Design Anatomy
Welcome to Design Anatomy, where we examine the world of interiors and design. With a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled, and lived-in spaces, Bree Banfield and Lauren Li are excited to share their insights and inspiration with you.
YouTube channel launching soon.
Design Anatomy
The Evolution of Interiors Media with Lucy Feagins
Picture this: a digital platform born in 2008 transforming into a vibrant print magazine in 2023. That's the incredible journey of Lucy Feagins and The Design Files. Join us as Lucy shares the story of how The Design Files emerged as a beacon of inspiration during times of uncertainty and how it has evolved within the ever-shifting design media landscape. From unforgettable open houses to collaborative experiences at Milan Design Week, this episode reflects on the deep connections within the design community that continue to fuel her passion for creating, capturing joyful lived-in spaces and showcasing the best in local designs.
The Design Files announce the launch of their very first print magazine, Issue 01 now available. This new venture showcases diverse Australian homes, from charming mid-century abodes to cozy rented apartments, all while balancing aspiration with authenticity. Their cover story on Missy Higgins' house is a testament in commitment to inspire and uplift, so every reader feels good about their own space. This episode also navigates the complex dynamics of digital versus print publications, underscoring the enduring prestige of print media and its unique ability to enhance brand credibility in a digital-dominated era.
As The Design Files navigates the future of home magazine publishing, they emphasise authentic storytelling and the evolution of the industry. With insights from Lucy & speaking of her editor Bea Taylor and their dynamic team, she delves into the strategies and challenges of launching a print magazine as part of a multifaceted media approach. We discuss the resurgence of niche titles and the potential for new publications to fill the gaps left by traditional print media closures, all while prioritising reader-driven content. We conclude with a heartfelt acknowledgment of the Wurundjeri people, honouring their legacy and recognising the importance of creating on their unceded land.
Want the low-down on the good stuff? Sign up for the launch of Design Edit by Bree Banfield - curated pre-selected decor collections, workshops, design tours and trends. Learn more: BREE BANFIELD
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Hey designers, let's get you working on amazing projects, increase your fees and straighten out your process. Lauren Li helps interior designers at all stages of their career inside THE DESIGN SOCIETY
YouTube launching very soon subscribe for the visual experience DESIGN ANATOMY PODCAST
Welcome to Design Anatomy, the interior design podcast by friends and fellow designers. Me, lauren Lee.
Speaker 2:And me, Brie Banfield, and with some amazing guests along the way.
Speaker 1:We're here to break down everything from current trends to timeless style. And with a shared passion for joyful, colour-filled and lived-in spaces, we're really excited to share our insights and inspiration with you and if you would love to dive in a little bit deeper, I've got a course called the style studies essentials where I can help you create your own dream home and, for any designers listening, I can also help you too with your business, marketing, fees, process, all the things, and there is a link down there in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Yes, I've been part of the Design Society and it's quite fabulous. You can also find in the show notes a link to sign up to be notified when I release my pre-selected furniture collections and also some short courses on styling and trends so cool.
Speaker 1:Brie Love it. So in this conversation, Lucy Fagans reflects on the Design Files journey from its 2008 launch to the recent print magazine debut.
Speaker 2:She discusses that shift from digital to print and the evolving design media landscape and that importance of authentic niche storytelling in reaching today's audiences.
Speaker 1:And if you want to get a more visual experience of this podcast, you can jump onto YouTube and we will be sharing some imagery and at the end there is a little treat for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, some bonus content from our guests where we ask them really hard personal questions, that some of the things you may never have heard before about them.
Speaker 1:So good Shall we dive in Brie, let's get going. So I was trying to remember the first time I came across Lucy in the design files and I think it was like oh my gosh, when did the design file start? Was it 2008? Yes, 2008.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think, because I remember I'd just come back from a year or so in London and I was just like it was GFC, it was like a bit doom and gloom kind of vibe, and then I don't even know, you know, you'd never know how you go down this kind of rabbit hole. But then, following the design files and I was working in an office and it was an architectural office, it was a little bit boring, sorry. And then I would like get in early, get my coffee, and the first thing I would do is go into the design files and read my. It was like a little hit of inspiration that you needed in your day, yeah, yeah. And then I think when I first met you I think it was at one of the open houses- yeah, I think it was the one um on.
Speaker 1:Gertrude Street yeah, just off, gertrude. Street and we all were on our lunch break and we went in and it was so exciting. It was so cool like everyone was there. There was, like these, um shelves filled with all these beautiful colourful objects.
Speaker 3:That was the era of fluoro everything. It was like fluoro pink and those Miranda Scotcher artworks in the fluoro frames.
Speaker 1:It was in vibe at the time.
Speaker 2:It was such a vibe and they were always like bright, pink or bright yellow. Fluoro.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a time, yeah, it was such a good time. And then, yeah, it would be just like oh, wednesday, what's the house going to be featured Like? I was like really in it. Oh, you also joined one. Well, thank you.
Speaker 3:That was our first ever open house event, so you must have been there, you know right from very early days, so thank you for being you know a fan for all this time I'm such a fan.
Speaker 2:I feel like so. Did you say 2008? I think it must have been then when I first started interacting with the design files like as a blog.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, because that's kind of how it started. Yeah, yeah, and I won a prize. Oh, what did you win? I won. It was one of those. You know, the timber rainbows the colourful. It was one of those. You know, the timber rainbows the colorful ones, like the original ones that were made by the melbourne yes, um, craft. I can't even think of the brand I know, I wish I could remember the same brand that does the trams. Now, is it that brand?
Speaker 2:I don't know anyway I wish I could remember I won, like it was quite big and it was so exciting, and so that's the first interaction I ever had with the design files. Was winning, winning? Um yeah, the, the colorful rainbow, which is probably still somewhere, oh. I love garage packed up and then we didn't actually, and then obviously we would have known of each other for a long time, just being in the industry, but we didn't actually meet. Do you remember it was an NGV event? Yeah, and it wasn't probably until so. It would have been pre-covid, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah but like surely I met you before, that time it was this weird thing where we both went.
Speaker 2:Actually we've never met in person. Oh, it would have been. What about milan? No, that was after that, so it was before milan that we met. Yeah, milan was 2016, I think you went.
Speaker 3:I knew I should have revisited these days before I sat down here. I know this was like a few years ago.
Speaker 1:Well, I went 2017 and it was before that, and I think you mentioned, oh, you went after that when you went.
Speaker 2:So it was the year after Maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so weird isn't it.
Speaker 2:For those listening that have no idea what we're talking about, lucy did a series where she went to Milan and Dulux, I guess, sponsored that and then David Flack was sort of like I guess little stories around different people and what they do in Milan, you and what you got up to, david Flack from Flack Studio and then myself and Andrea Lucina Orr from Dulux as the trend podcasters. It was a really cool series.
Speaker 1:I loved that. It was so fun. I remember following along. I'm like Phil, we've got to go next year. I know it was sort of.
Speaker 3:I mean, milan has become even bigger in everyone's imagination.
Speaker 2:Now I feel like now more people go and it's a big hike for people to go from.
Speaker 3:Melbourne to Milan, but there are people that go every year and I feel like that was, yeah, just the start of it for me. But I mean, I don't actually go to Milan every year. I'm not good like that. I know some people you do, yeah, but to be honest, for us we've sort of come to a different place where we feel our audience are much more engaged with local design, Australian design and so even though we love it and our clients love it and a certain subset of our audience love it.
Speaker 3:I think the thing about Milan is, you know it very much is an industry. It's about the design industry and I think we've realized over time that our audience is pretty much about 80% the general public design enthusiasts and you, you know maybe renovators and you know house proud people, and it's about 20 percent design industry, so architects and designers and stylists and stuff. So that's why milan for us is a sometimes thing, but it's not. It's not something I feel, um, we need to do every year, but I do still get the fomo when I see brie there in her amazing outfits, pounding the pavement True.
Speaker 2:It is fun, but I totally get that. I think it is probably more of an interest from the design industry perspective and some consumers will obviously love it, but it's not for everyone. I think sometimes it's not as relatable, maybe just to the average consumer who's? Interested in design. Maybe that's just not necessarily what they're into, but we did want to just check in with you too, Lucy. Like what have you been up to? Tell us what's new for you.
Speaker 3:Well, since you asked, it's a pretty exciting time for us because we have just released our first print magazine Very exciting. So it's at the exciting time for us because we have just released our first print magazine. Very exciting. So it's at the printers as we speak.
Speaker 3:I wish I had a physical copy to show you, but it will be in stores on October the 12th. I'm not sure when this is released, but I think, yeah, it'll be out soon and I'll be very relieved to see the real, you know, the fruits of all our work. But, yeah, it's a big leap for us going to print.
Speaker 1:So when you say in stores, which stores? Okay, good question.
Speaker 3:So obviously we are selling it online, so you can just buy it on our website, but we also have a. Really we've had a really great response from retailers, mainly good booksellers. So, Readings is taking it the Avenue Bookstore Happy Valley. It's going to be the NGV Bookstore. So all our stockists are listed on the website. But yeah, we've got about 35 stockists. Oh wow, that's pretty good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mainly Melbourne, and then you know we'd love a few more in other other states, but we do have a few in every state. So, yeah, it's actually been very encouraging because, you know, like people look at design files and they think, oh, you know, they've got all these followers they've got.
Speaker 3:You know, they don't have to worry about promoting things, but we still, for us, this is a very new you know, venture and we definitely have been very you know know a bit nervous about how it's going to be received and obviously we want it to be a success. So it's been very validating to have some really wonderful stockers jump on board and say they'll take some copies and yeah, get it out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you've got them believing in you, I guess yeah exactly, yeah, and we don't take that for granted at all and, unlike you guys, I've never done a book, so I feel like this is a whole new world for us and having a physical thing to actually sell people is, it feels like a big leap. Like you know, everything we do is free, like we've. So I, as you mentioned, started Design Files in 2008. So it's been 16 years of free content, all online. Yeah, so it may not seem like that big a deal, but to me it feels like a big deal to say this is one thing that is a physical thing that you do actually need to buy and it's a very different proposition.
Speaker 3:So we're excited but a bit nervous. But yeah, it's been a great response so far.
Speaker 2:I cannot wait to see it. I'm super excited. I mean, I just love anything in a print media form as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I will be absolutely having a copy of that on my coffee table. Thank you, it just seems like a no-brainer. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, from your point of view, you're like, oh, here's this physical product you can buy, but for us we're like okay, great, like yeah, we'll buy that. I think I've already got mine pre-ordered. Oh, lauren, you guys are so good On YouTube. We're going to show like a cover. Yes, but can you describe what's on the cover?
Speaker 3:Yes, well, we're pretty excited because we shot Missy Higgins' house.
Speaker 1:Missy.
Speaker 3:Higgins is doing a lot of promo at the moment for her new album. Yeah, that's so cool, love her. I am a child of that era where Missy was a very big deal in my you know teenage years. So yeah, we're pretty pumped that Missy's house is on the cover and obviously we've got a big story on her place in the mag. But it's not really that sort of mag where it's like celebrity houses that was happened to be one.
Speaker 1:It just happened to be a really cool house. It looked like a natural fit for the design files. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:So you know, I think you know, in coming up with sort of the look and feel of the mag and the type of content we were going to run, we sort of wanted to have, you know, be true to our general ethos, which is very much showing the diversity of the houses we live in in Australia. So there is a bit of mid-century in there, there's a couple of really amazing architectural homes, but likewise there's apartments, there's a rented home, there's. You know, there's a real mix and we feel like that's our differentiator and that's what we feel we do. Well, and I think when I think about I want to create content about homes and design that makes you feel good when you read it, when you close the magazine, you're going to feel good about your own place.
Speaker 2:You're not going to feel like you know worse about how you live at home.
Speaker 3:It reflects you rather than you know, makes you feel like you're not good enough.
Speaker 1:That's my vibe. That's so interesting actually and I think, yeah, the diversity it's so appreciated because you can look through some other magazines which are really high-end and it's really fun to look through, but it's not exactly relatable. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's the great thing with the design files, you can find something a little relatable, it's a little bit more within reach.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, and I think you know we do need to strike a balance. Obviously there's aspiration in there too, and we do need to still be providing inspiration, but I just sort of feel like our unique place in the media landscape is to, you know, really show how we live in a sort of authentic way, and I don't want to just share multimillion dollar homes every day of the week. I feel like that isn't, it's not a true reflection of how, you know, australians live in their homes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the thing that I love about the design files is that they're lived in. The houses are lived in, yeah, and I mean that seems like obviously it's a house that they're lived in the houses are lived in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean that seems like obviously it's a house yeah but you do see a lot of houses represented in media that are just so taken out. Everything of the person is taken out for the photo shoot and I get it like that's one way to do it. Yeah, but I think you know the design file strikes that balance, like obviously it's not a mess. Yeah, no one wants to see like a messy house, but you can still see something of the people that live there, so that's really nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's so true. I guess that sort of brings us to our overall topic, which is the changing landscape in interiors, in media. It's a long topic, but I feel like that's where traditional media has sat right, when it's more, it's far more aspirational in terms of I don't know things that maybe do make you feel a little bit like could I ever get there, Whereas what you're sort of representing, or have been on the design files, is that more connected interior where you could see yourself getting there. So it's like a tighter view of being aspirational and not so, you know, lofty and you know just a dream.
Speaker 3:But I feel like that's where.
Speaker 2:So traditional print media for interiors has kind of sat in that space where it's, yeah, the people are sort of maybe taken out of it, or when they're included, it's still very stylised.
Speaker 1:I guess the thing which is sad is that Inside Out magazine that's just folded.
Speaker 2:So I think that did do that quite well. It would put people in there and real living before that, and I loved real living as well.
Speaker 1:But that's interesting because you know, with the design files starting as a digital publication, you've almost totally flipped it, because a lot of these traditional print publications start as print and then they're trying to navigate their way online, and some do it way better than others.
Speaker 2:I don't know that any of them do it super well.
Speaker 1:if I'm being honest, I think some of those websites are. I think some of the international ones maybe do it pretty well like Architectural.
Speaker 2:Digest. Is there one that you think of that does digital really well? That was traditional and has moved into that.
Speaker 3:No, well, I think overseas, yes, and I think in Australia, I must admit. I mean, I don't like to talk about other publications but I'm really sad that Inside Out's closing this month and. I must say it was a bit of a nervous, a scary one, when I heard that, because we are literally launching a magazine in the same month that they're folding, and I remember when Inside Out was my favorite mag, when Karen McCartney was at the helm, the best. I'm talking 12 or more years ago.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:And so it started out as a very different mag. But I think, if I could pinpoint where I think maybe they went a little wrong was, you know, amalgamating a lot of brands under the Homes to Love website.
Speaker 3:Yes, because what I feel and this is my personal rationale for launching a print magazine in a climate where a lot of print magazines are folding my rationale for it is you know, it's really all about your unique brand in a very cluttered media landscape. So by that I mean, you know, there are so many voices now, there's so many publications, and even influencers are also many sort of publications in their own way.
Speaker 3:So there's so much content you could be consuming in this space and I think you really need to double down on your unique proposition in this cluttered space and on your unique brand. And the problem with Homes to Love is it brought a lot of brands under one umbrella. And then it didn't really give you know, inside out its own online presence, which is a shame because I think you know that could have been built. So that's.
Speaker 2:I think the good news is and I could be wrong, because this is just all you know what I hear is that it wasn't necessarily doing that badly.
Speaker 3:As a magazine sales-wise. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And there were other reasons behind it, yeah, which I won't go into because I don't really know for sure, but that's that's what I'm hearing is that it's not necessarily that it took a big dive and had to go because it wasn't profitable it's probably more in.
Speaker 3:In situations like that, where one uh publisher owns a number of magazines, they sort of become their own competitor. So meaning they're selling advertising across multiple magazines and they probably just look at it and go well, we can just sell the same advertising to two titles and not spread it across four or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:So it does. So it's just looking at that profitability from a different way. How can we make it more profitable even though it was maybe doing okay?
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly. So I don't know, it is sad to see titles like that close and real living before it, but I feel like for us it's a very different strategy and rationale behind doing the magazine. So, you know, the bulk of our audience will always be online. That's where the big reach is for us and always will be. But we feel the magazine is going to hopefully engage our you know, our biggest fans, like you guys. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The ones that have bought it on pre-order on the first day.
Speaker 2:How many copies? How many copies did you order? Should I buy more?
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll buy more.
Speaker 3:Lauren, our number one fan. But I think for us it's about adding this extra thing. It's not going to take away from what's happening online and it's you know online will reach more people, but the magazine's about doubling down on our brand, sort of elevating design files, maybe a little bit in terms of credibility, because I think you know we have been around for 16 years, we do know our stuff. But I think if you're only online, it can be easy to I don't know be somewhat like perceived as a less valuable resource somehow.
Speaker 1:So it's about perception, isn't it funny? And also it's free, as you sort of said before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I feel like it's so fascinating that whole perception, even say, as a designer, to have your project in print still, and maybe this is changing, maybe this is a generational thing as well would still be a far bigger deal, even though that magazine may not have the same reach, for instance.
Speaker 2:Bigger deal even though that magazine may not have the same reach, for instance, or audience, as say, the design files, or an online um media where you know you're going to actually get more people see it, but it's still so much I don't know. There's still this kind of like pride in absolutely well it's.
Speaker 3:It's about, um, uh, rarity. Do you know what I mean? Like on, like that. We find that you know it's hard for us to secure an architectural project for design files before it's been in print, because all the architects want their projects to be in print first, and so I think it will enable us to maybe get some different projects you know first and not have to wait for it to be in magazines.
Speaker 3:So there is definitely that feeling, I think, of just the rarity of it, like, at the end of the day, if we're publishing 15 stories a week online, it's becoming less rare to be featured on the design files, whereas to be featured in the magazine is sort of. Yeah, it has, I guess, a perceived value that is higher than being featured in this endless stream of content that is quite prolific. Now, you know the website itself, so true, yeah.
Speaker 2:And when you're looking at, I guess, print versus online, I'm really curious. Is there a generational thing? Who's reading print as opposed to digital? Is it the same audience, like? I don't even really know. I've tried to think about this and whether or not, maybe maybe there's definitely like an older audience who prefers to have like I know people who like even still print things out because they prefer to hold it and read it.
Speaker 2:Whereas I am quite a digital person and maybe that's a bit different for my generation than the average person my age who would much prefer to have something they can hold or read with their coffee, whereas I literally nearly all my magazines. Now it's rare that I buy an actual magazine. They're all on my iPad, it's all Zinio, really yeah. Yeah, but I might be. I'm probably not the average consumer.
Speaker 3:No, I feel like, because you're in the industry, you have a different you know way of approaching, because, also, you know, don't you feel when you read a design magazine, it also feels a bit like work. Even though you enjoy it, it has a research element to it and you feel like you've got to be thorough and get all your issues on time when they come out and you can't just yeah.
Speaker 2:I have two different modes. So I'll have a mode where and I'll often do this say on the weekend, where I get out the iPad, have the coffee or the breakfast or whatever it is, or the wine, and then I just go into like enjoy it mode and I flick through and I try and like absorb it and I just as me and my point of view, and then I have a mode where I'm like literally churning through it from a work point of view. So I have two different modes when I do it.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's interesting. Well, that's funny because you reading magazines, print magazines digitally. Does that mean that the Design Files magazine is going to go digital? Well, you know what? Next step? Who knows A few?
Speaker 3:people have asked about that. It's funny. And we are doing that to start with. It won't be on Zinio, at least not initially, because we just really want people to buy it. And I don't want it to be online, but I think this is a good thing.
Speaker 2:So I would go absolutely. I would still need a copy of that.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I would enjoy it because it is a physical copy. It's just that I don't, and I subscribe to a lot of magazines, so there's that too. I just don't buy all of them.
Speaker 3:It would have to be something unique and special and kind of that's good, actually, that you're not doing a digital copy at least yet, because I think, yeah, you need people to enjoy it, as it is intended to be first I suppose, yeah, I think we just really want to get it out there and encourage people to get the print copy, and it's like there is so much Design Files, content online that you, you know there's no shortage if you want to engage with us in that way.
Speaker 1:What about the different types of stories like that you would write, compared to digital versus print?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, that's sort of one of the most exciting things, because you know, what's interesting about running an online publication is, whether you like it or not, you are always. Everything becomes quite data driven, and by that I mean we know what stories and what headlines and what images get the most clicks. And even if you're only, you know, an influencer, like you are, you know, I think you can tell when you're posting something online on Instagram what performs well and what doesn't, and then that inevitably sort of-.
Speaker 2:Starts to shape the content Exactly Detects what you post in the future.
Speaker 3:So even though we try not to be too swayed by that, at the end of the day, you know when a story comes across our desk, if a pitch comes in, we'll go well, that's not going to get any clicks, even if we love it. It's like that photo, like really boring stuff, like really dark photos, like I love that house but we'd have to reshoot it. Those photos can't run, Even though we like them. They're really moody and beautiful. That's going to get no clicks and we just know that and it's unfortunate. So I think what we're really enjoying by putting together content for the magazine is this idea of actually we can't.
Speaker 3:We will have stats on how well this issue goes but I don't know which stories in the magazine are going to be the ones people pour over versus the ones that they might just flick over more quickly, or the ones they read from word to word rather than just flicking, and I think there's something quite freeing in that. Editorially to sort of curate an issue and go. We're going to be freed up from the numbers here. We're going to fill a magazine with stories so exciting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that we're excited about and we really want people to love them. But equally we can put stories in there that are probably a bit longer a bit, you know a bit more. There's a couple of stories in there that have a little bit more substance to them that we probably wouldn't get a huge amount of clicks online, but hopefully in the magazine people can sit with them a bit longer and engage with them in a different way. So we really like the idea of having this one vehicle where we can put slightly longer form content, slightly more meaningful content alongside a lot of gorgeous homes and not feel like we're failing if it's not a high rating story. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:It's so interesting too. I feel like it's so important to have that kind of content that isn't analysed to death about what's going to sell or be clicked on, because what happens is and I've had these conversations with magazine editors where they'll have pressure from the publisher, who obviously the idea is to sell magazines Like this is the world we live in, right, we've all got to make money from what we do, even if we love what we do, and so they get this pressure where they go. You know blue doors of a thing that everybody wants.
Speaker 2:And so it sort of becomes almost self perpetuating right so if we're all posting blue doors, where's the new content? Where's the new ideas? What are we being inspired by? We can't keep just seeing the same stuff because that's what sells Like. You've got to kind of be able to be in a space where you can put other stuff out there and see what happens, right Otherwise we're kind of stuck.
Speaker 3:It's an echo chamber yeah, and I think that's where magazines uh, you know, that's why, when we engage magazines, we do have a slightly different feeling in terms of what we take away from them, because they're not, um, predetermined by an algorithm, you know it's, it's something that we're sort of um, you can sort of step into another world and really give yourself over to the editors of that magazine and take that hour of your time to be in a completely other realm. That isn't sort of, you know, data driven and algorithm driven, maybe a bit slower.
Speaker 2:I guess If you've got a print mag, you're more likely to kind of take your time, whereas I feel like when I'm swiping or scrolling, I'm probably going to go a lot faster, right, yeah, and not spend as much time on the page as you do with something in print.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's nice when you're reading a story in a magazine, you know there might be a shot of the door. And then there's another shot that looks back at the door. It's almost like you can walk your way through the house, yeah, you know you can connect the dots and sort of work. I just love doing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Whereas online it's just yeah, it is too quick, you can't really dive right into a project.
Speaker 3:Well, you can sort of on one screen whether it's your laptop or a desktop or a phone you sort of are engaging with one image at a time. Really, you don't have that experience of seeing images side by side and sort of being able to sort of curate that experience for your reader. So, yeah, I mean we'll see. This issue isn't out yet. Hopefully it does all the things that we're, you know, aiming for it to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I kind of love that you do it. So you're doing two issues a year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're just starting with two, so it'll be October and April. So it's sort of like a summer issue and a winter issue initially and we'll just gauge how it goes.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that feels manageable to us for now Is it bigger, like is it a fatter magazine, because it's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's slightly fatter than Kind of like a good chunky book? Yeah, yeah, to be honest, I don't know, because we don't have the physical copy back yet, but we've printed.
Speaker 2:we've sort of got mock-ups in our office, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's 176 pages and there are ads in it, but there are not many ads. It's very juicy in terms of the amount of content versus ads. So, yeah, it's going to be slightly chunkier than your average glossy mag. That's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going to be slightly chunkier than your average glossy mag. That's cool. So for your team, I'm curious, because you know you've got writers, you've got designers, you've got the amazing team how did they go working on a magazine?
Speaker 3:You know, what.
Speaker 3:It's a whole different thing, isn't it? Well, the great thing was, and part of the reason we sort of really felt this was the year to do it. We've been sort of talking about it on and off for a couple of years, but there are a few sort of, I guess, things that made it, that came together and made this the right time. And one is we have a really strong team and Bea Taylor, who's the managing editor of the Design Files website, is actually the editor of the magazine. So I'm sort of stepping into editor-in-chief and she's the editor, and that's because she brings. She used to work. She's from New Zealand. She came to work for us a couple of years ago and she was working in magazines in New Zealand, so she has taught us a lot.
Speaker 1:That's cool. She's just the best. She's gorgeous.
Speaker 3:I know she's lovely, so, so lucky to have Bea and, honestly, like I think I underestimated how valuable her input would be because I feel like we'd just be working out as we went along. But she really has a lot of rigor in terms of the process for editing and copy editing and the layers of editing that go on, because we finished writing this content a couple of months ago but there's been a lot of really stringent editing process.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, the team is right. The skills are all pretty much in-house, except for our amazing photographers, who are all freelance, you know we have almost all the stories are written by our in-house team, and so we have this really strong team, and the funny thing is they're all so excited about it because a lot of my team are younger, you know. Many of them are in their 20s, which is funny because you'd think these are the digital natives. These are the kids that grew up on Instagram and they should all be about online and why would they care about magazines? But the thing is, they're really excited about magazines and these are girls that sort of grew up thinking I want to work in a magazine one day.
Speaker 1:That's cute, but there aren't many left and certainly not in Melbourne.
Speaker 3:For them, they're actually very they've driven this. They've been really excited about it and that gives me hope that the new generation coming through will still get excited.
Speaker 2:It sort of makes sense, right? I mean that you've got a young generation who loves vinyl.
Speaker 2:Like it's kind of it's sort of like you know, we were talking about that sort of evolution of starting with digital and going to print.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and maybe you're kind of almost a little bit like I know that we've talked about, obviously, magazines kind of falling off, but that's because they're very much in that. I don't know, that was how they started. That's kind of what they're entrenched in. The publishers are entrenched in that and just trying to make it profitable, whereas you're coming at it from a completely different angle. And, yeah, and I feel like what you said before too, about just nailing and doubling down on the brand, is kind of key there. I think that is key and it'll be interesting to see what happens in print media in Australia, because it's really been kind of dissected now, where there's only really what Vogue and Belle House and Garden Home, beautiful, better Homes and Garden, which sort of sits in almost a slightly different space as well. We sort of have lost any of the mags that do present anything real. So you're really going to kind of just slide in there, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Well, that's sort of how I'm seeing it in terms of like looking at it from a bigger overall view that you would never have known, obviously, that you know inside out was going to disappear yeah, so you're running your own game you're not really comparing to all those other things. You're sort of going this works for us now and to me that means it's probably going to be successful just based on that and not trying to kind of I don't know outdo or like. I feel like that makes a big difference.
Speaker 3:I mean it's got it. I think we have our own niche and it doesn't feel like anyone else's niche, like I feel like I'm not competing. I mean, obviously we compete with people, but it's not. We're very different to a Bell or a Vogue Living you know, so it does feel like there's space in the market for us.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 3:But I think to your point about just the business proposition of it and the fact that other magazines are closing. You know, I think in the current landscape as a publisher, a magazine could not work, could not be profitable or successful if that was the business Like. It has to be part of a broader business and as a media platform we need to be multifaceted.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I don't think magazines work on their own, but they, you know, hopefully will work as part of a broader you know platform where we are also online. We also have a podcast, you know we're in a lot of places and the magazine is just an added layer. But it's certainly not like I wouldn't want to have eight staff and just have a magazine and be stressed if that was our only channel.
Speaker 2:Do you know what I mean? Well, it's a lot of pressure on that channel too.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:No, that makes complete sense. I think that's that view of coming at it as something that's just like adding to what you've already got.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's yeah makes so much sense and when you've got the like, I feel like we have the audience. So it's not about necessarily finding new audience, it's just about giving our existing audience another slice of design files in a new way. So I feel confident that the audience is there.
Speaker 2:I'm not sort of trying to find a new reader, it'll be so interesting, though, to see whether there is, like you know, the people picking it up in your retail space, where you're going to be selling, who aren't really aware of it in the digital space, and it becomes a whole new.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is weird Because I'm seeing the design files for the first time. Yeah, that's a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is weird, because I'm seeing the design files for the first time. Yeah, that's a thing. I think that will happen. Anyway, that's just why I've got so much to learn. I'll report back, yeah well, it will be interesting to see. Yeah we'll do another, we'll do a catch-up 12 months. Two episodes and we'll see how it goes Well.
Speaker 3:I'm in.
Speaker 1:I'm just in your feedback. So when you guys have got your copies.
Speaker 2:I'm in two issues. What did you say?
Speaker 1:I said two episodes. I didn't even catch that. I'm in podcast mode.
Speaker 2:All good, all good and I guess, um, the other thing that I find really interesting so like you know, I do a lot of shoots for brands is trying to find locations and the right places to shoot in that space. Like, how does that just kind of organically happen? Because you are the design files, you just get like a million people sending you random things like, hey, shoot my house, or do you still need to go out and proactively find the right things?
Speaker 3:No, we really have to be proactive because, yes, we do get a lot of pictures, but we really need a mix and I think nowadays I don't know Australians like we have some beautiful houses and I think we really punch above our weight in terms of the interior design and the architecture. You know residential architecture going on in Australia.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 3:But what that means is that there's a lot of players when a house is, when a new home is completed.
Speaker 2:you know as to who gets it kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so interior designers and architects. So those are the houses that are designed by architects and interior designers are the ones that everyone wants. That there's a bit more competition to run, yeah. So those are the ones we sort of have to be proactive about, and it's about relationships with those designers as well as with, you know, homeowners. So those are the ones that we have to be more proactive about. We do always get pictures coming in and those are often the more eclectic homes, because I guess often it'll be a PR person pitching it on behalf of, maybe, a business owner.
Speaker 2:Sure yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a real mix and I think yeah, but we certainly can't sit back and go oh, we're design foals. People are going to just send us their houses. I think it's more competitive than ever. There's more, you know, media outlets running houses like this now and we need to be always on the hunt.
Speaker 2:I'm always curious, like from a, I guess, from any perspective, from a print perspective or a digital side of things, in terms of a home, like you sort of touched on it a little bit that there's sort of two facets to it. There's, you want it because it's a particular design firm or architect. Is that because there's just going to be more PR around it or people? There's more interest because people want to know what was done by that particular designer, or is it more important about the person that lives there? So like, does that make a house more interesting? I think it's a bit of both For me. I'm always quite interested, particularly in the houses that are a bit more eclectic and layered and not overly styled, because I feel like I can kind of see that anywhere.
Speaker 2:I want to know about that person and what they do and how they live, and I think that that's a really that's kind of almost what makes a good story, and that you kind of actually want to read it. You know, sometimes you don't even read the story, you just kind of flip through and look at the pictures.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting question. I think for us we lean more towards the side of who lives here and we want to talk about the homeowner and their story and why that house works for them and what they were hoping to create in their space. So for us, that's our focus. And also we quite rarely run a story where homeowners are anonymous. We really like to name them, we like to take a photograph of them and so people can see who's in this house. So for us, that's our focus. But I will say there are certain like architecture firms that just always get the clicks. So you know, we certainly won't say no to a Kennedy Nolan house.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you how much who says no to?
Speaker 3:that Say along.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 3:But more and more I feel like, again, it's important to differentiate and I think there are a lot of other titles out there magazines and other titles that are covering the Kenny Nolan houses, and so it's hard to differentiate oneself if that is your bread and butter.
Speaker 3:So, I think for us we do run those beautiful homes and we always want to run those homes. But I think if that were all we were running, we would struggle to look and feel different to other magazines and other titles. So I think for us we're very conscious of finding real people and showing those people and talking to those homeowners in our stories, so we have that authentic sort of take on it.
Speaker 2:Do you think that also means that when you're talking about the homeowner more and who lives there and whatever they do, or the family? Do you think that makes it more attractive to consumer versus like the design industry as well? Like, do you wonder if the people clicking through on like the Kennedy, Nolan House sort of thing? Is it going to be more industry based?
Speaker 3:Well, funnily enough, I mean a Kennedy Nolan House will always get heaps of clicks just because it's going to be stunning house will always get heaps of clicks just because it's going to be stunning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so like it's just that it looks great. Not necessarily because people know who the architect is, it's just about how it looks.
Speaker 3:I don't think. Well, it's interesting Industry, so architects really like to look what other architects are doing, and architects whose projects are featured are always very conscious of how other architects are perceiving them.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of interesting so I mean the industry certainly will be looking at the latest project by a big local firm yeah um, but that's not our main audience as I said before, that's 20 percent of our audience so for us, we really want to appeal to the consumer or the general public, so we try not to get too sidetracked by that. But yeah, I mean, I don't think the name of the firm is really the clincher in terms of the views or the engagement with that story. I think it really is just the strength of the design and the imagery.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think that maybe Kennedy Nolan's not like the best example to use because, well, it's not like a huge, big turac mansion just with marble everywhere yeah you know like their projects really lean into the design files.
Speaker 3:Aesthetic anyway, yeah, there's a bit more, yeah, more layered, more sort of eclectic yeah and just like a like a bit.
Speaker 1:You know there's mid-century vibes and colour and everything like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, we don't really feature that many white giant houses filled with marble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like that's probably a big hard.
Speaker 1:no, yeah, others that do that and that's okay. I know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, you're right, Kennedy Nolan is, and I am the hugest fan of Kennedy Nolan.
Speaker 2:I feel like they should sponsor this podcast now.
Speaker 3:They don't need to. They are fine, they've got no shortage of work. But, yeah, I think it's really quite a mix, but we really want to tell the story of the people that live in the homes. That's our focus and we feel like that's really our unique take on homes and interiors. So that's certainly what we look for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm really curious about where interiors meter is going to go, because it feels like we're going in that circle. Right, you're launching a magazine, there's magazines closing and I feel like we're kind of on a bit of a precipice of change in terms of the traditional print media, particularly in Australia, and what's going to happen? Will there be another magazine now come up that's not necessarily you, but in that sort of more traditional, you know, owned by a publisher that's going to fill the gap for Inside Out, real Living and those style of magazines? Because for me there is like still a big, even with your magazine coming in, there's still a gap there, for you know what was those magazines? So I don't know. Do you think that there's going to be? Do you think that's kind of like like we're rarely going to see another magazine launch?
Speaker 1:now in print? I think it's possible. When I was at the supermarket the other day, I saw a relaunch of Cosmopolitan magazine, yeah, and I was looking through it and I was like I feel like I'm in a time warp right now. So maybe they're like the new generation. Do they find magazines, these kind of cool retro things? I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think fashion is quite different and I think all those sort of women's mags like Cosmo. I think they have a much broader audience, so I think they maybe make a bit more.
Speaker 2:That's true. We're in a niche, right they have bigger readership.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, the niche makes it hard, I think. Look, the pessimist in me would say as a publisher, when I see a new magazine title, for instance, um marie claire has put out a handful and I still can't figure out what their publishing cycle is, it feels completely random.
Speaker 1:I've put out maybe two or three copies of this at Home's Marie Claire magazine Marie Claire lifestyle. Yeah, I see it pop up every now and then Occasionally. Yeah, I haven't been able to make that up either.
Speaker 3:I think it's even maybe once a year I've seen it. I don't even know if I've seen two in a year, anyway, but this pessimist in me would say well, that's not driven by the audience, that's by the audience, that's driven by the advertiser. Meaning marie claire will have an opportunity to sell some space to a big um home where's uh, you know home advertised. I think one issue was full of a lot of fisher and pike lads, for instance I mean, I can't get fisher and pike lads in their glossy fashion mag.
Speaker 3:Um well, they're limited in what they can sell to a advertiser like that in a fashion mag, so they in. I feel like they just bring out a special issue at a certain time because there is an advertising demand for it, and my feeling is that's not really driven by the audience. It's actually driven by the advertisers, and I don't think that's a recipe for success. Long term is if your only focus is on what advertising dollars are out there.
Speaker 3:Let's invent something that we can sell to those advertisers. To me, that's not the recipe for a long-term, you know, building a readership.
Speaker 1:It's just not coming from like a space of authenticity where you want something to you want to express your creativity you know, this is what I mean.
Speaker 2:I feel like this is what you know. Everything I hear about the magazines that are in existence now I rarely hear. I mean the people that work there have that. They have that authenticity. They're there to produce amazing stories and they still have that passion for print. And you know journalism in a way but based around interiors.
Speaker 3:But I feel like they're absolutely being overtaken and driven by what you're talking about, and then that's starting to mold the content and then that's almost the downfall really, I mean, I don't think we're going to see another glossy mag like an Inside Out that is broad, you know, that sells a huge amount of copies, like I think what we're going to see is the rise of niche titles that will have a very strong you know, probably smaller audience, many of whom subscribe directly, which means that, you know, is a viable business model for a smaller publisher.
Speaker 3:But I don't see how Inside Out or Real Living are going to be replaced by a new title in that space, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:But here's to niche things. I kind of love that more in a way. I think that you know, if there's a select amount of great things out there, it's always better than being driven by what's going to sell. Or how do we get this advertising into something so that we can make money Like it's? I think people start to see through that. I mean, yes, we have to make money. I totally get that, but you can still do it from a place of authenticity when you're producing things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think for us. I mean we obviously have a huge number of brand partners and advertisers and we certainly wouldn't be here without them. As you said, that's that's commercially. You know what is needed to be a business and to be successful and to have longevity. But uh, I think you know it's about well for us. Anyway, you've got. We put the reader first and then we so we go what, what does our audience want? And then how do we fund that? What advertisers and partnerships do we need to make to bring that thing to market? And that's what we've done with the magazine and that's what we do with all our content. So I think any publisher has these two sort of stakeholders in everything we do. We have our readers and we have our advertisers and everyone needs to be happy at the end of the day. But the advertisers are not going to get a great result if the readers aren't there, and if the readers aren't engaged, so you know it's a balance that we play every day and you find that good fit.
Speaker 2:So if you know what the readers want, then you can kind of go. Who is also going to work really well with this, whereas I think when you do it the other way around it's harder to kind of make the two things fit together. Yeah, you're sort of like trying to retrofit it and it doesn't quite gel. I don't know, that's my two cents on never being in publishing, but like what I think of it from the outside, it's interesting, though, to hear your perspective.
Speaker 1:It's interesting to hear your perspective, because you never hear it from that inside. Yeah, that point of view.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I'm very in it. So it is really valuable to hear other sort of perspectives.
Speaker 2:And you're in the industry too for example yeah, I'm not immune to the influences of everything that I hear. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:But I mean, I think you know, with magazines, you know print magazines sort of declining a bit, I think it really it's not that they're, it's not that the market itself is declining as you said people are still passionate about this content.
Speaker 3:They still want to buy magazines. It's just that the media landscape is so fragmented now that we get this inspiration in many different ways and magazines don't hold all of that, you know. They don't own inspiration anymore. They're part of it, yeah, but we also have blogs and we also have pinterest and we also have the instagram influences we love to follow, and so, unfortunately, magazines, you know, have their probably you know 20 stake in in inspiration, but they don't own it entirely and I think, uh, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it means that, as publishers, we can't be wedded to one channel. We really need to look at it as more of a holistic landscape.
Speaker 2:That's literally so well said. I think that's exactly it, and I think that's where it's all heading. I do want to just ask one more question, because I'm curious about this and we've had a chat about this before about how we think that blogs are kind of coming back and you've got a sub stack, so we call it oh yeah, which is kind of it's basically a blog, right yeah, it's like an old school blog again and it's so fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's. It's nice to see. Yeah, a sub stack thing, a platform where the creators you can, you know, subscribe for free. But I was blown away at people that wanted to subscribe and pay to read my content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that's really nice to see anything sometimes, yeah, I just actually do. It wasn't why I was doing it.
Speaker 1:I was just wanting to put my ideas out there, yeah.
Speaker 3:But um, yeah, it's kind of nice to see blogs almost come back in a different way again yeah yeah, from a different perspective well, I think you know that speaks to sort of the, the importance of, of trusted voices, and you know, like, the value of of certain brands and certain voices in this space, and I think it's not necessarily about reaching millions of people, it's about having a small but loyal following, you know, and that can be enough If there's one publisher. I mean, it's happening a lot with food writers, where they've, you know, they're generating these great recipes and they're really forging a whole new business by having subscribers that directly subscribe to their Substack. And you know it's quite an interesting space. I don't know how, if there's a capacity people have for, like, how many Substacks can you subscribe to?
Speaker 3:It's sort of like Netflix, like how many?
Speaker 1:can you actually?
Speaker 3:I know I've got a small handful I subscribe to and I just can't read them all yeah, and I mean you sort of have a limit of like how much outlay you're willing to spend in any given month. Just on content, I think yeah, but it is encouraging that people are seeing the value in good content and voices they trust, and enough to to invest a little bit each month in those voices yeah yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:yeah, well, I reckon we've almost well, we probably haven't exhausted the topic. We could keep going, but we might want to wrap it up. Yeah, but yeah, I think that we've covered so many great things. Thank you, lucy, for your amazing input and wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I hope I said something valuable and clear.
Speaker 1:Oh no, absolutely, Well, I've got one question Do you have a favourite story from your magazine?
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so one that I'm really I mean Misty Higgins' House Aside, which was a bit of a fangirl moment.
Speaker 3:One story which is a great example of a story that probably wouldn't necessarily, you know, be one that goes nuts online but I think hopefully people will engage with in the mag is I wrote this story about an Indigenous housing collective in Northern Territory, and so it's just a really great story about people that have come together with Indigenous leaders and sort of are doing this really innovative and quite meaningful project where they really want to just design better housing for Indigenous people living out in remote communities, and so the organisation is called Wilja Janta and yeah, that's just a really it's close to my heart because I wrote that story and also I just feel like it's a story that deserves this moment in the spotlight in a way that it might not get online. So that's that's. That's a cool one, that is amazing.
Speaker 2:Actually, I think that's gonna um spark a lot of interest for people who don't know a lot about it too. Because you've got such a great audience, they're going to want to kind of like okay, what is this about? And yeah.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:Opening people's eyes to things that maybe they just wouldn't necessarily. Yeah, so they wouldn't necessarily click on it, but they're going to come across it in the magazine and maybe it'll get that kind of hold, that value for them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. So, yeah, hopefully there'll be stories like that in every issue. That can just, um, yeah, like lead people somewhere that they might not expect to, you know, go uh, but hopefully it will be, um, yeah, a way to tell some new stories in new ways, and that's yeah, that's just a good example of of that for our launch issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, perfect well, I feel like we've had the best chat and, um, it's just a good example of that for our launch issue. Yeah, perfect. Well, I feel like we've had the best chat and it's been a very big pleasure to have you here, lucy. I would like to say that we are going to have some extra content on our YouTube channel, which will be Lucy revealing some things that nobody else knows about and her life.
Speaker 1:No pressure, no pressure.
Speaker 2:So do pop over for that bonus content. We would love you to hear that as well, but for now, thank you, and thank you, lauren.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thanks for the chat. It's so fun. Thank you so much for having me. Guys. This has been a pleasure. That was such a fun chat with Lucy, like she's just so knowledgeable, she's so down to earth and it's such a cool insight to that kind of media world, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's so amazing to talk to and shared so much as well, which is fantastic, great knowledge. So good.
Speaker 1:So remember you guys. If you're listening in and you want to make your home magazine worthy and the best it can be, I can help you with my course called the Style Studies Essentials. It's been so fun to create this course. It's all the good information. And then for interior design professionals out there, come and jump into the Design Society. I'm helping you with your fees, with your process and marketing and all the things, and it's just such a great community in there and it is.
Speaker 2:I love the design society. I've had a lot of fun um conversations in there with that group. Uh and yeah, in the same show notes you'll find a link to sign up for um my up and coming release of pre-selected furniture collections. So they'll be fun and there will be some short courses also to help you style those and great trend information. So it's worth signing up for oh, good stuff, gorgeous.
Speaker 1:So if you guys wanted to jump onto youtube for that more visual experience, you can, but I think for now it's over and out. Yeah, we'll speak to you next time. We've got the utmost respect for the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. They're the OG custodians of this unceded land and its waters, where we set up shop, create and call home and come to you. From this podcast today, a big shout out to all of the amazing elders who have walked before us, those leading the way in the present and the emerging leaders who will carry the torch into the future. We're just lucky to be on this journey together.