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Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
YouTube channel launching soon.
Design Anatomy
Bringing Nostalgia into Retail & Residential Interiors with Brahman Perera
Join us on an insightful journey with the talented designer Brahman Perera as we uncover the past year's highlights in interior design. Ever wondered how rest can spark creativity, or how the cultural tapestry influences your work?
Brahman shares his unique perspective on the power of taking a step back for innovation and how embracing one's cultural identity can transform design. We also highlight the heartwarming generosity within the design community and how these bonds foster genuine friendships and mutual support, especially in vibrant cities like Melbourne.
Explore the fascinating intersection of diversity and design, where personal stories and multicultural backgrounds shape our understanding of identity. We dive into the success story of Brahman's Hopper Joint that opened in March this year, a celebration of Sri Lankan street food that reflects the rich cultural heritage of its founders. The conversation doesn't stop there; we dig into the critical need for more diversity in interior design, particularly in public spaces, to mirror our multicultural societies. Brahma and I emphasize that recognizing and valuing diversity can lead to more inclusive and meaningful designs.
From the evolution of retail design trends to the impact of COVID-19 on commercial and residential spaces, we touch on the dynamic nature of design and the need for adaptability. Whether it's reimagining a spare room or integrating unique elements into retail spaces, thoughtful design can significantly enhance everyday living. Finally, we celebrate the blending of nostalgia and sustainability, highlighting how personal connections and cherished items can create timeless, functional spaces.
Brahman Perera's amazing work can be seen here on his website & instagram
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
Need an expert to guide you on how to create your DREAM home? Join the Style Studies Essentials course, learn more: STYLE STUDIES ESSENTIALS
Hey designers, let's get you working on amazing projects, increase your fees and straighten out your process. Lauren Li helps interior designers at all stages of their career inside THE DESIGN SOCIETY
YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast hosted by friends and fellow designers.
Speaker 2:Me, Bree Banfield and me, Lauren Li, with some amazing guest appearances along the way.
Speaker 1:We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style.
Speaker 2:With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and lived-in spaces. We're excited to share our insights of inspiration with you and in this engaging conversation, we talk with Brahman Perera and we look back on the past year, sharing our thoughts on the value of rest and creativity, the generosity we've seen in the design community and how cultural identity plays a role in our work.
Speaker 1:And we dive into how food can be a way to celebrate diversity and discuss the role of nostalgia in sustainable design, highlighting the importance of forming meaningful connections with the things we choose to keep in our spaces. Throughout this conversation, we explore the key elements of interior design, how personal connection, functionality and practicality all come together to create spaces that truly resonate with clients.
Speaker 2:And I just think that you know, I've been thinking about a conversation with Brem since we recorded it the other day All of these little gold nuggets that he shared with us and we were just chatting about and just before. I hope that you guys really enjoy this episode, because I loved chatting with Brem.
Speaker 1:It's super engaging and Brem is, just like an amazing sharer of you know, very open, easy to talk to, so it's really fun as well.
Speaker 2:So good, shall, we, shall, we, let's go. Hey Brem, how's it going?
Speaker 3:Good, good, great to be here. Happy Christmas as well, I know, I know, or happy month, as I'm saying, loth.
Speaker 1:My brain still isn't even there and I know that's like next week. Right, it's next week, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 1:Allegedly. Yeah, I'm very slow to it this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been a bit of a. It creeps up on me, but I say that every year like it's nothing new anyway, I don't know why this year feels worse.
Speaker 1:somehow, though, everyone's saying that I don't know why, I don't know either. I think we're just in trauma still from the last few years.
Speaker 2:We're just not recovered, but a break will be nice. It will be so nice. And Bram, oh my God, you look like you've been so busy. I bet you're looking forward to a break.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Just to your point, brie. I'm still thinking about this year and like what has actually happened. There's been so much and it's been so long ago. And it's interesting to me because I have a little out of office spiel that I put in my out of office email and it's about you know to be creative and to think creatively. You know you need to rest, you need to read, you need to have some quiet moments and things. I love that. And then I was thinking today, going I can't recall when I last had my quiet moment when I read a book. So I mean I'm trying to enforce it because for me that's when I'm. You know, thinking creatively is when you can relax. So lots of, I guess, lots of learnings from this year. It's been a good year, but lots of learnings to take into the new year.
Speaker 2:I know it's all good in theory, isn't it Like we know that we should just go for walks and, just like you know, switch off. It's like, oh, I've just got to quickly write this email, though, and then the whole day is gone and you're just like, oh my God, what happened?
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I do. I'll go okay, so I'm just going to get this done, this done and this done, and then I'm going to go and take the dog for a walk and it just never happens because it just keeps coming. Yeah, it's not good, it it's not good.
Speaker 2:It is important to recharge the batteries, though. So I was thinking, Brem, of the first time I sort of got to know you, and I can't really exactly remember, but I do remember reading a story on the design files, and it was a really great interview with you at the time you were working at Fiona Lynch.
Speaker 3:That's right. Yeah, I think I just moved to that studio after working for a few years um with paul and hamish and hanky guthrie. Yeah, there was this opportunity to do this, this little chit chat with um, with lucy, but she's always been um a big champion of of me or my work anyway, um, you know, very, very generous with her time. Their whole team have been very, very generous with their time and their um yeah, sort of celebration of a lot of my peers as well, so I definitely have a lot of time for them. I know that they've celebrated some pretty big milestones as well this year.
Speaker 2:Actually I saw you run in so gracefully to their launch, their magazine launch, and then you, just like Cinderella, you just disappeared. That was terrible.
Speaker 1:You didn't leave a shoe for us.
Speaker 3:No shoe. That was terrible. I already had an event on that night. But I just and I'm trying to you know to your point before about, you know, just so much on. At the moment I try not to commit to too many things in one night because I kind of think it's actually a bit rude, you know when you can't be present, when you're meant to be present, but for it's actually a bit rude, like you know, when you can't be present when you're meant to be present. Um, but I but for lucy, I just thought I couldn't get out of this other event. It was good a client and um, I just I had to go and see her and got some flowers and and just wish them, even though it was I had the uber just wait around the corner, I just sort of wrapped him well I didn't see it exactly.
Speaker 2:I actually you sort of said you thought it was it would be rude to do that, and I thought it was actually the opposite. I thought that obviously you've got something like you've got a lot of stuff on and I just thought that you've gone all the way out of your way just to be there and just to do the thing and say hello, and then you were off. I thought that was really cool.
Speaker 3:I just I just think like there are certain people you know who really, who really. You know they're very, very special. It's not just Lucy, but many people in my life have been really, really generous with their time. It's not just even publishing or even this amazing opportunity to chat with you both, you know, on top of our sort of more social friendship, it's, I just feel like, in the last few years, it's generosity. It's people who sort of go let me do something for you with no potential or foreseeable gain for me in any possible way. You know, let me introduce you to someone. Let me give you some thoughts that I had randomly the other day about your website. You know there are people out there who have kind of got in my corner and, you know, sometimes you sort of forget to just say to them wow, that was a really really amazingly thoughtful thing that you did, with no concept of any sort of reciprocation, but I would hope that that happens anyway.
Speaker 1:So I just sort of think to myself yeah, there's a people to tick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely definitely.
Speaker 1:I do think that it's very generous. It's always amazing when that happens and I think that it also, just for me, creates these amazing friendships, yeah, that aren't based on exactly what we said like a gain, or it's just that you all have a love of what you do and so you kind of want to encourage people and you want everyone to kind of do well. So, yeah, generosity I haven't really thought about that word, but I do think that our industry is quite generous, but I find, particularly in Melbourne as well, that we have such a great community. So, yeah, it's nice to hear that.
Speaker 2:But I think it also speaks to you, b, because I think somebody could look at your work and I just feel like it's so you feel the passion, you feel that inspiration and I think that is like a magnet to people as well. So, yeah, I think that attracts people, so that's really nice. But, um, you know that, the same with Lucy. I mean I mean I can't. I won't even start bashing about how much she's, you know, supported me in my business as well. She's just, I mean, she's been on this podcast too and yeah, so she's just the best, isn't she?
Speaker 3:absolutely mutual love here, so it's a fan club.
Speaker 2:It's a lucy fan club it is I do.
Speaker 1:I do think you have quite a magnetic personality though, b. I mean, I remember the first time we met was I think we were both joking on a panel. I want to say I think there was a panel.
Speaker 3:Was it a panel or a judging sort of thing?
Speaker 1:I think it was. I think it was a panel. Yeah, we just do that, or a judging sort of thing.
Speaker 3:I think it was a panel Always judging?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just do that in our spare time. What?
Speaker 3:are you talking about Mine's?
Speaker 1:judging, but you know, just immediately was able to chat to you and you're very open and you were on that panel. I can't even remember what we were talking about, but I think there was three of us talking about. It was probably about colour or something like that.
Speaker 3:Um, maybe the old den fair somewhere, I think it might have been the old den fair, I think about having a panel and definitely about color. I'm sure that, yeah, um, but look it's, it's something that you have to kind of again. This is all in the scheme of, like, my work it's. You know, I've been working for a long, long time, but only technically on my own for the last few years, but, but it's in the it's in the last few years that that kind of understanding is has is slowly, um, solidifying and and you kind of have to re-evaluate, um, you know yourself all the time. Anyway, I think any, any normal person would but, um, but, but it's.
Speaker 3:I found it kind of interesting. It's sort of a myth that, like, if you are in this world, you do need to be, uh, I don't know, you need to speak well and be charismatic and sort of know how to do everything all at once. You need to close them and all that, and I do think that you do like, I think you need to make an effort, but, um, there are some amazing designs out there who are kind of quiet and stick to their lane and just do what they need to do and do beautiful, beautiful work, and I think that what's nice is that they're still successful and people find them and follow the work. So, ultimately, I think you need to follow the work, follow someone who you know morals align with you. It is nice and I think, just through hospitality and whatever, I kind of feel quite comfortable, you know, to jump on a podcast and to do things like this, but it's still something I'm working on, slowly hopefully getting better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's so true too. There on slowly hopefully getting better. Yeah, I think that's so true too. I mean, I probably come across as someone who is quite confident to chat, but I haven't always been like that and I do get quite shy in a lot of situations, particularly if I don't know people and you have to really push yourself out of the comfort zone. But yeah, it should never be to the detriment.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, I do Aw.
Speaker 1:It should never be to the detriment of someone's work, right, and sometimes that does happen. I do think sometimes people fly under the radar because they are present and out there, but yeah, it's nice to be able to make sure that those people are still being seen as well. Absolutely, you are very out there, though we were just chatting before about the fact that we saw you at the NGV gala in your beautiful outfit. Tell us a little bit about that and how that came about. You know? Look, I mean the thing with the gala.
Speaker 3:I look, I have a lot of respect for the NGV, um, and I think that that that it exists, you know, in its own particular sphere, and then we kind of orbit around it and to the side of it and then there's separate melbourne design week things and and and things like that happen, um, but you know, it can't be just one thing, so everything has to exist together and it attracts different people. The ngb is a particular organization and I think we should be pretty proud of it. Does it do everything I wanted to do? Probably not. Does it do a lot? Yes, um, can it harness, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars very, very quickly? Yes, um. So you know there's a lot of criticisms. Can it harness hundreds of millions of dollars very, very quickly? Yes, so there's a lot of criticisms. I think sometimes with big organizations, I just sort of have that at least it exists and there are some amazing people who work within it.
Speaker 3:The gala itself, look, it's a bit of fun. It's to celebrate an artist, an exhibition, but also just to celebrate the fact that we have an organization on spending money and it can put on a show, and I guess my hospitality side kind of looks at things a bit through that lens as well, what some might kind of call a bit of a waste of money or frivolous or whatever it is, I go. Well, it isn't. It isn't. I mean, it's a networking event. Really. It's a networking event that brings prominence to what they're trying to do and the reason for the funding and getting people into the gallery, which is, as far as I see it, an incredible resource and boon for melbourne.
Speaker 3:Uh, and yes, you know, on the fun side, to dress up the sort of met gala s aspect to it, it's, it's all just part of what makes melbourne kind of colorful and fun, and the people who go to it as well. So I mean, you know, we were privileged to go on to contribute and to be at the dinner and be at the party and to meet some amazing people and to see the exhibition, of course, um, which was amazing. Um, and, yes, you know, having a nice outfit is always fun. The outfit was from a friend and client of mine, kudret, who has a label called mustani, and I'm working with kudret and her husband, alex, on their private residence. But you know, kudret came up with some ideas for the outfit and it sort of provides, I think, some references to the particular exhibition this time, but also still felt a bit like me. You know this amazing sort of Miriam Polishman.
Speaker 3:It's kind of His name was Mary May. You know, just a touch of sort of an ethnic kind of traditional or artisanal workmanship to the garment, without being too on the nose. But you know I don't mind playing up a bit of. You know, I've got a great ethnic background.
Speaker 2:It's always kind of fun to me because it doesn't worry me. What is your background, Bram?
Speaker 3:I've been to Sri Lanka. I've been to Sri Lanka, and both from Colombo. And then they moved to England and they lived there for probably about Five miles to Sri Lanka, five miles to Sri Lanka, and both from Colombo. And then they moved to England and they lived there for probably about a decade. And then they came to Hamilton, of all places here in Australia, and they lived there for a while where we had a lot of our childhood and then Melbourne.
Speaker 3:But my grandparents we were pretty fortunate enough to be here, be here in melbourne with us for well all of my life basically, um, and they they managed to leave, um, you know, after the war in sri lanka, so that so we were pretty privileged to make a life here, um, and you know that they were just, uh, they were just amazing people who really embraced living in australia, really felt utterly grateful to be here and contributed a lot as well.
Speaker 3:So I think I kind of learned a lot from them about the fact that you know, they were still very cultural and proud of their ethnicity, but they were also extremely proud to be Australians. So you know, it was a nice way in which to feel, you know, culturally connected in a way to a country. But I mean, I wasn't born there and I sort of don't like to take too many graces from that country because, you know, I sort of feel a bit like I wasn't born there. I don't speak the language, um, but nonetheless we still, you know, grew up going to church yeah, it's still doing a lot of traditional things exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3:So I do like to weave that in, in, in. In its own small way, or more often than not, it probably just happened kind of naturally, through osmosis or something and so I just was not aware of it until until it's there, you back in life.
Speaker 2:But that's beautiful what you wore yeah, well, that's um interesting because my husband, his um parents, are from hong kong and it was sort of like what you were saying, like they love, love, this love living in australia. But they they moved down in Frankston, which is an area where there weren't a lot of other Asian people, so Phil was like the only Asian person in his whole school. But, yeah, it's nice to they really appreciated it.
Speaker 1:I imagine that would have been like that in Hamilton, because Hamilton is just like a pretty small country town, right.
Speaker 3:Pretty much. I think there was a joke that we were probably the only non-Indigenous brand people nearby.
Speaker 2:You know, like it sort of.
Speaker 3:It is interesting to me. I don't, you know, it's just not our story. So it's not our story of any particular hardship, and sometimes I think that people expect you to have that kind of story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just not ours. My parents had a wonderful time and great friends and as far as I'm aware you know, they were obviously I'm not obviously but there were understanding, I think, some subtle nuances, perhaps growing up or at school, but nothing that I really felt was of any you know, significant detriment to our lives or or personal, you know, personality or an emotion but I love that because I feel like we don't need to hear the hard stories all the time.
Speaker 1:It's nice to hear, actually, that you did come to Australia or parents came to Australia. They had an amazing time, they love it. Like that to me is those stories actually need to probably be told more.
Speaker 3:I completely agree.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be you know, all the other stuff. I feel like yeah.
Speaker 3:I completely agree and I find it kind of interesting we my partner, well, whether or not, um, everyone knows, my part is a restaurateur and we we opened a restaurant earlier this year, um called hopper joint, which was really our kind of love letter to one of our particularly or one of our particular favorite dishes that you know, hoppers um, which is sort of a Sri Lankan street food really, and my mum works there on a Friday and Saturday night still.
Speaker 3:And she just kind of swans in. She's in a sari, fully done, and she goes around and welcomes everybody and puts little bindi or puttu on their foreheads, like the little jewelled piece here, and you know that's kind of a limited watch. She does such an important part for us on friday and saturday nights when she's there and I was thinking about it going like again, like it's just whilst there were these nuances, perhaps when we were first growing up here. Um, you know, she feels, I think, quite proud to be doing this now and celebrating her culture in such a big way um.
Speaker 3:You know how far we've all come, you know, in understanding, you know the cultural fabric that we're very lucky to have and celebrate it. You know and realize that. You know, the value of diversity is pretty much, in my opinion, the one important thing currently within the Australian landscape that people are not discussing. Oh, I love that, it should be constantly. You know, we'll try to look at things and try to put it in the positive spin and it's yeah, it's this value of diversity. I think that everyone is sort of not labelling and you know, I think we're pretty, we should be pretty happy to put a label on it. We're happy to put labels on everything else, but this is one that should be, you know, really valued, really celebrated.
Speaker 2:It's pretty special, and don't you think that food is such a great way to, you know, celebrate different cultures. But I think it's also really important for the interior design industry because you need to have people from different backgrounds in the room. When we're designing spaces, you know, residential is one thing, you know you can have your home however you like it. But when it comes to spaces, you know, like hospitals, um, even retail, um, airports, all of these places where interior designers work, we need to have diversity in the room and I feel like that.
Speaker 2:To be honest, I feel like it's really lacking in interior design and I don't know, I'm scratching my head why? Because when I have taught at RMIT, I actually see the whole world of cultures. I see people from Morocco, from Syria, from Malaysia, from just all around the world, but then when I come out to industry, I don't know what happens to them. But anyway, it's something I do think about and I don't have the answers to. Obviously, it's quite a big one. But, yeah, I think that you know that's beautiful, that you've been able to put your own background into your space that we can all then experience. And I loved Hopper's joint and I loved the way that you incorporated a like a homely kind of atmosphere.
Speaker 3:I don't know if homely is like a cool word to say, but it no, I'm, I'm all for it, I'm all for it. Go, go with homely, I mean, if that's, if that's the word that comes to mind. I mean, the reality is that there were two things with hopper joy and it's like one. Is this like obsession I had with jeffrey barla and also who doesn't? Interestingly to me, some people are not kind of aware of who he is or his work, and I was sort of sitting there racking my brain going. I know that because I studied architecture, not interior design, and I know that in my first year at architecture there was Southeast Asian studies, I guess, or we looked at Southeast Asian architecture.
Speaker 3:I have this feeling that he didn't even pop up um, what we, just I'm so I'm trying to remember, I'm trying to remember yeah um, you know what it was, that that I, some general I missed to have, or whatever it was, but anyway didn't really matter.
Speaker 3:So there's this kind of thing of that. And then there's this other thing which is just like, like memory. You know, childhood, so growing up with all of this sort of random religious iconography around the house was just so common. Growing up with what is it 4, 7, 11, you know everywhere just reminds me of my grandmother. Now, the funniest thing is that when other people come into the restaurant and see these little things, some of them have very specific, you know, memories of Ben Tappage and go oh my gosh, we grew up with this and some of them we've heard yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:I love that. I'm like it's not. I always thought it was just very particular to me, my joke. I don't think so now anymore. It's just a South East Asian way of me.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's I mean the way that you know, in this space you've got this sort of antique round table and it's got a vase with, you know flowers arranged on it. So it's like it does have that you know touch of something from like the grandparents' good room, but it's sort of in a really elevated way though. So yeah, I think that was really clever the way that you've woven in those homely, if I use the wrong word, sorry.
Speaker 3:Let's be, cool. Homely is cool. I just want to be with homely.
Speaker 1:Isn't it funny, though, that the nostalgia thing too, that that can be what makes it feel homely, not necessarily the furniture or the I mean. Obviously that helps in terms of layout and how you're all sitting, particularly like communal tables and things like that, but nostalgia can be what, that connection that people kind of go oh, this is just like suddenly they've got this connection to this space that they've never been in before, and I kind of really love how that can be used for that too.
Speaker 3:Completely. And nostalgia, just as its own category of our conversation, is worth exploring. I mean, that's nostalgia for me, and I guess my assumption was that other people would link into it because I had a connection to it, or at least that was the hope. It wasn't sort of contrived that if it needs to look this way to promote, this thought.
Speaker 2:It's quite authentic.
Speaker 3:Nostalgia is Exactly, but I think that you can play with that in other spaces as well. I mean, I think this year look, my work's pretty particular, I think, or I'd like to think, it has a certain thread, if not super discernible. But you know, I do like going in my week, my week be routine, the few things that I do do for myself to try and get myself thinking incredibly. You know, going to my little local haunts for inspiration, and a lot of them are auction houses. I love the nostalgia of reclaimed pieces. I have a bit of a BMA bonnet about you know the use of the word sustainability.
Speaker 2:So, without going, too far down, but another conversation. You can go down there if you want.
Speaker 3:But just as sustainable as I can be as an interior designer in a world where, more often than not, people are looking to re-evaluate their lives or how they live, for example, and they want new things. So, yeah, there's only so far where we can go, where I think we should just be doing this as a responsible person, and I don't need to shout it from the rooftop that I'm suddenly a really responsible person. I think it just needs to be an understanding in the industry that this is just your responsibility.
Speaker 3:But in terms of just finding beautiful pieces, getting things to second light, that to me feels like the more sustainable way in which we can discuss this topic and, to that point of nostalgia, it's creating a room that feels like it has had a life. I think you can very clearly see when there's a room that looks completely new or, dare I say, a room that has a sort of collective feel to it as a story. I'll often have a chat with clients more to do with the residential side of my practice and we'll be talking about certain pieces in their house. You know, what are we keeping, what are we not keeping? It's always an early conversation I have, and sometimes it just mortifies me to think that they're like no, we're just getting rid of everything.
Speaker 3:And I look around surely, surely there's some hideous bars that you, you know, have in a corner? Um, that you bought when you backpacked in Peru and then casually schlepped all the way back to Melbourne, you know, on your Europe trip or something like that, and I'm like it's. I'm like it's not hideous number one, it probably is. It's whatever they think it is, but you made a decision on your budgeted daily spend to invest in something. It's got a story. It's so special. How do we then celebrate it? Is it on a beautiful stone shelf or a beautiful? And you did Timber Plinthill, blah, blah, blah. Whatever it is that we want to do, and I'm still trying to pull all these pieces out and go. You've actually got an amazing life channel stories. Why would we get rid of everything and then simply replace it with something that you know, you see digitally or um, you know?
Speaker 1:that you kind of don't have that connection to what is the well, what is the connection?
Speaker 3:I'm sort of forming connections for you, so so. So, in terms of think, yeah, nostalgia is something worth discussing, and evaluating your choices and what you purchase, both previously and future purchases, is sort of how I weave that conversation about sustainability into it. All the new purchases are, as far as I'm concerned, they need to be forever purchased. It needs to be something that you go sure we'll give it 10 years and then recover it, but there's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 1:We love it. We all love it. I find that really interesting too, that I think nostalgia and sustainability is like connecting those two things. It's about meaning, isn't it? So it's about to be sustainable with things that you purchase. If you don't place any meaning on those things, then it is very easy to just go. We don't want any of this. We're clearing it, so that first time when you purchased those things, there was probably no thoughtful process behind it, or they just went to one showroom and picked a heap of stuff out, or they'd never loved it in the first place, because they didn't choose something that they loved. They just chose it for some other practical reason.
Speaker 1:And then it makes it easier to get rid of, and this, I guess, goes back to making sure that you really do like, don't just kind of go well, I guess that's fine and that's okay, and we'll just listen to what Brem's saying or Lauren's saying or Bree's saying.
Speaker 3:you still need to love it and have the connection to it for it to be yeah, considered to be sustainable, right and and as a follow-up onto that, the sometimes we'll be discussing pieces and it should be something that everyone's thinking about, but I have to sort of articulate it and go. You know, I'm not living here, like in many ways it has absolutely nothing to do with me, like it really doesn't. I'm here to facilitate and to assist and to advise and to create with you, for you. It has nothing to do with me. I think that when I look through my work, I think I said before like I'm hoping for a thread and I'm still developing it. It's very early on. You know, who knows what that thread is?
Speaker 3:As I said, I think it's constantly a cycle of re-evaluation, reassessment of what we're doing. Am I on the right path? Are the morals the right way? All of these things. But it has nothing to do with this.
Speaker 3:So if someone can pick up something and say, oh, that looks a bit like your work, I'm like, okay, that's really nice. But I would never want someone to say that's definitely brand, because it really shouldn't say anything about me at all. It's about either it's about a brand you know what is their core DNA or it's about a person and their family and their story. And so person and their family and their story, um and so quite often I'll start the story off with them with, like, all the terribly unsexy conversations about. You know how many buns on the seats do you need at a dining table and in your lounge room? You know like that's the stuff and on where are your children putting their? Um, you know myriad bags that kids need to be having all this. It's like you know all of this stuff because they sort yeah, we want to do this renovation, but that's right, we need, you know, essentially, lockers for our house. That's what that would help me.
Speaker 3:Or, you know, I desperately want to showcase all of my grandmother's flatware, or something that would be my dream you know just things like that, all this like super boring practical stuff, and I think it's also because, again, it's still in development, but I've never, ever felt throughout my whole career I'm unsure about any of the decisions I'm making.
Speaker 3:I think the best thing or the best quality I'm trying to hone of myself is to just continue with the confidence that I had, the understanding and the knowledge and the learnings and I think I know what I want to do. It's always developing, but I'm never nervous about what I'm putting forward to a client, ever. It's always a solid thought in my head, or I don't put it forward. So I kind of had this faith that it's going to look beautiful and if you want it to be a hot pink kitchen, I will make it look beautiful if that's what she wants. But it has to be something that you want. I'm just not doing things for the sake of some kind of weird ego or something like I think, yeah, because most of the things I do don't even get photographed, like no one sees them. But the person here is, you know, commissioned to work, I guess.
Speaker 2:So you have that confidence in that you're doing the right thing, because it's what the client wants. But they just don't know how to put that together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have a confidence that it's going to look good. So I'm happy to sort of talk in the first steps about the maths of the room. You, you know the really unsexy mathematics circulation paths and bombs on sets. You know, once we know that we'll need 10 seats because we've dissected that actually once a week the in-laws come over and I've got four children and they bring chiefs and all of that, then at least I know that when I'm proposing the conversation and the brain cells that we're talking about, that we're using in that conversation, are purely about, well, what is the finish and what is the sort of form of it? But we know it's a big, we know it's cb10, there's no there's no option of this and then around and then two, whatever it's, just it's.
Speaker 3:This is what it is, and this is sort of a new part of my practice and I'm trying to hone in on it's like you know, early mud map study, early conversations about this, and trying to take people on a journey to say don't worry about what it's going to look like right now, let's just make sure that it functions the way it needs to function, and then we'll talk about what it looks like because you need a table. That's point one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, whether the table is pink, blue or green is kind of irrelevant at this stage. We will work on this together and most of the time through these conversations you end up learning more about the client.
Speaker 2:Anyway, they'll let something speak or make a comment.
Speaker 3:And then you'll sort of take this information and go.
Speaker 1:Well, I know that they don't like green and therefore I won't be proposing a green table. Unless I really want it. That's another one, that's a different, sorry, unless you think they really want it, Bram. Unless, you think they really want it. I think they really want it, Bram unless you think they really want it.
Speaker 3:It's kind of amazing some of the things they get through when they're like no, it's okay, we'll see, but only because I think there's enough to back it up. If we can tick off like three or four checklist boxes, I think that you can help explain to people why it's a good thing, but it is always their decision. As I said, I don't live there. There, imagine coming home and saying, oh, bloody bram and the stupid green table that I hate.
Speaker 1:you know, I'm just like the worst one yeah, but I think that's interesting, that I feel like, um, you know, I totally respect that, that there's no ego in it and it is about the client, because I feel like we should all be like that. And I know that you do start to form a maybe a little bit of an aesthetic as as you go and people can kind of pick up on that. But what still makes the project great is not that. It's usually the things that you've done because of the brief or because you needed to make it work for that person, and then that's kind of where it becomes a bit more authentic, and then that's sort of the thing that comes through, I think absolutely.
Speaker 3:Parameters are what make the design work harder, like the more you can explain or tell about how you want to live, the better it is.
Speaker 3:Like like the bums on seats things. I say that like five times a day because people just forget and I'm like, but if you have this gigantic boardroom type dining table, where are these people sitting when we're having a drink before or after? Yes, on bottom, what I'll find is you know I mean no criticism, but it kind of is a criticism is sometimes some jobs that I might inherit if I haven't been involved from the very beginning with an architect, for example, is that sort of block works furniture that just arrives there is is the best way to sort of show how it's undoing in, how so much actually works. And often there'll be a room where I'm sitting here going. This doesn't work because I'm actually 10 meters away from television. So, yeah, like how is this actually going to work?
Speaker 3:like it's all well and good to put a random chair in the middle of the room, but that's not how we're living. And then there's a gigantic dining room which seats 20 people and I think again where do these people go before and after this dinner? Nobody goes to a dinner party and sits directly down, so yeah, so the shape of rooms and the formation of the plan can very quickly become undone.
Speaker 3:So I'm gonna. These are important questions that you need to be asking front and that's also suggest that people don't. It's just, unfortunately, recently there've been a few situations like this where I've looked at it and god, god, it feels like a waste of time. It starts to unfairly undermine people's work when all they're ever going to do is the best. But then you've got to kind of work within those inputs and, you know, just try to get everybody back on track without throwing anyone under the bus as well, because that's not what anyone's about.
Speaker 2:I don't know, no, and I think sometimes it is just like stepping through. You know, a bit of a like a story, telling the story, like what you said before Okay, kids, school bags, where are they going? Okay, they go there. That's why we've designed it like this. And then when you have a dinner party, this is where people are going to be, and then they're going to go there. But for your every day, this is where you're going to be and you, and sometimes you get a floor plan. That's quite bad. It makes us look like geniuses, because you're just like pointing out some of these really basic things, but some floor plans that don't capture those basic things.
Speaker 2:So but I think what's really interesting from your point of view, bram, is that you know you work across disciplines. So what I was noticing in some of your residential work was some aspects that I thought oh, that looks like a bit of a hospitality touch there. We've got like a built-in bar. That looks you know. So do you sort of find that they kind of feed into each other and, like what we said with Hopper's Joint, it had that residential kind of feel to it as well.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I think there was always this conversation. I think in the last few years that things were moving towards, you know, softening off of of um, commercial spaces. You know, now I actually had a conversation with a friend many years ago. I don't ever forget it was this. It was she's a lawyer. It was a conversation about her law firm um, I won't name moms, but like she had a slightly at the time I thought it was a cynical view, but I've been thinking about it ever since, about the investment that the firm had made in their interiors and I said, you know, it has this lovely residential feel. And she made a point she goes of course it does, bram, because they don't want us to ever leave. And I did think that that was. I did think it was actually so hilarious. Her view of it was not unkind, but just it was a bit like that's what they do, because you know, we're meant to be here.
Speaker 3:It's not untrue right it's not untrue and it and it isn't untrue, but but I sort of challenged you and said that's not unfair. That's more probably more to do with you than them, but that also is improving your quality of the time you're spending at the office. You know, yeah, how you interact, as opposed to a whiteboard box and desk, and sort of situation, to the flexibility to have meetings in lounge rooms and things like that.
Speaker 3:Yes, it works both ways. And following on from that, I would just say you know I don't often like to talk so much about COVID because I'm quite happy to sort of leave it in the past. But you know it was a global game changer yeah Well, a global game changer for how people understood their faith and, I think, for our industry. It was incredible. I actually was unbelievably busy during and post COVID.
Speaker 2:Same.
Speaker 3:Simply with people having conversations, or at least starting the conversations of. I'm finally suddenly spent time in my house and realized how much I am disappointed with the way I live, and I usually disappointed because that was what people said. They said I can't believe, I just let things go. I don't want to live like this. This isn't what I wanted from my life. I don't enjoy my house. I don't have a dining table. We've just been makeshifting it for years and thinking it's fine.
Speaker 3:And you know small, small things which were interesting because it wasn't like a lot of fool, I need to renovate. It was just like one of what are the rooms I need to work with, and the reason is because a lot of people had to work from home, so they suddenly went. One I don't have anywhere to work from, or two, I'm at a table which I detest, and this is what I see every day. So of course, that was going to shift the conversation in terms of interior design now into what does that mean for the use of all of these rooms? I took some challenges from that or some learnings from that, which were very interesting. It wasn't just about working, it was just understanding what you do in all of these rooms. Um, you know what are the purposes of them.
Speaker 3:I previously was living in an apartment with my husband and it was, um, quite a beautiful apartment and the lounge had sort of these almost, you know, 360 degree views of, or like a view out of it, all quite in place, and so there wasn't any particular space to actually put a television, and if I did, it really reoriented the way of all of our furniture work. It was kind of a bit shitty, and so I was looking at a spare room going. I really don't know who's staying we very rarely have guests and so to turn a spare bedroom into what we call our TV room, and I had two vintage Maralungas which we were very lucky to find, you know, in the country, and I recovered them twice and I do rather, we've had these two, you know, meter by meter chairs that basically filled the room and the TV, and it was just the greatest room ever, because we don't watch a lot of television, but when we do it's very specific, like we're disgusted, it's so disgusting Like there's an episode of bad no, casual watching.
Speaker 3:It's not like the tv's just on in the background. Yeah, um, but that's particular to us, you know. So then all of a sudden, the lounge could be reoriented, and I ask people this all the time. I'm like do you even want television here, you?
Speaker 3:this is what the purpose of this room is, or are you wanting to be in a cute snug in your pajamas, you know, with two other people? Like, who do you watch television with? Like you invite friends over? That rarely happens, I don't know, so like that's not the greatest example. But that's just one thing. Where I go, we can challenge the way we do and lay out things, um, and, and you know, if we flip the conversation to retail, I mean retail. You see, retail has been huge for me personally. I've been really lucky to work with some incredible brands.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Bram, all Australian.
Speaker 2:I was looking at your website and I was just like, oh my God, you are busy. Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I fell that far back, sorry, I'm still catching up, but it's interesting. Like you know, I worked with if I could give a couple of examples, like working with Perry, clinton was wonderful. Georgie and Will from the Austin Group had taken the brand on and, you know, taken them into their stable of brands and Clinton knew that it needed a little bit of a shake-up, but nothing detrimental to the pericardium kind and I think it's always sort of the temptation to go.
Speaker 3:We're changing up. It's got to be new and hip and whatever. When I go it does, but we can't scare off the people who are buying the product yeah, that's respectful exercise, isn't it?
Speaker 3:um, and you're right, it's disrespectful to them. You know, loyal customers, it's. It's so, um, what we did was and they were so. They were so generous to allow this as well. And, and you know, retail has crazy timeline. There are lease agreements involved.
Speaker 3:There's a million things behind the scene that we're not really always privy to, or I put up a wall and say I don't want to know about. Yeah, just, actually, that's, that's your, and there was so, but I still said time. I think we need to take a step back. Like no design. Don't show me a floor plan. It's just about the brand. What do we want to do with it? How can we do like just a high level brand DNA workshop, related to interiors, of course, but like just kind of going you've got some pillars, you've got some DNA, but what does that mean for us? What does that look like, apart from just your clothing, which obviously changes seasonally and is therefore not always a sort of great, you know a great way to start. And then, on the other hand, working with Peep recently has been completely eye-opening.
Speaker 3:They had sort of undergone their own internal brand analysis a few years ago and from that they have developed a really, really strict, I would say, set of core values and guidelines for how they want to appear, how they need their store to look.
Speaker 3:But one of the greatest things that happened recently was that High Street Armadale has opened and we'll call that sort of, I guess, a flagship store for the brand and we had a meeting recently to discuss, you know what I was able to challenge them with that has been redefined a bit of their core, you know brand dna rules and what worked and what didn't work. Some of the things we've done haven't worked. Some of them have worked spectacularly, but they've been so, um, generous and so good as to absorb these as well and go. What are the learnings? And we, we distill this out even further into a better package. Um, coming to the end of this year, we would have done, you know, started with Dish Bondi, which was a flagship for them, high Street Armidale. There's a store in Caringap, claremont Quarter, james Street, and you know there's more on the horizon.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, have you done all of those stores, have you? Yeah?
Speaker 3:And every time that we get in, what have you? Yeah, and every time that we get in.
Speaker 2:What do you sleep I?
Speaker 3:don't know, I'm not familiar.
Speaker 2:Can't answer that.
Speaker 3:No, oh my gosh, I just sit there and go. You know, funky, that is so wonderful. I'm so proud of what we've done together. But it's never been an assumption. I kind of assumed I'd do two, but then they'd try and some other designer and move on Like I was just ashamed. It was like you've got two good ones, brad, like be happy and don't be greedy. That's great. But they seem so happy. I guess now you know to continue this and you know, I think, like I would hope that as they develop you know they work I hope that they do work with other people. I think it would be great for them, great for their breath, and then, you know, I might come back to them in a few years with something else.
Speaker 1:So well, I guess working with someone else would make a would, I guess, mean that they do a similar thing that they did where you challenge them, yeah, and then it improves. I guess sometimes there's a point with brands where they do need to work with someone else, so they get that happening again and everyone doesn't get too comfortable maybe, um, but at the same time.
Speaker 2:You're completely right. But, as you said, you know they've um taken a minute to reflect and say this worked amazingly, but this didn't work. So you've already got, they've already invested all of that in you so you can probably hit the ground running like then they've stuck with someone new and start again also being on the on the permanent contract yeah, absolutely it's great, but um, I guess I just, I just, you know, respectfully, simply be like.
Speaker 3:You know you can't be something to error at all times and and and any brands in particular, flex and grow and change as, yeah, as trends, you know, if that's the word um demand and internal business structure and whatever, and so you just need to be flexible and nothing's a given nothing significant, no, you can never.
Speaker 1:I know it's really.
Speaker 2:You've got to remind yourself that all the time yeah, um, and you mentioned that dish store in bondi and that is sublime that store. Haven't actually been to it but, um, I loved the way that it has like as we were sort of talking about that resident that residential feel. It's got like a lounge room in there. It's not just like a little chair in the corner for the boyfriend to sit on while she's doing her thing, it's like a full-on lounge room. So how do you put forward an idea like that to the client To give them?
Speaker 3:credit. Actually, the lounge is something that Dish is very, very passionate about, so I will say that to them. I also agree I can't stand a single chair for the boyfriend or husband or girlfriend or whatever. Yeah. So, but even before that, I was quite comfortable with doing smaller arrangements of furniture throughout.
Speaker 3:Dishes, a brand, are very particular about their belief in the lounge itself and and a very generous one, and this is what I mean like to give them the credit. It was incredible having this conversation where you know, as I said before, the maths, the unsexy stuff is so integral to a, to a, to a retail store, as it is to any project, I think. But you know, looking at lineal meters and and things like that for hanging and and folded spaces, um, even though I do like to always inquire about some moments of relief, I kind of call them whether it's a hospitality offering or just a table for flowers for the sake of its beauty, but also circulation. Um, you know, everything's got to work for a few checkpoints. In my mind it can't just be for one thing. But they very actively understand this lounge reduces the capacity for five extra meters of product which will be sold like they're making very, very considered um informed business decision in this. So for them.
Speaker 3:it is all about the lounge, but I do find it interesting with other brands to have that discussion and it's to do with so many things. You know, whatever their rent is, what the lease agreement is, what they can afford to do, some stores are there to promote, I think and this is not dishes, this is retail, I think in general to promote a brand as a club or as an understanding of what they are about socially and online and what their presence is in the world, and probably very little to do with actually buying anything from that particular store.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was curious about that. I used to do a bit of retail design but it's more for, like, big brands back 10 plus years ago. But yeah, it was like, as you were saying, the hanging space, the folded space, that real estate in a store, like when Westfield Sydney opened up, it was so expensive so to have that luxury of that lounge experience. But this was probably when, was it? Oh my gosh, it was probably 15 years ago now, so that's different time. And online shopping, well, it existed, but it was a different way of a retail store these stores were I was designing for, um, I guess Aldo.
Speaker 2:Gap when they opened up, um, they were to sell stock. You know, that was that was it. It wasn't really thought about. Oh, it's going to showcase the brand, but yeah, things have changed and I think that's also maybe even a post-COVID thing too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's online too. I mean, one of the first retailers I worked with was Henny, and now we've just completed a second store for them in Five Way, sydney, but that started as purely online, it was an only digital presence.
Speaker 3:Was it and to move to brick and mortars is so interesting and, again, for me, their particular brand in a is very interesting as well. The buildings are incredible, they're beautiful, they're evocative, they've got history, whether it's on gravel street sorry, um, yeah, gravel street or in five ways, you know. They're beautiful terraces almost, and they've got charm and whimsy. I don't necessarily see them as the most super functional for retail, but that's because their garments have displayed more as art pieces. Um, they've got an incredible brand following from women mostly and men, I think, as well now who have been purchasing with them online for years and they know the fits and they know how the cuts work. So to buy online is is just easy, but to go to the store to experience a bit of their the sort of you know what it is to be in.
Speaker 3:That brand is artistic and fun and you spend an hour at least and you're wandering around and you know that's why the Henny home was so interested in little artful inflections and investing in beautiful pieces from overseas to have a sort of more global appeal in their store design. Beautiful pieces from overseas to have a sort of more global appeal in their store design. You know they let me find tables, stuff that you can't really get across the line often in a commercial environment. But Henny's always been very trusting of the vision and embraced that as well and said just, you know, once they get the mats done, they're happy to let me do things.
Speaker 3:You know I'm very proud of both stores. I think Sydney is a pretty incredible experience. I think if you took all the clothes out you could start to hang some beautiful pieces and it would have a gallery-like feel, you know, without being too austere, but it's got this really lovely. But again, that is their particular um, you know brand direction of where they want to go, um, and that might change in the coming years as well, um well, that's if anything.
Speaker 2:If anything's true in retail, it is change, isn't it? Yeah and that, um, that store on gravel street that won the best in the best commercial interior, for the bell for newly awards and that year I think 2022 you were also named the best emerging interior designer. But I mean, you're not exactly like new to interior design, so could you just give us like what has been your so-called journey? I know that's overused that term, but yeah, how did you start your own practice? Well, it was interesting.
Speaker 3:It was just before COVID, just before COVID, and I had sort of come back over the break and thought about, yeah, I think this is now the right time to do this. I think sometimes there might be a confidence, but it's maybe a bit for show. I can't move without my brain telling me that it's the right time. So I've definitely been in situations, even more recently, where I've gone. You know, an amazing business person would have made this move two years ago, you know. Or an amazing business person would have made the decision three years ago and it would have been exponentially amazing.
Speaker 2:Oh, don't be so hard on yourself.
Speaker 3:I just had to be aware that I can only do things when my brain and my body are both working together, and I'm very aware sometimes that there's a decision to be made that is the right decision. But I can't do feel quite stalled and I won't do it until I'm ready to do it myself, like I need to get everything on board, all the little factions working in my head on the bargain. It's like everyone's got to the meeting. It's a yeah, signing this off.
Speaker 2:Um, it's not how many people are up there oh god, too many, they're not everyone, everyone has to sign off.
Speaker 3:It's so funny Because I just need my confidence to do it in myself. It's not me to make a jump and a leap of faith. It's very not me to do it. I don't have a sense of like this. Is it to just do it? I need to, like, run the figures, do your spreadsheet, think about it for an extra two years. It sounds like a really good business decision.
Speaker 1:To me, though, when you, when you've actually put the work in because it's like it's almost like going back to what you're saying or even just talking about a floor plan, right, and then there's all these rules of like what's expected it's the same thing with business is, yes, we can kind of go. I I probably say similar things about myself. I'm not a business person, but you are because you made this decision that was right for you at the time, and not necessarily what maybe looked good on paper in black and white. I mean, I think that's a credit to being a creative person. You've got to take that into account too, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, the best thing I can do is to surround myself with the right people. That is something that I was always very aware of is to surround myself with the right people. That is something that I was always very aware of. So I did think, yeah, when I couldn't make a decision myself, who around me is someone who will help me shape this thought process?
Speaker 1:further.
Speaker 3:I think I am getting a bit faster at making the better decisions. Then summer comes down to just the situation I'm in, or the quantity of work or what it is I want to achieve next year. It's been pretty amazing the last four years of just you know things, building off things. But I'm really into relationship. That's what I think the business is about. So you know, if I look back at the body of work to think that at a minimum you know there's been at least two you know projects with the same client, at a minimum.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:Is what I want out of my practice. I've got this friend, um, who I met through my husband actually, and he's um, his name is ken stringer and he's an incredible designer. Um, you know, studied in paris, old school design, old school design. I've always kind of looked up to kenji and bought. Kentis does his own thing. There's amazing houses. He's solely residential, but the way his practice is built is, you know, parents apartment here, then the house in tour, then it's their daughter's apartment, like it's generational trust. I think that's beautiful. Generational trust is something that you know sometimes gets overshadowed over past in conversations of who's it, you know who's popular and how do I leverage this and whatever it is as opposed to who's the right bit. But you know, right tool, right job. I kind of always think so. Even if I'm pitching for a job, I just go to the client. At the end of the day I'm vetting you as much as you're vetting me yeah, I'm the only one with a website that tells people what I do.
Speaker 3:I'm very happy I had a pretty frank conversation with them and say, look, you go away and think about it. I'm also going to go away and, to be honest, if I get a funny feeling in my stomach, I'll probably just say to you I directly grow a good fit, but what can I do to help you find someone else that we're not good?
Speaker 1:like it's something you can trust yourself to, to be able to say no to the wrong things so that you can find the right things right, oh, lol, it doesn lol.
Speaker 3:It doesn't always happen. Sometimes I make a complete blabber, but I do try.
Speaker 3:I am trying to see if there are red flags, and I mean that generous. I advertise with myself too. If I go, this job is out of the scope of my understanding, this is not going to bode well. It's going to be, you know, I'll end up fucking this up and ruining everything. So I think on both sides we kind of have to have a think about it and go don't just take things for the fake of it. It's a great, great job. It needs to be the right job that I'm capable of doing as well, and also some people are just difficult. On the other side, I think we all know that that's just humans. It is what it is, and if you can work with them, then great. I find it very stressful, so I try to avoid it when I can it just impacts our life so much.
Speaker 2:I mean I can't really separate my business and my life. So at the moment we have the best clients. We have clients that I just know when the phone rings I'm going to be like almost crying with laughter because she's hilarious. Or I'm going to have great discussions with one of my clients for an hour about business, before we even talk about the. You know, it's just an absolute pleasure. Um, and you know, as you said it's, some people are just not the right fit for me. We don't click, we have. We're coming from a different point of view. It costs me money actually to take on their projects.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think it.
Speaker 2:You know I can't. I wish I could say, oh, I can pick and choose and all of that. You know, got to keep the lights on sometimes, but I think the longer that you're in business, the more you're just like I'm holding out.
Speaker 1:I'm holding out.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have to let that one go because I'm going to keep my door open for this amazing, wonderful client to come in.
Speaker 3:Completely. I had a. We did it earlier this year. We did it earlier this year. I usually do like a client's Christmas theme issue. This year I did a lunch and I scheduled it towards the end of November, not realizing that everyone was thinking the same thing as me and November ended up being December. But you know, I was sitting in the corner at one point of this lunch, like overseeing all of the clients together with my glass of wine, like a real creep, and just watching them and I do feel like so crap, only because it was like hideously like I was thinking there were two clients who knew each other, but otherwise no one knew anybody else.
Speaker 1:I love that and it's awesome.
Speaker 3:On the day, because previously I don't like stand up these on the day. I thought, oh God, prem, what on earth have you done? No one knows anybody, so you're forcing them to sit down with people they don't know and I would personally like get my anxiety would go through the roof. But somehow it all worked out really nicely and and to your point, lauren, like yeah, I just went oh, this is a really really fun, good group of people, you know, with compatible family, largely, values and and that's why they're along Like I shouldn't have been freaked out about it, it was all perfectly fine, I love that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's beautiful. What a gorgeous thing to do. I've never done that with clients before, but occasionally we'll be invited to their Christmas party gathering and they're just like so proud of their home they want to show it off and it's really fulfilling, Like you know, the accolades not that I've really got accolades, but you know, when your work gets published or whatever, it's very nice.
Speaker 2:But I feel like that moment when you know your clients are really proud and thankful and it's so fulfilling. And I suppose, like you know, you probably get that sense even more through hospitality and retail because you can kind of sneak in and see people. I don't know, do people just go in want to like touch all that travertine, or is that just what we do?
Speaker 3:well, as I said, before yeah, as I said before, with my ineptness. I'm pretty technologically inept, I'm a bit so setting up I was the one that sent you the wrong link took all of my energy this morning, um, but I don't.
Speaker 3:I also am trying to limit all of my screen time. I don't talk, talk, tiktok or whatever it is. I don't do that and, um, I'm really not cool. And so I have friends who do tiktok and they'll send me tiktok videos of people who go to the retail stores. I didn't know that this was a thing, that people go in there and they take videos, and they do send me TikTok videos of people who go to the retail stores. I didn't know that this was a thing, that people go in there and they take videos and they do little voiceovers and whatever. And so I do find it quite hilarious when they're talking about stuff, and even they've been sending me tons of them from Dish Armadale recently, where they're going to the chain gyms and they can't go over. There there's carpet on the walls and stuff and everyone's touching the carpet.
Speaker 1:Oh I love it.
Speaker 3:I could have it at this carpet, on the walls and stuff, and everyone's touching the carpet and I'm secretly, really, really proud. And then, on the other hand, I'm like I should probably hands off the carpet. I really like that. You're going to get fake tan on it. I'm never going to get through again. What are you doing? You're not healthy me, hey, nan, you're okay, it's hilarious. All right clothes on, don't touch anything, Just stay in the middle of the room.
Speaker 1:Put on white gloves as you enter the change room.
Speaker 3:I would if I could.
Speaker 2:So, bren, we've got a couple of questions. If we can just round out, yeah, please. So clearly you're the best dressed in every room that you enter, so I'm curious to know, like, how does fashion influence you? Know how you express yourself?
Speaker 3:Look, I think that it's a bit of an armour in some ways, but I've always been interested. In fact, when I graduated it was when did I graduate? 2010. Does that make sense? Must be, must be, and it wasn't a recession as such, but it was not a great time, if you recall, and certainly no one was hiring any graduate architects at the time. It was unworkable slim pickings, if you recall, and certainly no one was hiring any graduate architects at the time. It was, it was unworkable slim pickings. Um I I went through university with a pretty cool group, um, who I'm still friends with and they're all doing incredible things across the globe, um, but apparently none of them could get a job. It was quite hilarious. To me, it's like what do you do with the masters of architecture and graduating with honors and all this rubbish when you can't get a job?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so true.
Speaker 3:I was doing some jewelry at the time because it was a side hobby, and I found out by Keegan, who still has her label Keegan the Label because she's a fashion designer and she's one of the most impressive people I know. She makes clothes and sells them. You know that period and she has now for what decades I think. She's an incredible woman and she and I went and did a niece course and we um then opened up a store in auburn village called swoon and it was basically just a very early example of of consignment. So it was all australian designers and basically it was a way for us to have an income and do things. But we had it for we had it for a year and a half and then we were both sort of doing our own thing Even still is making clothing under her label and artwork. And then I was doing part-time work with some interior designers and we were slowly transitioning and then we sold the business, which was amazing.
Speaker 3:But I guess you know, like I was always interested in fashion, even in this small way. I think that it's a personal brand thing as well, like people are becoming a bit more aware of that as well, that you know how you present yourself to the world through it's. It's not an ideal thing, but through the lens of social media, it's just part of the conversation now it's stuck with it, so people can find you at all sorts of things. Um, recently I've been trying, you know, not not trying very hard because, honestly, the clothing is so great, but I've been wearing clothing from all the brands I work with. Um know, nothing is your pleasure than to purchase from them, or nothing you do or close to them, to purchase from a friend as well.
Speaker 3:I'm not a massive believer in sort of mates, traits types, things. I think you know if you want to support someone, you support them, and that's just kind of what you do, and particularly in our industry as well, I just think, yeah, if you want to support a photographer or a stylist or someone to come and help you, you just, you know, if you can afford to do it, you do it, and if you can't, then you can't. Um, so yeah, I think clothing is part of a personal brand is fine. I don't have enough wardrobe space, so I'm going to be considering that over my holiday break, what I'm going to be doing with some of the clothes if there's anything you've got your eye on.
Speaker 3:Yeah I don't ship you yet to the new, to the new Ida we'll see you had a good question, bree go.
Speaker 1:Well, so obviously, with your husband also, being in the hospitality industry is a big part of your life, right? So I'm thinking is there something, some amazing kind of foodie experience you've had like that you just will never forget?
Speaker 3:Recently. Look, I, as you can see, I'm in my gym gear because I got up early to go. I'm not very motivated fitness wise, except for the fact that I eat like I just live to eat, at least because eat first design can come second.
Speaker 3:I say I say eat first. Design second is because I get design from Ishii. If I'm explaining something to someone, I hopefully, and so I collect cookbooks as well, and I don't cook. I don't cook at all, but I collect them because I think they're poetry and I think that it's where design is. If I'm explaining something to someone about layering and a landscape of furniture and fabrics and whatever it can be, just like speaking in Latin, like it's something that they can't even conceive of, even though they interact with all of these pieces.
Speaker 3:But you know, possibly if you're the advent of MasterChef or something like that or just the way things are, if you're explaining to someone that you know this dish needs something wet and something crispy and something salty, and then it needs something soft on the top and a bit of a puff of something and then a sauce, they go. Yeah, I completely agree. People, people know when they eat, it's so fun, oh, I love it. It's really dry and really salty and it's like, yes, it should have been on a nice wet, creamy something or other that softened the palate, whatever. It's so easy to absorb and understand, oh that's so fun and clever yeah it's from my design world.
Speaker 3:The eating is there, but just also because I'm at the mid button, I just like eating. So, to answer your question, definitely one of the highlights this year has been um. We've got a place um, it's a crumbling literally crumbling mud rick cottage shack, I dare say is the word um in a place called carl's rue, which is just outside of Kyneton and quite close by to us, about a 40-minute drive, is Heatgate. Yeah, and there's an incredible restaurant there called Spawnsea. It's playing for a thing that's called Chauncey, with our husband and wife team, kirsten and Louis, and you know they're winning awards I don't know tomorrow, but we were pretty lucky to get in there when they were very early on. Nothing has changed since that day, by the way, except for the amount of people who are now on a wait list.
Speaker 1:But I think that as an experience, I'm going to go put myself on that wait list.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that as an experience and as a drive out is incredible. You know it's a minimum four anglers, but it's not what. I would call foams and farts, food which I can't eat, like I don't have the patience for it.
Speaker 2:Say that again. What did you say?
Speaker 3:Farts and farts food, like things that obviously have been done with their tweezers or whatever which there is a place for it, and no respect, it's just not my particular enjoyment of eating any food that looks like what it says it is.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 3:So it's more than four hours because you go for a walk in the garden and you take your drink out and you relax and go see the vegetables and the chickens.
Speaker 2:Oh how beautiful. That's why it takes so much experience.
Speaker 3:It's not just about sitting there and eating. It's more than that Eating some farts. Yeah, exactly, it's awful, but you know, because I've said it, now you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:I Hilarious so one last thing and we'll let you get back on with your day. Can you think of something to tell us that hardly anybody knows about you?
Speaker 3:I do recall reading this question and then I didn't really put it on the floating train. I'm a bit nervous.
Speaker 2:I know it's like a bit of a random one.
Speaker 3:I don't know, and also because I don't feel like these days I'm a very private person. I don't know that I've got that. I mean, you know there's nothing shocking other than you know I'm obsessed with. You know, pure dramas, basically written.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:So it's quite often that I don't know whether it's a symptom of the way my brain works, but I find a lot of comfort in repetitious things, so wandering around the house or the farm with my Downton Abbey playing on my phone in my pocket is something that gives me a lot of comfort.
Speaker 1:I love Downton.
Speaker 3:Everybody offers a little weirdness. I love that. You actually think about what? Yeah, interestingly, if I wasn't going to be a designer, I was thinking about this the other day when someone asked me. I had two professions in mind. One was to be a chef. I could be able to speak to you, so in a weird way, I had a lot of friends who were teachers and then I ended up my only chef. So I feel like I just thought everything I needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you've rounded it out.
Speaker 2:And you've given us a beautiful lesson today in design, so we appreciate that. And what about? Does? Jason love the period dramas too, so when you're talking about what you're going to watch, does he?
Speaker 3:he's not so into it and he definitely has an eye roll, if you can hear down to moment in the background. But it's more, again, it is. It's more. It's not just the stories that are brilliant, it is the design, it's the houses. It's something I've always thought about was just, you know, would I ever live in a house that would be big and grand enough that I had a morning room and an afternoon room so lavish? In those houses you moved around the room, depending on the people that don't do that. No, no, I think that I've always thought about those things when I'm watching it as well, as just, you know, sort of petty drama unfolding, sort of petty drama unfolding, although I would argue that Dan took it quite clever, so yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:It's funny I'm jumping back to that other question because I just need to add this that I didn't know you were in Karlsruhe. I knew you were kind of Macedon Ranges area because that's where I grew up as well. I grew up in Gisborne, but my relation to food and Karlsruhe is it was the only like you've got the truck stop. It was the only thing open. So when you were up very late as a teenager driving around and doing who knows what, we won't talk about that now we would drive to.
Speaker 1:Karlsruhe, just to get snacks.
Speaker 3:That's cute. I have to tell you that they still make an amazing and very clean burda, and it is 10 out of 10. So I'm very aware of the truck stop BP station at Karlsruhe. It's a very important landmark for the town. So I'm with you, brie, I'm with you 100%.
Speaker 1:I'll have to make a stop there next time I'm going out that way again.
Speaker 3:Well, speaking of nostalgia, you absolutely will, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, my gosh Prem, that was the best chat. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1:I know you're extremely busy and thanks for the generosity. Thank you for having me. This is brilliant. Squeeze you in pre-Christmas.
Speaker 3:I love what you're both doing. I love what you're both doing. I love what you're both doing here.
Speaker 1:I love what you're both doing individually.
Speaker 3:But as a social experiment, I love what you do, I love to speak and how you talk about design and inclusivity. It's amazing and thanks for having me, thanks for being my friend.
Speaker 2:Such a pleasure. Back at you. Thanks, brim, see you, bye, bye. So thank you guys for listening in and just a quick reminder if you would like some help with the interiors for your own home, I can help you in a course called the Style Studies Essentials. Or for designers out there, come into the Design Society for business and marketing and all of the things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in the same show notes you'll find a link to sign up for my soon-to-be-released furniture collections, pre-selected furniture collections and cool trend information, and then, in the future, some short courses on styling and trends as well.
Speaker 2:So good Bree. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. For the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, they're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you. From this podcast today, a big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.