talk about. It's becoming a very hot button issue. There's just been a Senate inquiry into menopause and it affects every woman an issue. There's just been a senate inquiry into menopause um, it affects every woman. That's 50% of the planet, um, and we should be able to talk about it more. But also the concept that it's not a sickness and it shouldn't be treated like going to a hospital to be repaired. You know it's. She has a lot more of a obviously a medical approach, but it's a lot more mental health focused as well. So she was honestly such an incredible client, um, and she really just trusted us to kind of roll with it.
Speaker 1:So it's not like any medical practice you've seen before. She must be thrilled as well she is. She loves it, but it's in vogue Like that's yeah, that's amazing, she's very delighted Mostly for her.
Speaker 3:She wants to get the message out there and anything we can do to do that. So look her up, dr Fatima Khan. She's incredible. Book an appointment. Um she's, she's absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really exciting. Thank you for sharing that. So you've got your New York apartment. You mentioned your book. You've got a medical center, um, going into Vogue. But I think you know. To bring us back to the topic today about luxury design. I mean, I feel like your projects really really encapsulate luxury in a understated way, but it's really elevated. So how do you define luxury?
Speaker 3:This is probably a bit of a long winding answer, so I apologize in advance.
Speaker 2:No, we've got time. This is your moment. Go for it.
Speaker 3:Before I was an interior designer, I worked for three luxury brands Tiffany, co, chanel and Gucci in visual merchandising and it was really an incredible education in what luxury is. And I think people think luxury or they use the term luxury synonymously with things like opulent or, you know, decadent or you know things like that, and I think there's this sort of connotation that luxury is shiny and luxury is over the top and expensive, and sometimes that's true, but I think luxury means something different to everybody. I think the way I approach luxury from an interiorist perspective is very material focused. It's very story focused. It's very much about the little things that you don't even see in the images of our work how a drawer closes. You know the practicality and the comfort of something that we've designed. You know we had a client that we did a tea drawer for, that we built compartments for tea bags and that for her was a luxury, a little ritual she could do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and rituals in general. We love doing bathrooms. For that reason I'm a big bath taker.
Speaker 3:Um I apologize to the planet in advance for the hot water that I've used. But, um, you know, creating a ritual around you know daily, daily things that we do and I think interiors have a big, big part in playing with that. But I think what people could see in the images, um, yeah, I I was. I was born in 1990, so I was born in the area of minimalism and you know. But I grew up loving, really you know, designers like Kelly Worsley. You can see all the books behind me. You know I grew up loving that maximalist kind of vibe and I sort of found this weird tension point between them and we slide a little bit along the scale, depending on the project. But, um, I always say my, my perfect ideal house is just a concrete box. But, um, I don't really think I would actually do that.
Speaker 2:So we'll see concrete box with a big old bath in the middle yes, big stone bath, knowing me but um lots of hot water, but um, yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1:luxury it. So you go no, no, I was gonna say um without it then that one of the key points I think that can be overlooked in interiors is that luxury isn't just actually about how it looks, but it's about how it feels or how it operates or how it functions with those soft closed drawers or something feels a certain way when you touch it, but you can't necessarily see that in a visual. So I feel like luxury kind of like can be overlooked in that way sometimes from an interior perspective.
Speaker 3:It's sort of tangible and intangible, and I think luxury doesn't exist without both of those things together. I think about. You know, the idea of comfort is luxury. It's actually one of the defining factors of the word. Luxury is about comfort and I think that gets lost.
Speaker 3:I think the word luxury is overused so often. I mean it's used in some contexts where I don't think it belongs, like luxury vinyl um, not really sure how I feel about that one, but, um, you know, I think it's just this where the people throw in and it has this connotation with expensive or, you know, opulent, and I don't really subscribe to that kind of context of it. I usually say to clients when I take a project, how do you want to feel and that's the luxury to them. You know, when you go into like a really incredible hotel and you just feel good and that is luxury and that you can feel in your house.
Speaker 3:And I feel like a lot of people don't. You know, a lot of the clients that we work with are obviously high net worth individuals, and we go into their homes and I'm like this is how you've been living, like you could. You could live so much better, and that's what we're here to help with and I think comfort.
Speaker 2:Comfort is sometimes a hard thing to convey using imagery and we're so swamped with imagery and a lot of images that are just so styled within an inch of their lives. But you know the comfort that you get from I mean even the ease of making a beautiful cup of tea you know, that's.
Speaker 2:That's sort of a really beautiful way to think about comfort in that way. But you know, the comfort of a chair, of a I mean just all of the things that you use in your, your everyday life and I think also function, as you mentioned.
Speaker 2:You know, I just love your example of the tea because it ties into so many things about luxury that I that's how I see luxury it's it's um bespoke, it's designed specifically for your client, and I think there is that element of that custom design something crafted by hand, made just for you and just to make your everyday ritual just enrich that whole experience. It's just beautiful.
Speaker 3:Well, it does mean something different to everybody and doing this for so long now, I've seen how people live and there's a lot of similarities between countries how Australians live compared to British people, to American people, to people from China to Japan. Everyone lives very differently in a lot of ways. But even amongst families, the way we ritualize things, the way we cook, clean, relax all those things are very different. So it's about kind of understanding those things and often clients haven't even thought about it. So we ask a lot of probing questions and some of those things we discover as we go. I just did a presentation yesterday and we're talking about the wardrobe and how they want to be able to put their clothes away and what they're really going to do versus what's going to look beautiful for a photograph.
Speaker 3:We designed a really beautiful stone plinth to go underneath the wardrobe for them to put their shoes.
Speaker 3:And I was like I have prefaced that I don't believe that you're all going to merchandise your shoes every time you take them off. So you know, asking some of those questions, they evolve as we kind of go, but I think a lot of it is feeling and how people live, but also something that this is going to sound a bit hippie, but like what brings you joy, and for me my house is an experimentation. What brings you joy, and for me, my house is an experimentation? It's changes all the time. Interior designers are the worst clients or our own worst nightmares, but you know, I have a few really beautiful things that looking at them brings me joy and makes me feel calm in my house and, yeah, I think that's a luxury to me as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it is very personal, even just listening to you talk about that wardrobe design and that you know you don't think that they'll do that. But there are people that will literally go. I feel good because my shoes are all like laid out beautifully and I put my things away and it stresses me out not to have them away. I have a client at the moment where you know the partner is the exact opposite and they're trying to live in the same space, so like they leave all the doors open and the other one wants them all neat and tidy. So I mean, I don't know how that goes in a world, but sometimes we're the ones that have to try and solve that problem. But yeah, I think that….
Speaker 3:Interior designers are marriage counsellors all the time, for sure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's not the first time we've said that. Is it, lauren? I think we sort of end up talking about the fact that we end up being some sort of counsellors. But you sort of brought up about the stone, the stone plinth, and I think materiality really does play like a really big part in that, in the way something I guess comes together to make it feel luxurious. I mean, stone is obviously one of the kind of more expensive things, but do you think that it's about the mix of material? Absolutely, what is it about?
Speaker 3:that Absolutely. I think any good designer has a formulaic approach to combining materials. I know I certainly do. I just instinctively know, as we're progressing, oh, we need to add a metal, we need to add a stone, we need to add a timber, or you know, I have a way of approaching things that I think is applicable to all of our projects and is sort of signature in that sense, and I think every designer does that a little differently, which is really beautiful, I think you know it's so great to see especially Australian design talent, the recipe you know.
Speaker 3:if you will to use a simplified kind of, you know explanation of it.
Speaker 3:But if the way everyone cooks, the dish is a little different, but I do think the materials play a really big part. Lauren and I've talked about this at length. But you know, the sustainable angle of things for us is about using natural materials that can be serviced, that can be cared for, um versus, you know, the industrial strength, plastic protected version, um, or versus the recycled option. Necessarily a lot of the time, um, but also patina, which is a really tricky thing to communicate to clients, particularly when they've spent a lot of money. That it's like when you buy a new car that first scratch on the rim and you park parallel parked and you're like, oh, um, what'd you get over the hump of that?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:My rims look terrible but you know it's, I understand it. You know, and I mean even you know, if I buy a new bag, I scratch the leather. Oh my god, like you know, I spent so much money on this. I've damaged it. But it's about like realizing that the patina and the use is part of the story and choosing things that can be repaired and touched up means it will forever be beautiful.
Speaker 2:Um, that's sometimes a hard concept for clients to get, though and I think that's really you know, you're showing empathy and that you're understanding how your clients feel about that. Um, so many good things you've just mentioned. Then, um, I just wanted to touch on, um, the stone plinth of your client's shoes again, because I feel like that is a beautiful luxury.
Speaker 1:It's just like the bat's been plinthed, I know Well.
Speaker 2:It's a beautiful touch of luxury to add into somebody's everyday ritual and I feel like, by adding that stone plinth detail, that you're actually more encouraged to take a bit more care in putting your things away, because you're changing the way that people are living and you're giving them that enrichment in their everyday, which I just think that is a really beautiful definition of luxury too. I also liked what you were saying about sustainability, and unfortunately or fortunately, I don't really know, but sometimes sustainable choices can be a luxury.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Because sometimes making a sustainable choice. It might cost more money up front and it may sort of yeah, isn't it funny when you say that.
Speaker 1:you almost say it like it's a negative like oh that's a luxury.
Speaker 2:I think it is a negative.
Speaker 1:That's a luxury, almost like that. I can't afford like it is yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's unfortunate in a way. So I guess what we're saying is they should be more accessible right, exactly so.
Speaker 1:they're not a luxury and just more part of the everyday.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well our approach to things and when we, you know, enter awards and stuff like that for our work. It's always a question about sustainability and I always feel kind of feeble when I'm answering it because my pragmatic Building anything is not good for the environment. Consumption is bad, just in general. Things that are sustainable from a consumption perspective are often really terrible from an emissions perspective. So it's robbing Peter to pay Paul all of the time. So for me, the best thing I can do is design something that doesn't feel trend focused, something that can be, you know, grow with the family or only would require a slight update going forward.
Speaker 3:The concept of timelessness is really important to us. We do a lot of, I would say, you know a lot of white walls, and it's not necessarily my favourite thing to do, but, you know, working with white stone and things that I guess would be more palatable to the average person, because we don't want the family to have to rip it all out when they want to go and sell it you know, especially if it's a five-year house project rather than a forever house.
Speaker 3:Um, so I think our perspective is going well. How can we design something that doesn't need to be ripped out, something that can be cared for, something that uses local suppliers where we can, and just try to be mindful, and I think that makes more of an impact. Um, and a lot of our clients are more concerned with sustainability. It is becoming becoming more. I mean, I don't think anyone would look at our work and think we're necessarily the most sustainable design practice out there, but you know, I think we do really think about it and try to do something pragmatic rather than something that sounds good to people and to just sort of make it as part of the process.
Speaker 3:It's not kind of greenwash Correct and even when we're doing the design, how do we maximize?
Speaker 1:the material If we're buying a slab. This is how this plinth came about we were buying some stone for the bedhead and I'm like, well, we're going to have leftover, like you know, half a slab. Like you know, what are we going to do with that? Get as much out of it as you can. But there's usually some left that we don't even think about half the time. So it's great to be able to fully utilize that.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm just going to touch on one thing cause I have to cause of the color thing. Color aspect, um is, um, I totally hear what you're saying about, I guess, it being more palatable. And, yes, if the house is going to be turned over and sold within a certain amount of time, that has to be taken into consideration. But I would say that, without being trend focused, I think if the client and the people that live in the home, I guess, are open to color because they love it and not because, oh, this is really cool at the moment, then I think that also can have the same longevity as something that's quite neutral.
Speaker 3:So I'll throw that in there. No, I mean, this is the thing you know, brie. We've talked about this. I love colour, I really love it. But, I don't always have clients who are willing to take the risk on things, and I try so hard. I've even offered to repaint a client's powder room if they didn't like it at the end.
Speaker 1:You in overalls. I want to say that.
Speaker 3:I wanted to paint their entire powder room in this air forcey kind of blue color. I think it's called Dulux Grumman Bath. I think it was the same color from memory and I loved it and I was like it's a kid's powder room upstairs. You know, I didn't want it to feel super sleek and sexy. I was like it needs to feel like cool and fun and for them to grow with. And the client, she was sort of open to it. In the end she was like I just can't, I need to do it white. We're going to sell the house, you know, in five years and I was like I will come and paint it for you when you're ready to sell the house, like I promise you. It was called Carmen Miranda.
Speaker 1:I know the Carmen Miranda that's an intense bedroom.
Speaker 3:I didn't sleep very well, I can tell you that, but you know it was invigorating. I think color is amazing. I like to. If I'm going to do color, let's go all in. You probably know my ocean cosmetics project. It looks like Ariel's underwater cave. It's all completely. You know the sky blue color, so I love to like. I'm not about a pop, I'm like let's go all in or we'll be restrained, so, um, but no, I think.
Speaker 1:I think color is a is a very luxurious kind of thing, um, and I think people could could be more adventurous with it, because it's very easy to paint, you can pay, anyone can paint and it's cheap, and we'll look for a paint sponsor for this podcast now, um, yeah, no, I think color can be luxurious and I think it's how you use it, and you mentioned, um, your, your project, what's it called? Ocean?
Speaker 1:ocean cosmetics yeah, which you do use that. You know beautiful blue, but I think tonal palettes lend themselves to feeling more like a luxury space than maybe doing like pops of colour against a white background.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean yes and no. I mean I take a lot of cues from fashion and I think that changes a lot. I mean, if you look at Tom Ford for Gucci versus, you know, frida Janini for Gucci, very completely different concepts, a completely different way of approaching colour.
Speaker 3:They could both feel very luxurious and expensive and beautiful, and I think the fear for people is very, completely different concepts, a completely different way of approaching color. Um, yeah, they could both feel very luxurious and expensive and beautiful, and I think the fear for people is they'll get bored.
Speaker 1:But if you really love a color I don't I don't think you really get bored yeah, I agree, I agree and I can, and um, I think you get more bored when you don't have color I think, I think a plain white.
Speaker 3:Everything can be a little snoozy from time to time.
Speaker 1:But you know, I feel like um, the other thing with luxury we've talked about sort of material and I guess what kind of goes hand in hand with that is that tactility as well.
Speaker 3:Like we've talked about the way things feel, but and sometimes you can sort of see tactility, so that texture and kind of amping that up can actually really add to that sort of I've spoken to Ruby Shields a lot about this because obviously she loves color just as much as you, and we talk, we talk about a lot, but for me, I've always felt more comfortable with tactility. I don't know what that's about, but I've always felt combining materials to be a very luxurious experience because you can touch it and interior should be experienced with all of your senses. So you know I think they're all important.
Speaker 3:But visual texture and how that looks. You know a really really thick, chunky, you know Italian boucle against really sleek, polished stainless steel, like there's a really beautiful way you can kind of play with texture like that, and I think that's a big focus in what we do is playing with the tactility of things. I always say to clients, if you don't want to walk into your kitchen and just run your hand across it and lay down on the stone that I failed, that's cute, you know, and that's why I've always been really averse to sort of products pretending to be other products. Like I don't really like tiles that look like wood or, you know, fake stone or anything like that. The beautiful natural part of it and how it feels when you touch it is a big part of making something feel luxurious.
Speaker 2:So right, I also thought another point, which I feel like you do convey that in your projects, is something that's unique, something that's kind of exclusive, like that feels quite luxurious as well.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I noticed that you use Lost Profile a bit. I do.
Speaker 3:We almost exclusively use Australian lighting brands, not necessarily out of a devout sense of patriotism but, I, just think Australian lighting is some of the absolute best in the world. There's a handcraftedness, especially with Lost Profile. I discovered Ollie and his brand at the design show five or six years ago and I don't think we've had a project since that. We haven't done a piece of his. And nothing is off the shelf, it's always, I feel, like I'm a difficult client because I'm always like hey can we make this bit like double the size, or one of his.
Speaker 1:He probably loves that. I feel like that's where he excels, isn't it? I think?
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's a. It's a bit of a um, an interesting kind of arrangement, but the my apartment we're working on in Sydney is a double height void and I want to create this thing like a six and a half meter long drop in this kind of alcove and it's not standard, but it means that the client's like the only ones that are going to have it. So I think there's a luxury and exclusiveness. In that I mean think about a Birkin and a Kelly. Everybody wants one because they can't have one.
Speaker 1:True and also lighting too. Sorry go, Lauren. I'll come back to that.
Speaker 2:Oh no, you go, because I was just going to talk about another point that I I was just thinking about how.
Speaker 1:I mean we're talking about, obviously, lighting in terms of how it looks from an aesthetic point of view, but lighting is another aspect of luxury in terms of you know having a room full of down lights doesn't feel very luxury I call it homophobic lighting.
Speaker 3:It's homophobic lighting. I'm sorry. It's fair. Nobody looks good under direct lighting. I can tell you that um, you're hilarious I almost never use them. Um, I was sitting on the sofa yesterday and my partner was cooking and he turned it on and I was just like, oh, like no, off off. I have a very carefully curated layer of lighting.
Speaker 3:Um, and like you know, sometimes I go to people's homes and they just have all the down and, like you know, those houses and they've got like 50 down lights in each room and I'm like I don't most modern houses, I feel like do i's kind of become a real standard thing.
Speaker 1:Are you performing?
Speaker 2:micro-surgery on me, Like why does it need to be so angry?
Speaker 3:Micro-surgery. But lighting, to me, is the jewellery of the project. I think you know we play a lot with budget. A lot of our work looks a lot more expensive than it is because we've been clever with, you know, creating ideas and concepts that feel luxurious, that didn't cost a lot, but that didn't cost a lot. But lighting is somewhere I just have never cheaped out on. I don't think it's the most obvious thing that you've done on the budget if the lighting's not kind of good and you can also take lights with you when you sell the house. That's always what the bribe I use to clients to get a piece of the loan.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, yep, but you know Australia in particular has so many incredible lighting makers and we pretty much mostly use at least now work with hand-finished materials, so aged brass, aged bronze, you know, hand-finished, stainless, that kind of thing. We're not really using a lot of machine kind of finished or like blonde brass. We don't really kind of work with that a lot these days. But you know it's that jewelry and when you walk around the space you know like I have a Christopher Boots light that I customized from his standard Prometheus collection and every time I have a guest over that is the one piece that people are like wow, this is amazing and it is a little jewel in my house, so that is a big part of it for me.
Speaker 2:So we've got yeah. Lost Studio Christopher Boots, volker Haag. Articolo Rukumba.
Speaker 1:We do have good lighting, don't we? We have got so many.
Speaker 3:It's called the Lighting Mafia, apparently.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 3:That's hilarious. There's Henry Wilson. There's Ross Garden. Like you know, australia has some of the best lighting.
Speaker 1:I love.
Speaker 2:Ross as well, I've been to yeah, sorry, go. Well, I was going to say I mean New Zealand as well. Snelling Studios. Yes absolutely, and oh, there's another one as well Nightworks.
Speaker 1:Nightworks. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2:I think we could, you know, bring them into, like they're practically Australian right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry, new, zealanders, we all just claim yeah, we claim New Zealanders as Australians all the time don't we?
Speaker 2:They punch above their weight. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3:I mean, when I first started studying design, you know, I feel like the italian renaissance, if you will, was in.
Speaker 3:Everyone wanted minotti and all these like casino and all these italian brands and um, you know, I just don't feel like lighting has ever really tickled me until I looked at australian lighting um, apparatus, studio excluded. Obviously, they do amazing work. Um, allied maker as well, out of new york, also amazing, but um, yeah, effectively, like I think australian lighting is incredible, I'm also seeing amazing lights being made from like small, up-and-coming people, objects for thought, one of my new favorite lighting brands, such nice guys, um, and they've made an office for us for our light, for our studio and um two of them for our project in new york and just like people with so much creativity and so much raw artisan feel very, very cool.
Speaker 2:It's really beautiful and I suppose almost to counter what you were saying a little bit about the light is something that you really feel like you don't want to compromise so much on the budget, because I also think that sometimes what you want to achieve is the glow, is the effect that you get, and I think that sometimes in your home you achieve is the glow, is the effect that you get, and I think that sometimes in your home, you can really go to ikea, go to your homeware store on down your high street and pick up something that was is going to give you that glow effect.
Speaker 2:Like don't feel like on one day I'm going to get that. Like, please turn off your down lights and just buy whatever lamp you can afford today 100% would agree.
Speaker 1:I think we're all absolutely on board with that.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think I mean such a difference if we inherently come from a fire celebrating species, we're all about being around a campfire, you know, from there it was candles. We are programmed to enjoy a softer glow. Um, and we also have like devices and screens and like everything is just like so in your face, like, just turn the dimmer on, turn it down like low level. Very, you'll look a lot more attractive to your partner, I promise. Um, there's a restaurant back in perth that I used to take people on the first date to called balthazar, because it was so dark, but there was a beautiful little beam of light on the table and everyone looked good.
Speaker 1:So, um, everyone, that's better than low lighting oh, you've got to look good on a date. Oh my god, that's the worst if you go to a restaurant, the lighting's bad, like I went to one with cold blue fluorescent lighting.
Speaker 3:you know, I got up and I was like I'm sorry to be this, this person. This is what I do for a job. You need to change out the bulbs because it makes the food look pallid. I'm sorry, yes that's true. I was like here's some free advice. I normally charge a lot of money for that.
Speaker 2:I can just imagine going on a date and sitting opposite to somebody that's, you know, looking really attractive, and you're like, oh, they are fantastic. Then you go next door to your 7-Eleven and you're like, oh, my God.
Speaker 1:That would be me. I feel like I was joking with my kids. How, you know, getting older and trying to like just look a bit nicer in lighting and with the whole down lights and lighting from above, it, just everything. It's like the bags under the eyes are five times as big.
Speaker 3:Not kidding, not kidding.
Speaker 1:And I was joking saying that I need to just like hook up a ring light that just follows me around well, just talk to people through that, that would be normal. Go for a break oh look, and he is young. God, it's with good lighting. I love it. Um, all right. So I think the other aspect is um with luxury. I think we could say that we went through a period of thinking very minimal. Decluttered spaces were quite luxurious and even all white you know, how I find that to be really cold.
Speaker 1:But even then I guess there was a period where that was sort of also considered to be a luxury, whereas now I feel like you know, talking about tactility, often it's the layers and the things that get put into the room, kind of after all of the finishes and fixtures are in, that actually elevate it.
Speaker 3:I think lockdown had a really profound impact on that. Actually, almost everyone's home I go to my own included, I would say is probably visually overcluttered, but like that's just how people live, if that makes sense. So I think the idea of like it being minimal was like oh look, you know a Marie Kondo. And like this, like oh, how elevated my life must be if I don't have a lot of junk. I don't think there's a truth in an element to that. I think different people prefer to live in different ways. Look at architects like Tada ando, like you know, basically creating concrete boxes for kanye west to buy and ruin.
Speaker 2:But um you know like.
Speaker 3:If some people like to live that way, we, I would say I'm very influenced by belgian and sort of french designers who do take a more restrained approach to that, and space and light, and you know, the significance of each piece has increases the less stuff you have, um, so I think there's an element to that in terms of luxury, but I think really it's a very personal taste. I mean, you know, I remember watching this tv show while I was studying million dollar decorators, with katherine island and mary mcdonald and so on, and I remember watching um katherine island's interiors going. I could never live in one of these, but I respect the design and I appreciate the layering and how it's put together and I think think that's the beauty of you know, especially in Australia, we have so many different designers who do completely different things, so you can shop around, you'll find what you like and we all approach things a little differently, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think white feels safe. I actually call it kind of the IKEA complex that Australia seems to have. You know, Scandinavian furniture is bright and interiors are light and bright because it's so dark. The IKEA complex that Australia seems to have. You know, scandinavian furniture is bright and interiors are light and bright because it's so dark through. You know the big parts of the year.
Speaker 3:Whereas Australia I'm from Perth, very sunny place it never really made sense to me this sort of bright, white light, oak, timber, everything. But you know, it's what people feel comfortable with, it's what's within people's vocabulary. And I always say to clients like what you know, it's what people feel comfortable with, it's what's within people's vocabulary. And I always say to clients like what you know about design is like looking through a pinhole and what I know is like looking through the Hubble Space.
Speaker 3:Telescope. So I mean, there might be other things that you've never seen that you would love even more than what you have seen. Um, that's a great analogy, yeah um, but yeah, like just trying to take clients on a bit of a journey and show them things, and I would say almost every single project we've ever done, the client has said this is not what I thought I wanted, but it's actually exactly what I wanted. Um, and I was like, well, I've done my job.
Speaker 3:Then, like, I've I've taken you on a journey and I've shown you pieces of furniture that you've never even thought existed, because really, especially nowadays with marketing and advertising and social media, people are seeing the same king living.
Speaker 3:So far, yes, you know, over and over and over again, and same with ikea. It's like this indoctrination, and all you see is what you're comfortable with. So that's what you want, that's what you think you like. Um, and I've been fortunate after a lot of traveling, I'm very passionate about architecture and interiors in different parts of the world, um, throughout different parts of history as well, and we've all you know. There's just so much to see and do. There's beautiful things to have.
Speaker 2:That's so true.
Speaker 1:That's for sure.
Speaker 2:I think another point about luxury as well is sort of playing on that uniqueness but bringing in vintage pieces because you do feel like you've found this treasure and you could be like searching for two years for something, and when you finally find it you might not have cost a fortune, but for you it's part of that journey of sourcing it and finding it, and I feel like that's a nice way of looking at luxury as well. Do you use vintage that much, Nicholas?
Speaker 3:I love vintage, and we don't get to use it anywhere near as much as I would like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is hard to put into projects, I find sometimes.
Speaker 3:Australia is really tricky, because the price point for vintage is usually really high because we don't have what I call heirloom culture.
Speaker 1:There's not much here, yeah.
Speaker 3:You didn't get left your grandma's armoire. You know what I mean. Like australia is so young as a you know a country you don't have. You know the heirloom.
Speaker 2:We don't have that mentality. I mean, even if you had that heirloom, you were like I don't like it. It's going on the.
Speaker 1:It's going on the street period, I reckon in the in the 90s and early 2000s, where everyone just kind of turned their nose up on things like that were handed down even if they were of value and they either, yeah, got sort of thrown out or given away and there is just less here. Obviously you know any vintage person here.
Speaker 1:Selling is over in Europe going to all the markets and collecting all the stuff and then shipping it, and so that's what you're paying for, right? It's probably even the shipping itself. That cost would be huge. And then if it's lighting, it has to be rewired and checked, and all of that sort of stuff, but I love vintage too, and I think that you hit on a really good point, lauren, that I was thinking about Nicholas when you said, like about appreciating.
Speaker 1:You know that more cluttered about Nicholas when you said, like about appreciating, you know that, more cluttered look, let's call it, you know, in the sort of English way I think, yeah, yes, that's quite layered, but I think what it is, you know, to try and pinpoint why that still could be a luxury space. I think it's the consideration that's given to each piece, as you said, that goes into the space.
Speaker 1:So it's the time taken to find that amazing vintage piece that you've been looking for for two years, or it's not necessarily always paying someone, but what you do, or what we do, is think about that and really put so much thought into every single element of the space and really put so much thought into every single element of the space. But you can achieve that just as much by doing the same thing over a period of time and not with, you know, huge budget.
Speaker 3:We work on a lot of you know, new builds or when people are renovating, they've saved up or they've, you know, got finance. They want to do a big thing, so they want to do everything at once and it's kind of hard to make that work because it does have a very moment of time feel um, you know, obviously, when we work with clients on, you know, the whole house, it's a multi-year project for us. It's not, you know, a five month, six month kind of thing. But you know, even when it comes down to sort of the bits and pieces, I'm like you will collect these things as you go and allowing kind of space for that. And I always said in my class but you can always call me when you're in Morocco and you find some weird leather like.
Speaker 3:Ottoman that you're like, hey, do you think we could get this? I might say, no, I might say, buy me one as well. You know, and I'm also always on the lookout for things, you know, particularly for art and accessories. I have clients that you know. I finished the project three or four years ago. I, you know I finished the project three or four years ago. I'm like, hey, by the way, I just saw this, you should really should buy this, like this would be really great for your house. So you know, for me, I'm never really done. I'm really really done with the job.
Speaker 3:But you know, you have to collect things over time and I think my apartment is a really great example of that. Where it's, it's a collection of nearly 10 years of things and you know, your taste waxes and wanes, but you know, I think when you buy something that you really love, it's kind of forever. I tend to be very mindful on a purchase. I'm not an impulsor unless it comes to a handbag, but you know, when it comes to furniture, I really like to think about it a lot and you know, I think when you buy things that you love, they will find a home. Conversely, I like to say that interior is all about editing. I talk to clients a lot about sometimes. You know the thing that they would. It was that you know when we're looking at sofas, for example, the number one that they love makes absolutely no context like makes. It has no sense of context of what we're doing. So maybe it's the second best choice, that is the best fit for a sense of harmony and cohesive interior. But that's really just like a style and a recipe sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Um, for me, from from a luxurious perspective, the concept of harmony is so important. I think a lot about Versailles and you know the concept of enfilade, which is a bit of a fancy architecture term, but it's the relationship between spaces as you move between them. Think about the Hall of Mirrors as a really great example, what you can kind of see through a threshold into the next space, and we think about that all the time. And some designers do a kind of shock value thing where, like, you'll move from the bathroom to the bedroom and it's like completely different color palette, completely different story, and I do love that, I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 3:But I also, you know, I think for me, harmony and peace and living on a day-to-day basis is the relationship between the spaces having a connection, and that doesn't mean using the same things in every room, but just thinking about how they kind of connect. And yeah, I think, when you know, when it comes to just like a cluttered life, I mean, if that's what you like and that's what makes you feel amazing, then, like you should, a hundred percent, you should have that. You should find a designer that does that for you. I'm probably not that person, but you know you should hire someone, because there's no right or wrong. I'm not the arbiter of what is luxury, what is not, but everyone lives very differently, everyone has different values and people dress differently and feel differently about life.
Speaker 2:So finding out what luxury means to you, I suppose I love that and I think, yeah, finding out what luxury means to you and then implementing it. Just do it, go for it, try it.
Speaker 3:I would say hire an interior designer, we can help you find out. Yes, that's very true. We're here for you.
Speaker 1:I think harmony is actually one of the best words for luxury. I think if something is really jarring in a space, it would change it from it being luxury to maybe more I don't know. It's more making a statement or making people feel something that's a little bit ooh not For me. I guess luxury is more about that. As we said, comfort. So you feel comfortable in a space, you're not going to feel that if something's really jarring. So Harmony is probably I would put that kind of almost pretty high on the list for a feel of luxury.
Speaker 3:There's an amazing scene from Will and Grace. I grew up watching that. I'm pretty sure Grace Adler is why I became an intuitive designer, but Grace.
Speaker 3:I grew up watching that. I'm pretty sure Grace Adler is why I became an intuitive designer. But there's this one episode where Grace moves into an apartment and she's got boxes and stuff everywhere and she's like, do you think if I move this vase on the vessel from here to here it would throw off the whole room? And I think about that all the time because I'm that person. I sit at home, even in my own house. I'm like if I swapped where that glass dish is on the coffee table to the other book, would that, would that look better, would that?
Speaker 1:work for everything. I do it to 100, but you know it does sometimes do that right absolutely can do.
Speaker 3:But I think what also comes down to, like you know, when people will use the word clutter, they and I think sometimes it comes across in a negative way but I'm like you don't like those interiors that you see are so carefully thought of it's, it's like it's a yeah, it's an assemblage, um, it's not just I didn't buy a lot of crap and put it in.
Speaker 3:You know, everything was really considered and um, I think that's I I think would be the hardest thing for someone who's not trained in interiors to do. And even those of us who are trained in interiors and working all the time um the assemblage of the things and the editing is really um, the expertise I and knowing what goes with what. A lot of our clients are professional. They work in medicine and law and finance and real estate and all those kinds of things but it doesn't really require a lot of creativity and sometimes I think it can be difficult if you're not creatively minded to understand that what you're paying for when you're working with interiors or paying for when are you buying a really expensive piece, is sure it couch or you know you're paying for a design or whatever, but it's the decades of experience to create that. That that's what you're paying for. It's like that um connotation that you pay the plumber.
Speaker 3:You pay the plumber 100 bucks for 10 minutes work because it only took him 10 minutes, um, because of his experience in his life. So, um, I guess it's the same with interiors. That context, definitely, I feel, I feel like that's one of your mantras, Lauren.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean charging for your time. That's why you know my work in the Design Society. We talk about, you know, trying to figure out the value that you bring. Your value, your unique value that you bring to your clients is what they want to pay for. They don't really want to pay for your time. It's that end result or that experience along the way, but that's a conversation for another day.
Speaker 3:Well, I think, also when you were talking about vintage before, I think we love vintage. We are inspired by vintage pieces. We create a lot of our own pieces that are inspired by vintage a lot of the time, not necessarily. It might be scale, it might be cost, it might be material opportunities, um, that we want to kind of tweak things. I'm also not I'm not really great at just off the shelf. I always want to change something. Um, I'm that rude person in a restaurant who wants something different about the dish.
Speaker 3:I'm that person, um, but I think you know it's when you're hiring a designer or working with someone creative. It connects back to their repertoire, their rolodex, if we still have those, um, the knowledge we have. Like, we use a lot of pieces from up and coming people who you know I've just spent time researching, seen at shows or have come across um, furnished forever. I have one of my favorite pieces is their waffle chair. I saw it, I think, on an instagram post really obscure thing and I had it up in the pin board of the office and I have one in my house. We just put two in a commercial project and it was the client's absolute favorite piece and it's just not something that you can go into a big department store and buy. You know it's knowing where to get those little weird little things. There was a girl jess humpston, I think her name was from craft victoria.
Speaker 3:This year she'd had these little wooden tables with a travertine block in it and I was like this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. I'm absolutely, absolutely obsessed. The tables aren't super expensive. It doesn't mean I have to pay nine thousand dollars for a side table. To come from italy, you know, I can buy something locally made by some small creative person.
Speaker 1:Was she using offcuts? I think so. I think so.
Speaker 3:There were little like kind of lattice-y wooden things, which is so cool, so, so cool, and you know I call those pieces the future heirloom and that's the kind of thing that you will hold on to and we will hopefully restart the cycle that your grandchildren will inherit from you and you will love and will kind of have a long life. So I think that, and it's also the character in the story, when people come over and they're like, wow, I love this little side table, and you go, it's made by someone locally. This was her vision. You know, it means that your interior has a soul and kind of a personality that it can speak to.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more, and I think actually that's a really good point in terms of defining luxury. I think if you know the name of the person that's created, that's crafted, that's forged, that's handmade, that piece that you own, that is amazing to have that level of connectedness to the maker. You know whether it's a dining table that you've met, the person, the human hands that have made it Like. That is the definition of luxury at least for me, you know, to know the designer.
Speaker 3:It's a big part of it for us as well, yeah, you know, even to take clients.
Speaker 2:I took one of my clients to Daniel Barbera's workshop. She loved it. We were talking about it the other day and we went months ago. Just the experience of being in his workshop, meeting Daniel he's fantastic and we had such a great meeting there, you know to be able to have those pieces in your home that tell that story back to what you're saying, that is just a beautiful luxury to have I think you're right, lauren.
Speaker 3:What it comes down to is like there's no luxury from ikea because it's a mass-produced, you don't really know anything about it. It didn't come into your house with soul and didn't come into your house with personality or quality, and I think that's kind of where people struggle. But you know, I I think we had the exact same experience with lost profileile. We did a house, we had a lot of lighting, everything was custom and I took the clients down to meet Oliver. They got to see their pieces in the workshop and it was like an experience they would never forget and they would tell everyone that came through the house and I just think that is really, really special. That is a luxury.
Speaker 3:And I think when you know, I started kind of calling this term zoom shame during covid because I was on a lot of zoom calls with people and I was like, girl, you gotta tidy that up, like what is that? Um, and you know I have a lot of I'm very house proud. If someone's coming to my house, it is immaculately cleaned, everything is perfectly styled, there is a candle, like I'm. I'm that way, but you know, to feel proud of your house and have people come around and be excited about the house that you live in. That to me is a luxury, um, and that you know. I guess when you think about luxury from a more plastic kind of perspective, you know, working with those fashion brands, when I sort of began my you know professional career as an adult, half the people on half most of the people came in.
Speaker 3:They wanted to buy something that had the logo on it and to them that was the luxury that someone else knew that they'd spent money and I think, to be honest, before I started working in that space, I probably felt a bit like that too. Oh, I want to have a Gucci bag, or I want to have the look I want people to know I spent money. What I realized the longer I worked there was the thing that I loved, the thing that was beautiful and crafted and like there was 10 of these made or you know, like the stitching on this was done by hand or whatever. That was the luxury and the other branded products supported the more you know high-end stuff. But it comes back to things like you know, couture and fashion. The perfume supports the business of the couture that doesn't make any money but is crafting beauty, and I think interiors can sometimes be like that too. I think there's been a tendency over the last maybe 10 or 15 years with magazines to promote projects that are heavily featuring expensive furniture brands like Casina or.
Speaker 3:Petronio Frau or you know, artec and all these really high-end brands, edra, that kind of stuff and people go, oh, what a beautiful interior. They spend a lot of money and sure. Sure, those things are incredible and beautiful. We love using them when we can put them into a project, but that doesn't define luxury, for me at least. Um, you know they have their place, but I don't think that's a marker of luxury.
Speaker 1:I think that's the illusion of it, if that makes sense I agree I like that, the illusion of luxury, yeah and it's because it could just be showpiece right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or status thing, and it's all. The things we've talked about are much more emotive, to do with what actually makes luxury. Whereas that is just like you know. You could easily fill a space even if you just borrowed all the furniture with all the very expensive stuff. But that doesn't it kind of. It's the illusion, it's just the aesthetic. It's not actually how it functions and how you live and and maybe you're not even attached or care about that. So it's not real right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not real. There's so much spoken mirrors. I was actually with a client in a showroom. We were looking at lighting some beautiful lighting for the kitchen, dining and, and the lady in the showroom she said, oh, you know, you want to. Oh, the client said, oh, we could put that in our master en suite and the lady actually said, oh, you maybe want to put that in your powder room because then people will see it and she's like the client's like, but I'll see it. You know, it's not all about showing off to your guests or whatever. It's. That sort of feels like luxury to me. It's just for me to just enjoy and that's okay.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite phrases of all time is money shouts and wealth whispers, and I think that's where it comes into luxury, where it's like you can spend an awful lot of money and it not look like you spend an awful lot of money and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It sounds bad, but if you've bought a handful of really incredible pieces and you know they all have this incredible story and you love them and they bring you joy, then that was a good investment if you bought it. So the people think you spent money. That's just keeping up with the joneses. To me, um, and I don't really think it says a lot about the people who live there. Um, I think australians are not particularly good at this, because we have a different attachment to our homes because of the commodification. Is that a word? Um?
Speaker 3:yeah of you just made it one, but we know exactly what you're talking about you're right, the resale, and I feel like half the time the third client when I have a couple is the resale client and you know we're thinking about.
Speaker 3:oh well, I don't want to buy this because you know, and I'm like we've lived in this house for 10 years, that's 10 years of you looking at this light fixture and going, wow, how happy does this make me? And I think Australians necessarily aren't programmed as people in the United States, the United Kingdom, for example, to use comparative countries where they're a little bit more focused on like, wow, this is really beautiful. On the flip side, my absolute indulgence and my porn is selling Sunset and Million Dollar Listing and all those shows, because I love looking at these $40, $50, $60 million houses and I'm like I want to vomit all over the floor. This is disgusting.
Speaker 2:The French one's the best.
Speaker 3:I haven't started that one, but it's on the list. It's the best. They're my family.
Speaker 2:I love the family, the Kretz or whatever family.
Speaker 3:I haven't seen the French one, I can't get enough to check that out, but I think you know. Yes, there you go.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just going to bring it back to your sort of one of the first things you said. You know, it's not about the status, the bling, and look at me, it's the draw for the tea, it's that thing for yourself that doesn't shout in a photograph but it gives you that beautiful, enriched, you know, ritual every day in life and I think that's to me you sound like, yeah, that really you've captured luxury. I think that's beautiful.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, it's like if you close the door in a luxury car, that kind of like thick, clunky click that it makes versus the Toyota Camry that you get picked up in your Uber.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean like there's, there's, it's the intangible luxury, although I have to say sometimes I feel like, if you're defining luxury, um, there's a Rolls Royce which is a very expensive car. It's a status symbol. Um, is that luxury? Or is your toyota luxury because your toyota is going to be like the most reliable car and it's going to do all of the things for you, like it comes back to that function as well? Maybe a rolls royce with all those maybe silly bells and whistles that you don't really need? It's? I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yes, and no, I think it depends on who you are and where you are in your life. I mean, I think there's a tendency with social media now to like you see all these young women carrying Birkins around Like that was for a very long time the bag when you've made it. Remember Samantha Jones from the Sex and the City episode. She's like I've made it, I can buy it now, and I think we all. But then she had to wait for it and she didn't want to exactly.
Speaker 3:But, um, you know, we all, we all want to jump to the rolls royce, but there's a lot of layers in between that and different levels of luxury.
Speaker 3:I remember when I bought my first Ford ps start was black with a deep burgundy interior, thought it was the coolest thing ever. Um, and was it the most luxurious car on the road? No, but I was like, wow, this is so cool and it's new and has all these cool gadgets, and that was luxury to me. And I think that's how you can kind of look at it Like you don't. You know, there's not this great divide between the Turok $25 million mansion and your one-bedroom apartment. You can still live luxuriously and live in luxury in your own space. You know, there's not some invisible wall that prevents you from accessing it, and it's just about being thoughtful. It's about being you know, investing in yourself and your pieces. It's about you know collecting and it's about hiring a designer who can help you get there, because it's pretty much all on your own.
Speaker 2:Well, my ultimate definition of luxury is to take a daytime nap. I haven't got there yet. I love a nap.
Speaker 3:You know what I feel guilty when.
Speaker 2:I have a nap.
Speaker 3:I feel bad.
Speaker 1:Oh, one day I'm not very good at doing the napping either. If I could, I feel like we need to probably wrap it up, even though we could, I reckon, continue the conversation Probably. I feel like we've touched on some really great points in terms of what I think it'll make people really think about what luxury is too. I hope so, compared to what you maybe started started thinking of it as and oh, I think it's a very plasticky word, you know, I think, even like I'm sure in the clickbait of the head.
Speaker 3:You know the, the episode, you know people who luxury and um, in some ways I occasionally feel a little bit, um, not shamed, a little embarrassed. I consider my work luxurious and I think that's a signature of what we do, because I think people are like oh, it must be glitzy, you know, and I'm like, well, if that's, if that's what you want, then that's a bit of a bad rap, doesn't?
Speaker 1:it like even the word. I don't mind the word luxury, but luxurious sounds.
Speaker 2:I don't like luck, and I don't know why I don't like luck. It's true words.
Speaker 1:Don't like that words for it, because there's not a lot yeah, I think it was overused.
Speaker 3:I like indulgent as a bit of a marketing thing.
Speaker 1:Indulgence is good.
Speaker 3:I also like obnoxious. That's one of my favorites where I'm like how obnoxious that I spent this much money on this beautiful thing that I can't afford, but it makes me so happy.
Speaker 1:I love that one as well. It's so funny. Okay, so that's a new podcast. Podcast topic obnoxious interiors. I like it. We'll work that one out.
Speaker 3:There's quite a few. I'm sure I can pull for that.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Nicholas. What a fun chat. Thank you so much for having me. This was great.
Speaker 3:I hope it really opened some people's minds to thinking about luxury. I could talk about it until I'm blue in the face, so thank you for indulging me for an hour.