Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
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Design Anatomy
Elevating Colour & Pattern in Interiors with Nicole Dohmen of Atelier ND
Nicole Dohmen from Atelier ND Interior in Amsterdam brings a refreshing perspective to the world of interior design, and she's here to share her colorful approach with us. Ever wondered how to create a home that feels truly yours? Nicole reveals the secrets behind her stunning designs, including the one featured on the cover of Elle Decoration.
From the art of using color and pattern to crafting interiors that brim with joy and personality, Nicole emphasizes patience and the organic evolution of design. She also offers insight into the unique challenge of harmonizing bold colors in open-plan homes and how a client's personal style—even through their wardrobe—can guide the design process. Listen as we unpack her techniques for creating spaces that resonate with individuality.
What's the secret to a harmonious home that both partners love? Nicole delves into the intricacies of intuitive design, highlighting the importance of involving both individuals in the process to ensure shared satisfaction. By tapping into subtle cues from quieter clients, she expertly balances desires and bold stylistic choices. Listen out as we discuss one of her client projects - a client that happens to be a very prominent Australian actor!
Our conversation also ventures into the vibrant world of office spaces, advocating for colors that defy stereotypes and reflect personal taste. Whether you're a young professional seeking a sanctuary or a creative spirit yearning for a lively environment, this episode promises to inspire and challenge conventional design norms. Tune in for a dose of creativity that could transform your living or working space into a true expression of joy.
Please do check out her gorgeous work on the Atelier ND Interior website & follow her on instagram @atelier.nd.interior
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
Need an expert to guide you on how to create your DREAM home? Join the Style Studies Essentials course, learn more: STYLE STUDIES ESSENTIALS
Hey designers, let's get you working on amazing projects, increase your fees and straighten out your process. Lauren Li helps interior designers at all stages of their career inside THE DESIGN SOCIETY
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Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast by friends and fellow designers me, laLuren Lee, and me, brie Bantfield, and with some amazing guests along the way. We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style and, with a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and lived-in spaces, we're really excited to share our insights and inspiration with you. And if you would love to dive in a little bit deeper, I've got a course called the Style Studies Essentials where I can help you create your own dream home and, for any designers listening, I can also help you too with your business marketing, fees, process, all the things, and there is a link down there in the show notes. Yes, I've been part of the Design Society and it's quite fabulous. You can also find in the show notes a link to sign up to be notified when I release my pre-selected furniture collections and also some short courses on styling and trends. So cool, brie, love it.
Speaker 1:And, brie, I think everyone is going to love this episode today where we talk to Nicole Dohmen of Atelier ND, based in Amsterdam. She is an absolute joy to talk to. I think we could have talked for hours and hours because her style is never boring. Her spaces are warm, really personal and always with an edge, and I just love the way she uses colour and print. So let's dive in to this beautiful episode with the beautiful Nicole of Atelier ND. Welcome, nicole, we are so thrilled to be talking with you all the way from Amsterdam. It's so cool.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking that the first time I came across your projects and it was this cover of Elle Decoration I've got it. I've got it. It tells me dead one, yes. And it just popped off the newsstand Like it just looked so gorgeous. I grabbed it and it's all torn because I've always had it on the top of my little pile of magazines. Of course we've all got, you know, toddlers and kids, so I've stuck it back together. But oh my gosh, it's so gorgeous, so we're super chuffed to have you here, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us. I love that cover. I love that as well. I love that as well. And, of course, when a project is on the cover, I'm always so thrilled and it's so cool that everybody likes it. So, yeah, that's very nice. Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 1:And then you know, when I'm looking at the project and I'm diving in and I'm looking at all of the images and sort of almost trying to walk my way through the house, like they just pull you in all of the images and it's just so joyful the way that you use color and pattern. It's so expressive and I think that it just stands out. So, and I always was like, oh gosh, that's a cool designer over there, like what's going on over there. So I'm like so interested to learn more. So, um, brie and I, we both love color as well and pattern and lean into that. Um, we have a few things we would love to learn and love to know about how you work. So what I'm really curious about is how do you design an interior to match the client's personality? Because I think I read in that article that you almost had to say to the client whoa, let's just rein it in a bit, so that's kind of nice for the client.
Speaker 2:Yeah gosh, I wish I had to say that well, I think, um, in Holland, you see, like different interiors, you have more like all the beige and the neutral tones, or you have the ones which express color the most. For this particular client, of course, she's like a Dutch actress and she has this bold taste herself. Her clothes are amazing and I think that's the starting point of every project to see the client see what they wear, how they are. And for this project, I think it's very nice when you have this specific eye for color, like when you look at a painting, it's not blue and red, but there is like thousands of expressions for blue and also for the other colors. And this client loves color so much.
Speaker 2:And the house is like an open plan. So the difficulty with the house was that it all has to match, especially when it goes around on one floor, so when you go from the living, know, from the, from the living room, to the kitchen, to the bathroom. So I think, uh, that was, in this case, particularly like challenging. And the other thing with color is that, uh, we took like a lot of time and I know the process when you're an interior designer. Everybody wants it, it yesterday, they want it fast, it has to be done too late.
Speaker 2:And I do like it when an interior it's when you have time to evolve or you have like this first layout with colors and maybe in three months, when you are more into the project, you think, oh, I had like Lila in the first place, but now I like I don't know another, you better, or and I like that. So in this project we took like a lot of time. We had like sessions almost every week. It was like everything was out in the open and I know in the evening she called me. I don't know about today, maybe I'm out of the blue and I'm like okay, but just everything was finished. So I'm a very patient person. So the end result I think is very nice in this project, yeah, and also because of food type.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Sorry, Nicole, Did you find that with that evolution you both still went the same direction? Or did you find I know I've done the same thing? That's why I'm nodding a lot? People can't see me nodding, but I'm nodding. You know, I'm in a project at the moment where it's a similar thing, where they want color and you have to sort of work out how to make a full color palette work across different rooms that are connected, and I think that's a real challenge. But also when the client has a lot of input and you do take it a bit slower, they also sometimes have time to change their minds, which can be okay if you're also kind of on the same path as them. But I've also had clients that change their mind and kind of go, actually what about this? And you're sort of having to reign them in. Did you find that you were both kind of going the same direction?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think we did for this project. We did, and I also said every time for the colors we have like time because, like other things had to be decided before, kind of the last bit, right, yeah, but it is true when somebody is like I don't know, seeing a picture on Pinterest, saying, oh, I like this too and I'm like, no, no. So I do try to convince that the choices we make are like good choices and not like quick choices. So, yeah, there's a reason behind it. It's a reason behind it. Yes, so that is. And of course you can diverse a little bit with the use or the tones, but in the first place, I also start with two or three options in the beginning and there's a natural tendency already to one color palette. So I do like it to go in, go on in that direction, not give too much space, but a little bit space is okay, because that's also the creative part you have and it's, I like, being challenged as well.
Speaker 1:So, yes, yeah, I do like it yeah, I think you, looking at the space, it does look like a lot of thought and consideration has been taken, because I think it's I don't know, maybe it's the color tones, they all. Just there's a few colors, but everything just works together. And although I did read in the article that you presented something to the client and the husband's feedback I don't know if we can say who it is, but he said that it looked like a Katy Perry kind of experience, which I thought was really funny. What did you say? Something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had like this Jennifer Short short of fabric, which is very lovely with the lemons and we use in his study. But he says it looks like katie perry on speed and I'm it is like a compliment it would be good to work out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and which era of katie Katy Perry are we talking about these days? I don't know.
Speaker 2:And he said he loved Connor as well. So eventually he loved everything. Very much Sounds great. He was a very open person.
Speaker 1:Well, there's, I guess, a little connection, because I think it's known, isn't it, who we're talking about. So the client it's, how do you say her name?
Speaker 2:It's the Dutch, one is Curries van Houten.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes, yeah, and she's married to our Guy Pearce and so we're in Melbourne and so that's a nice little connection there, because everybody in Australia probably knows who Guy Pearce is because he's just been a well-known actor throughout the years. So that's really lovely and I guess you know what I find is it can be a little bit tricky to navigate that relationship. You want to get everybody on the same page. How do you kind of navigate that?
Speaker 2:Sometimes well, not for this house, but for other houses. We do have clients who particularly ask can you be like a mediator between the four of us? And I'm like, oh my God, that costs extra, like a shrink or something that costs extra. That costs extra, like a shrink or something that costs extra. When I try, I like very much like a harmony and balance. So, yeah, I do try to feel everybody's needs. So I want the husband to be with the process because otherwise it's not his house and it's not hers or her house. So I think that's important to both talk to them. And then I get like this feeling like, oh, he's like that kind of person, she's like this, I have to blend it in. Like, oh, he's like that kind of person, she's like this, I have to blend it in. We do some like maybe some modern sofa over here, but more like a graphic or more like print in the curtains. I try to balance. I think that's what I like the most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's and it is almost a bit of your intuition. Like you, people they use words to explain some, some things, but there's so much of it right that you just get a vibe. I mean, I don't even know how to word it other than that. But yeah, you sort of. Even maybe it's a bit of body language you pick up on or it is, I don't know yeah yeah, I think that's what makes a good designer too.
Speaker 1:Right is just picking up on those little nuances from a client, particularly the one that stays a little bit more quiet, which is potentially often, um, a husband in the situation. You need to try and pick up on his cues so that you can kind of feed into that as well, because you're exactly right, they both need to feel like it's their home and not like he's living in her house, yes, but sometimes the women have, like I don't know, more time.
Speaker 2:I don't know, not cost, but like, and that's fine of course. So no, but they then, yeah, I have more sessions with the women and I think it's very important and I do. I think I do everything intuitively. I use my head when I need to, but when I dive into the project and start designing, it's with so much intuition, it's just I don't know.
Speaker 1:So we need to be marriage counselors and psychics? Yeah, that's the first two prerequisites. Is that? Yeah, yes, so I'd really be curious to know about how you do. You know? Obviously it's that intuition. It's hard to to explain, but do you start with an artwork or is it a fabric, or is it? Is it is there a method, or is it just really kind of different for everyone?
Speaker 2:it is different for every project. Sometimes, like in a recent project, they had this really nice dark green sofa from Etra, like very nice. So that was the starting point. So I added like all shades of like light blue, icy blue and some really pinkish burgundy to pop some color. So that's sometimes how I start, like when somebody has like the favorite sofa or gives me more, like oh, I always dreamed of a kitchen in pink, I don't know, and then that's a starting point. So yeah, yeah, we all, yeah. So I think I started with something what like a client gives me like a picture or something this is really what I love, and then I just go browsing, like sometimes for days. It's sometimes a room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's easy to get lost in it, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes it takes like two days and I don't get it and I think about it day and night and then it's like it clicks Something clicks, it clicks.
Speaker 1:I relate to that so much. Yeah, I have the same experience most of the time. I mean, it's always lovely when it comes together really quickly, but sometimes it's nice to have those moments where you haven't quite nailed it and then you have that. This is it. It comes together as long as they love it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is true. Sometimes I'm so enthusiastic and they're like no, I don't like the greece. Oh my god, I so beautiful together.
Speaker 1:And then, yes, then it's like, well, yeah, so, and how do you like me so much? Yeah, go ahead. Well, I was no, I was just saying I loved how you said dark green sofa, icy blue and then a pinkish burgundy, and I'm just like trying to conjure up those images of those colors in my mind. So how, how important is color to your practice?
Speaker 2:oh, I think, um, it was not what I started like six years ago, like, oh, let's do everything in color. It's just like a natural process. I do tend to use more color and now everybody asks me about color. So it is, I think, especially maybe in Holland. Um, we have, like what I already said, like the beige and the white color, with, you know, the mid-century mix of, I think also in Australia you see it a lot, especially a little bit in the high end market. People are not using color too much because they spend like more money on the old things and on the projects and on the items. The women who I see they are like sometimes a little bit more classical sometimes and like there are a lot who are like really bold, like I see that like more customers who come to me are more bold and they try to they're more like the creatives more. So I think I have like some sort of niche.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. They seem like fun people like you know, just your projects. They're so lively, they're so joyful. I'm like, oh my God, the people that live here. I want to know, like, who are these cool people? You know? It's, yeah, really expressive yes. What about in terms of, like, different periods of your life and color, Was it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it depends on, like, if you're like young, you have no kids, maybe you have like these crazy jobs. You want your house to be like more like a sanctuary and maybe have more like lighter colors, because your house especially in the city, sometimes it's nice to have like this, like lighter house. I think when you're like expressive person yourself and your house is really busy with what I say cats, kids I think you tend to use more color and you like it more, especially when you're older. It's really interesting. Yeah, yes, I think you have like more art and you evolved your taste and you are like okay, like this is my color, this is the sofa I love and this is the way I like to live.
Speaker 2:When I see my own house, it's like chaos. It's we are like a combined family with four teenagers. It's so busy all the time, so my house is not perfect at all. It's like chaos and I like it because it's how I am. I don't want to live like a house. Yes, so that depends on every kind of period you're in like period of time.
Speaker 1:I do think you do gain more confidence, don't you, as you get older, with color and know yourself more.
Speaker 2:That is true In the beginning, you want to have everything safe and you want to have it perfect. I think when you're our age, it's like I love it.
Speaker 1:I try to choose and, like you know, like just do it, I feel like we care more about what makes us happy and less about what makes something perfect.
Speaker 2:That is so true. Yeah, that's what I love.
Speaker 1:And isn't it interesting? Yeah, it's life and it's living and it's relaxed and just enjoy. It doesn't have to be all uptight, but it's interesting. Um, when you think about you know, when you're a kid and kids rooms, they can be bright and colorful. And then, for some reason, we've gone into this sort of scared era I I don't know what you mean, but it's by our first investment sofa where we're like, oh my gosh, it's just got to be grey because that's going to go with everything. And then we go after a few years. You know what? Let's just go for it. I've always wanted to have a pink sofa or a pink kitchen, as you said. So, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? You can kind of go full circle. And why do we suppress that? Why do we suppress all of those? You know we love color as kids and then for some reason it's not serious enough or I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think it's. I think that it is. I think that's the point is, maybe you have like a just grown-up house and you want everything because the sofa is expensive and you're like, okay, it has to last for like 10 years, and of course I think about that exactly the same way. But I think when you have the color in your house, your experience, it like suits you and I think it gives you these certain vibes which I love so much. I love that too, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I liked how you were describing those colours. And also we're so limited in the words that we have to describe colour, and sometimes it's really hard to remember colour as well, like in your mind, if you try to picture that colour, but then you actually see it and you're it. You're like, oh gosh, I really thought that was more red, really flat. Yeah, it's hard to capture that, that memory of a color. So, yeah, I guess I'm curious, how do you communicate color to clients?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, we do start off with a presentation and I have like everything on the tables around me and we walk it through. I show them the colors, we check in different lights, like in the outside of our company and inside with daylight and, of course, an artificial light. Um, I think I'm a very enthusiastic person, so I don't know, I feed it, so I try to express it as much as I can yeah and um. I also think that the first feeling the customer has like sometimes it's like I had like one time this purple bedroom and she said, oh, I don't like purple, and it was like I thought it was so cool so I had to do it all over again, and that's why I also make different options.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I work out two, everything, two options for like a room, and then I can say like a little bit, we can go this way or we can go that way, and if you like this I will do for the next session, I will like deepen into it more and I then there comes like an end result. But for me I think like 3D, so I always see like pictures and not like words. So I don't know. Yeah, I try to express that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is hard, isn't it? And sometimes, you know, I remember a project a few years ago and I sort of did every room. It was like a federation home here, which means you sort of have a central hallway with rooms coming off it, so it really lends itself to different coloured rooms in each different colours in each room. So, yeah, I just get in my own little zone. I'm like this is going to be this colour and then this is going to be that colour, and the client was like, okay, okay, it wasn't. Until at the end of the project she was like, oh my gosh, I was so scared. I'm so glad that we did it, though I was like I didn't even know. You were scared because it doesn't seem like a big deal to me, sometimes like, yes, you know, when you say purple bedroom, a client's thinking oh, my god, oh. But when you actually say, well, what kind of purple? And like it sounds full on. But sometimes it's not like as much as you think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is true, and of course I use moods and I try to find the perfect picture to express what I think or what I feel. But the nicest, no, what I like the most is then is then, okay, you build your house and it's like a rebuilding and it took like a year or months and everything is white. And then the painter comes and colors like the pink really actually on the wall. They all call me. It's like, oh my god, it's too pink, it's too harsh, it's too. You say no, no, no, no, please, please, please, stay there. And then it will all come together with the furniture, with the fabrics, but they are, I think, they are like afraid, and then I, you know, convince them.
Speaker 2:And then somebody says the sister or the husband or the mother or friend or the painter like oh my god, my God, should you really do that pink? And yeah, I don't like that. I'm like just try to stand behind all the choices and it's going to be so beautiful. And when everything comes together, it's like you see the relief, like oh my God. But it's, in the end, all about trust and they have to trust me and the process and everything together, and also try to be bold. When somebody else comes into the room and says so wow, this is pink, you just say yes, I like it and it's my choice.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that and you know what. It does take a small element of bravery, doesn't it? Because most rooms are not pink, let's face it, they're white. No, that's true, yeah, that is true, yeah, and it's not for them, it's for you. And if you walk into your room and it's pink I have a pink bedroom it makes me feel so happy, it's so nice, so it does feel good and it's really fulfilling. And when you can sort of express, you know yourself in your space. And talking about pink rooms, your office oh my gosh, I've drooled all over the photos online of your slime office, the pink shelving and it's, you know, got all of the Pierre Frey books and all the beautiful fabric books in there and it looks like such an inspiring space to design In your office.
Speaker 2:You can go, of course, more loudly than other houses or the houses, but when people enter here, they all say and that's not about the color, but they express color because we have like black and white. You don't see it now, but maybe you can see it later on our Instagram. They all say it's so cozy and nice here and atmosphere, and I want to stay here and I think that's nice about also like an office, because we spent so many hours here. Why is it all white and gray? I mean, when they are here, they experience the office, they experience how it feels to use the color we have like this peach kitchen. We have everything is this lilac color? It's so lovely. Even all the men like it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yes, but they say like maybe the lilac is too bright for my house, but they do experience color here, like how it feels to be embraced by color.
Speaker 1:And isn't that funny, even that? You just said that. You know, even the men like it. It's so cultural, isn't it how we think about color. Oh, am I allowed to like pink?
Speaker 2:you know these guys that, yeah, so that and yeah, I think there are so many uh colors. Uh, they say, oh, pink is like girlish, blue is for boys. I don't know uh small rooms, don't uh need lighter colors? And I don't know Small rooms don't need lighter colors. I don't think that way. I think color is just you like it.